ANA rules issue (Merged)

[legitimategolf]

Take heart Lexi fans. The same breed of basement dwelling loser that probably called in Lexi's penalty, is now harassing So Yeon Ryu on social media.

[CCTxGolf]

Am I the only person that doesn't feel overly sorry for her?

 

From the replays it looks pretty blatant and deliberate she wasn't putting it back in the same spot (trying to avoid a spike mark or some green imperfection maybe?)

 

Totally agree! The more I watch it the more it looks like she was blatantly trying to improve her ball position. She knew what she was doing, it's her job.

 

I do however agree that it is BS that a tv viewer changed the outcome of a major. Especially a day later.

[carn9698]

Its very simple. Mark the ball tight behind the ball facing the hole.

 

Replace it in the same spot when its time to play. Not to the side, behind or an 1/2 inch in front.

 

If you are not doing it correctly its cheating. Sorry those the rules.

 

I see dodgy ball replacement a lot in amateur golf. 1 Guy that used to be in our group got the nickname nudger. The guy marked it nearly an inch in front regularly.

 

Teeing up slightly in front of the marker I see a lot on the course also. Do not get me started on not replacing divots!

[carn9698]

Take heart Lexi fans. The same breed of basement dwelling loser that probably called in Lexi's penalty, is now harassing So Yeon Ryu on social media.

Yes Lexi I am sure it was not intentional! Give me a break.

 

4 Point pens must be given for fun and not to deter bad intentions.....

[cardoustie]

How can some of you say she moved it intentionally? That is quite a leap and unfair IMO

 

More likely she wasn't paying attention when she put it down .... or parallax ... and then she paid attention replacing it thus causing the slight shift sideways

 

She didn't mark the side of the ball as someone above said .. it was behind the ball but just off centre

 

She should stop marking the ball from sideways, easy not to centre it behind the ball .. AND she did do this later in the round as well

 

To me it is CRAZY that Sunday's round is not subject to a next day call in but the first 3 rounds are ... where is the equity there?

 

And 100% agree on the 2 shot penalty and not 4. How can she get an extra 2 for a wrong card when she and everyone else said it was right on Saturday? This rule will be changed.

 

Black eye on golf and the LPGA .. right after a major announcement to simplify things

[KyGolf]

Generally speaking, laws and rules have some foundation in logic.

 

I asked this earlier but received no replies. What is the reason/logic (if any) behind the 2 strokes penalty for signing an incorrect card? Is it just tradition, or some other logical reasoning?

 

If it's nothing more than tradition, and they're going to allow TV rule call-ins and changes to the score after the fact, then the rule (2 strokes penalty) should be eliminated and the player should be allowed to re-sign her amended scorecard.

 

The double jeopardy defies all logic & common sense

 

 

I replied to someone several pages back, may have been you. The penalty was DQ up until 2016 when it was amended to 2 strokes. I looked back as far as 1899 and found this:

 

R&A Sept. 26, 1899

 

4. The scores shall be kept by a special marker or by the competitors noting each other’s scores.

The scores marked shall be checked after each hole. On completion of the round, the score of the competitor

shall be signed by the marker, counter-signed by the competitor, and handed to the Secretary or his deputy,

after which, unless it be found that a card returned shows a score below that actually

played (in which case the competitor shall be disqualified), no correction or alteration can be made.

 

So for at least 118 years you have not been able to change your scorecard once signed and accepted.

[Strike Force]

If the LPGA is found to be wrong in giving Lexi the 2 stroke penalty for signing an incorrect scorecard - what happens? Mickey Wright, Babe Didrikson Zaharias, Ben Hogan and Booby Jones could come back to life and make a public statements against giving Lexi the 2 stroke penalty for signing an incorrect scorecard and the LPGA would NEVER admit a mistake was made.

