Clubhouse Grille (*** NO LIV DISCUSSIONS ***) (*** NO POLITICS/RELIGION ***)

[Conrad1953]

1 hour ago, Qqq123xx said:

Roll all the way out to sea. 😁🙂

 

[BIG STU]

56 minutes ago, Qqq123xx said:

Would this be your theme song Stu ??  🙃

your theme song Stu ??  🙃

Yep guilty as charged but much rather prefer Tom Petty "Learning To Fly"---- The last for a while was my theme song early in my injury when taking those good painkillers--- but seriously I am off them now been so since July

[BIG STU]

5 hours ago, nitram said:

I've  noticed the same thing and even talked to some other guys about it through PM's.

 

The way I see it you either have fitters who see an "opportunity" walk in the door and have scruples that'd make a used car salesman blush. Or you have these guys who don't know their swing well enough for it to be repeatable and continue to follow the latest U-tube video's and chase center face contact on a minute-to minute basis. The truth has to lie somewhere in between but I can't believe this many fitter are incompetent and/or immoral.

 

So when they get their new driver they're not swinging it the way they were the day they were fit. It's a dichotomy that's been going around for a decade or more. Folks new to golf being encouraged to get fit to improve before they have any inclination about the bottom of their swing. There have been numerous voluminous threads about it and while I personally believe getting fit can definitely help someone reach the next level. I also believe you have to have some repeatability in your swing before you can see a benefit. 

 

It seems to me, in the past folks were too embarrassed to admit they made a mistake and kept it to themselves. Now, in the unfiltered world we live in, not so much. Especially when it can be blamed on someone besides the face in the mirror.

Well said and I will add there is a difference between playing golf and playing golf swing. And there is also a difference between playing real golf on a course or driving range hero. And I will be the first to tell you I do not have a by the book swing-- I have my own home made swing right or wrong

[BIG STU]

4 hours ago, miamistomp said:

 People play no better now than they did 35 years ago when I stopped playing. I began again 2 1/2 years ago when I retired

  Clubs had changed, ball changed , people knew numbers, had rangefinders, rode in carts and still sucked

Players do hit driver better with tech improvements but for the average guy-fitting is not necessary-just something to spend money on

Irons and putters are still just irons and putters

 

Personally I dont care what is in a pro's bag- does not relate to  my game . Its like buying a car that some Nascar guy drives- unless its the Junior Johnson . Fire ball Roberts days that car means nothing to the average guy

Just bought a few more Eye 2 wedges off ebay to replace some worn ones-

still nothing gets me out of the sand better

 

Its amusing to hear guys who could not pass algebra in school debate  moi, angles and other stuff 

 

Agree with you on the golf. Ironic the first race I ever attended was the World 600 at Charlotte where Fireball Roberts was burned and that led to his death. If you are on FB I can hook you up on some of the vintage racing sites some of those guys are restoring cars from that era.

 

[SixtySomePing]

4 hours ago, miamistomp said:

 Entertainment when you are covid bored

 

 I only watch the golfmates if OMP is on- the man has game-Liam never shuts up and the others are not interesting to me

  Stacked is just silly after a while- most clubs they buy are junk- the kids are pleasant but I certainly dont want to watch them play golf with a square strike

I used to like sidekick but that got old too-if you cant swing the club - mental game can only help so much

 I think a lot of the others set unrealistic expectations-all 300 yard drives and 200 yard 5 irons

  It is like expecting to meet porn star girls at the local pub and then be disappointed because the real person is not that image

Hi miamistomp, I'm trying to place your guitar from your profile pic. Looks nice, I want it to be a Gibson, but the more rounded body top is throwing me off, too rounded to be a 339 or 335... must be from the 50's if it is something before those. Or it's something else like a Gretsch or a Godin but this looks too much like a Gibson?

[tolmij]

4 hours ago, scomac2002 said:

 

I never really understood this notion that a custom fitting is more beneficial to a higher handicap player that a lower handicap one.  Tom Wishon was quite firm on that.  It doesn't really make any sense if you are playing appropriate clubs with appropriate shafts.

 

For me the fitting was more about getting the length and lie angles sorted as well as defining the best bend profile for my swing.  Once you have a handle on that you should be able to move forward on your own provided you can do a bit of rudimentary club work.  The interesting thing about this was that most of the benefit came from my online fitting at Ping.  The in-person session just confirmed the online results.

 

The other aspect about hiring a fitter that you haven't mentioned is this idea that we are special and we deserve to be treated as individuals much like in Lake Wobegon, where all the women are strong, all the men are good-looking, and all the children are above average.  

