Spieth and his struggles

[UCBananaboy]

I don't know why it's so hard for people (let alone golfers on a golf forum) to understand that sheer difficulty and variance in golf.

 

Here are the results of four different Top 10 OWGR pros in Majors since Spieth's amazing 2015 season.

 

Player 1:

 

MC

MC

T46

T33

T11

T5

 

 

Player 2:

 

T10

T8

T22

2

T22

MC

 

Player 3:

 

T2

T37

T30

T13

T11

T35

 

Player 4:

 

T10

MC

T5

MC

T7

MC

 

Only one player has consistently been around every weekend and that's Player 3 - Jordan Spieth.

[williamsnrb]

The hard thing for Spieth is that he isn't super long off the tee- who is long off the tee- Dustin Johnson, Rory McIlroy, and Jason Day. For Spieth to win he has to give up 20-50 yards. So if one of the other three get on a Putting streak it's over for Spieth - case and point Jason Day at the PGA.

 

I would argue that you can sustain Putting prowess...Tiger Woods went from 1997-2008 making those putts..Jack did it. Bobby Jones did it.

 

The difference between Tiger and Spieth is that Tiger was out driving most of his competition as well which takes a lot of pressure of the putter. When guys like Rory, Day, DJ, Koepka and Rahm are on, Spieth needs to be near perfect with the rest of his game to make up the strokes he's giving up off the tee.

 

Also, everyone was intimidated by Tiger. Today, no one is intimated of anyone.

[knock it close]

6) but his driving and putting is a bit of a concern, people give him zero credit for being an elite ball striker and overrate his putting, in 2015 he ranked 4th in SG tee-green than he did SG putting (9th). 2015 was a historic year, the list of back to back major winners is very short so I think holding him to that standard is unfair but I think he's close to being back able to be one of the favorites week in week out.

[Scooterboy59]

I think back to the Open he should have won.

[duffer987]

#1 & #6 - That was an amazing 1/2 season of putting and he fully maximized his results because of it.

 

Spieth (minus the putting #s) is still having a good season statistically and pretty darn good results wise. There's no reason he cannot have a Furyk like career or maybe even better.

 

Of course he has to gut it out with golf, due to his lack of athleticism. If he was DJ, Brooks, or some of the others, he could quit golf in frustration and go be an all-star 3rd baseman for the Rangers or the 6th man for the Mavericks.

[dlygrisse]

#1 & #6 - That was an amazing 1/2 season of putting and he fully maximized his results because of it.

 

Spieth (minus the putting #s) is still having a good season statistically and pretty darn good results wise. There's no reason he cannot have a Furyk like career or maybe even better.

 

Of course he has to gut it out with golf, due to his lack of athleticism. If he was DJ, Brooks, or some of the others, he could quit golf in frustration and go be an all-star 3rd baseman for the Rangers or the 6th man for the Mavericks.

 

Yes, but is he more jacked than Rory?

[knock it close]

#1 & #6 - That was an amazing 1/2 season of putting and he fully maximized his results because of it.

 

Spieth (minus the putting #s) is still having a good season statistically and pretty darn good results wise. There's no reason he cannot have a Furyk like career or maybe even better.

 

Of course he has to gut it out with golf, due to his lack of athleticism. If he was DJ, Brooks, or some of the others, he could quit golf in frustration and go be an all-star 3rd baseman for the Rangers or the 6th man for the Mavericks.

Eh his career might already be better than Jim's, its atleast close already, he'll far surpass him (9 with 2 majors for Jordan 17 with 1 for Jim)

[salmon1a]

Team Spieth have always been great at course management but they appear to be over-thinking things right now. Also their putting has cooled off.

[Andrew Bond of Glencoe]

Caught lightning in a bottle one season. He will never repeat that level of success again. Probably will have a nice career when his putting heats up from time to time, but won't remotely match even Phil Mickelson career wise. Amazed he does anything with that cut off chicken wing swing..

 

The chicken wing does stop the hook. When I get into hooking my driver I don't pull a full chicken wing but I certainly use it to keep the ball in the fairway.

