George Gankas

[scratchingthesurface]

Pulling the handle and spinning the hips quickly isn't a shallowing move.

 

Absolutely it's not. I didn't word it properly. People that pull on the handle feel as if they are shallowing the club because they are no longer casting it but the club is still steep and the swing bottom is still behind the ball. Turning the hips exacerbates the problem leaving a player with the only option of coming under plane via a flip that ends up with big pull hooks and severely inconsistent striking. If the club shaft/path isn't manipulated mid downswing, it would ground about a foot behind the ball.

[iteachgolf]

Andrew is a plus handicap who had a big spin out and didn't get enough forward

 

https://instagram.com/p/-zy4cPBO_e/

[jamie]

At my club the only people who spin out are the absolute beginners and the retired high handicappers who think they can still hit the ball a mile.

 

The better players seem to suffer more from over sliding than over rotating.

 

I see way more players that spin out vs those who shift lower body too far forward coming down. By a fairly wide margin.

Which kind of players? I have to agree with QB on the better player statement.

 

Define better? Plenty of tour players and guys playing for a living who don't get forward enough coming down. An absolute ton of them that are 5 handicaps or below. I rarely see someone who is too far forward and with left hip too far outside the left foot. It happens but not nearly as often.

 

Now there are a ton who have the right amount of lateral motion and not enough rotation as well. But that's an entirely different subject and they generally can't rotate because arms/club are out of position

So these players over rotate? So a player can't be considered "sliding" if the left hip isn't outside the left heel?

[jamie]

Andrew is a plus handicap who had a big spin out and didn't get enough forward

 

https://instagram.com/p/-zy4cPBO_e/

So?

[iteachgolf]

Andrew is a plus handicap who had a big spin out and didn't get enough forward

 

https://instagram.com/p/-zy4cPBO_e/

So?

 

What do you mean so? You're the one who acted like no good players spun out and hung back

[iteachgolf]

At my club the only people who spin out are the absolute beginners and the retired high handicappers who think they can still hit the ball a mile.

 

The better players seem to suffer more from over sliding than over rotating.

 

I see way more players that spin out vs those who shift lower body too far forward coming down. By a fairly wide margin.

Which kind of players? I have to agree with QB on the better player statement.

 

Define better? Plenty of tour players and guys playing for a living who don't get forward enough coming down. An absolute ton of them that are 5 handicaps or below. I rarely see someone who is too far forward and with left hip too far outside the left foot. It happens but not nearly as often.

 

Now there are a ton who have the right amount of lateral motion and not enough rotation as well. But that's an entirely different subject and they generally can't rotate because arms/club are out of position

So these players over rotate? So a player can't be considered "sliding" if the left hip isn't outside the left heel?

 

If the left hip isn't outside the left heel you absolutely cannot call it sliding. Again there is lateral motion and a fairly large amount of it in all good swings. And in an iron swing virtually all great players move significantly laterally and have left hip outside the left heel.

 

Most of the one who spin out, yes will have hips too rotational and left leg will straighten too soon as it's too far behind left foot. Just like Andrew I posted as an example.

[jamie]

Andrew is a plus handicap who had a big spin out and didn't get enough forward

 

https://instagram.com/p/-zy4cPBO_e/

So?

 

What do you mean so? You're the one who acted like no good players spun out and hung back

I agreed with the statement "better players seem to suffer more from over-sliding than over rotating"...I don't think I made mention of there is no good player that over rotates. Is there anything about GG that you like?

[QB74]

Can you name a few of those tour players please?

 

No offense but who really cares? Most on here "experimenting" aren't tour players. They are the ones to be concerned about.

 

No worries, No offense taken, if anyone should take offense it would be Dan as you imply his statement is irrelevant.

[iteachgolf]

Andrew is a plus handicap who had a big spin out and didn't get enough forward

 

https://instagram.com/p/-zy4cPBO_e/

So?

 

What do you mean so? You're the one who acted like no good players spun out and hung back

I agreed with the statement "better players seem to suffer more from over-sliding than over rotating"...I don't think I made mention of there is no good player that over rotates. Is there anything about GG that you like?

