Korean domination in women's golf

[Rustbelt]

It really is getting to be like Korea vs the world, and the world's looking like the underdog...

 

As a person who grew up in Korea, I experienced many of the pressure that society puts in kids there...

 

Rustbelt, I know you posted it a month ago, but thank you for the insights on what childhood's like there. Sounds like a total pressure cooker. Plusses and minuses for education, but I hate to think of favorite players being put through that, that young.

You're welcome. I know many of the aspects have changed since I grew up there. However, these pressures still remain. There have been some news articles relating to Korean kids over the years.

 

And no. No participation trophy is given there. :)

[Awsi Dooger]

Not complicated...5 foot 6. South Korean females are much taller than their Asian counterparts so they send out an extraordinary number of athletic females in the ideal height range of 5 foot 6. I'm glad I merely bet the trend while everyone else either is in denial or overthinks matters.

 

The average female height in South Korea is 5-4. Athletes are typically taller than the population in general. But the scatter plot of height in South Korea is not nearly as widespread as the United States, hence the high percentage of golfers in that 5-6 range compared to the United States, where the average female is only a half inch taller at 5-4 1/2.

 

If the United States had some type of junior program like an old eastern european country or current China in which athletes are specifically selected based on physical criteria for the sport itself, then we'd have a wave of 5-6 American golfers and the results would be far superior, in time. Not exactly complicated. In South Korea it happens mostly by accident.

 

Of course, if that junior identification program were underway in the United States where conventional wisdom prevails it likely would be dense enough to believe that height is important in golf, so we'd be lessening our chances with players who are simply too tall, at least in terms of consistency. The reason some of the more recent South Korean stars are not as consistent as the older block is that some of the South Koreans err either too short (Sei Young Kim) or too tall (In Ghee Chun). Again, not exactly complicated.

 

There is plenty of hype regarding China's golf opportunity. They have a tougher task despite the population advantage. The typical Chinese female is 5 foot 2 1/2, which is the same as Japan, whose LPGA players have notoriously been too short and therefore overmatched in the long term.

[SixtySomePing]

It really is getting to be like Korea vs the world, and the world's looking like the underdog...

 

As a person who grew up in Korea, I experienced many of the pressure that society puts in kids there...

 

Rustbelt, I know you posted it a month ago, but thank you for the insights on what childhood's like there. Sounds like a total pressure cooker. Plusses and minuses for education, but I hate to think of favorite players being put through that, that young.

You're welcome. I know many of the aspects have changed since I grew up there. However, these pressures still remain. There have been some news articles relating to Korean kids over the years.

 

And no. No participation trophy is given there. :)

Rustbelt, I've been a Quality Manager in a Japanese company for 18 years. Your posts to me were spot on. We have some Koreans as well, and I have one Korean gentleman who works for me who is a final/final inspector. So there are 10 American inspectors who inspect our products, and then he inspects every product they inspect, and finds things they missed. He's phenomenal. He and the Japanese as well are so disciplined in their work ethics, they know things because they have studied since they were small. They 'confirm' everything, nothing is assumed. When we have our annual golf tournament on a Saturday in the summer, they always seem to win, because they are so precise with their game. Of course they are not allowed to play in our league because it's on a Tuesday, and starts at 4:00 pm, and that would be unheard of for them. And yes, the scores are posted.

[jmvargas]

i just saw an interview with one of the South Korean major winners this year--forgot the name--when asked for a reason for their successes in the LPGA tour specially in having a major winner each year since 2008..

 

she said it all started with having a great role model--sei ri pak--from the very beginning and followed by the others including inbee park with 7 majors that encouraged and motivated them..

 

she said "if one of our countrygirls can do it we also thought we could too!"...

[Argonne69]

So Yeon Ryu, Sung Hyun Park, and In-Kyung Kim all won majors this past year. Danielle Kang is also of Korean descent.

[jmvargas]

So Yeon Ryu, Sung Hyun Park, and In-Kyung Kim all won majors this past year. Danielle Kang is also of Korean descent.

 

now i remember it was So Yeon Ryu in the interview..