[disco111]

An observational overview on JS.................His chasing the elusive long ball is and will be his achilles heel, so to speak. He has made the driver his boogie or rather bogey man and it is definitively his or will be his downfall, as far as being a major winner again. I forget the tournament not so long ago, where he was in the hunt and then proceeded to hook 2 balls OB and then the 3rd into the right rough or trees. A total physical and mental collapse of his swing. He started out in this game with what I would call a Hogan mindset with accompanying swing, which would be his driver fade, which like Hogan (who used to hook the ball badly), took the left side of the golf course out of play. Playing shots that are pretty much repeatable and with total confidence, will almost alway bear fruit and good scores. It certainly reduces the mental stress of the game and in general, makes for a comfortable round. Jordan has gone in the opposite direction and in doing so has / is creating more problems with his self degrading vocalizations. Everything about his game now is under pressure and it's all because of the driver. He needs to reboot and forget about long and start playing smart, like he first started with................

[gvogel]

I am a huge fan of Spieth but 2015 was an outlier season for him. He's not athletically gifted like some of the guys on Tour and mentally I believe he's succumbing to the pressure of expectations and inability to close the 2016 Masters.

 

He thrived being a nobody that was dominating golf in 2015, but in 2016 the spotlight was on him and that's a lot more pressure to play with. In 2015 he played faster, was more confident and lacked the indecision we see from him today. Today he's worried about making every shot perfect and I know first hand that it's impossible to play golf well with that mentality even if he's a pro and I'm a 17 handicap hack.

 

We're now seeing the same pressure affecting him on the putting greens. The rest of his game is struggling and placing even more pressure on his putting which is making him question his reads.

 

Watch a match from 2015 and one from this season and it's like watching two different people in terms of his pre shot routine and conversations with his caddie.

 

He's not as athletically gifted as some of the guys he plays against. As the putter cools off, it will be difficult for him to win majors.

 

The press put a lot of pressure on his shoulders. They wanted him to be the next Tiger Woods.

[hdr_ric]

The hard thing for Spieth is that he isn't super long off the tee- who is long off the tee- Dustin Johnson, Rory McIlroy, and Jason Day. For Spieth to win he has to give up 20-50 yards. So if one of the other three get on a Putting streak it's over for Spieth - case and point Jason Day at the PGA.

 

I would argue that you can sustain Putting prowess...Tiger Woods went from 1997-2008 making those putts..Jack did it. Bobby Jones did it.

 

The difference between Tiger and Spieth is that Tiger was out driving most of his competition as well which takes a lot of pressure of the putter. When guys like Rory, Day, DJ, Koepka and Rahm are on, Spieth needs to be near perfect with the rest of his game to make up the strokes he's giving up off the tee.

 

The difference between tiger and spieth is that tiger was just a s***-ton better.

[hdr_ric]

Caught lightning in a bottle one season. He will never repeat that level of success again. Probably will have a nice career when his putting heats up from time to time, but won't remotely match even Phil Mickelson career wise. Amazed he does anything with that cut off chicken wing swing..

 

I don't think any of the current guys will match Phil.

[dlygrisse]

Caught lightning in a bottle one season. He will never repeat that level of success again. Probably will have a nice career when his putting heats up from time to time, but won't remotely match even Phil Mickelson career wise. Amazed he does anything with that cut off chicken wing swing..

 

The chicken wing does stop the hook. When I get into hooking my driver I don't pull a full chicken wing but I certainly use it to keep the ball in the fairway.

Similar to Arnie's helicopter finish. It's not something I would try to "fix" for the sake of looking pretty, only if it was a by product of a fundamental change.

[johnseg]

Looking at Spieth's putting stats is interesting. Strokes Gained he is ranked 40. When you look at his distances he ranked 16 over 25', 39 from 15-25', 150 from 10-15', 114 from 5-10' and 121 from inside 5'. His 5-15' putting is were he seems to be struggling. How much is he struggling you can decide. He is still scoring well and that is all you can really do.

 

All of these guys are so good that all it takes is one guy in the field to put it together for4 days and he wins the tournament. Today I will always take the field over any player.