 

Did I say a thing about GG? What do you consider over sliding? Considering you think a player can over slide but still have his hip behind his left foot I'm guessing we will have extremely different definitions.

 

I teach golf daily and a lot of lessons and see way more who don't get left enough and spin out than I do guys who get too forward.

 

I've said I liked GG and would take a lesson from him if I was in his area.

[iteachgolf]

Can you name a few of those tour players please?

 

No offense but who really cares? Most on here "experimenting" aren't tour players. They are the ones to be concerned about.

 

No worries, No offense taken, if anyone should take offense it would be Dan as you imply his statement is irrelevant.

 

Why would I be offended. I stand by what I say. Plenty of guys on tour who tend to not get forward enough, get a bit spinny and hit wipes. Matt Every would be a great example of one of them

[jamie]

Andrew is a plus handicap who had a big spin out and didn't get enough forward

 

https://instagram.com/p/-zy4cPBO_e/

So?

 

What do you mean so? You're the one who acted like no good players spun out and hung back

I agreed with the statement "better players seem to suffer more from over-sliding than over rotating"...I don't think I made mention of there is no good player that over rotates. Is there anything about GG that you like?

 

Did I say a thing about GG? What do you consider over sliding? Considering you think a player can over slide but still have his hip behind his left foot I'm guessing we will have extremely different definitions.

 

I teach golf daily and a lot of lessons and see way more who don't get left enough and spin out than I do guys who get too forward.

 

I've said I liked GG and would take a lesson from him if I was in his area.

I mentioned GG because this is a thread about him and earlier you've questioned his "feel" drill because he didn't mention "feel" and you took it as literal. I'm not a swing coach or know much about the swing, biometrics, but I didn't know it couldn't be considered sliding if your left hip wasn't outside your left heel. With my basic knowledge, I always took sliding as usually causing club to get underneath and over rotating as getting club outside.

[QB74]

Is this spinny?

 

 

Genuine question.

[TB07]

Can you name a few of those tour players please?

 

No offense but who really cares? Most on here "experimenting" aren't tour players. They are the ones to be concerned about.

 

No worries, No offense taken, if anyone should take offense it would be Dan as you imply his statement is irrelevant.

 

Not really, he's just making a point that tour players do it. The whole genesis of the discussion is average to low handicap players. Many of them are going out and "experimenting" with a lot of the same stuff that has been considered taboo on here for the past few years.

[scratchingthesurface]

KM's article about rotating vs. sliding referenced rotating being the proper way to move low point forward as opposed to sliding. I've been experimenting with GG's stuff and completely agree with KM on this. As a life long slider with poor low point control I'm finally starting to get ball first contact with some compression. I think sliding promotes early dumping of your angles.

 

It's not either or. The downswing is a blend of lateral and rotational motion. You can over do both. Every good player both moves laterally and rotates. It's about finding the middle ground

 

I agree with this also but if you've slid too much for a long time that move is ingrained. I can slide all day without having to think about it. Right now I have to consciously think about rotating to avoid the over slide.

 

I have no data to back this up, but I would guess that a lot of golfers start off in the game rotating the wrong way and develop the over the top slice move of death. Then someone teaches them how to slide into secondary tilt to flatten the plane and hit it straight or with a draw, but they've now lost a lot of rotation. Like Dan said, you need both.

 

What I think GG is doing really well is teaching how to initiate rotation with the lower body, which then slingshots rotation of the upper body into impact. When the left knee is moving down/around and the right knee is going into flexion (NOT internal rotation), it's incredibly difficult IMO to spin out. It does create an amazing stretch from the left hip pocket to the right side of the ribcage, which for me is what I need to feel to get the right shoulder/right hip feeling like they get to the ball before the club does.

 

When I saw George last summer, I really didn't get the lower body stuff down at all and I definitely was just spinning.

https://www.instagra...-by=hurryupgolf

 

I hit it really straight, but the ball flight was very low and very weak. It's taken a while, but between the membership site, some communication with George, and watching a lot more of his videos in Insta, things are definitely coming together. For the most part now it's just taking it to the course and working on ball flight patterns/misses.

