Effective Immediately, Rules Change to Limit Video Review

[bladehunter]

not until after you know it happened.. Im certain the caller was trolling for a violation and watching in slow mo... other wise why wait till the nest day? to impose max penalty.. it was deliberately done that way.. and it isnt right .... glad the pressure has gotten to the USGA....

[highergr0und]

They must not have gotten their focus group data back on whats worse between having video of evidence of an infraction by a major winner or ripping away a major from someone 12 holes into their final round....

[King_Slender]

Is the tournament still in progress on Sunday afternoon? Do you think the field might like a chance of improving their position knowing that a player violated a rule during the course of the still active tournament?

 

What would you in this scenario: A player makes the cut on the number (let's just say the US Open to make it interesting), rallies on Saturday/Sunday and has a 3 stroke lead going into #18. A call has come in from an infraction Friday afternoon and the player is assessed a 2 stroke penalty. Should the player be DQ'd altogether because they should have missed the cut or are they allowed to win the tournament?

[gmangolf]

lol but to your point it is against the law to profile certain types of drivers... and thats what happens with stars vs the also rans..... the stars are profiled....

 

The lead groups know they are being videoed, and yet they still break the rules. Face it, nobody really gives two sh*ts if the 67th placed player breaks the rules. If they happen to get caught on camera, then they'll be penalized. However, the outcome of the tournament hinges on the play of the lead players. You don't think the NFL refs pay a little more attention to the quarterback?

 

Maybe they do look at the QB instead of looking at their assignments... it'd explain a lot of the poor officiating.

 

The point remains though - you can't call in a hold on the offensive line that occurred in the 2nd quarter and get points taken off the board in the 4th... right? Every other sport is content to let their officials officiate what they see and ignore the passionate please of the fans to call it otherwise. Golf is the only sport that would even consider letting this happen via fans, let alone doing it late in the contest in a way that impacts the outcome.

[Vindog]

Very good decision.

 

I disagree. It's better but not the answer. They need to ban people from emailing and calling from their couch. It's ridiculous. Like many other issues I think they wiffed on this one. Just to add insult to injury they never admitted how unfair they were to Lexi and they quoted Suzanne petterson's bunker shot instead. Also, no mention of the DJ debacle but I guess he won anyway so no harm no foul? If we're only calling things the naked eye can see, can't we go off the naked eye of the players, caddies and rule officials?

 

I'm not sure if you read the article but it wasn't Suzanne Peterson, it was Anna Nordqvist, and there was a whole paragraph on the DJ ruling, even calling it "A foundational subtext"

[Argonne69]

Is the tournament still in progress on Sunday afternoon? Do you think the field might like a chance of improving their position knowing that a player violated a rule during the course of the still active tournament?

 

What would you in this scenario: A player makes the cut on the number (let's just say the US Open to make it interesting), rallies on Saturday/Sunday and has a 3 stroke lead going into #18. A call has come in from an infraction Friday afternoon and the player is assessed a 2 stroke penalty. Should the player be DQ'd altogether because they should have missed the cut or are they allowed to win the tournament?

 

Yup. DQ'd. They didn't earn a spot on the weekend.

 

Heck, on top of that have them write a check for the minimum payout to the players who "missed" the cut because they got it (if applicable).

[KyGolf]

Very good decision.

 

I disagree. It's better but not the answer. They need to ban people from emailing and calling from their couch. It's ridiculous. Like many other issues I think they wiffed on this one. Just to add insult to injury they never admitted how unfair they were to Lexi and they quoted Suzanne petterson's bunker shot instead. Also, no mention of the DJ debacle but I guess he won anyway so no harm no foul? If we're only calling things the naked eye can see, can't we go off the naked eye of the players, caddies and rule officials?

 

Wrong - Wrong - and Wrong

 

 

There was no unfairness in the Lexi ruling. The rules were applied exactly as they should have been.

 

The bunker incident was Anna Norqvist. This new decision may have helped her.

 

Dustin Johnson called the movement of the ball himself, asked for a ruling, and it was determined that he caused the ball to move.

[Doyle Hargraves]

Is the tournament still in progress on Sunday afternoon? Do you think the field might like a chance of improving their position knowing that a player violated a rule during the course of the still active tournament?

 

There needs to be finality at the conclusion of each round. Once the card is signed, the round is over.

