Is there an accepted definition of "Vintage Golf Club" or does everyone apply their own standards?

[bk52]

I am not versed in the subject of vintage golf clubs. Can someone steer me toward an accepted definition? Do irons have to pre-date the introduction of Ping's? Do drivers/fairway woods have to have wooden heads? No graphite?

 

Just curious.

[birly-shirly]

I think the answer really depends on why you're asking and the context in which the term is used.

 

As regards this part of the forum, I think people's interests run pretty broad - although there's probably a little more love for products that date back at least to the steel shafts and persimmon era. But there are threads for 975s and Big Berthas and even VAS irons.

[Fellaheen51]

That's a topic that has been pondered and discussed often around here With no absolutes regarding definitions. Vintage and Classic are terms that may be used interchangeably or they can be used separately to describe clubs. Get's somewhat commingled at times. Those of us that reside in the Classic forum generally go with a "whatever you want it to mean" frame of mind. That includes the breadth of clubs from 100 year old hickories to 10 year old graphite shafted titanium drivers. Occasionally, someone arrives that wants to affix a more rigid definition to things, but we generally don't subscribe to that theory.

 

There are those amongst us that play hickory a majority of the time. Then others that they play mostly steel shafted only clubs. Lastly, many here play a mashup of new(er) and older in our kits, the aptly named "bag for all seasons". Often newer metals with vintage/classic irons and putters.

 

May wish to poke around in the "No new acquisitions?" thread to discover what folks are acquiring and playing. By asking, do you have clubs of a more specific nature you're curious about?

 

If this is your first visit to this corner of the wrx, welcome.

[bk52]

I am not a collector but every once in a while I peruse the "Classic/Vintage" postings. As described, the breadth of clubs covered under the vintage label seem to include everything except the M-1. One's view of vintage is most likely colored by one's age and the type of clubs available when first discovering the game.

[xgolfx]

My opinion is that wood is in vintage drivers and fairway woods. Irons are a different story. Vintage irons were shorter ( 38 or 39 inch 2 iron). The lofts were weaker and less offset. It extends into today's game. Tiger's 9 iron is the loft of Rory's pitching wedge. 1,2,3, and 4 irons have been replaced by hybrids. On the tour, Adam Scott, Tiger , and a few others are a rarity because they have no hybrids in the bag. Putter covers are a gimmick. Hogan ,Locke, Stockton, Crenshaw, Nelson,Nicklaus, Trevino, and Snead rolled the ball pretty well on inferior surfaces.

 

CHARLEY PENNA

[minimal45]

To me fella 51 hit on the head. I consider classic and vintage to be any previously released equipment that is no longer in production. I have a mix of newer and oldish stuff that I would call classic because it is not considered new technology.

[deetsal]

Here's a quick take.

 

Classic, 1960 - 1980 (or just before graphite and metal heads).

 

Vintage, 1940 - 1960, post pyratone shaft.

 

Antique, 1925 - 1940, post hickory,

 

Hickory antique, 100 BC to 1930 (or so), wood shaft.

 

Over laps occur and not hard dates.

[BIG STU]

Here's a quick take.

 

Classic, 1960 - 1980 (or just before graphite and metal heads).

 

Vintage, 1940 - 1960, post pyratone shaft.

 

Antique, 1925 - 1940, post hickory,

 

Hickory antique, 100 BC�� to 1930 (or so), wood shaft.

 

Over laps occur and not hard dates.