Never really understood club fitting for club golfers, as has been suggested by many in the Grille unless you can guarantee your swing will be identical when you play there is no benefit, its just another cash grab that the golfing community seems to have down to a fine art.

 

I am on another golf site that I never visit but I still have emails every day talking about new equipment and how it will improve my game, if I took any notice club ho would be an understatement.

 

My last set of new clubs were a Christmas present from my son, he ordered them from a reputable golf supplier. He gave them my age, handicap, height and weight, never had a problem hitting with them, although at my level of golf broomsticks would possibly give me the same result.

[miamistomp]

1 hour ago, SixtySomePing said:

Hi miamistomp, I'm trying to place your guitar from your profile pic. Looks nice, I want it to be a Gibson, but the more rounded body top is throwing me off, too rounded to be a 339 or 335... must be from the 50's if it is something before those. Or it's something else like a Gretsch or a Godin but this looks too much like a Gibson?

 Gibson ES 125 D ( two p90s)

   Don't have that one  anymore but I do play a Gibson ES 125 T now ( one pickup and thin body )

[Sean2]

6 hours ago, Conrad1953 said:

Well, there is at least one benefit to be being a club ho for awhile and that is if you are reasonably

intelligent you will eventually learn how clubs and shafts work, what works best for you and what

you prefer.......and would rather fit yourself than entrust the job to someone else.

 

Industry folks would like us to believe it's rocket science and we should pay someone to fit us.....

.............and that we should go buy some new club because it's a nano micro better than the last

iteration.

 

I'm not going to be critical of people because after years of hanging out here at WRX I've

learned golfers make their gear choices based on many factors and some of those factors

having nothing to do with shooting lower scores, lol. To each their own.

I did a lot of ho'ing in my time, but one day realized it's more about the swing than the equipment. Unless it's ancient, I don't see any reason to change. An acquaintance of mine went through three sets of irons last season and they didn't change his game at all. Of course, some people like shiny new things, so there is that, but if people are hoping to buy a better game...well, good luck with that, lol. 

[SixtySomePing]

2 hours ago, miamistomp said:

 Gibson ES 125 D ( two p90s)

   Don't have that one  anymore but I do play a Gibson ES 125 T now ( one pickup and thin body )

Very nice looking guitar the vintage ones were sweet, well, lots of the vintage ones were sweet, some nice Fenders too... P90's make a nice sound. Now that I've gotten older and don't play in bands anymore I just have an Epiphone ES339 Pro, but I did get a new Taylor 814ce DLX V-class acoustic which I mostly play now. It's a pretty nice acoustic/ electric I got when I retired... 

[scomac2002]

5 hours ago, Sean2 said:

I did a lot of ho'ing in my time, but one day realized it's more about the swing than the equipment. Unless it's ancient, I don't see any reason to change. An acquaintance of mine went through three sets of irons last season and they didn't change his game at all. Of course, some people like shiny new things, so there is that, but if people are hoping to buy a better game...well, good luck with that, lol. 

 

This often seems to come down to an either/or argument.  It's the Indian, not the arrow argument is more reflective of the differences between two golfers rather than the impact that equipment can have on an individual's game, be it either positive or negative.  It seems to me that it's more of a middle ground reality.

 

It may not even be about playing better.  It maybe about playing more enjoyably/comfortably or stemming the tide of decline as much as it is about playing better.  That's certainly the reality of the aging player which I know that you're all too familiar with as am I.

[tolmij]

59 minutes ago, scomac2002 said:

 

This often seems to come down to an either/or argument.  It's the Indian, not the arrow argument is more reflective of the differences between two golfers rather than the impact that equipment can have on an individual's game, be it either positive or negative.  It seems to me that it's more of a middle ground reality.

 

It may not even be about playing better.  It maybe about playing more enjoyably/comfortably or stemming the tide of decline as much as it is about playing better.  That's certainly the reality of the aging player which I know that you're all too familiar with as am I.

As indicated by sco, one item I never see discussed in a golf forum is something that was always discussed in our judo clubs, that is whether the individual has the body type or the personality to do well at the sport. For instance, we always gave group coaching sessions for a short time to give basics and then individual  coaching to make the technique fit the style and body type and personality of the player, much like I suppose golf coaching should be. What was obvious to the experienced coach was that some would never be more than average at best no matter how hard they tried.

