2016 Phoenix area course conditions thread

[silentcmh]

I've heard rumblings that Foothills is coming back a little bit. I wouldn't expect it to be good, I just have heard it's better than last year (which is a very, very low bar to clear)

 

That's mildly promising, ha. I'll report back after playing.

[az2au]

Took a friend out to Wickenburg Ranch yesterday and it was in great shape as expected. Think the course is beautiful and fun but I find it just a little too easy to be considered great. I don't mind wide fairways and think they can be resistant to scoring but after playing there a couple of times I have noticed that it really doesn't matter all that much which side you hit on most holes. Since they are so wide it is extremely difficult to hit a shot so poorly that you lose a ball or even miss the fairway. The only exceptions to that are the par 5th where even from the tips you need to play a 3 wood to keep from blowing it through tthe FW and the par 4th where the same is true. Still, highly recommend it as a fun course to play.

Good review. Just curious what score did you shoot out there?

78. Zero birdies despite a few good looks. That's a 6.2 differential so about where I should be I guess. The problem is that I felt like I did nothing right and that it was the worst I had played in a few weeks. I played significantly better in my mind with dtm8562 a couple of weeks ago and shot 82 at my home club from shorter tees that I hadn't played in forever (had two other guests that don't hit the ball that far) for an 8.3 differential. It felt like I played 10 strokes better that day than I did at WR. The difference is that there is no penalty for a mediocre or even a poor shot. For example I would estimate I missed my target on my drive on 9 by 35 yards and made an easy par. At my club if I miss by 35 yards I will be lucky if I find the ball.

[Rohlio]

Took a friend out to Wickenburg Ranch yesterday and it was in great shape as expected. Think the course is beautiful and fun but I find it just a little too easy to be considered great. I don't mind wide fairways and think they can be resistant to scoring but after playing there a couple of times I have noticed that it really doesn't matter all that much which side you hit on most holes. Since they are so wide it is extremely difficult to hit a shot so poorly that you lose a ball or even miss the fairway. The only exceptions to that are the par 5th where even from the tips you need to play a 3 wood to keep from blowing it through tthe FW and the par 4th where the same is true. Still, highly recommend it as a fun course to play.

Good review. Just curious what score did you shoot out there?

78. Zero birdies despite a few good looks. That's a 6.2 differential so about where I should be I guess. The problem is that I felt like I did nothing right and that it was the worst I had played in a few weeks. I played significantly better in my mind with dtm8562 a couple of weeks ago and shot 82 at my home club from shorter tees that I hadn't played in forever (had two other guests that don't hit the ball that far) for an 8.3 differential. It felt like I played 10 strokes better that day than I did at WR. The difference is that there is no penalty for a mediocre or even a poor shot. For example I would estimate I missed my target on my drive on 9 by 35 yards and made an easy par. At my club if I miss by 35 yards I will be lucky if I find the ball.

 

Your home club places a huge premium on driving accuracy. It is almost a defining feature of the course imo.

[wcb231]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I played the round of my life at your club and it was good for even par. That's a tough, tough golf course

[Shilgy]

Took a friend out to Wickenburg Ranch yesterday and it was in great shape as expected. Think the course is beautiful and fun but I find it just a little too easy to be considered great. I don't mind wide fairways and think they can be resistant to scoring but after playing there a couple of times I have noticed that it really doesn't matter all that much which side you hit on most holes. Since they are so wide it is extremely difficult to hit a shot so poorly that you lose a ball or even miss the fairway. The only exceptions to that are the par 5th where even from the tips you need to play a 3 wood to keep from blowing it through tthe FW and the par 4th where the same is true. Still, highly recommend it as a fun course to play.

Good review. Just curious what score did you shoot out there?