[gunmetal]

-Receiving a penalty for a signed inaccurate scorecard when in fact it was completely 100% accurate when she signed it is the biggest golf fail of 2017. There was nothing she could have done because by her own admission she had no idea that she did anything wrong (I know there are plenty on here that want to label her a cheater who knew exactly what she was doing but that doesn't add up because you can repair divot marks) so how could she fore see that her card would be inaccurate?

[Vindog]

So I see a lot of frustration at the LPGA.... what did they do wrong? Nothing. Trust me, they didn't want to make that call, they were obligated to.

 

People should be allowed to call in, I don't understand why any player would be against it. It protects the field. The person calling in didn't give the penalty, the LPGA took the info, reviewed it, and made the correct decision as soon as they could.

 

I know your thinking I'm the person who called in. I'm not. Actually when I was watching last night I was pretty upset. My daughter thinks golf is stupid and I was blown away by a penalty be assessed a day later.

 

Now I am wondering why you need to mark a 10 inch putt anyway.

 

Again, it's their tournament. They're not obligated to do anything. Just like the Masters with Tiger.

 

I'm curious, where was Whan when all this was going on?

 

And the masters committee looked like favoritists at the time, imo. And were shown to be incorrect, by Tigers own admission.

 

Sorry but they looked really bad right there.

[gunmetal]

Its very simple. Mark the ball tight behind the ball facing the hole.

 

Replace it in the same spot when its time to play. Not to the side, behind or an 1/2 inch in front.

 

If you are not doing it correctly its cheating. Sorry those the rules.

 

I see dodgy ball replacement a lot in amateur golf. 1 Guy that used to be in our group got the nickname nudger. The guy marked it nearly an inch in front regularly.

 

Teeing up slightly in front of the marker I see a lot on the course also. Do not get me started on not replacing divots!

 

If she was doing it with intent or cheating as you say to avoid having to putt out of a divot, why wouldn't she just have fixed the divot with her tool? I think it was pretty clear in real time, she stands next to it about to tap it in, remembers to putt with the logo face up and go through some of her routine so she marks from the side and makes a simple HONEST mistake of replacing from behind. Bit of a stretch to call her a cheater and trying to gain an advantage when she clearly didn't have the need to cheat because she could repair the surface!

[cardoustie]

Its very simple. Mark the ball tight behind the ball facing the hole.

 

Replace it in the same spot when its time to play. Not to the side, behind or an 1/2 inch in front.

 

If you are not doing it correctly its cheating. Sorry those the rules.

 

I see dodgy ball replacement a lot in amateur golf. 1 Guy that used to be in our group got the nickname nudger. The guy marked it nearly an inch in front regularly.

 

Teeing up slightly in front of the marker I see a lot on the course also. Do not get me started on not replacing divots!

 

I say to guys like that, mark it one more time and you'll be putting back at the hole .... early in the round. Guys clean up their acts and you have the added bonus in matches that they are uncomfortable that you know they are labelled a cheater ... and that you are watching

[imakaveli]

Am I the only person that doesn't feel overly sorry for her?

 

From the replays it looks pretty blatant and deliberate she wasn't putting it back in the same spot (trying to avoid a spike mark or some green imperfection maybe?)

 

Totally agree! The more I watch it the more it looks like she was blatantly trying to improve her ball position. She knew what she was doing, it's her job.

 

I do however agree that it is BS that a tv viewer changed the outcome of a major. Especially a day later.

 

Would have Pettersen or Sergio done that they would have been called cheaters for years

[Seamus_McDuff]

What would have happened if her caddy had stopped her from tapping in and pointed out she had placed it in the wrong spot but since the coin was picked up they weren't 100% sure what the exact spot was?

[CCTxGolf]

How can some of you say she moved it intentionally? That is quite a leap and unfair IMO

 

More likely she wasn't paying attention when she put it down .... or parallax ... and then she paid attention replacing it thus causing the slight shift sideways

 

She didn't mark the side of the ball as someone above said .. it was behind the ball but just off centre

 

She should stop marking the ball from sideways, easy not to centre it behind the ball .. AND she did do this later in the round as well

 

To me it is CRAZY that Sunday's round is not subject to a next day call in but the first 3 rounds are ... where is the equity there?