[theboypinoy]

Speaking of Se Ri Pak's influence, is there an upcoming Annika Sorenstam generation in Sweden?

[Argonne69]

Speaking of Se Ri Pak's influence, is there an upcoming Annika Sorenstam generation in Sweden?

 

Sure doesn't look that way. The Swedes don't appear to have been bitten by the golf bug. Their highest ranked player is Madelene Sagstrom, currently #74. Pernilla Lindberg is outside the top 100 at #109. Caroline Hedwall (#170) rounds out the top 200. 'Not what I would consider a powerhouse.

[jmvargas]

Speaking of Se Ri Pak's influence, is there an upcoming Annika Sorenstam generation in Sweden?

 

Sure doesn't look that way. The Swedes don't appear to have been bitten by the golf bug. Their highest ranked player is Madelene Sagstrom, currently #74. Pernilla Lindberg is outside the top 100 at #109. Caroline Hedwall (#170) rounds out the top 200. 'Not what I would consider a powerhouse.

 

unfortunately for Sweden no Swede followed immediately in her footsteps unlike the Koreans...same with Mexico in the case of Lorena..

 

Japan is also getting pretty smoked too..

[ChronicSlicer]

Speaking of Se Ri Pak's influence, is there an upcoming Annika Sorenstam generation in Sweden?

 

Sure doesn't look that way. The Swedes don't appear to have been bitten by the golf bug. Their highest ranked player is Madelene Sagstrom, currently #74. Pernilla Lindberg is outside the top 100 at #109. Caroline Hedwall (#170) rounds out the top 200. 'Not what I would consider a powerhouse.

 

Is world #7 Anna Nordqvist not Swedish anymore?

[Guia]

The Korean's are dominating because of discipline and consistency. They learned by excessive repetition, rarely over extend themselves, and are very patient.

[Argonne69]

Speaking of Se Ri Pak's influence, is there an upcoming Annika Sorenstam generation in Sweden?

 

Sure doesn't look that way. The Swedes don't appear to have been bitten by the golf bug. Their highest ranked player is Madelene Sagstrom, currently #74. Pernilla Lindberg is outside the top 100 at #109. Caroline Hedwall (#170) rounds out the top 200. 'Not what I would consider a powerhouse.

 

Is world #7 Anna Nordqvist not Swedish anymore?

 

Oy. A little too much holiday cheer I'm afraid. My bad.

 

There is quite a dropoff from #7 to #74, though.

[ClairefromClare]

Maybe Sweden and Mexico aren't stepping up, but Thailand seems to be. Kerrie Webb is doing her best in Australia. But then, Canada is supposed to have a strong junior golf program, and outside of Brooke Henderson doesn't have a lot to show for it.

 

On the other hand, if South Korea has this amazing program and strong work ethic, where are the men?

[aliikane]

I think there are several reasons why the Korean ladies are dominating. 1. Strict upbringing, very disciplined. 2. The right mentality for golf. Very methodical thinking. 3. Excellent instruction 4. Extremely hard working 5. Very high intelligence 6.Courses on LPGA are shorter so they can compete. In general, one thing working against them is that big hitters are not that common because Korean ladies are shorter compared to some of the other ladies from other countries. However, the Korean ladies strengths is superb accuracy and strength in all facets of the game. Also, South Korea supports golf unlike China. I think China would be a powerhouse for golf if the government supported golf.

[Argonne69]

Maybe Sweden and Mexico aren't stepping up, but Thailand seems to be. Kerrie Webb is doing her best in Australia. But then, Canada is supposed to have a strong junior golf program, and outside of Brooke Henderson doesn't have a lot to show for it.

 

On the other hand, if South Korea has this amazing program and strong work ethic, where are the men?

 

Se Ri seems to have had a much bigger impact than KJ. Perhaps it's because she won boatload of tournaments, including a major, whereas KJ only managed 8 wins, with the Players being the most prestigious.

 

I'm curious how much of an impact the 2 year military commitment has on the men. It takes a ton of work to get to PGA Tour level skills, and having to take of two years could really set one back.