78. Zero birdies despite a few good looks. That's a 6.2 differential so about where I should be I guess. The problem is that I felt like I did nothing right and that it was the worst I had played in a few weeks. I played significantly better in my mind with dtm8562 a couple of weeks ago and shot 82 at my home club from shorter tees that I hadn't played in forever (had two other guests that don't hit the ball that far) for an 8.3 differential. It felt like I played 10 strokes better that day than I did at WR. The difference is that there is no penalty for a mediocre or even a poor shot. For example I would estimate I missed my target on my drive on 9 by 35 yards and made an easy par. At my club if I miss by 35 yards I will be lucky if I find the ball.

I can tell you got my point. Some courses don't seem difficult but are difficult to score well. More of a subtle thing much like the original concept at Augusta National with minimum to no rough where the am is not penalized too much but is difficult for the better player like yourself to score well. Other courses are more in your face with difficulty. My guess would be at your home course you may not score any better than usual because the normal inclination is to drive to "normal" landing areas which negates the shorter tee advantage. Either that or you hit a lot of drivers lol but the odd angles (to you) off the tee were an issue.

[DrSchteeve]

Turning into a Wickenburg thread. Played again today, this time acceptable 4:30 pace, though there was still a lot of waiting. I can see as2au's point that it is hard to miss fairways, and that where you are in the fairway doesn't always matter. You do, however, have to hit the right shot into most greens to have any birdie chance, and often any par chance. The greens have severe undulations and high and low sides, and if you are in the wrong place you will have some very difficult putts. Not ridiculous putts - I disagree with the poster who complained that they were unfair or too difficult - but challenging. There are some greens that have too many bunkers around them, in my opinion, just because they don't always have a strategic way you can play them while avoiding the bunkers - too much target golf. So like az2au, the more I play the course, the farther down the list of best courses it goes, but for somewhat different reasons. Still a good course, but when I put it up against Southern Dunes, both Troon North courses, both We-ko-pa courses, even Verde River and Ambiente, it comes in below those for me.

[wcb231]

AZ Biltmore pretty nice right now. Will never be worth what they ask but I got a good enough rate for an afternoon time on the Adobe. Greens were actually pretty firm, kind of a pleasant surprise.

[ferrispgm]

Played Grayhawk recently.....overall in good shape but the bunkers need some new sand for sure.....not good for such a high end course.

[dtm6582]

Took a friend out to Wickenburg Ranch yesterday and it was in great shape as expected. Think the course is beautiful and fun but I find it just a little too easy to be considered great. I don't mind wide fairways and think they can be resistant to scoring but after playing there a couple of times I have noticed that it really doesn't matter all that much which side you hit on most holes. Since they are so wide it is extremely difficult to hit a shot so poorly that you lose a ball or even miss the fairway. The only exceptions to that are the par 5th where even from the tips you need to play a 3 wood to keep from blowing it through tthe FW and the par 4th where the same is true. Still, highly recommend it as a fun course to play.

Good review. Just curious what score did you shoot out there?

78. Zero birdies despite a few good looks. That's a 6.2 differential so about where I should be I guess. The problem is that I felt like I did nothing right and that it was the worst I had played in a few weeks. I played significantly better in my mind with dtm8562 a couple of weeks ago and shot 82 at my home club from shorter tees that I hadn't played in forever (had two other guests that don't hit the ball that far) for an 8.3 differential. It felt like I played 10 strokes better that day than I did at WR. The difference is that there is no penalty for a mediocre or even a poor shot. For example I would estimate I missed my target on my drive on 9 by 35 yards and made an easy par. At my club if I miss by 35 yards I will be lucky if I find the ball.

 

Sometimes I think the handicap system doesn't adequately grasp the difference in course difficulty despite the use of rating and slope. I didn't break 90 that round but played just as well as my next week round at MV where I shot an 84. From the handicap system's perspective my 84 is a much better round, even adjusting for the lower slope (ratings are close from the tees we played). But my all around play was about the same.