Ok I can agree with that. Actually in today's world in the general population anything older than 6 months is considered antique and outdated

[Kirasdad]

Obviously this is an individual thing. Different points of view with vintage/classic eras widely defined. For me, I rarely use the term vintage because it seems vague to me. I play golf in three different varieties. 1. Hickory, easily defined as a club with a hickory shaft manufactured (or made) prior to 1936, or reproductions of same, as per SoHG rules. 2. Classic, (this is the slippery one). For me, classic is anything prior to the PIng Eye design, roughly prior to 1980. When I play classic, it's persimmon/laminated woods, blade irons, and a 8802 or bullseye or similar era putter only. Since Eye 2s were used on tour as recently as a few years ago, they just don't seem classic to me. As a matter of fact I use the advent of Karsten Solheim's designs as the beginning of the modern golf. 3. Modern, this is a bag that has a 460cc driver in it, a huge mallet putter with more aim lines than an architectural drawing, irons with a cavity, and a hybrid or four, and five wedges. By my math, that leaves room for ...uh, two irons, and a fairway wood.That's how goofy things are getting.

My modern bag almost always has an anachronism in it, most often my 36 year old Macgregor sand wedge.

 

A nitpicker might look at my definition, and say "hey, Julius Boros was bagging a PING Anser in 1966!" Which he was, but the other 99.9% of the putters out there looked very much like the putters I previously mentioned.

 

So, there is my 2 cents on this.

 

Not that anyone really gives a s**t. I am not sure I even do, and I spent 20 minutes writing it.

 

 

[yaquigrande]

Here's a quick take.

 

Classic, 1960 - 1980 (or just before graphite and metal heads).

 

Vintage, 1940 - 1960, post pyratone shaft.

 

Antique, 1925 - 1940, post hickory,

 

Hickory antique, 100 BC�� to 1930 (or so), wood shaft.

 

Over laps occur and not hard dates.

Thanks for posting that, very helpful!

[ScooterMcTavish]

LOL, K-D. I had seen this thread, and thought of chiming in, then decided not to. Well, now I've decided to.

 

I once saw a great answer to the question "When was the golden age of Hockey". The best answer (horribly mangled by my memory) :

 

"The golden age of hockey was whatever age of hockey was being played when you were between 8 and 14 years old."

 

How true - those years where we still think sports heroes are mythical Gods, when our brains are learning and processing information at a rate I envy today, and when we haven't been cursed with the world-weary cynicism we seem to acquire as we age. When we are young, we are enthralled with possibility (I can be a fireman! I can be President!), and as we age, we realize just how little is actually possible.

 

So I contend that "Vintage Golf Club" relates to what was in use when the individual was between 8 and 14 years old, with the caveat that they must be at least 40 to have any of their "8-14" clubs be considered vintage. Everything else is just an antique, albeit likely a very functional one. As per the Interwebs (bold underlined italic is mine):

 

adjective: vintage

• 
  1. of, relating to, or denoting wine of high quality.
  
  synonyms: high-quality,
  quality
  ,
  choice
  ,
  select
  ,
  prime
  ,
  superior
  ,
  best
  
  
   
  
  
   
  
  
  "vintage French wine"
  
  
  • denoting something of high quality, especially something from the past or characteristic of the best period of a person's work.
     
    
    "a vintage Sherlock Holmes adventure"
    
    

I think the language is pretty clear, and "the past" is a varied size place, all depending on how much mileage our individual models have on them. So to me, a 1981 set of Eye2s (which I own and enjoy playing) is certainly vintage - issued over 3/4 of my life ago when I was 11. That's vintage for me. For someone with a few more years, I can understand why they would not consider a set of clubs like the Eye2s as vintage, where something like a set of Buttonbacks is.

 

And as a general rule of thumb, I think we all associate vintage with what is often a happier time in our lives. Maybe not always better from a material perspective, but simpler, when we all had less responsibility, where a ride down to the local park with a 7i and 3 balls was an afternoon's worth of entertainment, when the pace of life was less rushed, and the world was less confusing. When I think of "vintage", I have these heady memories of a young Scooter, ripe with nostalgia for the time I grew up in. And the clubs that existed in this period of my life? Well, they're vintage too.

[scomac2002]

Well put Scooter! Perhaps that is why my version of vintage was what was in vogue when I first decided that I would give the game a try which corresponded with the beginning of the modern era of cavity back irons and metal woods. The fact that I was 20 years past that magical period of youthful idealism is a moot point at least in my eyes.