 

https://www.instagra...-by=hurryupgolf

 

This is spot on.

 

This video demonstrates somewhat of what I have been saying before and is somewhat an addition to the comment above.

 

Anyone that has been over the top, steep, cast ect. and had slices with the woods or big pulls became petrified of the move toward the ball. To keep from doing this, they pulled or dropped the handle down like the guy is doing here to keep from throwing the club and rotated the hips which caused the flip I described above. To counter the flip, they then started moving only laterally and restricting hip movement so that they could move the swing bottom forward and strike the ball better. It works if practiced, but can be inconsistent especially with the longer clubs.

 

If you suddenly try to incorporate the rotation after years of purely lateral movement with minimal rotation, it will lead to spinning again and cause the player to get stuck unless they are able to shallow the club. The "over the top" movement of the hands here as GG describes along with shallowing out the club is a great way to stop a player from getting stuck and if you can master the movement of the tailbone back while not sending the right leg too soon, I think a hip spinner would be on their way to having more success transitioning to this method.

[iteachgolf]

 

So?

 

What do you mean so? You're the one who acted like no good players spun out and hung back

I agreed with the statement "better players seem to suffer more from over-sliding than over rotating"...I don't think I made mention of there is no good player that over rotates. Is there anything about GG that you like?

 

Did I say a thing about GG? What do you consider over sliding? Considering you think a player can over slide but still have his hip behind his left foot I'm guessing we will have extremely different definitions.

 

I teach golf daily and a lot of lessons and see way more who don't get left enough and spin out than I do guys who get too forward.

 

I've said I liked GG and would take a lesson from him if I was in his area.

I mentioned GG because this is a thread about him and earlier you've questioned his "feel" drill because he didn't mention "feel" and you took it as literal. I'm not a swing coach or know much about the swing, biometrics, but I didn't know it couldn't be considered sliding if your left hip wasn't outside your left heel. With my basic knowledge, I always took sliding as usually causing club to get underneath and over rotating as getting club outside.

 

Not even close to accurate. Plenty over rotate and get the club way underneath. And plenty slide while swinging too much from the outside. They are two completely different things. A slide would be too much lateral forward motion with the slower body, which would require left knee and hip to be well outside the left foot.

 

I took issue with him saying to literally have no lateral motion from p4 to p6. And that it should feel and practice moving it back. He literally said that "in reality" they will stay centered and not move forward. I didn't take it as literal. He said it was literal, multiple times. I took him at his word

[iteachgolf]

Is this spinny?

 

 

Genuine question.

 

Yes. His left hip backs up and left leg straightens too soon. That camera angle is awful and way in front of him, look how far back the ball looks, which makes him look like he is more forward than he actually is.

 

 

Very spinny

[TB07]

 

But that above vid is exactly what I said earlier. I said rotation doesn't shallow the club, club has to shallow in order to rotate the way he wants. That video describes it. That's NOT an example of the pivot shallowing the club, that's an example of the pivot rotating as arms shallow club.

[TB07]

And for the record I understand he teaches some that the PIVOT shallows the club. Not arguing that, but rotation itself doesn't.

[larssonlegend]

Can someone expand on what is meant by tucking the tail bone? Is it the opposite of pushing backside out to wipe the wall type feel?

[Ghost of Snead]

Late to the the thread, but I don't think GG is advocating absolutely no lateral movement ...

 

http://www.instagram...swingtips&hl=en

[Cape]

Is this spinny?

 

 

Genuine question.

 

Yes. His left hip backs up and left leg straightens too soon. That camera angle is awful and way in front of him, look how far back the ball looks, which makes him look like he is more forward than he actually is.

 

 

Very spinny

 

Just wondering, what shows that someone is spinny from a DTL still shot? What are we looking for vs someone that is not spinny?

[drewtaylor21]

Is this spinny?

 

[media=]

[/media]

 

Genuine question.

 

Yes. His left hip backs up and left leg straightens too soon. That camera angle is awful and way in front of him, look how far back the ball looks, which makes him look like he is more forward than he actually is.