 

With technology being what it is, a player should be able to assume that once the round is over, all reported scores will stand. No do overs.

 

In answer to your question, the field will be 100% against Thursday rule infractions being called in and penalties enforced on Sunday.

[Argonne69]

lol but to your point it is against the law to profile certain types of drivers... and thats what happens with stars vs the also rans..... the stars are profiled....

 

The lead groups know they are being videoed, and yet they still break the rules. Face it, nobody really gives two sh*ts if the 67th placed player breaks the rules. If they happen to get caught on camera, then they'll be penalized. However, the outcome of the tournament hinges on the play of the lead players. You don't think the NFL refs pay a little more attention to the quarterback?

 

Maybe they do look at the QB instead of looking at their assignments... it'd explain a lot of the poor officiating.

 

The point remains though - you can't call in a hold on the offensive line that occurred in the 2nd quarter and get points taken off the board in the 4th... right? Every other sport is content to let their officials officiate what they see and ignore the passionate please of the fans to call it otherwise. Golf is the only sport that would even consider letting this happen via fans, let alone doing it late in the contest in a way that impacts the outcome.

 

So, the Olympics have never stripped a medal away because of doping? The Tour de France?

[Argonne69]

Is the tournament still in progress on Sunday afternoon? Do you think the field might like a chance of improving their position knowing that a player violated a rule during the course of the still active tournament?

 

There needs to be finality at the conclusion of each round. Once the card is signed, the round is over.

 

With technology being what it is, a player should be able to assume that once the round is over, all reported scores will stand. No do overs.

 

In answer to your question, the field will be 100% against Thursday rule infractions being called in and penalties enforced on Sunday.

 

Why is a round important? It's a 72 hole stroke play event, not a best-of-four-round event. Heck, if courses had 72 holes, they'd likely play a single round over the course of four days.

[King_Slender]

 

 

Dustin Johnson called the movement of the ball himself, asked for a ruling, and it was determined that he caused the ball to move.

 

Actually, Westwood said DJ didn't make it move and the rule official in the group agreed with DJ and Westwood. Only after video review did the USGO overrule the 3 people who were within 15 feet of the actual "infraction."

[Forged4ever]

Fairways Greens & Big Bro 4ever My Friends?

RP

[Argonne69]

not until after you know it happened.. Im certain the caller was trolling for a violation and watching in slow mo... other wise why wait till the nest day? to impose max penalty.. it was deliberately done that way.. and it isnt right .... glad the pressure has gotten to the USGA....

 

Have you never heard of a DVR? Lot's of people watch delayed coverage of golf, especially the first three rounds. Maybe the person watched in the late evening, or early the next morning. Does the LPGA have a 24 hour hotline where infractions can be reported at 1 am?

[Vindog]

Dustin Johnson called the movement of the ball himself, asked for a ruling, and it was determined that he caused the ball to move.

 

Actually, Westwood said DJ didn't make it move and the rule official in the group agreed with DJ and Westwood. Only after video review did the USGO overrule the 3 people who were within 15 feet of the actual "infraction."

 

Well, Westy said that he didn't MAKE IT MOVE, not that it didn't move. What the Officials used video review for was whether DJ took an action that may have caused it to move.

[melo]

The USGA is a joke. Why do they feel the need to replace terrible, confusing rules with just as bad, and even more confusing rules.

 

Just stop people from calling in penalties, and stop penalizing anyone after the round has ended. That's it.

[dave412]

The DJ situation.. he called a rules official over.. the official, DJ and westwood agreed on a ruling.. end of story...

 

Lexi.. cards were signed.. end of story..

[legitimategolf]

For pro golfers who like to shave millimeters off putts or improve lies by a few hair-widths, today is a good day.

 

For basement-dwelling home viewers who like to catch their favorite golfers' opponents in the act of rule-breaking, and then strategically wait until the most inopportune time to report it and derail those players' chances at winning a major championship, today is a bad day.

 

I'm not sure that any real, substantive problems were solved today.

[bladehunter]

lol but to your point it is against the law to profile certain types of drivers... and thats what happens with stars vs the also rans..... the stars are profiled....

 

The lead groups know they are being videoed, and yet they still break the rules. Face it, nobody really gives two sh*ts if the 67th placed player breaks the rules. If they happen to get caught on camera, then they'll be penalized. However, the outcome of the tournament hinges on the play of the lead players. You don't think the NFL refs pay a little more attention to the quarterback?

