The 15 yard quest.

[birly-shirly]

I was not being negitave towards you my friend, just tring to add some light humor. I guess it came across wrong. Good luck with your plan. Sorry to have ruffed your feathers. Mike

 

Don't worry. No offence taken, and no feathers were ruffled. I enjoyed your rant, in large part agreed with it, and just thought I would add my tuppenthworth.

 

Distance is great - but I agree that trying to buy it off the shelf is probably the worst way to go about pursuing it. However, if you learn to swing your existing driver faster, then you get to double-dip. Your drives go further, and so do your irons. I reckon that if you can add 10-15 yards through the bag and still stay out of trouble, then you ought to be able to shave a couple of shots from your average score. Of course, that's an IF that I'll only get to answer for myself in a few months.

 

I do quibble a bit with the oft-quoted assumption that improving putting or the wedge game is the easier way to lower your scores. Some people have strengths in those parts of the game, but I find I need to work extra hard for a halfway decent wedge game and I need a decent green to fruitfully practice my putting. Especially in the winter, one of the easiest things for me to work on is a few dozen balls at the driving range.

 

 

 

A lot of distance is about swinging faster. If you're setting up your stall to do this, buy a cheap swing-speed doo-da and do whatever you need to do to increase that clubhead speed. To do that, get a lighter driver. Will feel horrible, but your speed will increase.

 

 

That is basically what I'm doing. Had a radar gizmo for ages, but putting it to work systematically this winter. For added science, I am balancing out my practice with both a lightweight driver that I can swing a little faster AND a heavy steel shafted driver that requires a bit more work.

[BIG STU]

A much simpler solution would be to build a training club using a cut down shaft with a 4 pound weight on the end,grip as normal and go through the swing stages in very slow motion which will have the effect of building both muscle memory and hand and wrist strength and can be used indoors.

If you have a garage the old Henry Cotton tyre drill is also very good for developing hand action.

Actually I have several different weight and length training clubs I built for myself. Some guys I know do the tire drill they use an old golf cart tire with no rim in it of course.

[birly-shirly]

jonnygrouville is dead right....there are many who don't have a clue about distance or yardages and all think they hit it further than they do.It's not so long ago that playing in a regular weekday game I 'smoked'a drive on a 400 yard par 4,one of the guys came over and said 'That must be a 300 yard drive!',giving him my best Ben Hogan impression I asked him what the stake was on the edge of the fairway just about level with my ball,prompt answer 'The 150 yard marker',it dawned on him then what yardages were involved.

Now in my mid 60's I'm not bothered about trying to reach par 5's in two,quite happy to play short and in the fairway for my second and leave a good length and line for a pitch into the green which is how we all used to play par 5 holes all those years ago,three shots and two putts for par.

 

I sometime wonder whether its the numbers people don't understand, or the concept of "average" and variation. I would guess that someone who's "good" drives truly average around 240 - 250 yards will hit a few drives a year where conditions conspire to give them an extra 50 yards. Too many people pace off those downwind drives on a baked fairway and determine their driving distance accordingly. But at least as often, that person is going to struggle to make a 200 yard carry.

[Eidolon]

You really don't need to wonder. This is exactly what goes on in their heads. Kind like thinking..."I once asked a beautiful woman directions to the restroom and she was kind enough to tell me where it was located. Therefore ALL beautiful women want to talk to ME." Same logic! :)

[jonnygrouville]

And most doubles come from bad tee shots, either out of play or dubbed off the tee. Which usually come from swinging too hard. Which is encouraged by 46 inch, 460cc featherweight drivers.

 

Which is why modern equipment has not only done nothing to improve golfers games, but the failed promises have actually driven people from the game.

 

 

Amen to that. Testify, brother! Testify!

[scomac2002]

And most doubles come from bad tee shots, either out of play or dubbed off the tee. Which usually come from swinging too hard. Which is encouraged by 46 inch, 460cc featherweight drivers.

 

Which is why modern equipment has not only done nothing to improve golfers games, but the failed promises have actually driven people from the game.

 

 

Amen to that. Testify, brother! Testify!

 

Shallowface is on a roll today!

 

:clapping:

[birly-shirly]

And most doubles come from bad tee shots, either out of play or dubbed off the tee. Which usually come from swinging too hard. Which is encouraged by 46 inch, 460cc featherweight drivers.

 

Which is why modern equipment has not only done nothing to improve golfers games, but the failed promises have actually driven people from the game.

 

 

Amen to that. Testify, brother! Testify!

 

That's one of the things I like about playing at least half my golf with vintage gear. I do have one of those aforementioned 46", lightweight, 460cc drivers - but when you're coming directly from a driver that's at least 3 inches shorter, heavier and more punishing, the modern driver feels to me like a reward all in itself. I don't feel any need to press, because I already know that any decent swing is likely to send the ball farther than my best "regular" effort. I can just bunt the ball in play and already the course is playing shorter!

[Splitter]

 

I want *that* shot.... But longer...

 

 

Need to crank it up a notch when it comes to bragging rites??

Just times the distance by three…wedges go 300 and drives 700.….…feet.