 

At the same time, sometimes golf is just like that. You can go out, play well, shoot a decent score and feel like it was a walk in the park. Or you can go out, shoot a decent score and struggle the entire time. I used to play a lot of 9 hole rounds in my youth and the first time I shot even par I hit 2 greens in regulation. The entire round felt like scrambling chaos but when I added the numbers up at the end it was a personal best. It sure didn't feel like it though. Not sure where I was going with that, just seemed like a relevant comment.

 

Anyway, back to the topic, played a quick 9 at Moon Valley last night after work, course still in good shape, greens maybe improved a bit from a couple weeks ago. Bunkers still a little wet but very playable. I was by myself and waited a total of 2 minutes on the 9th tee box. Total time for my 9 holes walking, 1 hour 12 minutes. Another poster here made me miss carrying my clubs so I decided to carry, I can't tell you how nostalgic the round made me. Fast, late in the day, bag on my shoulders. Shooting a 38 from the tips probably helped too but I had a great time.

 

The only thing that bothers me about the course is the condition of the rough/desert areas. I would love to hear how you guys feel about this but I like the scrub areas to either be completely natural or well groomed. There's something of a mixed some grass/some sand/some dirt/etc like it was manicured at one point and they decided to stop but didn't revert it back to the natural desert, they just left it to gradually die off but some of it still kinda gets water so it sorta grows. If that makes sense. Maybe it's just the time of year since the rough is dormant and not over-seeded.

[Shilgy]

Took a friend out to Wickenburg Ranch yesterday and it was in great shape as expected. Think the course is beautiful and fun but I find it just a little too easy to be considered great. I don't mind wide fairways and think they can be resistant to scoring but after playing there a couple of times I have noticed that it really doesn't matter all that much which side you hit on most holes. Since they are so wide it is extremely difficult to hit a shot so poorly that you lose a ball or even miss the fairway. The only exceptions to that are the par 5th where even from the tips you need to play a 3 wood to keep from blowing it through tthe FW and the par 4th where the same is true. Still, highly recommend it as a fun course to play.

Good review. Just curious what score did you shoot out there?

78. Zero birdies despite a few good looks. That's a 6.2 differential so about where I should be I guess. The problem is that I felt like I did nothing right and that it was the worst I had played in a few weeks. I played significantly better in my mind with dtm8562 a couple of weeks ago and shot 82 at my home club from shorter tees that I hadn't played in forever (had two other guests that don't hit the ball that far) for an 8.3 differential. It felt like I played 10 strokes better that day than I did at WR. The difference is that there is no penalty for a mediocre or even a poor shot. For example I would estimate I missed my target on my drive on 9 by 35 yards and made an easy par. At my club if I miss by 35 yards I will be lucky if I find the ball.

 

Sometimes I think the handicap system doesn't adequately grasp the difference in course difficulty despite the use of rating and slope. I didn't break 90 that round but played just as well as my next week round at MV where I shot an 84. From the handicap system's perspective my 84 is a much better round, even adjusting for the lower slope (ratings are close from the tees we played). But my all around play was about the same.

 

At the same time, sometimes golf is just like that. You can go out, play well, shoot a decent score and feel like it was a walk in the park. Or you can go out, shoot a decent score and struggle the entire time. I used to play a lot of 9 hole rounds in my youth and the first time I shot even par I hit 2 greens in regulation. The entire round felt like scrambling chaos but when I added the numbers up at the end it was a personal best. It sure didn't feel like it though. Not sure where I was going with that, just seemed like a relevant comment.

 

Anyway, back to the topic, played a quick 9 at Moon Valley last night after work, course still in good shape, greens maybe improved a bit from a couple weeks ago. Bunkers still a little wet but very playable. I was by myself and waited a total of 2 minutes on the 9th tee box. Total time for my 9 holes walking, 1 hour 12 minutes. Another poster here made me miss carrying my clubs so I decided to carry, I can't tell you how nostalgic the round made me. Fast, late in the day, bag on my shoulders. Shooting a 38 from the tips probably helped too but I had a great time.