[Argonne69]

I was going to poo poo the comment on distance, but looking at the stats it does appear to have some element of truth. There are 13 Korean women in the top 25 in the world, and 22 in the top 50. OTOH, there were only 3 Korean women in the top 25 in driving distance in 2017, and 4 in the top 50. (Lol. How does Mi Hyang manage to out-drive So Yeon, MJ, and In Gee?).

 

Clearly their game is one of precision, ballstriking, wedge play, and putting. Sung Hyun seems to have broken out of the pack.

[legitimategolf]

I laugh at this thread and the worldviews expressed within. There was a time when Korea was war-torn and its people were underfed and undersized... but that was many decades ago in the previous century. Today's South Korea is modernized with a high standard of living; its women eat quite well now and grow to semi-normal heights. Anyhow most of the top Korean LPGA players are not Lilliputian. Some of them are actually kind of tall, even by American woman standards. The ones who are short, seem to make up for it in strength. So Yeon could probably out-squat most of the men on this site.

[Argonne69]

Did anyone say they are petite? Most of the top players are in the 5' 5" to 5' 7" range.

 

I'm looking strictly at the numbers, and they are generally not the longest hitters. That's obviously fine, as world rankings and wins seem to clearly indicate that distance is not a huge advantage. I'm guessing it's not because they can't hit it long, but rather the emphasis is on controlled power.

[legitimategolf]

Did anyone say they are petite? Most of the top players are in the 5' 5" to 5' 7" range.

 

Yes I'm pretty sure you said that. You also said that Swedish golf ain't ****, and I could've swore I also heard you saying that you are cruisin' for a bruisin'. :aggressive:

[Argonne69]

Did anyone say they are petite? Most of the top players are in the 5' 5" to 5' 7" range.

 

Yes I'm pretty sure you said that. You also said that Swedish golf ain't ****, and I could've swore I also heard you saying that you are cruisin' for a bruisin'. :aggressive:

 

Well, I definitely said Swedish golf ain't sh*t. Two players in the World's Top 100 isn't scaring anyone.

[ChronicSlicer]

They wonder why Korean`s are dominate...https://www.instagram.com/p/BdBz1pfgWPe/?hl=en&taken-by=ingeechun_dumbo

[lowheel]

Maybe Sweden and Mexico aren't stepping up, but Thailand seems to be. Kerrie Webb is doing her best in Australia. But then, Canada is supposed to have a strong junior golf program, and outside of Brooke Henderson doesn't have a lot to show for it.

 

On the other hand, if South Korea has this amazing program and strong work ethic, where are the men?

 

It works for the girls because there is no physical limitation. South korean men are an average of 5'6 height. They have physical limitations.A few will come out of there but not many. its the same for japanese players

[Shilgy]

Maybe Sweden and Mexico aren't stepping up, but Thailand seems to be. Kerrie Webb is doing her best in Australia. But then, Canada is supposed to have a strong junior golf program, and outside of Brooke Henderson doesn't have a lot to show for it.

 

On the other hand, if South Korea has this amazing program and strong work ethic, where are the men?

 

It works for the girls because there is no physical limitation. South korean men are an average of 5'6 height. They have physical limitations.A few will come out of there but not many. its the same for japanese players

You are off by quite a few years. Men are 5’ 7.5” to 5’9” depending on source and women 5’4.5” to 5’5”. There are many articles about why they are taller than other countries in the region.

[jmvargas]

aside from all the other reasons such as culture,discipline,practice ethics,size etc...i feel the role model reason is the most relevant..

 

when you have 20+ in the top 50 and multiple major winners perennially it does make a difference in the playing attitude of the Korean ladies and seems to have sort of a bandwagon effect..

 

although Thailand does have a role model in Ariya lately no otherThais have followed .

 

these will also apply to the USA and other countries---get more of your countrywomen to win more often and the rest will usually follow.

[AWinfortheAges]

aside from all the other reasons such as culture,discipline,practice ethics,size etc...i feel the role model reason is the most relevant..

 

when you have 20+ in the top 50 and multiple major winners perennially it does make a difference in the playing attitude of the Korean ladies and seems to have sort of a bandwagon effect..

