Effective Immediately, Rules Change to Limit Video Review

[quix24]

http://www.golfdigest.com/story/usga-and-randa-announce-immediate-rule-change-limiting-power-of-video-evidence

 

It doesn't stop people from calling in but it limits their impact.

[damnisuck]

Very good decision.

[dave412]

yeah, I agree.. this is a good decision.. I like that they are making swift and smart changes.

[tap in birdie]

Very good decision.

 

I disagree. It's better but not the answer. They need to ban people from emailing and calling from their couch. It's ridiculous. Like many other issues I think they wiffed on this one. Just to add insult to injury they never admitted how unfair they were to Lexi and they quoted Suzanne petterson's bunker shot instead. Also, no mention of the DJ debacle but I guess he won anyway so no harm no foul? If we're only calling things the naked eye can see, can't we go off the naked eye of the players, caddies and rule officials?

[NiagaraGolfGirl]

Very good decision.

 

I disagree. It's better but not the answer. They need to ban people from emailing and calling from their couch. It's ridiculous. Like many other issues I think they wiffed on this one. Just to add insult to injury they never admitted how unfair they were to Lexi and they quoted Suzanne petterson's bunker shot instead. Also, no mention of the DJ debacle but I guess he won anyway so no harm no foul? If we're only calling things the naked eye can see, can't we go off the naked eye of the players, caddies and rule officials?

 

Agree entirely. At the very least they can't be looking at issues from the day before. A player needs to be given the chance to sign a correct scorecard.

[Argonne69]

Don't see how this would have applied to Lexi's situation. It was quite clear from the non-zoomed video that she misplaced her ball. If the caller/emailer could see it on the regular video feed, it was certainly clear to Lexi's naked eye that the ball was played from the wrong position.

 

Keep in mind that the "zoomed" video was digitally zoomed after the fact. The camera operator did not zoom in to see the infraction. Even if they had, it would have still been clear to the naked eye that the ball was in the wrong spot.

[King_Slender]

"Due to the nature of television coverage and ensuring equal scrutiny to all players, viewer input on rules violations will not be considered during the course of a tournament. As posted on the USGA website: 'Golf involves a human element. Golf is a game of honor. Players are expected to call penalties on themselves. The other competitors in a tournament "protect the field" by monitoring each other in a group and, at the end, placing an attesting signature on a scorecard.'

 

All decisions going forward will take place among the players and rules officials on the course."

 

Is that so hard?

[Argonne69]

"Due to the nature of television coverage and ensuring equal scrutiny to all players, viewer input on rules violations will not be considered during the course of a tournament. As posted on the USGA website: 'Golf involves a human element. Golf is a game of honor. Players are expected to call penalties on themselves. The other competitors in a tournament "protect the field" by monitoring each other in a group and, at the end, placing an attesting signature on a scorecard.'

 

All decisions going forward will take place among the players and rules officials on the course."

 

Is that so hard?

 

That's ridiculous. How does a playing partner enforce the rules when they are 50 yards away? When they have their back turned?

 

It's rather simple. Don't break the rules, and one doesn't need to worry how it's (not) caught.

 

Game of honor? That's a laugh. Between the sandbaggers and the outright cheats, it's not been a game of honor for quite a long time

[Argonne69]

Very good decision.

 

I disagree. It's better but not the answer. They need to ban people from emailing and calling from their couch. It's ridiculous. Like many other issues I think they wiffed on this one. Just to add insult to injury they never admitted how unfair they were to Lexi and they quoted Suzanne petterson's bunker shot instead. Also, no mention of the DJ debacle but I guess he won anyway so no harm no foul? If we're only calling things the naked eye can see, can't we go off the naked eye of the players, caddies and rule officials?

 

Agree entirely. At the very least they can't be looking at issues from the day before. A player needs to be given the chance to sign a correct scorecard.

 

What happens when the "day before" was a few hours ago? Due to delays, rounds are often finished the next day, with the following round started immediately.

[tbowles411]

Very good decision.

 

I disagree. It's better but not the answer. They need to ban people from emailing and calling from their couch. It's ridiculous. Like many other issues I think they wiffed on this one. Just to add insult to injury they never admitted how unfair they were to Lexi and they quoted Suzanne petterson's bunker shot instead. Also, no mention of the DJ debacle but I guess he won anyway so no harm no foul? If we're only calling things the naked eye can see, can't we go off the naked eye of the players, caddies and rule officials?

