Effective Immediately, Rules Change to Limit Video Review

tap in birdie · April 25, 2017

Don't see how this would have applied to Lexi's situation. It was quite clear from the non-zoomed video that she misplaced her ball. If the caller/emailer could see it on the regular video feed, it was certainly clear to Lexi's naked eye that the ball was played from the wrong position.

Keep in mind that the "zoomed" video was digitally zoomed after the fact. The camera operator did not zoom in to see the infraction. Even if they had, it would have still been clear to the naked eye that the ball was in the wrong spot.

disagree... it would have made DJ Lexi and Nordquists decisions reversed ...... you cannot say with certainty on any of these that the ball moves, the sand is touched or that the mark isnt "in resonable distance" to the original mark with the naked eye and without slowing it down or rewinding.... thats what it now says.... You cant say that in your original watcing of lexi that you said " oh man that ball isnt near where it was originally" i have it on DVR ad have watched it in real tme at least 40 times... showing others etc.. you cant tell... the video we see later is much enhanced and slowed way down...

I agree with DJ and Anna. However, it was quite clear to me that Lexi placed her ball in the wrong spot when viewed at normal speed on the un-zoomed feed. Apparently, it was clear to the person who emailed in the violation as well.

Can you be sure that SHE noticed it? She got an additional 2 stoke for signing the card. She may have put the ball down haphazardly but that doesn't mean she was knowingly gaming her opponents.

bscinstnct · April 25, 2017

I thought they already had this rule after the whole oscillating ball thing.

What is going on?!!!

tap in birdie · April 25, 2017

Very good decision.

I disagree. It's better but not the answer. They need to ban people from emailing and calling from their couch. It's ridiculous. Like many other issues I think they wiffed on this one. Just to add insult to injury they never admitted how unfair they were to Lexi and they quoted Suzanne petterson's bunker shot instead. Also, no mention of the DJ debacle but I guess he won anyway so no harm no foul? If we're only calling things the naked eye can see, can't we go off the naked eye of the players, caddies and rule officials?

I'm not sure if you read the article but it wasn't Suzanne Peterson, it was Anna Nordqvist, and there was a whole paragraph on the DJ ruling, even calling it "A foundational subtext"

I didn't read the article. And yes I mixed up Suzanne and Anna. Are you going to phone into wrx and get me banned from the site ? ...won't cost me a major.

I know golf well, I don't need to read every article understand the issues at hand. I remember the Ana situation vividly just mixed her up with another golfer. "

In terms of the article..Im assuming they talk about the DJ situation but not the way that they conducted themselves. Where's the accountability? We're talking about lack of accountability in schmucks calling penalties from their couch, and they come out with a vague solution. Their mistakes cost that young woman a major! I don't need to cite sources to talk about how ludicrous the governing bodies have handled recent scenarios.

whr · April 25, 2017

Don't see how this would have applied to Lexi's situation. It was quite clear from the non-zoomed video that she misplaced her ball. If the caller/emailer could see it on the regular video feed, it was certainly clear to Lexi's naked eye that the ball was played from the wrong position.

Keep in mind that the "zoomed" video was digitally zoomed after the fact. The camera operator did not zoom in to see the infraction. Even if they had, it would have still been clear to the naked eye that the ball was in the wrong spot.

disagree... it would have made DJ Lexi and Nordquists decisions reversed ...... you cannot say with certainty on any of these that the ball moves, the sand is touched or that the mark isnt "in resonable distance" to the original mark with the naked eye and without slowing it down or rewinding.... thats what it now says.... You cant say that in your original watcing of lexi that you said " oh man that ball isnt near where it was originally" i have it on DVR ad have watched it in real tme at least 40 times... showing others etc.. you cant tell... the video we see later is much enhanced and slowed way down...

Fantastic decision indeed.

Argonne69 · April 25, 2017

not until after you know it happened.. Im certain the caller was trolling for a violation and watching in slow mo... other wise why wait till the nest day? to impose max penalty.. it was deliberately done that way.. and it isnt right .... glad the pressure has gotten to the USGA....

Have you never heard of a DVR? Lot's of people watch delayed coverage of golf, especially the first three rounds. Maybe the person watched in the late evening, or early the next morning. Does the LPGA have a 24 hour hotline where infractions can be reported at 1 am?