 

although Thailand does have a role model in Ariya lately no otherThais have followed .

 

these will also apply to the USA and other countries---get more of your countrywomen to win more often and the rest will usually follow.

I believe I heard it said that the Jutanugarn's and other Thai golfers look up to Pornanong Phatlum as a role model.

 

I do agree with your role model theory. When you look at the US, it applies to US women's gymnastics team at the Summer Olympics and women's soccer at the world cup.

 

Other than Wie, US women's golfers don't seem to be recognizable outside of golf. I'd be interested to see the effect of a 3 win season(including a major) and consistent top level play by Wie. What would an Olympic win in 2020 by any American do for the sport? How big would it be if Cheyenne Woods could get a win and be a top 15-20 player?

 

Right now it seems like the US is more likely to adopt Lydia Ko and Brooke Henderson as its golf role models.

[lowheel]

Maybe Sweden and Mexico aren't stepping up, but Thailand seems to be. Kerrie Webb is doing her best in Australia. But then, Canada is supposed to have a strong junior golf program, and outside of Brooke Henderson doesn't have a lot to show for it.

 

On the other hand, if South Korea has this amazing program and strong work ethic, where are the men?

 

It works for the girls because there is no physical limitation. South korean men are an average of 5'6 height. They have physical limitations.A few will come out of there but not many. its the same for japanese players

You are off by quite a few years. Men are 5’ 7.5” to 5’9” depending on source and women 5’4.5” to 5’5”. There are many articles about why they are taller than other countries in the region.

 

Im going by UN #s for males age 18-65. Either way theyre not built for it. Nothing wrong with saying that.

[Soloman1]

"Data collected from the federal Centers for Disease Control show that average height for Americans has stabilized in the past 50 years to about 5 feet 9 inches for men and 5 feet 4 inches for women."

[Lime Shark]

I've noticed there are a lot of Canadian hockey players and Caribbean baseball players. Sometimes an area develops an affinity for a sport.

 

As to why American women aren't as competitive...

 

1) Golf requires patience. American youth have none.

 

2) American girls are being funneled into more physical sports: soccer, basketball, volleyball, even wrestling and football. Golf is simply too genteel a sport for today's women. They best female athletes are not choosing golf.

 

Ironically, golf is a great sport for women, because it is one of the few where they can compete head to head with men. I'm not going to watch women's pro soccer, because I know even the best teams are no better than most boy's high school teams. But, I will watch women's pro golf, because I know they are better than most male golfers of any age (other than male pros).

[xxio]

It would be interesting to put those size stats to golf. How many taller Korean men and women play golf? I see a lot of the "training to be pros" variety in my country. They are not the tall variety. I would say 5'4" for the ladies and maybe 5'7" for the men. Not physically big as well.

 

Similarly the height of training to be golf pros in the melting pot of the USA.

[KBong]

As to why American women aren't as competitive...

The US also doesn't have a central system/organization that helps fund the most elite and promising young female golfers....the USGA and state golf associations don't help pay the expenses or coaching of the country's very top tier amateur young girls.

 

Whereas some countries like Canada, NZ and Australia have federations to help pay for the development of their very top few superior amateur golfers.....I'm not sure if S. Korea and Thailand have similar federations who help pay for a young golfer's developmental expenses.

 

A case in point is LPGA US pro Megan Khang....she could not afford to attend some elite amateur events and outside coaching apart from her father. Yet, Brooke Henderson who competed against Megan as an amateur had many of her expenses paid for by Golf Canada and she had coaching from Golf Canada too.

Who knows how good Megan could have been if she had a lot of money thrown at her from the US.

Lydia Ko also had a lot of money thrown her way for expenses from the NZ Golf Federation...I think the same could be said for Minjee Lee from the Australian Golf Federation.

 

Although a lot of money is spent on US university women's golf teams...especially the top tier D1 schools...that model for producing very high LPGA talent has not been creating very many really good LPGA pros in the last 5-6 years...these schools have also been recently (within the last decade) recruiting a lot of foreign female golfers.