Who on tour has a Malaska type swing??

[Fort Worth Pro]

Sergio? No way. He's polar opposite in transition than the Malaska move.

 

Sergio has been mentioned a few times and it perplexes me as to why

 

If you look closely at Sergio's move, he's not "laying the shaft off" anymore in transition (it's already there), so he's actually working it more like malaska said to make sure it is not laid down anymore. That's why you'll see GG's players have an across the line look at the top. It allows their shoulders to work properly to shallow the club on the way down.

 

Correct - Malaska addresses Sergio's move (in the video below). TB07 completely misinterprets both what Sergio does as well as what Mike's drill or practice swing clearly is intended to accomplish, which is highly successful with a vast array of golfers from amateurs to professionals. I don't know why TB07 and some other instructors here can't 'get it, but what else is new...

 

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Because you don't have to intentionally apply that positive out of plane torque. The forces applied to the handle as they move in space will automatically tumble the club out and over if the CoM is under the line of force at left arm parallel. People who are going to get under late are the ones who are steeper in transition or flatten out their shoulders in transition and get the left shoulder high too soon with too much secondary tilt. Has nothing to do with club laying down and wanting to continue in that direction unless you force the club over.

[EaglesGolf99]

Peak Tiger

 

 

 

Yup, there it is. That’s from the Haney era, yes?

No, pretty sure 2000. Butch was on the show with Tiger. Hank was in the background writing notes for any future publications.

 

Yup. Here’s the video...

 

http://youtu.be/xOecUNBV_Q0

 

AWESOME!

[TB07]

 

 

Here's an example of what happens when people who don't already shallow early (most avg golfers) apply this move.

[northgolf]

As if a club has a desire to do anything.

[Miggaletoe]

 

 

Here's an example of what happens when people who don't already shallow early (most avg golfers) apply this move.

is that video serious.

[Milkers]

 

 

Here's an example of what happens when people who don't already shallow early (most avg golfers) apply this move.

 

The instructor in that video repeatedly justifies the Malaska move by referencing Jack Nicklaus "you can't release too early" quote. Talk about blatantly hijacking someone else's words and intentions to fit your own agenda.

[Hilts1969]

 

 

Here's an example of what happens when people who don't already shallow early (most avg golfers) apply this move.

 

The instructor in that video repeatedly justifies the Malaska move by referencing Jack Nicklaus "you can't release too early" quote. Talk about blatantly hijacking someone else's words and intentions to fit your own agenda.

 

The guy works with malaska, malaska said he got it straight from Jack himself. I presume you were privy to this conversation and are therefore calling malaska a liar?

[Over it]

"We got forces that are off setting" lol! What forces are those? The guy is in control of what he's doing to the racket he's applying the forces and he is not doing the same thing when showing it so called "exaggerated" and then when he is making a few "fluid swings" All you have to do is watch is his right hand it's in a different orientation in the so called fluid swings, he's not continually turning the wheel from the top as shown in the exaggerated version

 

What forces could possibly over power that guy and make the racket go so far the opposite way? Answer there are none ... except for the ones he is applying and the truth is many many average golfers force the club in the exact way they say you need to. How's that working for all the steep at transition dumped under and releasing the wrist angle golfers?

 

If this were actually true and most golfers are already doing this steep move in transition it makes the MM move redundant, it's like telling someone who throws the wrist angles away at the top to throw away the wrist angles at the top... ridiculous!

[Over it]

Someone tell GG he's got it all wrong.

 

 

[moehogan]

This fella didn't start the "left turn" with the right arm until after he had reached P6 ... right arm was all "right turn" from P4 to P6. However, the left arm starts the "left turn" a little earlier than the right arm. The use of those opposing forces helped him to square the clubface consistently better than most ...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Over it]

They should have told Hogan he had it all wrong with that shallowing at transition and all that positive beta torque and gamma torque nearing impact... he could have had a good career. :rolleyes:

[PureStrikes54]

These guys must be hacks too. The audacity not to counteract the "offsetting forces".

 

 

 

[ayan]

If this were actually true and most golfers are already doing this steep move in transition it makes the MM move redundant, it's like telling someone who throws the wrist angles away at the top to throw away the wrist angles at the top... ridiculous!