DVR isnt real time.... clearly mentions naked eye without the advent of rewind, slow mo, or zoom.. you really think the caller watched it once without going back?

If it wasn't noticeable, there would be no need to rewind? You think there are arm chair officials rewinding every shot to look for infractions? Clearly someone with an eye for the rules, possibly a rules official themselves, spotted it while watching it at normal speeds on a DVR, aka time shifted. No zoom. No rewind. No slow mo. The key was the disappearance, and reappearance of the marking coin. Now you don't see it. Now you do.

Argonne69 · April 25, 2017

not until after you know it happened.. Im certain the caller was trolling for a violation and watching in slow mo... other wise why wait till the nest day? to impose max penalty.. it was deliberately done that way.. and it isnt right .... glad the pressure has gotten to the USGA....

Have you never heard of a DVR? Lot's of people watch delayed coverage of golf, especially the first three rounds. Maybe the person watched in the late evening, or early the next morning. Does the LPGA have a 24 hour hotline where infractions can be reported at 1 am?

DVR isnt real time.... clearly mentions naked eye without the advent of rewind, slow mo, or zoom.. you really think the caller watched it once without going back?

It doesn't even matter, it still doesn't solve the issue of EQUALITY. Some players are on tv FAR MORE than others. So even if it can be detected by the naked eye on television, is it fair that 70% of the field can't be penalized in the same way because no one else will ever see their round? Ludacris

Is it fair that a player gets penalized because they commit an infraction when a ref is looking directly at them, but their playing partner gets away with one because the official was looking away at the moment? There is no way one can have live eyes on every shot for every player. In the course of a tournament, there are ~30,000 shots taken by all players over the course of four rounds.

MtlJeff · April 25, 2017

I wish they just wouldn't allow call ins from fans period, but anything that makes these decisions less of a sideshow is a good start

farmer · April 25, 2017

Don't see how this would have applied to Lexi's situation. It was quite clear from the non-zoomed video that she misplaced her ball. If the caller/emailer could see it on the regular video feed, it was certainly clear to Lexi's naked eye that the ball was played from the wrong position.

Keep in mind that the "zoomed" video was digitally zoomed after the fact. The camera operator did not zoom in to see the infraction. Even if they had, it would have still been clear to the naked eye that the ball was in the wrong spot.

disagree... it would have made DJ Lexi and Nordquists decisions reversed ...... you cannot say with certainty on any of these that the ball moves, the sand is touched or that the mark isnt "in resonable distance" to the original mark with the naked eye and without slowing it down or rewinding.... thats what it now says.... You cant say that in your original watcing of lexi that you said " oh man that ball isnt near where it was originally" i have it on DVR ad have watched it in real tme at least 40 times... showing others etc.. you cant tell... the video we see later is much enhanced and slowed way down...

My experience as well. Even knowing when and where to look, I can't see the mark.

Argonne69 · April 25, 2017

Very good decision.

I disagree. It's better but not the answer. They need to ban people from emailing and calling from their couch. It's ridiculous. Like many other issues I think they wiffed on this one. Just to add insult to injury they never admitted how unfair they were to Lexi and they quoted Suzanne petterson's bunker shot instead. Also, no mention of the DJ debacle but I guess he won anyway so no harm no foul? If we're only calling things the naked eye can see, can't we go off the naked eye of the players, caddies and rule officials?

Wrong - Wrong - and Wrong

There was no unfairness in the Lexi ruling. The rules were applied exactly as they should have been.

The bunker incident was Anna Norqvist. This new decision may have helped her.

Dustin Johnson called the movement of the ball himself, asked for a ruling, and it was determined that he caused the ball to move.

You're joking. No unfairness? You're calling Lexi a cheater and agreeing that she knowingly signed her scorecard after cheating? Do you really think she did that intentionally? As if she knows the cameras aren't all over her and she's about to win her second major? As if the 2 inch difference gave her an edge? I can keep going. At the least you should think the two stroke penalty for improper carding was b/s. And once again it's the way it was handled....poorly

If it may have helped norqvist than I can't be "wrong"

It was the way DJ ball moving was handled ..not the infraction. I never said the rule was stupid, even though it was.