[dlygrisse]

Caught lightning in a bottle one season. He will never repeat that level of success again. Probably will have a nice career when his putting heats up from time to time, but won't remotely match even Phil Mickelson career wise. Amazed he does anything with that cut off chicken wing swing..

 

I don't think any of the current guys will match Phil.

 

That's probably true, however I could see Rory winning more majors, he has plenty of years to do it. BUUUT, he doesn't seem real motivated at the moment, he might be done winning them.

[rblmp32]

1.

 

Someone may never duplicate the amount of long putts he made that year..it just wasn't sustainable..period. Nothing else has really changed.

 

Agreed. He made everything inside 30 feet it seemed.

 

I would argue that you can sustain Putting prowess...Tiger Woods went from 1997-2008 making those putts..Jack did it. Bobby Jones did it.

He putted as well as prime Tiger. Problem is it's hard to keep it going long term. Curious to see how it plays out for him going forward.

 

Yes and no. Tiger made everything inside 5 feet. And if he had to have a putt, it was going in. For example, the amazing putts in the US Open in '08 and the President Cup putts against Ernie back in '03 (think it was '03). Speith was making crap from 15ft and out constantly. Tiger never did that. At least not consistently like Speith was. Maybe in the '00 US Open which by his own account was one of his best putting weeks.

 

 

The difference between tiger and spieth is that tiger was just a s***-ton better.

 

This. Speith is a great player and a phenomenal putter. But he can't hold a candle to Tiger's talent.

[dlygrisse]

Looking at Spieth's putting stats is interesting. Strokes Gained he is ranked 40. When you look at his distances he ranked 16 over 25', 39 from 15-25', 150 from 10-15', 114 from 5-10' and 121 from inside 5'. His 5-15' putting is were he seems to be struggling. How much is he struggling you can decide. He is still scoring well and that is all you can really do.

 

All of these guys are so good that all it takes is one guy in the field to put it together for4 days and he wins the tournament. Today I will always take the field over any player.

 

Conversely all it takes is a couple of misses from short range to knock you way down the rankings. In reality they are all really bunched together. Does he still look at the hole when he putts the short ones? That always seemed to help him in the past.

[duffer987]

#1 & #6 - That was an amazing 1/2 season of putting and he fully maximized his results because of it.

 

Spieth (minus the putting #s) is still having a good season statistically and pretty darn good results wise. There's no reason he cannot have a Furyk like career or maybe even better.

 

Of course he has to gut it out with golf, due to his lack of athleticism. If he was DJ, Brooks, or some of the others, he could quit golf in frustration and go be an all-star 3rd baseman for the Rangers or the 6th man for the Mavericks.

Eh his career might already be better than Jim's, its atleast close already, he'll far surpass him (9 with 2 majors for Jordan 17 with 1 for Jim)

 

Agreed. Majors definitely count more. Off the top of my head I was trying to think of someone with 20ish career PGA Tour wins and that was who came to mind.

Maybe he does make 30, but I think that'd be a stretch.

[jslane57]

Golf is hard. If he is missing putts, Kevin Durant isn't there to take over. I think there is maybe an unlisted factor. All the kids that were his equals growing up are now out of college and playing great. His first couple years he didn't have to complete with JT or Rahm. He was just a young kid with unlimited potential doing amazing things. Now it is crystal clear that there are other young players who can really move the ball. I'm certainly not concerned for Jordan, he will figure it out, probably by the time he is like 25 years old. Lol. And on those rare days where he is making every long putt, he seems to have a little of that intimidation factor that Tiger once had. The other greats of today know they can't putt like Jordan, heck your new US Open champion putts with the whiskey finger...

[knock it close]

#1 & #6 - That was an amazing 1/2 season of putting and he fully maximized his results because of it.

 

Spieth (minus the putting #s) is still having a good season statistically and pretty darn good results wise. There's no reason he cannot have a Furyk like career or maybe even better.

 

Of course he has to gut it out with golf, due to his lack of athleticism. If he was DJ, Brooks, or some of the others, he could quit golf in frustration and go be an all-star 3rd baseman for the Rangers or the 6th man for the Mavericks.

