San Francisco to Monterey Trip Report

[duffer987]

 

Course Rankings:

Pasatiempo (#1 on my all time list)

Pacific Grove (#10 on my all time list)

Poppy Hills (#30 on my all time list)

Black Horse (wouldn't play again)

Bayonet (wouldn't play again)

 

What would your top 5 Phoenix courses be?

Wondering how you judge courses, to end up with such an order with 3 awesome and 2 you don't actually like.

[BUCKEYERBALL88]

 

Course Rankings:

Pasatiempo (#1 on my all time list)

Pacific Grove (#10 on my all time list)

Poppy Hills (#30 on my all time list)

Black Horse (wouldn't play again)

Bayonet (wouldn't play again)

 

What would your top 5 Phoenix courses be?

Wondering how you judge courses, to end up with such an order with 3 awesome and 2 you don't actually like.

 

The rim

Troon north-pinnacle

Quintero

We ko pa-saguaro

The gallery-south

 

Factors that weigh heavy for me: fun, would I want to play it every day, variety, design & allister Mackenzie's 13 principles

 

[duffer987]

Course Rankings:

Pasatiempo (#1 on my all time list)

Pacific Grove (#10 on my all time list)

Poppy Hills (#30 on my all time list)

Black Horse (wouldn't play again)

Bayonet (wouldn't play again)

 

What would your top 5 Phoenix courses be?

Wondering how you judge courses, to end up with such an order with 3 awesome and 2 you don't actually like.

 

The rim

Troon north-pinnacle

Quintero

We ko pa-saguaro

The gallery-south

 

Factors that weigh heavy for me: fun, would I want to play it every day, variety, design & allister Mackenzie's 13 principles

 

Thanks for the reply.

I was just wondering how you get from Pasa #1 to the bottom two, with the same person playing them ;)

I'm bias in that Bayonet is my favorite <$100/round of golf that I'd play when I lived in California and I like those other three as well. The approach shots at Pasa are some of the most fun shots you can have in golf IMHO, so I definitely don't disagree with you holding it in high esteem.

[Matt J]

I was split about PB because it meant no Pasa.

 

I'm now viewing this as the Egan/Neville trip which will call for a McKenzie trip in the future.

 

I always hear good things about Bayonet and Blackhorse.

 

Anybody tried the NCGA Livermore track? Poppy Ridge maybe?

[Matt J]

Pacific Grove is a ton of fun especially the back nine, but it is pretty short and easy, especially in good weather. I don't know how much it would challenge a better player. I'm a 7 and an average to shorter hitter and almost drove a few greens on the back.

[duffer987]

I was split about PB because it meant no Pasa.

 

I'm now viewing this as the Egan/Neville trip which will call for a McKenzie trip in the future.

 

I always hear good things about Bayonet and Blackhorse.

 

Anybody tried the NCGA Livermore track? Poppy Ridge maybe?

 

It's good value at the NCGA rate and fits in that mid-upper tier daily play wine country, openish style with Wente Vineyards, San Juan Oaks, and Cinnabar, Coyote Creek-Tournament. Good driving course, has some proper tough holes when the wind is up.

I used to play it a couple times a year and it's fun to start out early with a bit of a chill and some fog and then have it end up nicely in the 70s (obviously not in the summer).

[Jungleland]

FWIW, Pebble's greens are healed and rolling fantastic right now - course is in really good shape

[aloha b.]

FWIW, Pebble's greens are healed and rolling fantastic right now - course is in really good shape

 

That's probably because the Champions Tour and First Tee kids are at Pebble and Poppy this week

 

[Matt J]

FWIW, Pebble's greens are healed and rolling fantastic right now - course is in really good shape

 

Must have mowed and cut new cups. I was shocked at how poorly they rolled when I played it last weekend.

[deadsolid...shank]

Pacific Grove is a ton of fun especially the back nine, but it is pretty short and easy, especially in good weather. I don't know how much it would challenge a better player. I'm a 7 and an average to shorter hitter and almost drove a few greens on the back.

 

And that's where we found some of the legendary ice plant (at least we think that's what it was). That stuff is like a rubber hose.