[birly-shirly]

Scooter's formula works for me - gives me the first half of the 80s to play with and neatly covers Apex IIs, PCs, Muirfields and some of my favourite Mizunos, perhaps at the expense of my redlines, Fg49s and late Fluid Feels which are thereby relegated to "modern".

[BIG STU]

Scooter's version works for me too. Birly you reminded me of something-- I have those beautiful rechromed Muirfields sitting in the shop. I thought the shafts were too stiff but my buddy the Miura dealer thinks not he swears it is the grips because they are huge. He swears the shafts are regular but the grips are too heavy and I can not feel the heads. I did pull one grip last week and it was a half rotted old crown cord with 6 wraps of heavy tape under them. We are going to put them on his machine tomorrow and see what they frequency check at

[jonnygrouville]

All relative, yes. Much like a year old mobile 'phone, you'd get funny looks using a two year old driver, let alone something from before we'd walked on the Moon. Think pitching up on the first tee with your 'phone in one hand and the battery pack slung over your other shoulder...

 

[BIG STU]

All relative, yes. Much like a year old mobile 'phone, you'd get funny looks using a two year old driver, let alone something from before we'd walked on the Moon. Think pitching up on the first tee with your 'phone in one hand and the battery pack slung over your other shoulder...

LOL We go up on the range at the tourist hacker trap up the road. I have two older friends of mine that still hit vintage stuff. One is my insurance agent. usually in the fall when it is cool we drag out the vintage stuff and get 3 big buckets of balls and bang away. Now we do not hit range rocks with the persimmons though. For that we sorta gang together and go through our "finds" and hit older soft balls like Precepts and such out there. But we get some curious looks from the tourist hacks and one kid asked his Dad "when did they START making woods out of real wood?" One of our guys named Frankie is in his mid 70s has a great swing and still hits MP-33s Back in the day he was a NY state Mid Am champion. He does not hit it real far anymore but can still work those irons and call the shot. Those tourist hacks do not know what to think because we show up with at least 6 bags of vintage clubs all in vintage type bags of course. Sometimes we go up on the Par 3 course and play with vintage wedges and Balata balls. Frankie has to hit a 8 iron now but can still put the juice on a balata ball. Of course I spin a wedge with most any ball with my high cut. I think the funniest thing we ever did a friend of mine came down with two of his buddies a couple of years ago. We played some real golf. Now he is a great player and a club pro up in NC one of his other buddies played the E Tour and the Web Tour some. Any how we got in my shop one night and dug out some vintage wedges and I mean vintage 40s and 50s stuff and balata balls. We ended up playing a $5 Round Robin. Man those guys were zipping those balata balls off those little tight mats. We were putting on a show for the tourists. One kid asked his old man how we were doing that? His Dad replied "illegial grooved wedges" We laughed and showed him what we were playing but we did not mention the balata balls. Man that was one fun night we ended up playing 9 rounds yes 9 rounds. They permit carts believe it or not so we rode the last 3 rounds. Those last 3 rounds we had a lot of spectators. It was a lot of fun that night. On the Round Robin we all ended up even for the whole night in fact I do not remember if anyone lead period at any time. The Web player shot the record for the Par 3 that night with a 17-- I had held the record along with a couple of others with a 19 for a few years. Vintage golf is fun anyhow but more fun when the general masses think you have a screw loose for playing that antique "junk" to begin with or your antique wedges have funky grooves

[Forged4ever]

I guess that I consider vintage anything from 1981(Release date of Staff Fg17's) back to be of "vintage" era. That is the cut-off date in the two vintage tourneys that I used to Play in used.

 

Hell, like Stu said, in today's world, anything older than 6 months is considered antiquated, lol.

 

Have a nice weekend Gals & Gents :)

 

All the Best,

RP

[Soloman1]

How about using my definition of middle age for vintage clubs?

 

V© = A(m) +1

 

Where:

V© = Age of vintage club

A(m) = My age

 

Anything older than me is "Vintage" and anything made in my first 20 years is "Classic."