 

Maybe they do look at the QB instead of looking at their assignments... it'd explain a lot of the poor officiating.

 

The point remains though - you can't call in a hold on the offensive line that occurred in the 2nd quarter and get points taken off the board in the 4th... right? Every other sport is content to let their officials officiate what they see and ignore the passionate please of the fans to call it otherwise. Golf is the only sport that would even consider letting this happen via fans, let alone doing it late in the contest in a way that impacts the outcome.

 

So, the Olympics have never stripped a medal away because of doping? The Tour de France?

 

 

lets hope golf never sinks to the level of teh olympic comitte or FIFA.... i mean good lord man... were talking about the largest crooks on earth !

[KyGolf]

Dustin Johnson called the movement of the ball himself, asked for a ruling, and it was determined that he caused the ball to move.

 

Actually, Westwood said DJ didn't make it move and the rule official in the group agreed with DJ and Westwood. Only after video review did the USGO overrule the 3 people who were within 15 feet of the actual "infraction."

 

 

The rules official on scene accepted Johnson's claim that he did not cause the ball to move. All the video revue did was determine that Johnson had grounded his club dangerously close to the ball right before it moved. After that it was a judgment call. Really could have gone either way.

[bladehunter]

not until after you know it happened.. Im certain the caller was trolling for a violation and watching in slow mo... other wise why wait till the nest day? to impose max penalty.. it was deliberately done that way.. and it isnt right .... glad the pressure has gotten to the USGA....

 

Have you never heard of a DVR? Lot's of people watch delayed coverage of golf, especially the first three rounds. Maybe the person watched in the late evening, or early the next morning. Does the LPGA have a 24 hour hotline where infractions can be reported at 1 am?

 

 

 

DVR isnt real time.... clearly mentions naked eye without the advent of rewind, slow mo, or zoom.. you really think the caller watched it once without going back?

[melo]

not until after you know it happened.. Im certain the caller was trolling for a violation and watching in slow mo... other wise why wait till the nest day? to impose max penalty.. it was deliberately done that way.. and it isnt right .... glad the pressure has gotten to the USGA....

 

Have you never heard of a DVR? Lot's of people watch delayed coverage of golf, especially the first three rounds. Maybe the person watched in the late evening, or early the next morning. Does the LPGA have a 24 hour hotline where infractions can be reported at 1 am?

 

 

 

DVR isnt real time.... clearly mentions naked eye without the advent of rewind, slow mo, or zoom.. you really think the caller watched it once without going back?

 

It doesn't even matter, it still doesn't solve the issue of EQUALITY. Some players are on tv FAR MORE than others. So even if it can be detected by the naked eye on television, is it fair that 70% of the field can't be penalized in the same way because no one else will ever see their round? Ludacris

[KyGolf]

Equality is if you don't break a rule you won't get penalized. No matter where you are in the field.

[tdk8180]

I think what is dumb is they can change the rules this quickly.

 

Also, I think we should go back in time and review all the tapes and start retroactively changing the outcomes of past tournaments as well. This is common practice in the realm of climate change as there have been many retroactive adjustments to recorded weather data from 100 years ago to fit the narrative that humans are causing global warming. Personally, I would like to see Rich Beem's PGA Championship somehow revoked, perhaps someone, maybe the government, will give me a grant to fund this research so me and others can find something Rich Beem did on tape to fit the narrative of a world without a Rich Beem PGA Championship victory..........absurd, right?

[SeaOfGreen10]

Equality is if you don't break a rule you won't get penalized. No matter where you are in the field.

 

So if NFL refs only looked for penalties on one team, that would be equality?

 

There will never be complete equality in golf, but ignoring the pros and cons of having a bigger following doesn't make sense.

[TobesSC]

Is the tournament still in progress on Sunday afternoon? Do you think the field might like a chance of improving their position knowing that a player violated a rule during the course of the still active tournament?

 

There needs to be finality at the conclusion of each round. Once the card is signed, the round is over.

 

With technology being what it is, a player should be able to assume that once the round is over, all reported scores will stand. No do overs.

 

In answer to your question, the field will be 100% against Thursday rule infractions being called in and penalties enforced on Sunday.

 

Why is a round important? It's a 72 hole stroke play event, not a best-of-four-round event. Heck, if courses had 72 holes, they'd likely play a single round over the course of four days.