[Jungleland]

FWIW, Pebble's greens are healed and rolling fantastic right now - course is in really good shape

 

Must have mowed and cut new cups. I was shocked at how poorly they rolled when I played it last weekend.

 

I'm sorry to hear that - I was concerned seeing your post but I can't say enough good things about how they rolled.

[Kenny Lee Puckett]

Course Rankings:

Pasatiempo (#1 on my all time list)

Pacific Grove (#10 on my all time list)

Poppy Hills (#30 on my all time list)

Black Horse (wouldn't play again)

Bayonet (wouldn't play again)

 

What would your top 5 Phoenix courses be?

Wondering how you judge courses, to end up with such an order with 3 awesome and 2 you don't actually like.

 

The rim

Troon north-pinnacle

Quintero

We ko pa-saguaro

The gallery-south

 

Factors that weigh heavy for me: fun, would I want to play it every day, variety, design & allister Mackenzie's 13 principles

lol, dude, 2 outta 5 of those ain't exactly "in the neighborhood" of Phoenix :taunt:

[poppyhillsguy]

Pacific Grove is a beautiful walk, but the course is very short. Like others said, the par 4's on the back nine are almost all driveable in good weather. PG is not a challenging course like it use to be before equipment changed.

[MichaelJScott]

Got back from the Monterey Peninsula a few days ago. Played 81 holes in 48 hours.

 

Pasatiempo-Pace of Play was slow about 5 hours. This my 2nd round of this Mackenzie gem, it is still my favorite course that I've ever played. I love the bunkering & green complexes. I found the course more challenging this time. Definitely a 2nd shot course which I like. Lunch in the Mackenzie Grill (clubhouse) before was good. Nice view & tasty burger dog! 3, 10, 11 & 16 are standout holes to me. The greens on 8 & 6 are crazy but a lot of fun.

 

Black Horse-played another Gene Bates design, Salish Cliffs in WA a month ago. I enjoyed SC a lot more. BH was in decent shape. Lots of divots in the fairways. Pretty open of the tee but definitely a 2nd shot course. I enjoyed it more than Bayonet. I wouldn't rush to play either again. My friend suggested they were good muni courses with high end pricing. We paid about $160 for 36 holes NCGA on a Sunday. Heavy fog for the first 12 holes. Very fast greens.

 

Bayonet-defintely different than BH which I like. Very difficult course. Long rough, narrow fairways, and fast greens. A US Open setup. They were hosting some type of tournament later in the week. Pace of play was great for 27 holes then very slow for the last 9 holes. I called the clubhouse but they didn't do anything. Nice view from the patio, decent food but very bad service. Overall didn't find the staff friendly.

 

Back 9 only at Pacific Grove-wow what a fun and pure course! We got there at 730 for our 750 tee time. The gentleman in the pro shop said we needed to be done by 9. I handled it better than my friend (I like to play fast). The pro shop guy handled it well and gave us a free cart and merchandise discounts. The course is short and easy but we had so much fun, shot 38 & 39. Didn't play the front 9 (supposed to be tree-lined, nothing special). I'd rank PG as my 10th favorite course I've ever played, ahead of courses such as Whisper Rock, Streamsong-Red & Torrey Pines. A very natural/links design on an incredible piece of property on the Pacific. Conditions and greens were good.

 

Poppy Hills-good value, $75 NCGA to walk on a weekday. Course conditions don't get better for a public course. They were prepping for the Champions tour in 10 days. I enjoyed the firm fast conditions, lack of rough & width. I hit similar clubs on all the par 3s, which is a negative. A challenging walk w/ push carts but doable. 1 & 18 were great holes. I haven't been to Pinehurst but it has that look. Greens were fast and rolled well but unfair. My friend thought it was in his top 5 ever, I have it in my top 30 ever. Great conditions and look to the course although I didn't thing RTJ Jr's design was anything special. The holes blended together nicely but not a ton were memorable. Played in 3h 45m, with a little push from the group behind us but nobody in front. I was disappointed in the food at Porter's.