 

The only thing that bothers me about the course is the condition of the rough/desert areas. I would love to hear how you guys feel about this but I like the scrub areas to either be completely natural or well groomed. There's something of a mixed some grass/some sand/some dirt/etc like it was manicured at one point and they decided to stop but didn't revert it back to the natural desert, they just left it to gradually die off but some of it still kinda gets water so it sorta grows. If that makes sense. Maybe it's just the time of year since the rough is dormant and not over-seeded.

Are you talking about desert areas at Moon Valley? They did not have any until recently, it was all grassed.

[wcb231]

GCU yesterday morning. Soggy from what I assume is over watering, but it got better as the sun came out. Greens rolled true but felt a little sticky. Hope they don't get carried away with keeping it green because there were some pretty soupy spots

[dtm6582]

Are you talking about desert areas at Moon Valley? They did not have any until recently, it was all grassed.

 

I am. I'm not sure that I would call them desert areas per say, but they are areas that the desert is taking back if that makes sense. I know they are paying a lot for water right now having to buy it from the city. I'm sure that's why those areas are being let go. To clarify, the course still has fairways (in good shape) and rough in ok shape. It's the areas between the rough and the houses. Did that use to be all grass? Seems like that might give them too much turf.

[Rohlio]

Are you talking about desert areas at Moon Valley? They did not have any until recently, it was all grassed.

 

I am. I'm not sure that I would call them desert areas per say, but they are areas that the desert is taking back if that makes sense. I know they are paying a lot for water right now having to buy it from the city. I'm sure that's why those areas are being let go. To clarify, the course still has fairways (in good shape) and rough in ok shape. It's the areas between the rough and the houses. Did that use to be all grass? Seems like that might give them too much turf.

 

That is due to what happened during the water rights fiasco...they lost huge sections of what used to be wall to wall turf. The course is coming back, but it is taking time.

[One_Putt_Blunder]

Camelback Padre today course in solid shape tee to green. Saw Larry Fitzgerald out there too.

[Shilgy]

Are you talking about desert areas at Moon Valley? They did not have any until recently, it was all grassed.

 

I am. I'm not sure that I would call them desert areas per say, but they are areas that the desert is taking back if that makes sense. I know they are paying a lot for water right now having to buy it from the city. I'm sure that's why those areas are being let go. To clarify, the course still has fairways (in good shape) and rough in ok shape. It's the areas between the rough and the houses. Did that use to be all grass? Seems like that might give them too much turf.

 

That is due to what happened during the water rights fiasco...they lost huge sections of what used to be wall to wall turf. The course is coming back, but it is taking time.

Not sure they can eve get it back to walk to wall turf. I think they lost that right once they removed areas of grass to save on the water bill. They were grandfathered in against the 90 acre of grass rule before they started to remove turf as I recall.

[dtm6582]

Are you talking about desert areas at Moon Valley? They did not have any until recently, it was all grassed.

 

I am. I'm not sure that I would call them desert areas per say, but they are areas that the desert is taking back if that makes sense. I know they are paying a lot for water right now having to buy it from the city. I'm sure that's why those areas are being let go. To clarify, the course still has fairways (in good shape) and rough in ok shape. It's the areas between the rough and the houses. Did that use to be all grass? Seems like that might give them too much turf.

 

That is due to what happened during the water rights fiasco...they lost huge sections of what used to be wall to wall turf. The course is coming back, but it is taking time.

Not sure they can eve get it back to walk to wall turf. I think they lost that right once they removed areas of grass to save on the water bill. They were grandfathered in against the 90 acre of grass rule before they started to remove turf as I recall.

 

That makes sense. I know right now they're buying water from the city. They have authorization to begin construction to tap into the canal system for water. Supposedly that will cut their water cost to 1/3 of what it is now. Still, there's no way all of that can be grassed with them staying under the 90 acres. If it is a permanent change though, you would think they would have built out those areas to look a little more natural. Maybe that's harder and more expensive than what I'm envisioning but it doesn't seem like it would be.