Lexi has played in ~140 professional tournaments. She has very likely marked, lifted, and placed over 10,000 balls on the green during regulation play. It's rather straightforward. Mark. Lift. Place. Juniors do it. College golfers do it. Professionals do it. You really believe that this in this one case her brain completely checked out, and in the 2.3 seconds it took her to lift the ball she forgot where she had lifted it from? Sorry, but I'm not buying it.

At the end of the day it doesn't matter. Her intention is not a factor in the application of the rule. If there was any evidence that she did it on purpose she would have been DQ'd.

hebsan · April 25, 2017

I didn't read the article. And yes I mixed up Suzanne and Anna. Are you going to phone into wrx and get me banned from the site ? ...won't cost me a major.

Hey they're both Scandinavians, easy enough to confuse them, although Suzanne would have raised holy hell if the sand incident happened to her.

Shilgy · April 25, 2017

The DJ situation.. he called a rules official over.. the official, DJ and westwood agreed on a ruling.. end of story...

Lexi.. cards were signed.. end of story..

So you are in favor then of golf being like other sports? See what you can get away with? I am not saying Lexi was intentional but it sure was sloppy and not a "reasonable" replacement of the ball.

North Texas · April 25, 2017

not until after you know it happened.. Im certain the caller was trolling for a violation and watching in slow mo... other wise why wait till the nest day? to impose max penalty.. it was deliberately done that way.. and it isnt right .... glad the pressure has gotten to the USGA....

Have you never heard of a DVR? Lot's of people watch delayed coverage of golf, especially the first three rounds. Maybe the person watched in the late evening, or early the next morning. Does the LPGA have a 24 hour hotline where infractions can be reported at 1 am?

DVR isnt real time.... clearly mentions naked eye without the advent of rewind, slow mo, or zoom.. you really think the caller watched it once without going back?

If it wasn't noticeable, there would be no need to rewind? You think there are arm chair officials rewinding every shot to look for infractions? Clearly someone with an eye for the rules, possibly a rules official themselves, spotted it while watching it at normal speeds on a DVR, aka time shifted. No zoom. No rewind. No slow mo.

Or clearly, someone close to the action, noticed something and after searching for the "right person" found someone high enough on the food chain to look at it who then notified the LPGA, Could easily explain the timing/delay in it being reported. And it's very possible that this "someone close to the action" stood to benefit from it or had some other motive. Paying attention to who and who hasn't come out in support of Lexi could possibly be a clue as to who "someone close to the action" is.

Argonne69 · April 25, 2017

If it wasn't noticeable, there would be no need to rewind? You think there are arm chair officials rewinding every shot to look for infractions? Clearly someone with an eye for the rules, possibly a rules official themselves, spotted it while watching it at normal speeds on a DVR, aka time shifted. No zoom. No rewind. No slow mo.

Or clearly, someone close to the action, noticed something and after searching for the "right person" found someone high enough on the food chain to look at it who then notified the LPGA, Could easily explain the timing/delay in it being reported. And it's very possible that this "someone close to the action" stood to benefit from it or had some other motive. Paying attention to who and who hasn't come out in support of Lexi could possibly be a clue as to who "someone close to the action" is.

Lol. Conspiracy theories now? Colonel Mustard in the Library with the wrench? Las Vegas bookie?

The simple fact is that if Lexi properly marks her ball like she's done over 10,000 times this whole issue doesn't exist. Remember that when you're in contention at a major. There are eyes everywhere.

williamsnrb · April 25, 2017

It's refreshing to see this decision. Good on you, USGA.

heavy_hitter · April 25, 2017

USGA and R&A has once again dropped the ball once again. This ruling needed more.

heavy_hitter · April 25, 2017

Very good decision.

I disagree. It's better but not the answer. They need to ban people from emailing and calling from their couch. It's ridiculous. Like many other issues I think they wiffed on this one. Just to add insult to injury they never admitted how unfair they were to Lexi and they quoted Suzanne petterson's bunker shot instead. Also, no mention of the DJ debacle but I guess he won anyway so no harm no foul? If we're only calling things the naked eye can see, can't we go off the naked eye of the players, caddies and rule officials?