Agreed. Some donk can still call in and affect the tournament's outcome. While she was in the wrong, it still leaves too much wiggle room. I feel the USGA/R&A punted the ultimate decision and in fact, don't mind what happened at all. She messed up. Two shots. No problem. But they ultimately didn't address the main issue completely.

[lumberman2462]

People are still going to find violations on video and post on message boards or make the videos available in some format. In the not so distant future I see a violation occurring and the player not getting penalized and when it effects the outcome of the tournament we'll have another big deal about someone cheating and winning.

[Warrick]

swing and a miss IMO.

[tbowles411]

Very good decision.

 

I disagree. It's better but not the answer. They need to ban people from emailing and calling from their couch. It's ridiculous. Like many other issues I think they wiffed on this one. Just to add insult to injury they never admitted how unfair they were to Lexi and they quoted Suzanne petterson's bunker shot instead. Also, no mention of the DJ debacle but I guess he won anyway so no harm no foul? If we're only calling things the naked eye can see, can't we go off the naked eye of the players, caddies and rule officials?

 

Agree entirely. At the very least they can't be looking at issues from the day before. A player needs to be given the chance to sign a correct scorecard.

 

What happens when the "day before" was a few hours ago? Due to delays, rounds are often finished the next day, with the following round started immediately.

You sign your card. Your round is over. Period.

[nochct1]

"Due to the nature of television coverage and ensuring equal scrutiny to all players, viewer input on rules violations will not be considered during the course of a tournament. As posted on the USGA website: 'Golf involves a human element. Golf is a game of honor. Players are expected to call penalties on themselves. The other competitors in a tournament "protect the field" by monitoring each other in a group and, at the end, placing an attesting signature on a scorecard.'

 

All decisions going forward will take place among the players and rules officials on the course."

 

Is that so hard?

 

That's ridiculous. How does a playing partner enforce the rules when they are 50 yards away? When they have their back turned?

 

It's rather simple. Don't break the rules, and one doesn't need to worry how it's (not) caught.

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure the point of this is that you don't always know when you break the rules. So no, it's not simple.

 

There is also the issue of some players being on TV and others not being on TV.

[Argonne69]

Very good decision.

 

I disagree. It's better but not the answer. They need to ban people from emailing and calling from their couch. It's ridiculous. Like many other issues I think they wiffed on this one. Just to add insult to injury they never admitted how unfair they were to Lexi and they quoted Suzanne petterson's bunker shot instead. Also, no mention of the DJ debacle but I guess he won anyway so no harm no foul? If we're only calling things the naked eye can see, can't we go off the naked eye of the players, caddies and rule officials?

 

Agree entirely. At the very least they can't be looking at issues from the day before. A player needs to be given the chance to sign a correct scorecard.

 

What happens when the "day before" was a few hours ago? Due to delays, rounds are often finished the next day, with the following round started immediately.

You sign your card. Your round is over. Period.

 

I believe the better answer is to hold off signing cards until the tournament is over. Stroke play events are 72 hole affairs, not best of four events.

[Argonne69]

"Due to the nature of television coverage and ensuring equal scrutiny to all players, viewer input on rules violations will not be considered during the course of a tournament. As posted on the USGA website: 'Golf involves a human element. Golf is a game of honor. Players are expected to call penalties on themselves. The other competitors in a tournament "protect the field" by monitoring each other in a group and, at the end, placing an attesting signature on a scorecard.'

 

All decisions going forward will take place among the players and rules officials on the course."

 

Is that so hard?

 

That's ridiculous. How does a playing partner enforce the rules when they are 50 yards away? When they have their back turned?

 

It's rather simple. Don't break the rules, and one doesn't need to worry how it's (not) caught.

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure the point of this is that you don't always know when you break the rules. So no, it's not simple.

 

There is also the issue of some players being on TV and others not being on TV.

 

No, it's very simple. Knowledge of the infraction is no basis for enforcement of the penalty. If the rules official sees evidence of an infraction, they are obligated to call the penalty, regardless of whether the player knew it at the time.

 

I've been caught speeding numerous times. Trying to get out of it by telling the officer that there are drivers out there speeding that aren't being watched never seems to work very well.