[jzona]

GCU yesterday...greens are green now and rolling true and hold good shots. Overall in very good shape tee to green. Pace was good, teed off at 8 and finished just under 4hrs.

[BirdieRoll]

Played Camelback Ambiente for the first time last week. Great renovation. Totally new vs. the previous Indian Bend course. Thought the course was in very good condition, greens were pretty good. Excellent value for $69.

[Priceyd]

Played wigwam gold today just about finished before darkness, would of been about 5 hour round of couple of groups dropped out late on as it got dark,

 

Course was nice conditions, but greens felt hard didn't hold balls well plus find the greens there really hard anyway, what do you guys think of the course??

[One_Putt_Blunder]

I'm a big fan of Wigwam Gold they just completed renovation at end of summer. I'm not 100% if they re did greens. I know it was mainly a bunker/green complex reno. The greens there have typically been on firm side. Really solid RTJ SR design. I keep hearing it was modeled after firestone south but i don't see that, gold to me is much more interesting than Firestone south.

[One_Putt_Blunder]

Since a lot of you guys got to try kingmade at the last outing here's your chance to win some

 

I just entered the Kingmade Jerky Golf Package Free Giveaway. Over $150 Value! You can too right here http://bit.ly/1KyHJnH

[Priceyd]

I'm a big fan of Wigwam Gold they just completed renovation at end of summer. I'm not 100% if they re did greens. I know it was mainly a bunker/green complex reno. The greens there have typically been on firm side. Really solid RTJ SR design. I keep hearing it was modeled after firestone south but i don't see that, gold to me is much more interesting than Firestone south.

 

Yeah I like the course very different with a lot of trees and tricky greens, unfortunately I'm about 15 handicap so missing the greens left some really toug short games shots but had great day try and play it couple of times a year

[Sweet]

Since a lot of you guys got to try kingmade at the last outing here's your chance to win some

 

I just entered the Kingmade Jerky Golf Package Free Giveaway. Over $150 Value! You can too right here http://bit.ly/1KyHJnH

 

funny...i thought this was a "conditions only" page

[puttnforthe8]

Legacy is in brilliant shape except for the bunkers....talk about no sand - it was just compressed dirt. Greens rolled fast and true.

 

Did have one really upsetting occurrence: We called into for the tee time and when we get there, they tell us it is $110. I laughed at the guy, walked outside and booked online, on their own site, for half the price.

[Double K]

 

Did have one really upsetting occurrence: We called into for the tee time and when we get there, they tell us it is $110. I laughed at the guy, walked outside and booked online, on their own site, for half the price.

 

Pocketing the difference in the proshop?

 

I'm heading down on Thursday. Green Fees seem a lot higher than in years past. Playing Aguila, Papago and GCU so far. Hoping to get to Longbow because of the closeness, but they are asking for $100+ for an afternoon tee time. Twilight isn't until 2:30pm, will you finish before dark?

[wcb231]

If it's a 4 hour round you'll be ok. Anything past that is close.

[Chomper]

Played TS South over the weekend. I do enjoy the course, if only for the shade and water, not seen on TS North.

Greens were pretty firm, did not seem to create any ball marks on approach shots. Bunkers were good, some wet spots in the fairway, but nothing unexpected.

Here is the best part - tee'd off at 9 AM Sunday morning, finished in just over 4 hours, including waiting on every shot on the back 9!

[Double K]

Aguila on Friday!!!

[jzona]

Aguila on Friday!!!

Olson12 and i are teeing off at 6:30 tomorrow @ Aquila if you want to join us? the tee time is for 2 i believe so you would need to call and see if the spots are still open

[Double K]

Aguila was simply awesome today. Bunkers are great (was in a few too many), greens were fast and pure, yet still was able to spin the ball nicely. Course was wet in all the usual places. Shot 38 on the front with a double and don't want to talk about the back.

 

We were off at 10:30 and were done in 5 hours, a bit of a wait on most tees. It was smoking hot which made waiting a bit more annoying

 

Next up is Papago on Monday.