 

And dammit!! I had another damn birthday yesterday! Everytime I look at my watch I have another birthday...

 

Added: And my wife is 'Modern" because she's not in the "Classic" category. Eat your heart out, guys.

[augustgolf]

Since I have been a late bloomer here, I just found this thread, and was amused by the way people define "classic", "vintage", etc.

 

Can't some clubs be considered both?

 

My original Ping Karsten 1's....modern in comparison with anything that really preceeded them, yet still classic. The cavity back/perimeter weighting/cast production is still how many clubs are produced today!

 

By Richard's definition, these would be classics. Since they are well over 40 years old...I consider them to be antiques.

 

And, as Big Stu says....getting those old wedges out, and playing a balata ball is a hoot. It's also a hoot when hitting a driver with one. And, manufacturers today are trying to make a "soft" ball.

 

DUH!!!!!!!!

 

Now, considering that I played (and passed) my PAT in 1980 with a beautiful set of Hogan Apex satin back irons...would I try that today if I had it all to do over? Probably not. I also had laminated PowerBilt Citation driver & 4-wood (diamond pattern screws in the fiber face insert) and the old Hogan "47" wedge.

 

No hybrids....no LW/AW/gap wedge

 

And my putter was a Ping Anser that was on the repair rack from over the winter. I had never putted with an Anser, but thought "why not". Drained a 45' putt on the first hole for eagle 3 (this after a 45 minute rain delay, back in the day when you couldn't hit balls to warm up again if you had already started your round. Glad that rule was changed....wasn't it?)

 

Anyway....is that original Anser design considered classic, vintage, and/or antique?

 

Well....just my thoughts here today, since I just found this section.

 

And, Stu....if you read this, hope that everything after Matthew has all been cleared out. Would love to come down and play that par 3 with you and your buds sometime.

 

Ya'll have a good one....I know that I have, just need to use it more often is all!

[Sean2]

On GolfWRX a vintage club is any club older than 3 months.

[Fellaheen51]

Since I have been a late bloomer here, I just found this thread, and was amused by the way people define "classic", "vintage", etc.

 

Can't some clubs be considered both?

 

My original Ping Karsten 1's....modern in comparison with anything that really preceeded them, yet still classic. The cavity back/perimeter weighting/cast production is still how many clubs are produced today!

 

By Richard's definition, these would be classics. Since they are well over 40 years old...I consider them to be antiques.

 

And, as Big Stu says....getting those old wedges out, and playing a balata ball is a hoot. It's also a hoot when hitting a driver with one. And, manufacturers today are trying to make a "soft" ball.

 

DUH!!!!!!!!

 

Now, considering that I played (and passed) my PAT in 1980 with a beautiful set of Hogan Apex satin back irons...would I try that today if I had it all to do over? Probably not. I also had laminated PowerBilt Citation driver & 4-wood (diamond pattern screws in the fiber face insert) and the old Hogan "47" wedge.

 

No hybrids....no LW/AW/gap wedge

 

And my putter was a Ping Anser that was on the repair rack from over the winter. I had never putted with an Anser, but thought "why not". Drained a 45' putt on the first hole for eagle 3 (this after a 45 minute rain delay, back in the day when you couldn't hit balls to warm up again if you had already started your round. Glad that rule was changed....wasn't it?)

 

Anyway....is that original Anser design considered classic, vintage, and/or antique?

 

Well....just my thoughts here today, since I just found this section.

 

And, Stu....if you read this, hope that everything after Matthew has all been cleared out. Would love to come down and play that par 3 with you and your buds sometime.

 

Ya'll have a good one....I know that I have, just need to use it more often is all!

 

Have already espoused that classic and vintage can be used interchangeably. But considering the meaning of words:

 

Classic: The best of its kind. It marks a high point in development for later generations.

Vintage: Representative of or dating from a particular period of the past.

Antique: In general, representative of an item at least 100 years of age. As defined by those in the antique's business.