 

Now back to golf, to my mind the golf salesmen try to tell you no matter how bad your game, this or that new expensive equipment will fix it, I know no matter how much I spend I will never be a single handicap golfer, or even a low double. I know when I play its just for fun, but at my regular club the person giving private lessons has always told me he will make me an above average player. Its nothing to do with my self image for my game, its the reality of knowing I never will or would  have been a top player, I do not have the mindset for the work involved, but with judo I practiced almost every day because that was what grabbed me. Some like the idea of being good at golf, but it is too hard because there is no natural talent. Look at the way Tigers son hits a ball, not many club golfers can do that and it's because he was born with it. 

 

On another forum I used to post in, there was a section where members used to tell about their attempts to become a scratch golfer, it was sad really reading the way they tried and the amount  of cash they spent chasing the dream, I used to go back in the forums two/three years to see how long they had been trying and many had not advanced at all in that time. I have no problem with anyone trying to better themselves, but it has to be done with realistic expectations.

 

Just my thoughts on a Sunday afternoon. Feel free to disagree.

 

Edited January 3, 2021 by tolmij

[scomac2002]

I remember when my oldest son took up the game.  He was maybe 7 or 8 when he first started to play.  DW bought him a 7 club junior set and enrolled him in golf camp at the local executive length course.

 

I never understood at the time what had motivated him to play "golf"?  Neither I nor his mother did or ever had for that matter.  My BIL was the only one who golfed and that was viewed with disdain because it always caused him to either miss or be late for family gatherings.  I remember going golfing with my BIL on a couple of occasions to which he recommended that I find another sport.  I really wanted nothing to do with golf, but my son did so I/we humoured him.

 

After a couple of years of him playing mostly with the kids he played hockey with he announced that he wanted to take lessons for Christmas.  WE obliged and enrolled him in a 10 lesson package over the winter.

 

About 2/3 of the way through I went to pick him up after a lesson and his instructor took me aside and said to me:  "He's going to need new clubs.  When I'm finished with him he's going to be good!"  This coming from a recognized teaching pro who had played on the Canadian Tour.  And so it begins...

 

In my mind he is good and I guess that's all that matters, but in his mind he sucks.  He's a very good ball striker, but only average for length at best.  He's never been able to go really low, as he just doesn't have that scoring touch.  I've scored as low as he has (81 for a par 72) despite being not nearly as good a player, but he is far more consistent than I.  He used to be really good around the green with a wedge or putter in hand, but those skills have waned in recent years.  Mostly I think because of a lack of play.  He probably played more this past summer than the five previous summers combined, so there maybe hope yet.

 

I've rambled on long enough and looking back I'm still not sure of the point I am trying to make other than perhaps confirm what @tolmij has said upthread.  You can have the will and the desire, but that won't overcome your god given talent.  ISTM that in golf there are plenty of players with an abundance of the first two, but that will only take them as far as the third allows.

[Sean2]

13 hours ago, scomac2002 said:

 

This often seems to come down to an either/or argument.  It's the Indian, not the arrow argument is more reflective of the differences between two golfers rather than the impact that equipment can have on an individual's game, be it either positive or negative.  It seems to me that it's more of a middle ground reality.

 

It may not even be about playing better.  It maybe about playing more enjoyably/comfortably or stemming the tide of decline as much as it is about playing better.  That's certainly the reality of the aging player which I know that you're all too familiar with as am I.

I am learning to accept what golf gives me on any given day, and simply be okay with that, instead of being too hard on myself. 

[Sean2]

12 hours ago, tolmij said:

As indicated by sco, one item I never see discussed in a golf forum is something that was always discussed in our judo clubs, that is whether the individual has the body type or the personality to do well at the sport. For instance, we always gave group coaching sessions for a short time to give basics and then individual  coaching to make the technique fit the style and body type and personality of the player, much like I suppose golf coaching should be. What was obvious to the experienced coach was that some would never be more than average at best no matter how hard they tried.

 

Now back to golf, to my mind the golf salesmen try to tell you no matter how bad your game, this or that new expensive equipment will fix it, I know no matter how much I spend I will never be a single handicap golfer, or even a low double. I know when I play its just for fun, but at my regular club the person giving private lessons has always told me he will make me an above average player. Its nothing to do with my self image for my game, its the reality of knowing I never will or would  have been a top player, I do not have the mindset for the work involved, but with judo I practiced almost every day because that was what grabbed me. Some like the idea of being good at golf, but it is too hard because there is no natural talent. Look at the way Tigers son hits a ball, not many club golfers can do that and it's because he was born with it. 

 

On another forum I used to post in, there was a section where members used to tell about their attempts to become a scratch golfer, it was sad really reading the way they tried and the amount  of cash they spent chasing the dream, I used to go back in the forums two/three years to see how long they had been trying and many had not advanced at all in that time. I have no problem with anyone trying to better themselves, but it has to be done with realistic expectations.