 

And 100% agree on the 2 shot penalty and not 4. How can she get an extra 2 for a wrong card when she and everyone else said it was right on Saturday? This rule will be changed.

 

Black eye on golf and the LPGA .. right after a major announcement to simplify things

 

I like Lexi a lot, but how can you say it was not intentional? It is purely speculation from both view points. What leads me to speculate that it was in fact intentional is the fact that she replaced the ball immediately after marking it. She did not back off and remark from a different angle. She leaned down marked the ball and in the same motion replaced it in a different spot. This spot appears to have improved her position and line to the hole. It happened and she did it. Again, she is a pro golfer, it is her job to do this properly and know how to mark a ball.

[8602081]

I want to believe that it was unintentional. Lexi is probably most liked American LPGA player..

 

 

 

Conclusion:

 

The rules needs to be updated.

 

 

Lexi needs to learn how to mark the ball.

[CCTxGolf]

Conclusion:

 

The rules needs to be updated.

 

Lexi needs to learn how to mark the ball.

 

Yes!!! The most accurate post in this thread!

[Vindog]

What would have happened if her caddy had stopped her from tapping in and pointed out she had placed it in the wrong spot but since the coin was picked up they weren't 100% sure what the exact spot was?

 

It should be easy to figure out if the ball had not been played.

[Goldenchang]

To say that there is no possible competitive advantage gained from 1/2 an inch is either naive or disingenuous. How many putts do we see every week that hang on the lip that needed a "1/4 in" more or burned the edge. Moving the ball nearer to the hole or improving your line affects putts. Intention can not be proven either way, so I will stay out of that argument.

 

Another thought about the day after business. Who's to say that if she was penalized right away that she wouldn't have played worse without the 4 strokes better than the field she thought she had for the remainder of the 3rd round and beginning of the fourth round ?

 

[carn9698]

Its very simple. Mark the ball tight behind the ball facing the hole.

 

Replace it in the same spot when its time to play. Not to the side, behind or an 1/2 inch in front.

 

If you are not doing it correctly its cheating. Sorry those the rules.

 

I see dodgy ball replacement a lot in amateur golf. 1 Guy that used to be in our group got the nickname nudger. The guy marked it nearly an inch in front regularly.

 

Teeing up slightly in front of the marker I see a lot on the course also. Do not get me started on not replacing divots!

 

If she was doing it with intent or cheating as you say to avoid having to putt out of a divot, why wouldn't she just have fixed the divot with her tool? I think it was pretty clear in real time, she stands next to it about to tap it in, remembers to putt with the logo face up and go through some of her routine so she marks from the side and makes a simple HONEST mistake of replacing from behind. Bit of a stretch to call her a cheater and trying to gain an advantage when she clearly didn't have the need to cheat because she could repair the surface!

its sloppy at best. There is only 1 way to mark and replace your ball. Not doing it you can gain an advantage.

Everyone just do it correct and there is no issues.

 

How did the official s tell her it was not intentional? Only she knows that.

 

Gotta be accountable for your actions. Just the way it is and should be.

 

[G.O.A.T]

She obviously did it on purpose. The two stroke penalty was the right call but hitting her with another two is ludicrous what an embarrassment. Golf rules are the biggest joke in the world. Such a big rule book yet still find ways to f*** up

[Strike Force]

 

I like Lexi a lot, but how can you say it was not intentional?

 

I think it was totally unintentional. All she wanted to do was to have the line on her ball aligned properly at the hole. The distance was not an issue because it was flat and just 18" or so. She just likes to have the line on her ball aligned properly.