 

Therefore using your Anser example. Definitely qualifies as a classic. Vintage as well because it comes from a particular period. But not yet an antique.

 

And by extension, there are mostly likely examples of golf clubs that qualify in all three categories. The only real thorny issue that I see is how the application of "antique" is applied to clubs. Calling clubs "antique" in a sales listing for example, when they do not meet reputable antique dealer's "100 Year" qualifier.

 

On the whole, makes no difference to me which descriptive labels one chooses to affix.

[BIG STU]

Since I have been a late bloomer here, I just found this thread, and was amused by the way people define "classic", "vintage", etc.

 

Can't some clubs be considered both?

 

My original Ping Karsten 1's....modern in comparison with anything that really preceeded them, yet still classic. The cavity back/perimeter weighting/cast production is still how many clubs are produced today!

 

By Richard's definition, these would be classics. Since they are well over 40 years old...I consider them to be antiques.

 

And, as Big Stu says....getting those old wedges out, and playing a balata ball is a hoot. It's also a hoot when hitting a driver with one. And, manufacturers today are trying to make a "soft" ball.

 

DUH!!!!!!!!

 

Now, considering that I played (and passed) my PAT in 1980 with a beautiful set of Hogan Apex satin back irons...would I try that today if I had it all to do over? Probably not. I also had laminated PowerBilt Citation driver & 4-wood (diamond pattern screws in the fiber face insert) and the old Hogan "47" wedge.

 

No hybrids....no LW/AW/gap wedge

 

And my putter was a Ping Anser that was on the repair rack from over the winter. I had never putted with an Anser, but thought "why not". Drained a 45' putt on the first hole for eagle 3 (this after a 45 minute rain delay, back in the day when you couldn't hit balls to warm up again if you had already started your round. Glad that rule was changed....wasn't it?)

 

Anyway....is that original Anser design considered classic, vintage, and/or antique?

 

Well....just my thoughts here today, since I just found this section.

 

And, Stu....if you read this, hope that everything after Matthew has all been cleared out. Would love to come down and play that par 3 with you and your buds sometime.

 

Ya'll have a good one....I know that I have, just need to use it more often is all!

 

Have already espoused that classic and vintage can be used interchangeably. But considering the meaning of words:

 

Classic: The best of its kind. It marks a high point in development for later generations.

Vintage: Representative of or dating from a particular period of the past.

Antique: In general, representative of an item at least 100 years of age. As defined by those in the antique's business.

 

Therefore using your Anser example. Definitely qualifies as a classic. Vintage as well because it comes from a particular period. But not yet an antique.

 

And by extension, there are mostly likely examples of golf clubs that qualify in all three categories. The only real thorny issue that I see is how the application of "antique" is applied to clubs. Calling clubs "antique" in a sales listing for example, when they do not meet reputable antique dealer's "100 Year" qualifier.

 

On the whole, makes no difference to me which descriptive labels one chooses to affix.

LOL in today's world of "new and improved" every 6 months In a lot of folks eyes the stuff we play is certainly considered "antique" but I do know a true antique is 100 years old or older

[BIG STU]

Since I have been a late bloomer here, I just found this thread, and was amused by the way people define "classic", "vintage", etc.

 

Can't some clubs be considered both?

 

My original Ping Karsten 1's....modern in comparison with anything that really preceeded them, yet still classic. The cavity back/perimeter weighting/cast production is still how many clubs are produced today!

 

By Richard's definition, these would be classics. Since they are well over 40 years old...I consider them to be antiques.

 

And, as Big Stu says....getting those old wedges out, and playing a balata ball is a hoot. It's also a hoot when hitting a driver with one. And, manufacturers today are trying to make a "soft" ball.

 

DUH!!!!!!!!

 

Now, considering that I played (and passed) my PAT in 1980 with a beautiful set of Hogan Apex satin back irons...would I try that today if I had it all to do over? Probably not. I also had laminated PowerBilt Citation driver & 4-wood (diamond pattern screws in the fiber face insert) and the old Hogan "47" wedge.