 

I'm not convinced it's bragging rights... I think it's much deeper in the human DNA than that... But it might just be that simple... There's prolly a few books out there about it...

[Sean2]

The never ending quest for more yardage is a fools errand for most golfers, especially as we get older. It's easily solved however.

 

Simply move up a tee box or two.

[stevemcgee99]

Too many these days want to start at the tips, and the inevitable failure drives them from the game.

They drive me from the game, too, at least during daylight hours. I play at dawn and dusk on weekdays.

 

Loud foursomes gawfing at each others bombed drives followed by moans for watching the balls go left or right out of bounds are no fun to share the course with. Neither is standing around waiting for these guys to take up time dealing with the consequences of playing from the tips. Where do you think 5 hour games come from?

[John L.]

All Driver manufacturers claim more distance................every pigging year!! I should be striping it 350yds with all their claims by now.

 

 

At my range I cant reach the back green, just landing approx 20yds short with old driver. Got a new Titleist 915 fitted and back to the range, guess what...........20yds short of the back green.

 

I went out and bought an old 910 head, stuck on the 915 shaft and hey, guess what, same distance.

 

I still chase the big drives, who doesn't! but will get it with technique and some body strenghtening even though I'm very old now lol

 

Calculating the "Top Flite" claims for added distance over my 37 years in the game. A well struck driver should easily reach Louisville Kentucky ...................from Virginia Beach.

[John L.]

I was not being negitave towards you my friend, just tring to add some light humor. I guess it came across wrong. Good luck with your plan. Sorry to have ruffed your feathers. Mike

 

I come across as harsh sometimes. The problem with forums is that people may not pick up on the "jest" intended from a post unless it is worded with proper descriptive(s). For that, I am very guilty myself!

[John L.]

May I throw in a personal theory on ....adding distance?

 

I truly believe that any healthy, and average player will add (10-15 yards) by putting in the work and time required to groove his/her swing. It doesn't have to be a perfect swing, but one that can be repeated over and over again. A grooved swing will add confidence. Confidence eliminates most of the physical and mental stressors that accumulate during the address, take away, and the down swing. There is no way in H#@% for any golfer to maximize distance if they are swinging scared.

 

But, when I preach this theory to my golf friends, and other new players, their eyes glaze over like a "krispy Kreme" and they usually end running over to "Golf World" to buy the ( latest - greatest - longest- silver shafted)............ watchamacallit!

 

:russian_roulette:

[nitram]

I ain't scared...

[oldschoolrocker]

I'll take two of the Krispy Kremes and a cup of pipin hot Joe please.

[W C Franco]

The bottom line is that farting around with three drivers is not the way forward if you are serious about hitting the ball better and therefore further.

That is achieved by a lot of hard work on grooving the swing as noted by John L. and by developing strength in the hands,wrists and forearms which will increase clubhead speed and produce more distance.

No rocket science,no airy fairy theories just plain hard work and if there's any doubt then look at what the best ballstrikers in golf achieved and what they did to achieve it,Cotton,Hogan,Trevino,Faldo.

[Nard_S]

Improved swing mechanics is possible way to 15 yards extra.

 

Improved swing mechanics plus a workout regimen in the gym is a guaranteed 15 yards extra.

[NRJyzr]

The real problem in this discussion is the collective golfer ego. The average golfer buys clubs based on how far they hit them. And, it need only be an occasional shot, instead of an overall average. This is the impetus behind the 46", super light, driver, that can be used once every other month, or even once per season, to produce a relatively herculean effort off the tee, to be remembered and immortalized.

 

It's the same with irons. John Q. Average buys his iron set based on how far he can hit that 7 iron. He doesn't care that there's now a huge gap between his SW and his PW, it's "OMG look at how far I hit the ball with this club!!!" There's a reason the King Cobra irons were so popular. ;)

 

Even the relatively equipment educated folks at golf forums aren't immune. There are a considerable number of posts from folks who steer clear of "older" equipment, because they don't care for their shots traveling a lesser distance, even if that's only due to the loft differences.

 

I realize this is little more than preaching to the choir, in these parts. LOL

[birly-shirly]

The bottom line is that farting around with three drivers is not the way forward if you are serious about hitting the ball better and therefore further.

That is achieved by a lot of hard work on grooving the swing as noted by John L. and by developing strength in the hands,wrists and forearms which will increase clubhead speed and produce more distance.

No rocket science,no airy fairy theories just plain hard work and if there's any doubt then look at what the best ballstrikers in golf achieved and what they did to achieve it,Cotton,Hogan,Trevino,Faldo.

 

chrissonabike - you do realise that those airy fairy theories, and farting around, are well-known, conventional training practices across a range of sports in which the application of strength at speed is key? And that they've been trialled and written up as research papers?

 

Your recommendation was a 4lb training club. That is going to build clubspeed like running through the deep end of your local swimming pool is going to sharpen your 60 yard sprint. If you want speed, you need a training load that allows you to move at speed. That's the basic principle of training specificity. Anything else is just general weightlifting. Not saying it's not good for you, but the same would be true of press-ups.