Wrong - Wrong - and Wrong

There was no unfairness in the Lexi ruling. The rules were applied exactly as they should have been.

The bunker incident was Anna Norqvist. This new decision may have helped her.

Dustin Johnson called the movement of the ball himself, asked for a ruling, and it was determined that he caused the ball to move.

You're joking. No unfairness? You're calling Lexi a cheater and agreeing that she knowingly signed her scorecard after cheating? Do you really think she did that intentionally? As if she knows the cameras aren't all over her and she's about to win her second major? As if the 2 inch difference gave her an edge? I can keep going. At the least you should think the two stroke penalty for improper carding was b/s. And once again it's the way it was handled....poorly

If it may have helped norqvist than I can't be "wrong"

It was the way DJ ball moving was handled ..not the infraction. I never said the rule was stupid, even though it was.

Lexi has played in ~140 professional tournaments. She has very likely marked, lifted, and placed over 10,000 balls on the green during regulation play. It's rather straightforward. Mark. Lift. Place. Juniors do it. College golfers do it. Professionals do it. You really believe that this in this one case her brain completely checked out, and in the 2.3 seconds it took her to lift the ball she forgot where she had lifted it from? Sorry, but I'm not buying it.

At the end of the day it doesn't matter. Her intention is not a factor in the application of the rule. If there was any evidence that she did it on purpose she would have been DQ'd.

Seriously, you are out there just a tad.

Had she backed off the mark and then replaced her ball, no one would have ever known. I couldn't tell from the video until it was enhanced and I have a 70" screen.

Until every player in an event can have every swing, every ball mark, every single move scrutinized then no video of anything should be used. This will never happen so no video evidence should be used to call a penalty.

Once a player finishes the hole and tees it up on the next hole, no penalty should be able to be enforced going forward.

Every round someone marks there ball they do not put it back into the same exact spot unless it is luck. It is virtually impossible to do.

If I was a gambling man, I would sit from home and watch every player going against my bet to try to find an infraction to get other players penalized. For this very reason, arm chairs rules officials, call ins, emails should NEVER be allowed.

DatSliceDoe · April 25, 2017

At least the USGA did something.

King_Slender · April 25, 2017

Lol. Conspiracy theories now? Colonel Mustard in the Library with the wrench? Las Vegas bookie?

The simple fact is that if Lexi properly marks her ball like she's done over 10,000 times this whole issue doesn't exist. Remember that when you're in contention at a major. There are eyes everywhere.

How long after the end of a round/tournament should an infraction be allowed to be assessed (to use your Olympics analogy)?

NiagaraGolfGirl · April 25, 2017

Very good decision.

I disagree. It's better but not the answer. They need to ban people from emailing and calling from their couch. It's ridiculous. Like many other issues I think they wiffed on this one. Just to add insult to injury they never admitted how unfair they were to Lexi and they quoted Suzanne petterson's bunker shot instead. Also, no mention of the DJ debacle but I guess he won anyway so no harm no foul? If we're only calling things the naked eye can see, can't we go off the naked eye of the players, caddies and rule officials?

Agree entirely. At the very least they can't be looking at issues from the day before. A player needs to be given the chance to sign a correct scorecard.

What happens when the "day before" was a few hours ago? Due to delays, rounds are often finished the next day, with the following round started immediately.

Then in your scenario before they sign the card - whenever that is.

Doyle Hargraves · April 25, 2017

There is an easy way around this. TV should stick to showing golf shots. No broadcasting of penalty drops and no zooming in while the ball is on the green (or anywhere else) for any reason.

Argonne69 · April 25, 2017

Lol. Conspiracy theories now? Colonel Mustard in the Library with the wrench? Las Vegas bookie?

The simple fact is that if Lexi properly marks her ball like she's done over 10,000 times this whole issue doesn't exist. Remember that when you're in contention at a major. There are eyes everywhere.

How long after the end of a round/tournament should an infraction be allowed to be assessed (to use your Olympics analogy)?

If it was deemed intentional, there is no statute of limitations. That's the nuclear option. Of course, it's very difficult to prove a violation was intentional, so the vast majority of tournaments will be settled when the final scorecard is signed.