 

Just my thoughts on a Sunday afternoon. Feel free to disagree.

 

I suppose that is what makes golf frustrating. If you put that much effort into any other activity you will show much better results, not so with golf. You can put in the effort, but the returns don't seem to reflect that effort. I know a couple of people who have a gift for the game...one guy picked up the game three years ago and is a scratch golfer and a legit 300+ yard hitter. But, he is an outlier. 

 

Golf is a hard game, and not many people can play it at a high level, despite lessons, equipment, and what not. 

[BIG STU]

6 hours ago, Sean2 said:

I suppose that is what makes golf frustrating. If you put that much effort into any other activity you will show much better results, not so with golf. You can put in the effort, but the returns don't seem to reflect that effort. I know a couple of people who have a gift for the game...one guy picked up the game three years ago and is a scratch golfer and a legit 300+ yard hitter. But, he is an outlier. 

 

Golf is a hard game, and not many people can play it at a high level, despite lessons, equipment, and what not. 

Your last sentence sums it up--- You can not buy a game

[Reasonability]

21 hours ago, scomac2002 said:

 

This often seems to come down to an either/or argument.  It's the Indian, not the arrow argument is more reflective of the differences between two golfers rather than the impact that equipment can have on an individual's game, be it either positive or negative.  It seems to me that it's more of a middle ground reality.

 

It may not even be about playing better.  It maybe about playing more enjoyably/comfortably or stemming the tide of decline as much as it is about playing better.  That's certainly the reality of the aging player which I know that you're all too familiar with as am I.

 

Just banged out a rant, hit 'Submit Reply', and poof - it vaporized.  Maybe the lesson I should learn is to avoid ranting in the first place.

 

Trying again here:

 

Player A wants to play the same sticks as Rory and figures getting them fitted will vault his game to incredible levels.

 

Player B can tweak his own sticks.  Builds them from scratch if need be.  Does things to his clubs fitters wouldn't even try.

 

Player C has a semblance of ball flights that fit a pattern.  He might need a few lessons but his goal in a fitting is to narrow his dispersion of misses a little.

 

Player D sprays the ball radomly everywhere.  Has money to spend on a fitting and he's going for it ASAP.

 

Now let's talk fitters.   

 

Fitter X is not only certified by the Acme club company, he has an Acme cart full of components that go together like snap-on tools.

 

Fitter Y not only has a cool cart, but he has a launch monitor!  He MUST be good at his job, right?

 

Fitter Z applies art to his science.  He is honest enough to ask a client to consider a few lessons before going forward (if needed).  He takes his time.  He doesn't rush to judgement about anything in the process.  

 

 

So which golfer, paired with which fitter, has a fighting chance?  

 

 

WOW!  Got it said with half the words this time.

 

Thanks for teeing this one up Scomacer!

 

 

[bscinstnct]

My goodness, forgive me, and accept my best wishes to all you fine gents at the Grille for a...

 

Happy and Healthy 2021!! 🎉

 

Its been a tough year to say the least. My Mom passed away in August at 87, God Bless. She passed suddenly and without suffering, thankfully. I have to say that delivering the eulogy was probably the hardest thing I ever had to do. 
 

But apparently...I did a great job! There were lots of tears and laughs and a few people came to me after and said they wanted me to give *their eulogies when they die, lol. 
 

I kid but, I’m sure we have all had to suffer through loss and try to find peace in the richness that our loved ones bestowed on us while they were with us.

 

Now, I’m sure we had all had quite enough of 2020. So let’s all buckle down and get through this and make it a fantastic 2021 ; )

 

I must say that the first thing we’re  going to do when we have a real “all clear” on this is to go to a crowded movie! 

Edited January 4, 2021 by bscinstnct

[Reasonability]

20 hours ago, tolmij said:

As indicated by sco, one item I never see discussed in a golf forum is something that was always discussed in our judo clubs, that is whether the individual has the body type or the personality to do well at the sport. For instance, we always gave group coaching sessions for a short time to give basics and then individual  coaching to make the technique fit the style and body type and personality of the player, much like I suppose golf coaching should be. What was obvious to the experienced coach was that some would never be more than average at best no matter how hard they tried.