 

No hybrids....no LW/AW/gap wedge

 

And my putter was a Ping Anser that was on the repair rack from over the winter. I had never putted with an Anser, but thought "why not". Drained a 45' putt on the first hole for eagle 3 (this after a 45 minute rain delay, back in the day when you couldn't hit balls to warm up again if you had already started your round. Glad that rule was changed....wasn't it?)

 

Anyway....is that original Anser design considered classic, vintage, and/or antique?

 

Well....just my thoughts here today, since I just found this section.

 

And, Stu....if you read this, hope that everything after Matthew has all been cleared out. Would love to come down and play that par 3 with you and your buds sometime.

 

Ya'll have a good one....I know that I have, just need to use it more often is all!

Come on down and we can do it . I have plenty of balata balls and vintage wedges. Those boys I last played with I do not know what they are up to now they are from the Charlotte area. But my buddy Bo Bear will play he plays vintage stuff anyway and is game for anything and he is a club ho too!

[augustgolf]

Since I have been a late bloomer here, I just found this thread, and was amused by the way people define "classic", "vintage", etc.

 

Can't some clubs be considered both?

 

My original Ping Karsten 1's....modern in comparison with anything that really preceeded them, yet still classic. The cavity back/perimeter weighting/cast production is still how many clubs are produced today!

 

By Richard's definition, these would be classics. Since they are well over 40 years old...I consider them to be antiques.

 

And, as Big Stu says....getting those old wedges out, and playing a balata ball is a hoot. It's also a hoot when hitting a driver with one. And, manufacturers today are trying to make a "soft" ball.

 

DUH!!!!!!!!

 

Now, considering that I played (and passed) my PAT in 1980 with a beautiful set of Hogan Apex satin back irons...would I try that today if I had it all to do over? Probably not. I also had laminated PowerBilt Citation driver & 4-wood (diamond pattern screws in the fiber face insert) and the old Hogan "47" wedge.

 

No hybrids....no LW/AW/gap wedge

 

And my putter was a Ping Anser that was on the repair rack from over the winter. I had never putted with an Anser, but thought "why not". Drained a 45' putt on the first hole for eagle 3 (this after a 45 minute rain delay, back in the day when you couldn't hit balls to warm up again if you had already started your round. Glad that rule was changed....wasn't it?)

 

Anyway....is that original Anser design considered classic, vintage, and/or antique?

 

Well....just my thoughts here today, since I just found this section.

 

And, Stu....if you read this, hope that everything after Matthew has all been cleared out. Would love to come down and play that par 3 with you and your buds sometime.

 

Ya'll have a good one....I know that I have, just need to use it more often is all!

Come on down and we can do it . I have plenty of balata balls and vintage wedges. Those boys I last played with I do not know what they are up to now they are from the Charlotte area. But my buddy Bo Bear will play he plays vintage stuff anyway and is game for anything and he is a club ho too!

 

I'd be willing to bet that my shag bag is 75% balata

 

I remember BITD when I played HS golf, we played in the fall. And, it could get cold, and damp.

 

Our conference championship was on one of those days. About 40 degrees when we teed off, and didn't get much warmer through the day, and certainly didn't ever have the sun come out.

 

We always received a sleeve of Titleist balls for each match - what was called the "K", with the traditional rows of "standard" sized dimples for the time.

 

I knew I wasn't going to compress that ball anyway or anyhow. So, I walked into the little pro shop at the course we were playing, and asked if I could swap my brand new Titleist for a sleeve of US Royal Tigers.

 

The guy behind the counter couldn't exchange them quick enough!

 

I outdrove everybody all day, and the ball felt as soft as any ball at any temperature.

 

Wish I had a few of them bad boys now, just for old time's sake!

[BIG STU]

August-- My old man did not play any in the fall and winter he was too busy betting football and quail hunting. Back in those days I played either the Maxfli green dot or a Titleist Ladies ball (remember those?)