[Doyle Hargraves]

I believe the better answer is to hold off signing cards until the tournament is over. Stroke play events are 72 hole affairs, not best of four events.

 

 

Why? Because a viewer may call in Sunday afternoon citing a rules infraction from Thursday morning?

 

Very good decision.

 

I disagree. It's better but not the answer. They need to ban people from emailing and calling from their couch. It's ridiculous. Like many other issues I think they wiffed on this one. Just to add insult to injury they never admitted how unfair they were to Lexi and they quoted Suzanne petterson's bunker shot instead. Also, no mention of the DJ debacle but I guess he won anyway so no harm no foul? If we're only calling things the naked eye can see, can't we go off the naked eye of the players, caddies and rule officials?

 

You nailed it.

[tbowles411]

I believe the better answer is to hold off signing cards until the tournament is over. Stroke play events are 72 hole affairs, not best of four events.

I'd be OK with that, but the problem still exists. You can still affect the outcome of a tournament from your couch.

[Warrick]

The call in # should go straight to VM, and say "thanks for calling, but we have rules officials, the chips are in the pantry....

[Argonne69]

Is the tournament still in progress on Sunday afternoon? Do you think the field might like a chance of improving their position knowing that a player violated a rule during the course of the still active tournament?

[Argonne69]

The call in # should go straight to VM, and say "thanks for calling, but we have rules officials, the chips are in the pantry....

 

What if a fan on the course sees the violation? Are they not allowed to inform the official?

[Warrick]

The call in # should go straight to VM, and say "thanks for calling, but we have rules officials, the chips are in the pantry....

 

What if a fan on the course sees the violation? Are they not allowed to inform the official?

 

Sure, go tell the walking official if they will listen to you.

 

Sorry, VM is full...lol.

[bladehunter]

"Due to the nature of television coverage and ensuring equal scrutiny to all players, viewer input on rules violations will not be considered during the course of a tournament. As posted on the USGA website: 'Golf involves a human element. Golf is a game of honor. Players are expected to call penalties on themselves. The other competitors in a tournament "protect the field" by monitoring each other in a group and, at the end, placing an attesting signature on a scorecard.'

 

All decisions going forward will take place among the players and rules officials on the course."

 

Is that so hard?

 

That's ridiculous. How does a playing partner enforce the rules when they are 50 yards away? When they have their back turned?

 

It's rather simple. Don't break the rules, and one doesn't need to worry how it's (not) caught.

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure the point of this is that you don't always know when you break the rules. So no, it's not simple.

 

There is also the issue of some players being on TV and others not being on TV.

 

No, it's very simple. Knowledge of the infraction is no basis for enforcement of the penalty. If the rules official sees evidence of an infraction, they are obligated to call the penalty, regardless of whether the player knew it at the time.

 

I've been caught speeding numerous times. Trying to get out of it by telling the officer that there are drivers out there speeding that aren't being watched never seems to work very well.

 

 

lol but to your point it is against the law to profile certain types of drivers... and thats what happens with stars vs the also rans..... the stars are profiled....

[SeaOfGreen10]

"Due to the nature of television coverage and ensuring equal scrutiny to all players, viewer input on rules violations will not be considered during the course of a tournament. As posted on the USGA website: 'Golf involves a human element. Golf is a game of honor. Players are expected to call penalties on themselves. The other competitors in a tournament "protect the field" by monitoring each other in a group and, at the end, placing an attesting signature on a scorecard.'

 

All decisions going forward will take place among the players and rules officials on the course."

 

Is that so hard?

 

That's ridiculous. How does a playing partner enforce the rules when they are 50 yards away? When they have their back turned?

 

It's rather simple. Don't break the rules, and one doesn't need to worry how it's (not) caught.

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure the point of this is that you don't always know when you break the rules. So no, it's not simple.

 

There is also the issue of some players being on TV and others not being on TV.

 

No, it's very simple. Knowledge of the infraction is no basis for enforcement of the penalty. If the rules official sees evidence of an infraction, they are obligated to call the penalty, regardless of whether the player knew it at the time.

 

I've been caught speeding numerous times. Trying to get out of it by telling the officer that there are drivers out there speeding that aren't being watched never seems to work very well.

 

But you aren't competing against the other drivers in any way.