 

Now back to golf, to my mind the golf salesmen try to tell you no matter how bad your game, this or that new expensive equipment will fix it, I know no matter how much I spend I will never be a single handicap golfer, or even a low double. I know when I play its just for fun, but at my regular club the person giving private lessons has always told me he will make me an above average player. Its nothing to do with my self image for my game, its the reality of knowing I never will or would  have been a top player, I do not have the mindset for the work involved, but with judo I practiced almost every day because that was what grabbed me. Some like the idea of being good at golf, but it is too hard because there is no natural talent. Look at the way Tigers son hits a ball, not many club golfers can do that and it's because he was born with it. 

 

On another forum I used to post in, there was a section where members used to tell about their attempts to become a scratch golfer, it was sad really reading the way they tried and the amount  of cash they spent chasing the dream, I used to go back in the forums two/three years to see how long they had been trying and many had not advanced at all in that time. I have no problem with anyone trying to better themselves, but it has to be done with realistic expectations.

 

Just my thoughts on a Sunday afternoon. Feel free to disagree.

 

 

First, what you're pointing out is both interesting and rare when it comes to golf instruction and forums.  Very rare.  I've seen a few attempts at broaching the subject.  The poster doesn't ever seem to get much traction.  You will know far better than me but there are evidently mesomorphs, ectomorphs, and such.  Can't name them all, can't spell them correctly, and not even sure I'm exactly on your wavelength here or not.  But from what I understand there are various classifications of body types which, to your point, gives individuals certain "leanings" or "tendencies" when it comes to any particular athletic endeavor.

 

Something I found whilst posting.  Hopefully I still know how to attach a video.

 

https://worldclassgolf.com/all-series/different-body-types-swing-pattern/endomorph-mesomorph-ectomorph-a-look-at-the-different-body-types-at-swing-characteristics

 

 

[Reasonability]

5 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

My goodness, forgive me, and accept my best wishes to all you fine gents at the Grille for a...

 

Happy and Healthy 2021!! 🎉

 

Its been a tough year to say the least. My Mom passed away in August at 87, God Bless. She passed suddenly and without suffering, thankfully. I have to say that delivering the eulogy was probably the hardest thing I ever had to do. 
 

But apparently...I did a great job! There were lots of tears and laughs and a few people came to me after and said they wanted me to give *their eulogies when they die, lol. 
 

I kid but, I’m sure we have all had to suffer through loss and try to find peace in the richness that our loved ones bestowed on us while they were with us.

 

Now, I’m sure we had all had quite enough of 2020. So let’s all buckle down and get through this and make it a fantastic 2021 ; )

 

I must say that the first thing we’re  going to do when we have a real “all clear” on this is to go to a crowded movie! 

 

So sorry sorry about your loss.   Yes, speaking at a funeral absolutely calls upon every last cell in your mind and body.  If you believe you did justice to her and the task, it's a guarantee you did.  

 

Here's to 2021.  Last year was a test we need not repeat going forward.  See you along a better road!

[tolmij]

2 hours ago, Reasonability said:

 

First, what you're pointing out is both interesting and rare when it comes to golf instruction and forums.  Very rare.  I've seen a few attempts at broaching the subject.  The poster doesn't ever seem to get much traction.  You will know far better than me but there are evidently mesomorphs, ectomorphs, and such.  Can't name them all, can't spell them correctly, and not even sure I'm exactly on your wavelength here or not.  But from what I understand there are various classifications of body types which, to your point, gives individuals certain "leanings" or "tendencies" when it comes to any particular athletic endeavor.

 

Something I found whilst posting.  Hopefully I still know how to attach a video.

 

https://worldclassgolf.com/all-series/different-body-types-swing-pattern/endomorph-mesomorph-ectomorph-a-look-at-the-different-body-types-at-swing-characteristics

 

 

Did not look at the video in detail, will do that later, but yes that is exactly where I am coming from, with our judo coaching it was almost impossible to give the finer detailed instruction to two players. As with any sport, body type has to be a consideration. Look at professional tennis, how many players have exactly the same strong game characteristics, they all approach their matches using their own strong points which are determined by their individual body type.

 

When I did my coaching courses many of the sessions were not sport specific, they were designed to encourage the coach to look for the strengths in each individual, the techniques were set down in a rigid format for demonstration purposes but once the fighting began it was a completely different story.

 

My main teaching and coaching was from the age of 5 to 16/18. When you are teaching this age group, the necessity to treat every person completely differently is even more important, as young persons bodies are even more diverse than adults as they mature in completely different ways and speed, I think I was a reasonably successful coach as at one national championship in particular we took every first and second place in every category, most coaches for  some reason even though they would have been trained as coaches the same as myself, did not take time to look at the individual, and the results reflected that, the other coaches on the seniors side at our club, 16 plus did the same and we had two successful fighters in the Olympics.