That said, availability of video is even more important in helping ensure that the rules are followed. The leaderboard knows they are being scrutinized, as one of them will generally come out on top.

Argonne69 · April 25, 2017

There is an easy way around this. TV should stick to showing golf shots. No broadcasting of penalty drops and no zooming in while the ball is on the green (or anywhere else) for any reason.

I definitely agree with you regarding the zoom part. I've always been uncomfortable with the camera zooming in ridiculously close, knowing that they it can possibly catch something the player can't see. Now that the "naked eye" test is part of the rules, there's really no reason to zoom in.

'No issue with penalty drops, other than the fact that they should be showing actual shots somewhere else on the course. Who wants to watch a penalty drop, right Tiger?

Argonne69 · April 25, 2017

Every round someone marks there ball they do not put it back into the same exact spot unless it is luck. It is virtually impossible to do.

99.9% of all golfers replace the ball properly. It does not have to be in the exact spot. The rule requires it to be placed in such a way that the possible position change is not apparent to the eye. In Lexi's case the misplacement was visible from the camera's position behind the green, which means it was absolutely visible to Lexi's eye. The person who saw it noticed it. It was confirmed by multiple officials. Heck, even Lexi admits it was placed incorrectly.

OutBackHack · April 25, 2017

Very good decision.

I disagree. It's better but not the answer. They need to ban people from emailing and calling from their couch. It's ridiculous. Like many other issues I think they wiffed on this one. Just to add insult to injury they never admitted how unfair they were to Lexi and they quoted Suzanne petterson's bunker shot instead. Also, no mention of the DJ debacle but I guess he won anyway so no harm no foul? If we're only calling things the naked eye can see, can't we go off the naked eye of the players, caddies and rule officials?

Agree entirely. At the very least they can't be looking at issues from the day before. A player needs to be given the chance to sign a correct scorecard.

Its a 4 day tournament, why shouldn't something from a previous day or round be brought into question if someone cheated?

Barfolomew · April 25, 2017

Oh snap Mother Ryu gonna crack skulls when her emails bounce back....

whr · April 25, 2017

I wish they just wouldn't allow call ins from fans period, but anything that makes these decisions less of a sideshow is a good start

Yep. Step in the right direction.

Argonne69 · April 25, 2017

Very good decision.

I disagree. It's better but not the answer. They need to ban people from emailing and calling from their couch. It's ridiculous. Like many other issues I think they wiffed on this one. Just to add insult to injury they never admitted how unfair they were to Lexi and they quoted Suzanne petterson's bunker shot instead. Also, no mention of the DJ debacle but I guess he won anyway so no harm no foul? If we're only calling things the naked eye can see, can't we go off the naked eye of the players, caddies and rule officials?

Agree entirely. At the very least they can't be looking at issues from the day before. A player needs to be given the chance to sign a correct scorecard.

Its a 4 day tournament, why shouldn't something from a previous day or round be brought into question if someone cheated?

Actually, it's a 72 hole tournament. It may take 4 days. It might take 5. It might take 3. They might play in twosomes from the 1st tee. They might play in threesomes from split tees. They may repair after the 2nd and third rounds, or they might play in the same group for multiple rounds due to unscheduled delays.

Fundamentally, the winner is the player that shoots the lowest total for 72 holes, penalties included. As far as I'm aware golf has never used a nest-of-N-rounds format.

the bishop · April 25, 2017

Oh snap Mother Ryu gonna crack skulls when her emails bounce back....

hahaha! :rofl:

Argonne69 · April 25, 2017

Oh snap Mother Ryu gonna crack skulls when her emails bounce back....

Lol. Nice try. You sure it wasn't Mother Pettersen? Mrs. Lee? Mother Park? BJ? Their precious daughters were all in the hunt when the penalty was announced.

whr · April 25, 2017

Every round someone marks there ball they do not put it back into the same exact spot unless it is luck. It is virtually impossible to do.

Heck, even Lexi admits it was placed incorrectly.

I recommend going back and watching or reading Lexi's immediate post round interviews. She didn't believe she had remarked her ball incorrectly at the time, which matters more than after the fact under this new rule.

It wasn't until she watched the video of the incident that she said it was done incorrectly.