 

Ask Faldo. He went through a regime of heavy weights and earned himself some tendinitis, a slump in form, and no additional yardage.

[W C Franco]

The suggestion of a 4lb club was a starting point.The weight needs to suit the individual so that proper function of the grip is maintained while strengthening the muscles involved,alternatives are the squash ball for fingers,Indian clubs or a home made apparatus with a weight on the end of a cord that's fixed in the middle of a stick,the weight is then raised and lowered by revolving the stick using wrists and fingers.

Or as Hogan suggested,10,000 golf balls.

Faldo at his best was as long as any of his contemporaries the fact that weights did not increase his length suggests he had already reached his maximum potential rather than such training was of no benefit.

Who wrote the research papers and what is their golfing portfolio,experience and achievements in the game?

Also consider that this is not a discussion about training across a range of sports but one specific question which is how to hit a golf ball further,all the greatest ballstrikers in golf have written on the subject and they all share the same conclusion;

It is clubhead speed and that speed is generated by the hands and arms.

That's it.

Other things may help but if your hands don't work forget it.

[birly-shirly]

The suggestion of a 4lb club was a starting point.The weight needs to suit the individual so that proper function of the grip is maintained while strengthening the muscles involved,alternatives are the squash ball for fingers,Indian clubs or a home made apparatus with a weight on the end of a cord that's fixed in the middle of a stick,the weight is then raised and lowered by revolving the stick using wrists and fingers.

 

I'm not against strengthening exercises, and those suggestions may be good ones for building up strength. All I'm suggesting, and you're free to take this or leave it, is that it's perfectly possible to build up muscular strength without adding speed. The drills that I posted about are primarily about enabling, encouraging and training your whole body to move a golf club faster than you've been used to. Runners run downhill and cyclists train in the slipstream of a motorscooter for much the same reason.

 

 

Faldo at his best was as long as any of his contemporaries the fact that weights did not increase his length suggests he had already reached his maximum potential rather than such training was of no benefit.

 

I would count Seve, Lyle, Norman, Fred Couples, Woosnam and Langer as Faldo's most obvious contemporaries and, with the possible exception of Langer who I don't know enough about, I'm pretty confident in saying that ALL of them hit the ball further than Faldo. And the weight training clearly wasn't of any benefit to Faldo as regards his objective of increasing driving distance. If it gave him greater stamina, resilience against injury or overuse, or control out of the rough then great.

 

Who wrote the research papers and what is their golfing portfolio,experience and achievements in the game?

 

If you're interested, make a start with Coop DeRenne, and follow the references from his papers. The DeRenne papers are not golf-specific - but relate to baseball and throwing sports generally. But really, any decent book on physical training will talk about the importance of specificity of training, and the idea that strength underpins and supports the development of power and speed, but that power and speed still need to be trained in addition to strength.

 

Also consider that this is not a discussion about training across a range of sports but one specific question which is how to hit a golf ball further,all the greatest ballstrikers in golf have written on the subject and they all share the same conclusion;

It is clubhead speed and that speed is generated by the hands and arms.

That's it.

 

You can only conclude that if you cherry-pick your "greatest ballstrikers". Cotton clearly felt that the hands and arms were dominant. But you'll find Nicklaus, Trevino, Jones, and Hogan (to take just 4 examples) all saying something very different in their respective writings.

 

Really though, I'm not asking you to do anything or change anything. I posted in this thread about what I'm actually doing this winter. I took a baseline of averaging 100mph with a particular driver and a particular radar device before I started, and when I've completed a few more weeks of training I'll report any improvement, or lack of it. I'm happy to discuss whatever detail of what I'm doing and I won't hide the results.

 

If you've personally followed a different programme and seen some benefit, then I'm sure anyone interested in this thread would be interested in hearing about your experiences.

[stevemcgee99]

I think golfers whose drives are under 200 yards (like me) should worry about increasing distance. 15 yards to us is a much bigger impact than it would be to someone averaging 225 yards.

 

And as an adult male I'm convinced that only technique needs to improve to get past 200 yards. I don't need to put the Millenium Falcon at the end of a fishing rod to hit further.

[oldschoolrocker]

As my dear old momma used to say,

"Son, there are many ways to skin a cat."

 

I believe we all can agree on the point that, although there are those who will dispute the point, that the gokf swing IS an athletic movement, in that it requires a degree of strength, speed, flexibility, balance, and hand-eye coordination.

 

Therefore I believe the path to more distance can be achieved in different ways by different golfers. If one buys into the notion that the club itself us a tool and for the user to gain the maximum amount of mechanical advantage while using the tool that the tool has to be used as it was constructed, contacting the ball on the sweet spot in the correct manner that transforms maximum energy to the sphere to launch it on the angle needed for the particular shot being played.

If one is lacking in one area of the athletic equation, strength, flexibility, speed, ECT., which results in an off center, or weak strike, maximum benefit of the tool cannot be achieved.

For myself, flexibility is the major issue, and now to some degree hand-eye coordination due to my diminishing eyesight.

Work on your weakest areas to increase the efficiency of your ballstriking and the result will be better usage of the tool and more distance.