 

Just look at our own Stu, he is the first person to say his stroke conforms to no set pattern, but he was and still is an extremely good golfer, having played on the pro circuit. He is different from the other pro golfers and just a little more extreme in his difference.

 

Yes we are all individuals, no two people are exactly the same, our bodies are different, so I cannot see how rigid training to one specific routine can work for all players, my only lessons from pro golfers were a disappointment for this very reason. I attended a group session where no one was allowed to do anything different and it looked an absolute mess. I cannot see how the one size fits all approach that some golf tutors have can ever work, to me its the easy way out that requires minimal thinking and effort from the coach.

 

as before, feel free to dissagree.

Edited January 4, 2021 by tolmij

[tolmij]

1 hour ago, bscinstnct said:

My goodness, forgive me, and accept my best wishes to all you fine gents at the Grille for a...

 

Happy and Healthy 2021!! 🎉

 

Its been a tough year to say the least. My Mom passed away in August at 87, God Bless. She passed suddenly and without suffering, thankfully. I have to say that delivering the eulogy was probably the hardest thing I ever had to do. 
 

But apparently...I did a great job! There were lots of tears and laughs and a few people came to me after and said they wanted me to give *their eulogies when they die, lol. 
 

I kid but, I’m sure we have all had to suffer through loss and try to find peace in the richness that our loved ones bestowed on us while they were with us.

 

Now, I’m sure we had all had quite enough of 2020. So let’s all buckle down and get through this and make it a fantastic 2021 ; )

 

I must say that the first thing we’re  going to do when we have a real “all clear” on this is to go to a crowded movie! 

Sorry about your Father, never easy to lose a loved one.

[scomac2002]

34 minutes ago, tolmij said:

Sorry about your Father, never easy to lose a loved one.

 

Ditto @bscinstnct

[Divot License]

On 1/2/2021 at 12:52 PM, scomac2002 said:

Is it just me or are there an increasing number of threads popping up where guys order new custom fit clubs and then struggle with them once they get them out on the course?

 

How is it that you go to a fitter and get on the launch monitor and get optimized for your swing and then when more than few of these guys go to the course they can't play nearly as well as they expected?

 

I know that there is an adjustment period.  I've played enough different clubs, sometimes wildly different, over the years to be well aware of that.  As you may recall, I had a heck of a time getting adjusted to my current irons, but once I got them set up appropriately they have been fine.  Isn't that the whole point of custom fitting?  To get them set up correctly from the get go? 

 

We're probably not getting the whole story on some of these situations, but I do recall on more than one occasion at the course that fellows would show up with brand new shiny drivers and then after about a month would be back playing the old club again.  Not really a rousing endorsement!

 

 

On 1/2/2021 at 2:55 PM, nitram said:

I've  noticed the same thing and even talked to some other guys about it through PM's.

 

The way I see it you either have fitters who see an "opportunity" walk in the door and have scruples that'd make a used car salesman blush. Or you have these guys who don't know their swing well enough for it to be repeatable and continue to follow the latest U-tube video's and chase center face contact on a minute-to minute basis. The truth has to lie somewhere in between but I can't believe this many fitter are incompetent and/or immoral.

 

So when they get their new driver they're not swinging it the way they were the day they were fit. It's a dichotomy that's been going around for a decade or more. Folks new to golf being encouraged to get fit to improve before they have any inclination about the bottom of their swing. There have been numerous voluminous threads about it and while I personally believe getting fit can definitely help someone reach the next level. I also believe you have to have some repeatability in your swing before you can see a benefit. 

 

It seems to me, in the past folks were too embarrassed to admit they made a mistake and kept it to themselves. Now, in the unfiltered world we live in, not so much. Especially when it can be blamed on someone besides the face in the mirror.

My wife used to work at our club, the head pro is a PGA master fitter and spends a large portion of his time fitting people from all over of all abilities, even some lower level tour players.

 

She often would assist with these fittings (assembling and dismantling clubs for example) and one thing both she and the pro noticed is that the persons swing would change during the fitting. If they were hitting a push all day, she said she could see them trying to alter their swing to hit it straighter. This defeats the point of the fitting as they are not making the swing they usually make and the fitter will fit the clubs to match the swing and shots you are hitting on the day. 

 

I have had a couple of fittings with the Pro, who I've known for many years and play alot of golf with and occasionally after we start he will just stop the fitting and say "You're not swinging well today, theirs no point doing this fitting. You're hitting a draw today and usually it's a small fade, anything we fit today won't work on your usual day".