 

I believe there is a prerequisite to applying the "MM move" (or more generally, probably to a good golf swing) that maybe he doesn't talk about, or at least not enough, although he definitely does it. There is the sometimes unspoken requirement of having a good shoulder turn that is not too flat going back, and then initiating the downswing with the left shoulder going a pinch towards the target line and the target, basically putting the sternum over the ball. The more aggressive this left shoulder move is, the more aggressive the "move around the right corner" will have to be, and the more the clubhead will lag the hands. I think all of the people referenced here, be it GG or MM in their videos or Hogan in the picture, do this, as well as probably all the players we see on TV. On the other hand, if from the top the left shoulder starts moving away from the target line immediately, applying the MM will probably cause a big slice or a pull. But, if the left shoulder makes the wrong move from the top, maybe the player will be able to avoid a slice, but will likely be forced to dump the wrist angles.

[iteachgolf]

If this were actually true and most golfers are already doing this steep move in transition it makes the MM move redundant, it's like telling someone who throws the wrist angles away at the top to throw away the wrist angles at the top... ridiculous!

 

I believe there is a prerequisite to applying the "MM move" (or more generally, probably to a good golf swing) that maybe he doesn't talk about, or at least not enough, although he definitely does it. There is the sometimes unspoken requirement of having a good shoulder turn that is not too flat going back, and then initiating the downswing with the left shoulder going a pinch towards the target line and the target, basically putting the sternum over the ball. The more aggressive this left shoulder move is, the more aggressive the "move around the right corner" will have to be, and the more the clubhead will lag the hands. I think all of the people referenced here, be it GG or MM in their videos or Hogan in the picture, do this, as well as probably all the players we see on TV. On the other hand, if from the top the left shoulder starts moving away from the target line immediately, applying the MM will probably cause a big slice or a pull. But, if the left shoulder makes the wrong move from the top, maybe the player will be able to avoid a slice, but will likely be forced to dump the wrist angles.

 

MM does dump his wrist angles, because he’s steep in transition. And good players aren’t moving left shoulder towards the target line in transition. It should move away from the target line. Left side is clearing in transition

[Chote konez]

Are all the Malaska defenders serious? I can’t believe anyone would listen to him for a millisecond if they really paid attention to the entire thread. My guess is that it’s a combo of trolls and people who paid money for his online stuff that just have to have their purchase justified. Or just people “messing around” with his YouTube vids who’ve decided to employ this ridiculous move. I had never heard of Malaska before this thread, but he’s a definite “run, don’t walk” away teacher imo.

[Tish]

Are all the Malaska defenders serious? I can't believe anyone would listen to him for a millisecond if they really paid attention to the entire thread. My guess is that it's a combo of trolls and people who paid money for his online stuff that just have to have their purchase justified. Or just people "messing around" with his YouTube vids who've decided to employ this ridiculous move. I had never heard of Malaska before this thread, but he's a definite "run, don't walk" away teacher imo.

 

Totally agree, Ck. Furthermore, misconstruing what Jack Nicklaus (GOAT) has said about the golf swing is sacrilegious for anyone with respect for the Game.

 

Gravity move to begin DS.... Johnny Miller quoting Jack Nicklaus 3:45, no power is given yet. Gravity acts upon both arms, not simply a golf club weighing less than a pound. Moe Norman called it a “vertical drop”. Ben Hogan called it “dropping into the Slot”, which has nothing to do with opposing forces. Gravity causes the arms and club to drop. It has squat to do with squatting.

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=oBVSUHXngQ4

Jack Nicklaus was quoted in Golf Digest:

 

“Its impossible to release the club too early in the downswing, as long as you move to your left side and swing the club from inside the target line.” (NOT the squat on right foot, GG move)

 

As per Jack Nicklaus, check point is club stays between the two arms (Ben Hogan's Slot) in downswing, which couldnt be more different than the MM move.(MM's move breaks Ben Hogan's DS pane of glass, which is tilted from inside the target line)

 

 

Your right, Ck. Takes so little fact checking to see through the BS.

[Milkers]

 

 

Here's an example of what happens when people who don't already shallow early (most avg golfers) apply this move.

 

The instructor in that video repeatedly justifies the Malaska move by referencing Jack Nicklaus "you can't release too early" quote. Talk about blatantly hijacking someone else's words and intentions to fit your own agenda.

 

The guy works with malaska, malaska said he got it straight from Jack himself. I presume you were privy to this conversation and are therefore calling malaska a liar?

 

Try and do a small bit of reading comprehension next time before you go on the attack. The quote from Jack is one of the most famous in all of golf instruction, anyone with half a brain would have known I wasn't questioning whether he said it or not. And lol if you think that quote comes from a personal conversation between Jack and Mike Malaska.

[Hilts1969]

 

 

Here's an example of what happens when people who don't already shallow early (most avg golfers) apply this move.