 

Course Rankings:

Pasatiempo (#1 on my all time list)

Pacific Grove (#10 on my all time list)

Poppy Hills (#30 on my all time list)

Black Horse (wouldn't play again)

Bayonet (wouldn't play again)

Next time you want to play blackhorse/bayonet check golf now. I play both a couple times a week for $60 even in the morning which is much better than the standard rate they have there. They are nice courses but I couldn't pony up the regular rate to play there. But at 60$ a round I think it's worth it.

[BUCKEYERBALL88]

Course Rankings:

Pasatiempo (#1 on my all time list)

Pacific Grove (#10 on my all time list)

Poppy Hills (#30 on my all time list)

Black Horse (wouldn't play again)

Bayonet (wouldn't play again)

 

What would your top 5 Phoenix courses be?

Wondering how you judge courses, to end up with such an order with 3 awesome and 2 you don't actually like.

 

The rim

Troon north-pinnacle

Quintero

We ko pa-saguaro

The gallery-south

 

Factors that weigh heavy for me: fun, would I want to play it every day, variety, design & allister Mackenzie's 13 principles

lol, dude, 2 outta 5 of those ain't exactly "in the neighborhood" of Phoenix :taunt:

 

Top 5 Phx:

Troon North Pinnacle

We ko pa saguaro

Quintero

Troon north monument

Camelback ambiente

[golfer07840]

Don't know if you're walking or riding at Poppy Hills and it's cart path only until next month.

 

Bah. Yeah, so I discovered. I still have no idea why there courses in the area are CPO. It's not the end of the world, but it sure makes the rounds long. It took two of us 3:45 to play Poppy this morning. That should have been 2:45 max.

How does one play 18 holes in 2:45?

 

Do you Sprint to your ball? I'm really curious. I don't consider myself slow, but the fastest I can remember playing 18 was 3:25 and I felt like I was rushing.

[duffer987]

Don't know if you're walking or riding at Poppy Hills and it's cart path only until next month.

 

Bah. Yeah, so I discovered. I still have no idea why there courses in the area are CPO. It's not the end of the world, but it sure makes the rounds long. It took two of us 3:45 to play Poppy this morning. That should have been 2:45 max.

How does one play 18 holes in 2:45?

 

Do you Sprint to your ball? I'm really curious. I don't consider myself slow, but the fastest I can remember playing 18 was 3:25 and I felt like I was rushing.

 

If you're a decent ball-striker, don't have a super-deliberate PSR, and don't stalk putts like Spieth on a Sunday afternoon, one person in 2:45 and two in 3:00 really is no problem.

 

I ended up first out at the The Irish Course in Kohler last month (just me and a caddy) and played in 2:50. And that was a holiday round, enjoying the course I don't play often, taking some pics, a couple bathroom breaks, and some good banter with the caddy. I couldn't play slower than that.

 

Playing my local track, 6500yds, well laid out for walkers, I'd reckon 2:15 would be the norm as a single. It really isn't rushing, I don't like playing on my own actually, so it rarely happens.

 

To the previous post Poppy Hills is a good walk, so would be slower and yes CPO is just brutal. It's the worst part about Poppy, as a lot of people take a cart, which can make afternoon replays terribly slow. Especially with the wide fairways and limited rough, a ball can go very offline.

[golfer07840]

Don't know if you're walking or riding at Poppy Hills and it's cart path only until next month.

 

Bah. Yeah, so I discovered. I still have no idea why there courses in the area are CPO. It's not the end of the world, but it sure makes the rounds long. It took two of us 3:45 to play Poppy this morning. That should have been 2:45 max.

How does one play 18 holes in 2:45?

 

Do you Sprint to your ball? I'm really curious. I don't consider myself slow, but the fastest I can remember playing 18 was 3:25 and I felt like I was rushing.

 

If you're a decent ball-striker, don't have a super-deliberate PSR, and don't stalk putts like Spieth on a Sunday afternoon, one person in 2:45 and two in 3:00 really is no problem.

 

I ended up first out at the The Irish Course in Kohler last month (just me and a caddy) and played in 2:50. And that was a holiday round, enjoying the course I don't play often, taking some pics, a couple bathroom breaks, and some good banter with the caddy. I couldn't play slower than that.