 

I think many people, even when going for a fitting, have an Ego problem and don't want to be seen hitting "bad" shots and therefore manipulate their swing and ergo get poorly fitted clubs.  

[Divot License]

On 1/2/2021 at 5:08 PM, scomac2002 said:

 

I never really understood this notion that a custom fitting is more beneficial to a higher handicap player that a lower handicap one.  Tom Wishon was quite firm on that.  It doesn't really make any sense if you are playing appropriate clubs with appropriate shafts.

 

 

This is something that quite often gets discussed when I play with higher handicap players.

 

Inevitably discussions over my clubs and why I play them come up, eventually I hear the same "well your's obviously fitted to you so will work better than mine which aren't"

 

The next line is some variation on the question of if they should get fitted better or not, my response is always the same

Me - "When you hit it, does you ball USUALLY do the same thing each shot"

Them - "No, it could do anything"

Me - "Then there's no point in a fitting as you don't make a repeatable swing BUT you should get the clubs check for length and lie angle as that is dependent on body shape and not swing and will make a big difference if wrong"

[Divot License]

On 1/2/2021 at 11:09 PM, Sean2 said:

I did a lot of ho'ing in my time, but one day realized it's more about the swing than the equipment. Unless it's ancient, I don't see any reason to change. An acquaintance of mine went through three sets of irons last season and they didn't change his game at all. Of course, some people like shiny new things, so there is that, but if people are hoping to buy a better game...well, good luck with that, lol. 

I like to tell people who change clubs often that thy suffer from SOS - Shiny Object Syndrome 

[Divot License]

8 hours ago, bscinstnct said:

My goodness, forgive me, and accept my best wishes to all you fine gents at the Grille for a...

 

Happy and Healthy 2021!! 🎉

 

Its been a tough year to say the least. My Mom passed away in August at 87, God Bless. She passed suddenly and without suffering, thankfully. I have to say that delivering the eulogy was probably the hardest thing I ever had to do. 

So sorry to hear about your loss @bscinstnct

 

I have only ever attended 3 funerals, all of them for family members. My grandmother (fathers side) died when I was 13, I didn't know her that well as we lived in different parts of the country and my only real memory of the event is being picked up from boarding school by my father and brother and sitting in a car wondering what was happening, I don't really remember the funeral or much else of the day.

 

The third funeral was last year and was for Grandfather (mothers side), he was 88, had been blind his whole life and had escaped death twice so far in his years, both times he was clinically dead at some point. He had been ill for a long time so it was no surprise to his passing and he thankfully went in this sleep.

 

The second funeral is by far the most painful, in 2007 my father passed away, he was 58 years of age and relatively healthy. He suffered what can best be described as a heart failure. At the hospital the doctors said they believed he was dead before his body had even hit the floor as he showed no signs of breaking his fall. 

This came at and incredibly painful time as it was the same week as my first wedding anniversary with my ex wife and also we were scheduled to go to dinner that night with my parents were we both planned to tell them we were pregnant with our first child. 

At the funeral I had to make a eulogy, it was so incredibly painful and hard to get through and took about 3 times as long as it should due to me emotionally falling apart several times. 

 

I don't plan on doing anymore eulogies for many many years as I'm still young (only 37) and hope that gives me many more years before I lose someone close enough where I'm called on.

[Divot License]

Happy (a little) belated New Year to all the grillers.

 

I decided to take a break from technology between Christmas and New Year since once I return to work (today) I will be back in front of a laptop for 9 hours of the day. 

 

I've just about caught up on all the posts within the grille I've missed (sorry for the spam replies).

 

It's been an interesting week, due to covid I didn't see my kids until the 29th December so we had a second Christmas then with them. Some golf courses have been shut in my area not due to covid but due to the weather and the ones that open have been members only for the past few weeks. With all that I finally got out yesterday for 9 holes with the wife. Giving her 7 shots over the 9 she handsomely defeated me 3&1. All that time she's been spending at the range the past weeks seems to be starting to pay off as she only hit 1 mishit shot on the round, a thinned iron that still found it's way to the fringe. 

 

Speaking of the range, that place filled me with dread on Saturday. 3 of my regular group and I attended the range in the morning for a few hours of fun since we could not play on the course. Using the new top tracer facilitates we played several rounds of alternate shot matches however for some reason I could not hit a ball and by the end was worried about keeping the ball on the driving range. This is on the back of a major swing change I have begun implementing over the past two months, since lockdown begun. (There is a story to this so if anyone is interested just ask and I'll write up a separate post).

Needless to say I was concerned about playing yesterday but thankfully my ball striking was a little better and a couple of good chips aided in shooting a respectable score considering.