 

The instructor in that video repeatedly justifies the Malaska move by referencing Jack Nicklaus "you can't release too early" quote. Talk about blatantly hijacking someone else's words and intentions to fit your own agenda.

 

The guy works with malaska, malaska said he got it straight from Jack himself. I presume you were privy to this conversation and are therefore calling malaska a liar?

 

Try and do a small bit of reading comprehension next time before you go on the attack. The quote from Jack is one of the most famous in all of golf instruction, anyone with half a brain would have known I wasn't questioning whether he said it or not. And lol if you think that quote comes from a personal conversation between Jack and Mike Malaska.

 

I think it's your reading comprehension fella, i never said you were questioning if jack said it, read my post again slowly if needed, malaska said he spoke directly with Jack about that quote and what it meant. I never said that quote came from their conversation, yet again read it again slowly if needed.

 

I shall repeat the gist again to help you, malaska says he spoke to Jack directly about the quote and jack told him what he meant by it. If you don't believe this happened then you are saying malaska is lying.

 

I hope that clears it up for you and helps with your reading comprehension skills.

[Tish]

 

 

Here's an example of what happens when people who don't already shallow early (most avg golfers) apply this move.

 

The instructor in that video repeatedly justifies the Malaska move by referencing Jack Nicklaus "you can't release too early" quote. Talk about blatantly hijacking someone else's words and intentions to fit your own agenda.

 

The guy works with malaska, malaska said he got it straight from Jack himself. I presume you were privy to this conversation and are therefore calling malaska a liar?

 

Try and do a small bit of reading comprehension next time before you go on the attack. The quote from Jack is one of the most famous in all of golf instruction, anyone with half a brain would have known I wasn't questioning whether he said it or not. And lol if you think that quote comes from a personal conversation between Jack and Mike Malaska.

 

I think it's your reading comprehension fella, i never said you were questioning if jack said it, read my post again slowly if needed, malaska said he spoke directly with Jack about that quote and what it meant. I never said that quote came from their conversation, yet again read it again slowly if needed.

 

I shall repeat the gist again to help you, malaska says he spoke to Jack directly about the quote and jack told him what he meant by it. If you don't believe this happened then you are saying malaska is lying.

 

I hope that clears it up for you and helps with your reading comprehension skills.

 

 

IMO, Jacks words need no explanation. The meaning is clear. MM's move isnt even close.

 

 

[Over it]

[Milkers]

 

 

Here's an example of what happens when people who don't already shallow early (most avg golfers) apply this move.

 

The instructor in that video repeatedly justifies the Malaska move by referencing Jack Nicklaus "you can't release too early" quote. Talk about blatantly hijacking someone else's words and intentions to fit your own agenda.

 

The guy works with malaska, malaska said he got it straight from Jack himself. I presume you were privy to this conversation and are therefore calling malaska a liar?

 

Try and do a small bit of reading comprehension next time before you go on the attack. The quote from Jack is one of the most famous in all of golf instruction, anyone with half a brain would have known I wasn't questioning whether he said it or not. And lol if you think that quote comes from a personal conversation between Jack and Mike Malaska.

 

I think it's your reading comprehension fella, i never said you were questioning if jack said it, read my post again slowly if needed, malaska said he spoke directly with Jack about that quote and what it meant. I never said that quote came from their conversation, yet again read it again slowly if needed.

 

I shall repeat the gist again to help you, malaska says he spoke to Jack directly about the quote and jack told him what he meant by it. If you don't believe this happened then you are saying malaska is lying.

 

I hope that clears it up for you and helps with your reading comprehension skills.

 

I never even mentioned Malaska in my OP and you managed to leap from what I said to I was accusing him of being a liar? If you want to really get into it then let's have a look at what Jack Nicklaus actually said that was clearly being referenced by the instructor in the video above (the person I did say was blatantly hijacking the Nicklaus quote).

 

"It's impossible to release the club too early in the downswing -- as long as you move to your left side and swing the club from inside the target line."

 

If you can reference this concept from Nicklaus while teaching the Malaska move and keep a straight face well more power to you. Another thing I've heard is that the "move" is in fact what Nicklaus meant by the Release. Well let's just again refer to the man himself as to what a release is.

 

"It looks like I'm purposely delaying the release of the club. But I can assure you I never tried to delay the hit or retain my wrist c0ck. That happens naturally, if you start with a proper grip, maintain a light grip pressure and keep your arms relaxed."

 

Pretty clear and simple.

[ayan]

If this were actually true and most golfers are already doing this steep move in transition it makes the MM move redundant, it's like telling someone who throws the wrist angles away at the top to throw away the wrist angles at the top... ridiculous!