 

Playing my local track, 6500yds, well laid out for walkers, I'd reckon 2:15 would be the norm as a single. It really isn't rushing, I don't like playing on my own actually, so it rarely happens.

 

To the previous post Poppy Hills is a good walk, so would be slower and yes CPO is just brutal. It's the worst part about Poppy, as a lot of people take a cart, which can make afternoon replays terribly slow. Especially with the wide fairways and limited rough, a ball can go very offline.

 

Maybe it's where I play. You have to use carts, tee boxes are a good 100 yards away from each hole (Hell, some holes I have to cross the street) plus I am not an early riser. I hate mornings. I'm sure playing at 2:00 factors into it. But even when I play an afternoon round by myself on the courses I Play, fast is 3:30. I just can't can't comprehend 2:45. Then again, I shoot mid 80's, so I do take some time to look for a ball or two a round.

[Jungleland]

I play a ton of 2:15 hour rounds and I'm not rushing. Not uncommon for me to leave the office at lunch, get in a round and be back by 3. See the shot, hit the shot, see the putt hit the putt.

[GarrettFM]

Course Rankings:

Pasatiempo (#1 on my all time list)

Pacific Grove (#10 on my all time list)

Poppy Hills (#30 on my all time list)

Black Horse (wouldn't play again)

Bayonet (wouldn't play again)

 

As a local who has played all of those courses multiple times, I would agree almost totally with your assessments, though I think I like Poppy more than you do. Bayonet/Black Horse is overrated, especially Bayonet. Neither is an especially well-designed course. I would prefer Monterey Pines any day.

[GarrettFM]

Don't know if you're walking or riding at Poppy Hills and it's cart path only until next month.

 

Bah. Yeah, so I discovered. I still have no idea why there courses in the area are CPO. It's not the end of the world, but it sure makes the rounds long. It took two of us 3:45 to play Poppy this morning. That should have been 2:45 max.

How does one play 18 holes in 2:45?

 

Do you Sprint to your ball? I'm really curious. I don't consider myself slow, but the fastest I can remember playing 18 was 3:25 and I felt like I was rushing.

 

If you're a decent ball-striker, don't have a super-deliberate PSR, and don't stalk putts like Spieth on a Sunday afternoon, one person in 2:45 and two in 3:00 really is no problem.

 

I ended up first out at the The Irish Course in Kohler last month (just me and a caddy) and played in 2:50. And that was a holiday round, enjoying the course I don't play often, taking some pics, a couple bathroom breaks, and some good banter with the caddy. I couldn't play slower than that.

 

Playing my local track, 6500yds, well laid out for walkers, I'd reckon 2:15 would be the norm as a single. It really isn't rushing, I don't like playing on my own actually, so it rarely happens.

 

To the previous post Poppy Hills is a good walk, so would be slower and yes CPO is just brutal. It's the worst part about Poppy, as a lot of people take a cart, which can make afternoon replays terribly slow. Especially with the wide fairways and limited rough, a ball can go very offline.

 

Best way to play Poppy is to get one of the 2-3 earliest tee times and to walk. I, for one, find it a vigorous but very pleasant walk. So did my 71-year-old dad when we walked 18 there a few days ago. (To be fair, though, he is in excellent shape for an older guy.)

[duffer987]

Course Rankings:

Pasatiempo (#1 on my all time list)

Pacific Grove (#10 on my all time list)

Poppy Hills (#30 on my all time list)

Black Horse (wouldn't play again)

Bayonet (wouldn't play again)

 

As a local who has played all of those courses multiple times, I would agree almost totally with your assessments, though I think I like Poppy more than you do. Bayonet/Black Horse is overrated, especially Bayonet. Neither is an especially well-designed course. I would prefer Monterey Pines any day.

 

MP over Bayonet and Blackhorse?

 

How do you rank the courses that fit under the Pebble Beach Resort umbrella?

[GarrettFM]

Course Rankings:

Pasatiempo (#1 on my all time list)

Pacific Grove (#10 on my all time list)

Poppy Hills (#30 on my all time list)

Black Horse (wouldn't play again)

Bayonet (wouldn't play again)

 

As a local who has played all of those courses multiple times, I would agree almost totally with your assessments, though I think I like Poppy more than you do. Bayonet/Black Horse is overrated, especially Bayonet. Neither is an especially well-designed course. I would prefer Monterey Pines any day.