 

 

Very spinny

 

Definitely spinning early, then jumping out of it. This is why I think it's so important to get the lower body working how GG is descibing, which is the opposite of what Every is doing. Every has right hip kicking into IR very early, while GG says the opposite. Honestly, I don't think you even CAN get spinny when doing his lower body move correctly..... Left knee down/around, right knee in flexion. If the hands feel like they're kept up top, it creates a stretch diagonally across the front of the stomach (L hip to right ribcage) that does an awesome job of pulling the chest open into impact. That's what is working for me anyway.

 

 

[QB74]

Is this spinny?

 

[media=]

[/media]

 

Genuine question.

 

Yes. His left hip backs up and left leg straightens too soon. That camera angle is awful and way in front of him, look how far back the ball looks, which makes him look like he is more forward than he actually is.

 

 

Very spinny

 

Definitely spinning early, then jumping out of it. This is why I think it's so important to get the lower body working how GG is descibing, which is the opposite of what Every is doing. Every has right hip kicking into IR very early, while GG says the opposite. Honestly, I don't think you even CAN get spinny when doing his lower body move correctly..... Left knee down/around, right knee in flexion. If the hands feel like they're kept up top, it creates a stretch diagonally across the front of the stomach (L hip to right ribcage) that does an awesome job of pulling the chest open into impact. That's what is working for me anyway.

 

 

 

He is actually in dual IR and is left with two options to break out of it, either slide more, or jump/stall. He chose the latter by the looks of it. GG teaches dual ER, that way he can rotate much better and faster. As you said, if done like GG teaches it, it's nearly impossible to be spinny.

[iteachgolf]

Is this spinny?

 

 

Genuine question.

 

Yes. His left hip backs up and left leg straightens too soon. That camera angle is awful and way in front of him, look how far back the ball looks, which makes him look like he is more forward than he actually is.

 

 

Very spinny

 

Just wondering, what shows that someone is spinny from a DTL still shot? What are we looking for vs someone that is not spinny?

 

Look at his right foot and knee. He's barely started his downswing and his hips are already square well before his left arm is parallel to the ground. And he has a very short backswing

[QB74]

Is this spinny?

 

 

Genuine question.

 

Yes. His left hip backs up and left leg straightens too soon. That camera angle is awful and way in front of him, look how far back the ball looks, which makes him look like he is more forward than he actually is.

 

 

Very spinny

 

Just wondering, what shows that someone is spinny from a DTL still shot? What are we looking for vs someone that is not spinny?

 

Look at his right foot and knee. He's barely started his downswing and his hips are already square well before his left arm is parallel to the ground. And he has a very short backswing

 

If that's what TB07 is worried about then it's not going to happen.

 

 

Option 2 would be the spinner as per above, option 3 what GG teaches is not spinning out, it's rotating fast with arms in sync shooting down.

[iteachgolf]

Is this spinny?

 

 

Genuine question.

 

Yes. His left hip backs up and left leg straightens too soon. That camera angle is awful and way in front of him, look how far back the ball looks, which makes him look like he is more forward than he actually is.

 

 

Very spinny

 

Just wondering, what shows that someone is spinny from a DTL still shot? What are we looking for vs someone that is not spinny?

 

Look at his right foot and knee. He's barely started his downswing and his hips are already square well before his left arm is parallel to the ground. And he has a very short backswing

 

If that's what TB07 is worried about then it's not going to happen.

 

 

Option 2 would be the spinner as per above, option 3 what GG teaches is not spinning out, it's rotating fast with arms in sync shooting down.

 

Done correctly I'd agree. But Andrew took lesson in person with GG and still had spin out and didn't get forward enough, and only after looking at paid site and more videos is filling in all the blanks.

If a guy who took an in person lesson and is a plus handicap can miss understand things and miss aspects of it leading to spinning out the average guy sitting at home can do the same thing. Like I said it's not bad info as far as what he wants to actually happen. But it can be misunderstood quite easily the way it's presented online and many could end up spinning out as a result

[drewtaylor21]

Done correctly I'd agree. But Andrew took lesson in person with GG and still had spin out and didn't get forward enough, and only after looking at paid site and more videos is filling in all the blanks.