 

I believe there is a prerequisite to applying the "MM move" (or more generally, probably to a good golf swing) that maybe he doesn't talk about, or at least not enough, although he definitely does it. There is the sometimes unspoken requirement of having a good shoulder turn that is not too flat going back, and then initiating the downswing with the left shoulder going a pinch towards the target line and the target, basically putting the sternum over the ball. The more aggressive this left shoulder move is, the more aggressive the "move around the right corner" will have to be, and the more the clubhead will lag the hands. I think all of the people referenced here, be it GG or MM in their videos or Hogan in the picture, do this, as well as probably all the players we see on TV. On the other hand, if from the top the left shoulder starts moving away from the target line immediately, applying the MM will probably cause a big slice or a pull. But, if the left shoulder makes the wrong move from the top, maybe the player will be able to avoid a slice, but will likely be forced to dump the wrist angles.

 

MM does dump his wrist angles, because he's steep in transition. And good players aren't moving left shoulder towards the target line in transition. It should move away from the target line. Left side is clearing in transition

 

Yes, it looks like he does and may be half a frame past a flip at impact, although his hands are still ahead of the ball. I'd read your post showing a still of one of MM's own swings a few days ago. I wrote suggesting that his left shoulder being low and closed allowed him to make the move and not slice or pull the shot, not really thinking of his as a clear example of a great "PGA type" of swing.

 

You commented on the left shoulder not moving towards the target line. Perhaps you have some 3D data, if so I'd love to see it because I am curious and like to learn, not because my goal is to discredit what you are saying . The move I tried to describe with words, maybe inaccurately, is what is shown in the Rory animated GIF below -- click on it to see the animation. Don't know how else to explain it. It would seem to me that -- especially when the shoulder turn goes over 90 degrees, as it usually does with good swings -- you will necessarily have to get closer to the target line before you start moving away from it, unless you come out of your posture.

 

I know the drill/feel "left shoulder down" like you're leading with it from the top of the backswing worked for me, helped keep the handle low and encouraged not dumping the angles, otherwise the strike would be beyond fat. I've added a similar drill by Robin Symes as well at the bottom.

 

 

 

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[chrisgilly09]

As if a club has a desire to do anything.

 

Well I’ll guarantee you’ll never be a member here

[Tish]

If this were actually true and most golfers are already doing this steep move in transition it makes the MM move redundant, it's like telling someone who throws the wrist angles away at the top to throw away the wrist angles at the top... ridiculous!

 

I believe there is a prerequisite to applying the "MM move" (or more generally, probably to a good golf swing) that maybe he doesn't talk about, or at least not enough, although he definitely does it. There is the sometimes unspoken requirement of having a good shoulder turn that is not too flat going back, and then initiating the downswing with the left shoulder going a pinch towards the target line and the target, basically putting the sternum over the ball. The more aggressive this left shoulder move is, the more aggressive the "move around the right corner" will have to be, and the more the clubhead will lag the hands. I think all of the people referenced here, be it GG or MM in their videos or Hogan in the picture, do this, as well as probably all the players we see on TV. On the other hand, if from the top the left shoulder starts moving away from the target line immediately, applying the MM will probably cause a big slice or a pull. But, if the left shoulder makes the wrong move from the top, maybe the player will be able to avoid a slice, but will likely be forced to dump the wrist angles.

 

MM does dump his wrist angles, because he's steep in transition. And good players aren't moving left shoulder towards the target line in transition. It should move away from the target line. Left side is clearing in transition

 

Yes, it looks like he does and may be half a frame past a flip at impact, although his hands are still ahead of the ball. I'd read your post showing a still of one of MM's own swings a few days ago. I wrote suggesting that his left shoulder being low and closed allowed him to make the move and not slice or pull the shot, not really thinking of his as a clear example of a great "PGA type" of swing.

 

You commented on the left shoulder not moving towards the target line. Perhaps you have some 3D data, if so I'd love to see it because I am curious and like to learn, not because my goal is to discredit what you are saying . The move I tried to describe with words, maybe inaccurately, is what is shown in the Rory animated GIF below -- click on it to see the animation. Don't know how else to explain it. It would seem to me that -- especially when the shoulder turn goes over 90 degrees, as it usually does with good swings -- you will necessarily have to get closer to the target line before you start moving away from it, unless you come out of your posture.

 

I know the drill/feel "left shoulder down" like you're leading with it from the top of the backswing worked for me, helped keep the handle low and encouraged not dumping the angles, otherwise the strike would be beyond fat. I've added a similar drill by Robin Symes as well at the bottom.