[cardoustie]

How can some of you say she moved it intentionally? That is quite a leap and unfair IMO

 

More likely she wasn't paying attention when she put it down .... or parallax ... and then she paid attention replacing it thus causing the slight shift sideways

 

She didn't mark the side of the ball as someone above said .. it was behind the ball but just off centre

 

She should stop marking the ball from sideways, easy not to centre it behind the ball .. AND she did do this later in the round as well

 

To me it is CRAZY that Sunday's round is not subject to a next day call in but the first 3 rounds are ... where is the equity there?

 

And 100% agree on the 2 shot penalty and not 4. How can she get an extra 2 for a wrong card when she and everyone else said it was right on Saturday? This rule will be changed.

 

Black eye on golf and the LPGA .. right after a major announcement to simplify things

 

I like Lexi a lot, but how can you say it was not intentional? It is purely speculation from both view points. What leads me to speculate that it was in fact intentional is the fact that she replaced the ball immediately after marking it. She did not back off and remark from a different angle. She leaned down marked the ball and in the same motion replaced it in a different spot. This spot appears to have improved her position and line to the hole. It happened and she did it. Again, she is a pro golfer, it is her job to do this properly and know how to mark a ball.

 

I give the player the benefit of the doubt. Especially a top player that is on TV all the time, is well aware of this, and has no history of bending the rules

[CCTxGolf]

 

I like Lexi a lot, but how can you say it was not intentional?

 

I think it was totally unintentional. All she wanted to do was to have the line on her ball aligned properly at the hole. The distance was not an issue because it was flat and just 18" or so. She just likes to have the line on her ball aligned properly.

 

If she likes to line her ball up properly it seems like she would have done this enough times to know how to mark her ball without causing this mess. She clearly moved it enough for this conversation to even be happening.

 

I don't know either way if it was intentional or meant to cheat, or if it was simply the most costly brain fart of her life. It just doesn't look good for her.

 

Edit - Also, thanks for only posting a reply to part of my comment. Very Slick

[8602081]

How to Mark your ball..

 

[HackerDave]

My issue is you shouldn't be able to go back a day, and most certainly not after you have started the next round. Lets say this happened in the second round. The cut is top 70 and ties. This penalty could have brought a dozen people above the cut line but now they are screwed. You have to draw the line somewhere. A guy on a couch is not a rules official and its time ALL of the tours stop this.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

The lesson from this is, use a smaller, thinner, hard to see marker for TV viewers. I thought golf ruling reviews weren't supposed to be zoomed in anyway.

[vwgolfer]

She did not sign for a incorrect scorecard. Once the scorecard is signed game is over. How can anyone be retroactively penalized by someone sitting on the couch and calling in is beyond stupid. The rule to penalize her for the incorrect scorecard is out of line and does not even make sense in this case. And once again the penalty for her ball marking fiasco should be one stroke. why not 3 strokes? why not 5 strokes? make all penalties one stroke and move on. simplify the rules please and get rid of incorrect scorecard rule if you have no reasonable idea there was a incorrect score posted. How the hell was she to know? golf looks really really idiotic here.

[Goldenchang]

 

I like Lexi a lot, but how can you say it was not intentional?

 

I think it was totally unintentional. All she wanted to do was to have the line on her ball aligned properly at the hole. The distance was not an issue because it was flat and just 18" or so. She just likes to have the line on her ball aligned properly.

 

If she wanted the line pointed at the hole or wanted to go through her routine, I would think she would have replaced the ball from behind rather than from the side...

[OBbogey5]

What would have happened if her caddy had stopped her from tapping in and pointed out she had placed it in the wrong spot but since the coin was picked up they weren't 100% sure what the exact spot was?

 

Excellent question! I'll tell you exactly what would have happened.. Lexi and her playing partner would have been called over by a rules official, and they all would have agreed on the exact spot. Tap in. Lexi wins by four.

 

Actually, I just made that up. It makes the most sense, so I'm sure the opposite is really what would have happened.

[Texsport]

BTW - most of the cameras used for golf are hand held.

 

Did the cameraman move even an inch during the time he was standing there?

 

Texsport