 

MP over Bayonet and Blackhorse?

 

How do you rank the courses that fit under the Pebble Beach Resort umbrella?

 

For me, the MP courses are FAR superior to the BBH courses. Completely different class. The renovated Shore and Dunes are among the best courses I've played, ever. Black Horse has some fun holes, but Bayonet is not, in my opinion, interesting from a design standpoint. Both tracks have their fans, though.

 

I haven't played Pebble Beach (I know, I know), but I'd put Spyglass above Spanish Bay, and both of those above Del Monte. Poppy Hills is not part of Pebble Beach Resorts, and I LOVE that course. People make fun of me for this, but I'd rank it above Spy. Just a better design, imo.

[duffer987]

Course Rankings:

Pasatiempo (#1 on my all time list)

Pacific Grove (#10 on my all time list)

Poppy Hills (#30 on my all time list)

Black Horse (wouldn't play again)

Bayonet (wouldn't play again)

 

As a local who has played all of those courses multiple times, I would agree almost totally with your assessments, though I think I like Poppy more than you do. Bayonet/Black Horse is overrated, especially Bayonet. Neither is an especially well-designed course. I would prefer Monterey Pines any day.

 

MP over Bayonet and Blackhorse?

 

How do you rank the courses that fit under the Pebble Beach Resort umbrella?

 

For me, the MP courses are FAR superior to the BBH courses. Completely different class. The renovated Shore and Dunes are among the best courses I've played, ever. Black Horse has some fun holes, but Bayonet is not, in my opinion, interesting from a design standpoint. Both tracks have their fans, though.

 

I haven't played Pebble Beach (I know, I know), but I'd put Spyglass above Spanish Bay, and both of those above Del Monte. Poppy Hills is not part of Pebble Beach Resorts, and I LOVE that course. People make fun of me for this, but I'd rank it above Spy. Just a better design, imo.

 

My mistake for the short-hand, I meant Monterey Pines, not Peninsula. Monterey Pines is... well a bog standard muni, bar a couple interesting holes. I much prefer Pacific Grove as the 'easy' round when driving down to Monterey for a 36 hole Saturday (used to live in the Bay Area).

[GarrettFM]

My mistake for the short-hand, I meant Monterey Pines, not Peninsula. Monterey Pines is... well a bog standard muni, bar a couple interesting holes. I much prefer Pacific Grove as the 'easy' round when driving down to Monterey for a 36 hole Saturday (used to live in the Bay Area).

 

Ah, gotcha. I like Monterey Pines a lot! Yes, standard muni/military track in many ways. Par 69, plays pretty easy. But the conditioning is solid and the bunkering makes you think. Plus, it's an easy walk and usually a fast round, neither of which is true of BBH.

 

EDIT: But it occurs to me that my thinking as a local golfer looking for everyday rounds is different from what my thinking would be as a visiting golfer looking for special experiences. Pines is not a course to play as a tourist. BBH might be. But I'd still guide visitors to Poppy, PG, or Quail Lodge over BBH.

[buzlin]

Just played Pasatiempo and Blackhorse for the first time this weekend. Pasatiempo is FANTASTIC! As long as you can get over the houses all around the course (which don't come into play), you'll find an incredibly beautiful, fun, and challenging layout. Blackhorse was a real disappointment. I LOVE Bayonet and was hoping to find a similar challenge. The course looks pretty, but the greens and green complexes were gimmicky and goofy. I won't play it again unless we're looking to add rounds to a trip. That said, I think if you're a member or local and play it a lot, you can find it challenging and "fair" and a nice complement to Bayonet, once you learn the course really well.

[dave willie]

I played Bayonet for the first time on Monday. That's a tough track, especially when the wind blows. It was in good shape, although the fairways had a lot of divots that weren't fixed. The greens rolled fast and true. If you aren't hitting your irons well, it will be a long day at Bayonet. Lots of elevated greens and many bunkers. I'd definitely play it again, and probably go with a Golfnow booking to save a few bucks.