 

 

 

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Ben Hogan warned against beginning the DS with the shoulders. Drop into the slot using gravity

with the club between the two arms and begin moving the lower body first.

The arms and shoulders locked together as a unit tighter than a *******.

 

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[iteachgolf]

Something off with that gif of Rory. Camera is both moving and zooming in and back out from the first to second frame then the third. Like the photos changed scale which will obviously change shoulder location. Camera angle will also make it apprear like it moves towards target line as it moves down. If accurate the gif also shows his head moving significantly towards the target line, which he doesn’t do either. It’s the down motion appearing towards the target line due to camera angle

 

Can see his head in transition doesn’t move towards the target line (if anything slightly away as it moves down) and his left shoulder works down but not towards the target line.

 

 

On 3D you might see it move minuscule amount towards target on some swings with a bunch of turn (120*+ and usually players coming out of posture). You have to keep in mind that the tailbone and lower spine is moving away from the target line in transition. Turning does move lead side closer to the target line but side bend actually makes shoulder move away from target line. Rotate something of a fixed length from horizontal towards vertical, the end moves away from horizon, aka away from target line. So the combination of base of spine/center of pelvis moving away from the target line (increasing forward bend) and a majority of players increasing left side bend in transition the left shoulder generaly moves down and away from or parallel to then away from the target line in transition A player coming out of his posture and tilting too quickly is actually the one who would move towards the target line.

[ayan]

Something off with that gif of Rory. Camera is both moving and zooming in and back out from the first to second frame then the third. Like the photos changed scale which will obviously change shoulder location. Camera angle will also make it apprear like it moves towards target line as it moves down. If accurate the gif also shows his head moving significantly towards the target line, which he doesn’t do either. It’s the down motion appearing towards the target line due to camera angle

 

Can see his head in transition doesn’t move towards the target line (if anything slightly away as it moves down) and his left shoulder works down but not towards the target line.

 

 

On 3D you might see it move minuscule amount towards target on some swings with a bunch of turn (120*+ and usually players coming out of posture). You have to keep in mind that the tailbone and lower spine is moving away from the target line in transition. Turning does move lead side closer to the target line but side bend actually makes shoulder move away from target line. Rotate something of a fixed length from horizontal towards vertical, the end moves away from horizon, aka away from target line. So the combination of base of spine/center of pelvis moving away from the target line (increasing forward bend) and a majority of players increasing left side bend in transition the left shoulder generaly moves down and away from or parallel to then away from the target line in transition A player coming out of his posture and tilting too quickly is actually the one who would move towards the target line.

 

Gotcha. Thanks for taking the time to explain, Dan.

[Hilts1969]

Once milker has finished back tracking maybe he will mention this thread next time he speaks to him

[BottleCap]

Are all the Malaska defenders serious? I can't believe anyone would listen to him for a millisecond if they really paid attention to the entire thread. My guess is that it's a combo of trolls and people who paid money for his online stuff that just have to have their purchase justified. Or just people "messing around" with his YouTube vids who've decided to employ this ridiculous move. I had never heard of Malaska before this thread, but he's a definite "run, don't walk" away teacher imo.

 

The guy's a top Golf Digest top 50 instructor, so his stuff works for somebody. Why does it matter if you've heard of him, are you someone special?

[Chote konez]

Are all the Malaska defenders serious? I can't believe anyone would listen to him for a millisecond if they really paid attention to the entire thread. My guess is that it's a combo of trolls and people who paid money for his online stuff that just have to have their purchase justified. Or just people "messing around" with his YouTube vids who've decided to employ this ridiculous move. I had never heard of Malaska before this thread, but he's a definite "run, don't walk" away teacher imo.

 

The guy's a top Golf Digest top 50 instructor, so his stuff works for somebody. Why does it matter if you've heard of him, are you someone special?

 

Lol golf digest top 50. Means literally zero besides he’s marketed himself well (which is a skill all it’s own that I readily give him credit for). And yes, I do think I’m special.

[baudi]

It supersedes marketing in many ways.

 

One of the admirable aspects of Mike Malaska is that he teaches from two references: his own flaws (of which he is not modest about despite his past high level playing experience) and the building blocks from other teachers and the players of whom he refers to high regard. In between these reference points MM exposes his own swing methodology.

 

Without Mike Malaska I never would have heard of Joe Nichols (who would?) to whom he addresses a complete video. Here MM explains his thoughts and ideas and points out why he incorporates these fundamentals.

It is the kind of teaching I sincerely praise.