 

The best aspect of yesterday was spending a couple of hours on the course with my wife and just getting outside again. It helped that it was a very pleasant winters day. 

 

 

[tolmij]

58 minutes ago, Jedaigeki said:

 

My wife used to work at our club, the head pro is a PGA master fitter and spends a large portion of his time fitting people from all over of all abilities, even some lower level tour players.

 

She often would assist with these fittings (assembling and dismantling clubs for example) and one thing both she and the pro noticed is that the persons swing would change during the fitting. If they were hitting a push all day, she said she could see them trying to alter their swing to hit it straighter. This defeats the point of the fitting as they are not making the swing they usually make and the fitter will fit the clubs to match the swing and shots you are hitting on the day. 

 

I have had a couple of fittings with the Pro, who I've known for many years and play alot of golf with and occasionally after we start he will just stop the fitting and say "You're not swinging well today, theirs no point doing this fitting. You're hitting a draw today and usually it's a small fade, anything we fit today won't work on your usual day".

 

I think many people, even when going for a fitting, have an Ego problem and don't want to be seen hitting "bad" shots and therefore manipulate their swing and ergo get poorly fitted clubs.  

Going back to my judo days, we used to pay very high ranking Japanese masters to coach for a day, and it was amazing how many changed what was their normal technique to show what they thought he wanted to see. We used to take them aside and explain the realities of having them there.

Edited January 4, 2021 by tolmij

[tolmij]

7 minutes ago, Jedaigeki said:

Happy (a little) belated New Year to all the grillers.

 

I decided to take a break from technology between Christmas and New Year since once I return to work (today) I will be back in front of a laptop for 9 hours of the day. 

 

I've just about caught up on all the posts within the grille I've missed (sorry for the spam replies).

 

It's been an interesting week, due to covid I didn't see my kids until the 29th December so we had a second Christmas then with them. Some golf courses have been shut in my area not due to covid but due to the weather and the ones that open have been members only for the past few weeks. With all that I finally got out yesterday for 9 holes with the wife. Giving her 7 shots over the 9 she handsomely defeated me 3&1. All that time she's been spending at the range the past weeks seems to be starting to pay off as she only hit 1 mishit shot on the round, a thinned iron that still found it's way to the fringe. 

 

Speaking of the range, that place filled me with dread on Saturday. 3 of my regular group and I attended the range in the morning for a few hours of fun since we could not play on the course. Using the new top tracer facilitates we played several rounds of alternate shot matches however for some reason I could not hit a ball and by the end was worried about keeping the ball on the driving range. This is on the back of a major swing change I have begun implementing over the past two months, since lockdown begun. (There is a story to this so if anyone is interested just ask and I'll write up a separate post).

Needless to say I was concerned about playing yesterday but thankfully my ball striking was a little better and a couple of good chips aided in shooting a respectable score considering.

 

The best aspect of yesterday was spending a couple of hours on the course with my wife and just getting outside again. It helped that it was a very pleasant winters day. 

 

 

And a happy new year to you and your family, good to see you can get out onto the course, don't think she will let you forget that defeat.🤨

[BIG STU]

9 hours ago, Reasonability said:

 

Just banged out a rant, hit 'Submit Reply', and poof - it vaporized.  Maybe the lesson I should learn is to avoid ranting in the first place.

 

Trying again here:

 

Player A wants to play the same sticks as Rory and figures getting them fitted will vault his game to incredible levels.

 

Player B can tweak his own sticks.  Builds them from scratch if need be.  Does things to his clubs fitters wouldn't even try.

 

Player C has a semblance of ball flights that fit a pattern.  He might need a few lessons but his goal in a fitting is to narrow his dispersion of misses a little.

 

Player D sprays the ball radomly everywhere.  Has money to spend on a fitting and he's going for it ASAP.

 

Now let's talk fitters.   

 

Fitter X is not only certified by the Acme club company, he has an Acme cart full of components that go together like snap-on tools.

 

Fitter Y not only has a cool cart, but he has a launch monitor!  He MUST be good at his job, right?

 

Fitter Z applies art to his science.  He is honest enough to ask a client to consider a few lessons before going forward (if needed).  He takes his time.  He doesn't rush to judgement about anything in the process.  

 

 

So which golfer, paired with which fitter, has a fighting chance?  

 

 

WOW!  Got it said with half the words this time.

 

Thanks for teeing this one up Scomacer!

 

 

I am player B and when I was in the business I was fitter Z ------ And can tell you fitter z has more satisified and repeat customers