If a guy who took an in person lesson and is a plus handicap can miss understand things and miss aspects of it leading to spinning out the average guy sitting at home can do the same thing. Like I said it's not bad info as far as what he wants to actually happen. But it can be misunderstood quite easily the way it's presented online and many could end up spinning out as a result

 

I would agree 100% there Dan. I will say in defense of George, I saw him for one hour and he tried to give me the whole approach, and it was very overwhelming. His ideas were still very new to me, and I would have done much better if I had gotten one piece that day, worked on it, gone back to get another piece and so on. I've had to do that on my own, so it's taken a long time and there have been some ugly bits in between. Hindsight.

 

I have found that for me, staying centered on the backswing is a big key (almost FEELS like I'm putting pressure into the right instep while upper body tilts towards target). In the video Dan showed a page back or so, I was moving more laterally on the backswing than I am now and also had more tilt away from target, and that didn't work well at all. The other big key is the proper leg work in transition that's been described.

 

The visual that resonates best for me on both counts is this:

 

 

 

[QB74]

The Instagram feed is obviously marketing, to think otherwise would be naive. And it's working perfectly, he could raise his price from I think $50hr to now $300 I believe, so the effort he put in IG worked out quite well for him.

[QB74]

Done correctly I'd agree. But Andrew took lesson in person with GG and still had spin out and didn't get forward enough, and only after looking at paid site and more videos is filling in all the blanks.

If a guy who took an in person lesson and is a plus handicap can miss understand things and miss aspects of it leading to spinning out the average guy sitting at home can do the same thing. Like I said it's not bad info as far as what he wants to actually happen. But it can be misunderstood quite easily the way it's presented online and many could end up spinning out as a result

 

I would agree 100% there Dan. I will say in defense of George, I saw him for one hour and he tried to give me the whole approach, and it was very overwhelming. His ideas were still very new to me, and I would have done much better if I had gotten one piece that day, worked on it, gone back to get another piece and so on. I've had to do that on my own, so it's taken a long time and there have been some ugly bits in between. Hindsight.

 

I have found that for me, staying centered on the backswing is a big key (almost FEELS like I'm putting pressure into the right instep while upper body tilts towards target). In the video Dan showed a page back or so, I was moving more laterally on the backswing than I am now and also had more tilt away from target, and that didn't work well at all. The other big key is the proper leg work in transition that's been described.

 

The visual that resonates best for me on both counts is this:

 

 

 

 

Very interesting. Could you lose a few words on the pressure of the last 3 toes please? I don't think I get that right. Does it feel like pushing off those left toes? Or pushing into them?

[drewtaylor21]

Done correctly I'd agree. But Andrew took lesson in person with GG and still had spin out and didn't get forward enough, and only after looking at paid site and more videos is filling in all the blanks.

If a guy who took an in person lesson and is a plus handicap can miss understand things and miss aspects of it leading to spinning out the average guy sitting at home can do the same thing. Like I said it's not bad info as far as what he wants to actually happen. But it can be misunderstood quite easily the way it's presented online and many could end up spinning out as a result

 

I would agree 100% there Dan. I will say in defense of George, I saw him for one hour and he tried to give me the whole approach, and it was very overwhelming. His ideas were still very new to me, and I would have done much better if I had gotten one piece that day, worked on it, gone back to get another piece and so on. I've had to do that on my own, so it's taken a long time and there have been some ugly bits in between. Hindsight.

 

I have found that for me, staying centered on the backswing is a big key (almost FEELS like I'm putting pressure into the right instep while upper body tilts towards target). In the video Dan showed a page back or so, I was moving more laterally on the backswing than I am now and also had more tilt away from target, and that didn't work well at all. The other big key is the proper leg work in transition that's been described.

 

The visual that resonates best for me on both counts is this:

 

 

 

 

Very interesting. Could you lose a few words on the pressure of the last 3 toes please? I don't think I get that right. Does it feel like pushing off those left toes? Or pushing into them?

 

Honestly, that's not a feel I've ever heard from GG and not a feel I use, so I can't help much there. My transition feel is to point the left kneecap at the target while right knee flexes and hands stay up top. Then everything just unwinds.