Eh his career might already be better than Jim's, its atleast close already, he'll far surpass him (9 with 2 majors for Jordan 17 with 1 for Jim)

 

Agreed. Majors definitely count more. Off the top of my head I was trying to think of someone with 20ish career PGA Tour wins and that was who came to mind.

Maybe he does make 30, but I think that'd be a stretch.

Somewhere between Trevino and Floyd is fair and realistic I think

[imakaveli]

[bladehunter]

Caught lightning in a bottle one season. He will never repeat that level of success again. Probably will have a nice career when his putting heats up from time to time, but won't remotely match even Phil Mickelson career wise. Amazed he does anything with that cut off chicken wing swing..

 

The chicken wing does stop the hook. When I get into hooking my driver I don't pull a full chicken wing but I certainly use it to keep the ball in the fairway.

Similar to Arnie's helicopter finish. It's not something I would try to "fix" for the sake of looking pretty, only if it was a by product of a fundamental change.

 

 

exactly.. i laugh at the people who gripe about his chicken wing... its nothing more than a handsy players reaction to where the face is at impact.... those same hands are why his shortgame is much better than most.... why does every swing "know it all" want to change everyone to look like adam scotts swing ? Spieth has more majors than scott .... he certainly contends more often... and no soul on earth would argue that scotts short game/ wedge game is better than Spieths.... so what do you want ? prettier pictures ? LOL just shows what some folks know... or more accurately dont know

[nicoy3k]

you guys are nuts. JS was this close to having a great week. He didn't get anything going on the greens the first three days, but his play was steady. If we had had a windy dry course all week i get the sense he is a lot higher up that leader board.

[larrybud]

7. Everybody compares current players to the incredible streak of Tiger. It just doesn't happen but once every 30-40 years.

[RoryGenius]

We may be struggling at the moment, but we will get it back. We will hole those putts, we will nail those drives, we will never surrender.

[dlygrisse]

Caught lightning in a bottle one season. He will never repeat that level of success again. Probably will have a nice career when his putting heats up from time to time, but won't remotely match even Phil Mickelson career wise. Amazed he does anything with that cut off chicken wing swing..

 

The chicken wing does stop the hook. When I get into hooking my driver I don't pull a full chicken wing but I certainly use it to keep the ball in the fairway.

Similar to Arnie's helicopter finish. It's not something I would try to "fix" for the sake of looking pretty, only if it was a by product of a fundamental change.

 

 

exactly.. i laugh at the people who gripe about his chicken wing... its nothing more than a handsy players reaction to where the face is at impact.... those same hands are why his shortgame is much better than most.... why does every swing "know it all" want to change everyone to look like adam scotts swing ? Spieth has more majors than scott .... he certainly contends more often... and no soul on earth would argue that scotts short game/ wedge game is better than Spieths.... so what do you want ? prettier pictures ? LOL just shows what some folks know... or more accurately dont know

 

In my amateur opinion I think it all stems from his weak left hand grip, if he strengthened the left hand it would cause a chain reaction of events in his swing that would be different than what he does now. It seems to me with that grip he should work on hitting a straight-ish fade with the driver, a draw just seems forced.

[cardoustie]

I said in a post a few years back it could just be a hot streak. We all get on them with golf

 

That said .. I think there are a few factors:

 

1. Way too slow to make a decision and pull the trigger. Overthinks everything .. painful and annoying to me anyways. Rory could hit 5 or 6 shots in the time it takes Jordan to hit 1

2. Lost confidence from meltdown and ANGC

3. Golf swing that is very timing reliant on his hands

4. Doubts about his putter to where he even tried a mallet

[redfirebird08]

 

He's not as athletically gifted as some of the guys he plays against. As the putter cools off, it will be difficult for him to win majors.

 

The press put a lot of pressure on his shoulders. They wanted him to be the next Tiger Woods.

 

Based on the fact it took 35 years after Jack's first major for another similar talent to win his first major, I'm guessing we are at least 15 years away...and hell, there may not be another one. Media should just enjoy the fact we have a lot of very talented guys. It's interesting to watch them duke it out.

[cinnepa]

And if it was purely about swing aesthics, adam scott would be holding up many more majors by now.