[legitimategolf]

I wonder if this decision would still have been made if a) Lexi Thompson did not cry during the final around at the Inspiration, or if b) she had taken responsibility and admitted that she goofed up and marked the ball wrong.

[gmangolf]

Timeliness is essential. You can't change the parameters in the final round with a handful of holes left because some guy watching DVR saw something at the last minute. If you can't call a penalty promptly (before the card is signed or the next round is started) you should not call it at all. Changing the parameters in the middle of the round changes the dynamics too significantly. Who is to say they wouldn't have played differently if the penalty had been called sooner? Certainly Lexi's strategy for that final round would have been different... other players too. Calling it late in the round isn't fair to anyone.

 

How absurd would it be if the NBA announced that they were going to start awarding free throws in the 4th quarter for foul calls missed in the first? There has to be a time limit on infractions being called because whether or not they are called impacts how the event is played. What about in the NFL if half way through the 4th quarter they decied to take a touchdown off the board because there was a missed holding call?

 

The call in # should go straight to VM, and say "thanks for calling, but we have rules officials, the chips are in the pantry....

 

What if a fan on the course sees the violation? Are they not allowed to inform the official?

 

Just like every other sport - they can inform the official... but the official shouldn't pay attention.

[Argonne69]

 

lol but to your point it is against the law to profile certain types of drivers... and thats what happens with stars vs the also rans..... the stars are profiled....

 

The lead groups know they are being videoed, and yet they still break the rules. Face it, nobody really gives two sh*ts if the 67th placed player breaks the rules. If they happen to get caught on camera, then they'll be penalized. However, the outcome of the tournament hinges on the play of the lead players. You don't think the NFL refs pay a little more attention to the quarterback?

[bladehunter]

Don't see how this would have applied to Lexi's situation. It was quite clear from the non-zoomed video that she misplaced her ball. If the caller/emailer could see it on the regular video feed, it was certainly clear to Lexi's naked eye that the ball was played from the wrong position.

 

Keep in mind that the "zoomed" video was digitally zoomed after the fact. The camera operator did not zoom in to see the infraction. Even if they had, it would have still been clear to the naked eye that the ball was in the wrong spot.

 

 

disagree... it would have made DJ Lexi and Nordquists decisions reversed ...... you cannot say with certainty on any of these that the ball moves, the sand is touched or that the mark isnt "in resonable distance" to the original mark with the naked eye and without slowing it down or rewinding.... thats what it now says.... You cant say that in your original watcing of lexi that you said " oh man that ball isnt near where it was originally" i have it on DVR ad have watched it in real tme at least 40 times... showing others etc.. you cant tell... the video we see later is much enhanced and slowed way down...

[bladehunter]

lol but to your point it is against the law to profile certain types of drivers... and thats what happens with stars vs the also rans..... the stars are profiled....

 

The lead groups know they are being videoed, and yet they still break the rules. Face it, nobody really gives two sh*ts if the 67th placed player breaks the rules. If they happen to get caught on camera, then they'll be penalized. However, the outcome of the tournament hinges on the play of the lead players. You don't think the NFL refs pay a little more attention to the quarterback?

 

hope not.. pass interference and other action happens from the O line down field.... QB doesnt have many rules to break..

[Argonne69]

Don't see how this would have applied to Lexi's situation. It was quite clear from the non-zoomed video that she misplaced her ball. If the caller/emailer could see it on the regular video feed, it was certainly clear to Lexi's naked eye that the ball was played from the wrong position.

 

Keep in mind that the "zoomed" video was digitally zoomed after the fact. The camera operator did not zoom in to see the infraction. Even if they had, it would have still been clear to the naked eye that the ball was in the wrong spot.

 

 

disagree... it would have made DJ Lexi and Nordquists decisions reversed ...... you cannot say with certainty on any of these that the ball moves, the sand is touched or that the mark isnt "in resonable distance" to the original mark with the naked eye and without slowing it down or rewinding.... thats what it now says.... You cant say that in your original watcing of lexi that you said " oh man that ball isnt near where it was originally" i have it on DVR ad have watched it in real tme at least 40 times... showing others etc.. you cant tell... the video we see later is much enhanced and slowed way down...

 

I agree with DJ and Anna. However, it was quite clear to me that Lexi placed her ball in the wrong spot when viewed at normal speed on the un-zoomed feed. Apparently, it was clear to the person who emailed in the violation as well.