 

It's very important. Take the Lexi incident, don't you think if players knew before they teed off for the final round that they was 4 shot penalty applied to the leader that they would have likely played their round differently?

[North Texas]

Don't see how this would have applied to Lexi's situation. It was quite clear from the non-zoomed video that she misplaced her ball. If the caller/emailer could see it on the regular video feed, it was certainly clear to Lexi's naked eye that the ball was played from the wrong position.

 

Keep in mind that the "zoomed" video was digitally zoomed after the fact. The camera operator did not zoom in to see the infraction. Even if they had, it would have still been clear to the naked eye that the ball was in the wrong spot.

 

 

disagree... it would have made DJ Lexi and Nordquists decisions reversed ...... you cannot say with certainty on any of these that the ball moves, the sand is touched or that the mark isnt "in resonable distance" to the original mark with the naked eye and without slowing it down or rewinding.... thats what it now says.... You cant say that in your original watcing of lexi that you said " oh man that ball isnt near where it was originally" i have it on DVR ad have watched it in real tme at least 40 times... showing others etc.. you cant tell... the video we see later is much enhanced and slowed way down...

 

This

 

You absolutely cannot see anything out of the ordinary when watching in real-time unless you know to be looking for it. And, even then, you had better be watching real close or you still won't see it.

[BenHoganSlam1953]

Too little - too late ... why do they wait until the damage is done and history twisted before they get off their collective behinds and take responsibility and make changes.

They (rules keepers) seem to care more about public opinion that the game of golf ... they are afraid of their own shadows I suspect.

[North Texas]

not until after you know it happened.. Im certain the caller was trolling for a violation and watching in slow mo... other wise why wait till the nest day? to impose max penalty.. it was deliberately done that way.. and it isnt right .... glad the pressure has gotten to the USGA....

 

Have you never heard of a DVR? Lot's of people watch delayed coverage of golf, especially the first three rounds. Maybe the person watched in the late evening, or early the next morning. Does the LPGA have a 24 hour hotline where infractions can be reported at 1 am?

 

 

 

DVR isnt real time.... clearly mentions naked eye without the advent of rewind, slow mo, or zoom.. you really think the caller watched it once without going back?

 

Like I said before, someone just casually watching even on DVR isn't going to notice anything out of the ordinary. No way. And that's why I think there's more to the story. The timing of the whole thing strongly suggests that someone was alerted to look for this.

[widow-maker]

To me, if it's brought to the rules committee attention before the player signs their scorecard, then they can review it on a monitor and inform the player before they sign their scorecard. Once they sign their scorecard, at a minimum, they should never be penalized 2 strokes for signing an incorrect scorecard. If they want to amend it because something came up, then I think there are circumstances that might warrant that. But a player shouldn't be assessed 2 strokes the following day when they didn't have the opportunity to review all facts before signing their card. So, in Lexi's case, she'd get the 2 strokes for improperly marking her ball, but not the 2 strokes for signing an incorrect card, because the officials weren't timely with their ruling.

[tap in birdie]

Very good decision.

 

I disagree. It's better but not the answer. They need to ban people from emailing and calling from their couch. It's ridiculous. Like many other issues I think they wiffed on this one. Just to add insult to injury they never admitted how unfair they were to Lexi and they quoted Suzanne petterson's bunker shot instead. Also, no mention of the DJ debacle but I guess he won anyway so no harm no foul? If we're only calling things the naked eye can see, can't we go off the naked eye of the players, caddies and rule officials?

 

Wrong - Wrong - and Wrong

 

 

There was no unfairness in the Lexi ruling. The rules were applied exactly as they should have been.

 

The bunker incident was Anna Norqvist. This new decision may have helped her.

 

Dustin Johnson called the movement of the ball himself, asked for a ruling, and it was determined that he caused the ball to move.

 

You're joking. No unfairness? You're calling Lexi a cheater and agreeing that she knowingly signed her scorecard after cheating? Do you really think she did that intentionally? As if she knows the cameras aren't all over her and she's about to win her second major? As if the 2 inch difference gave her an edge? I can keep going. At the least you should think the two stroke penalty for improper carding was b/s. And once again it's the way it was handled....poorly

 

If it may have helped norqvist than I can't be "wrong"

 

It was the way DJ ball moving was handled ..not the infraction. I never said the rule was stupid, even though it was.