Who on tour has a Malaska type swing??

[Over it]

Anyone who would demonstrate that move from the top in a real swing or demo would be said to have steepened the club by any knowledgeable instructor or reasonable person who knows what that looks like as opposed to flattening the club. So simple if you don't have an agenda.

[Over it]

And still waiting for one of his supporters to explain what force or torque is wanting the club to flatten so much at the top that we need a positive beta torque to offset that? I mean we have the club in our hands we are the one's putting forces and torques on the club, but there's this mysterious force that makes the club want to flatten excessively unless we counter it.

[dap]

Malaska says that the club begins to gain in weight as soon as the downswing begins which is true but it's not due to gravity but mostly by the golfer applying force to the club. The player that is steep in transition will learn to flatten the club to hit the ball relatively straight. This flattening is done by the player and not by the weight of the club.

 

Now I will say he might be correct that by around P5 to P6 the flattening club does weigh quite a bit( he claims around 25 lbs) and a steepening force is required to prevent the club to continue shallowing into the ball and cause underplane issue.

 

In my opinion the Malaska move is actually to address players who are steep in transition of which there are quite a few, even some touring pros. The feel is that his move start from the top but actually the effect takes place around P5 to P6. This is apparent in his own swing.

[Over it]

Nah most who are steep in transition shallow it later by releasing wrist angles and stalling rotation and flipping it. Most never learn to flatten it in transition but some learn a way to shallow it. Malaska is steep and releases wrist angles too soon dumps it under and stalls with a flip release... like Iteach said his head moves forward and he stays in flexion too long.

[Over it]

If you're steep at the transition you better find a way to shallow it later. Not ideal but you can play.

[golow]

 

 

 

 

Sorry - wouldn't let me attach .gif I made so had to screenshot it.

 

Yes he demonstrates a steepening or tip out move or all beta full faucet move when he shows what the arms do in isolation.

 

Then add in the pivot and rotation - hands out and down and that mitigates the the effect. If Alpha = Beta you stay right on plane. If Beta<Alpha you shallow. No way either is zero in transition ... not a chance.

 

My only agenda is to see some or a lot of good in effective golf instruction (in this thread ... not a life goal). Others do seem to have an agenda of ripping others down because they misspoke, mislabelled a move or don't like something about them.

 

I spent $10 to have access to his full body of video work to better understand ... validating that is not my need.

 

Rad the innocuous title of this thread ..... then read the thread again. Sad

[dap]

Nah most who are steep in transition shallow it later by releasing wrist angles and stalling rotation and flipping it. Most never learn to flatten it in transition but some learn a way to shallow it. Malaska is steep and releases wrist angles too soon dumps it under and stalls with a flip release... like Iteach said his head moves forward and he stays in flexion too long.

Good players that are steep in transition and then shallow often suffer underplane issues, a swing path that is way too inside out. McIlroy often has this problem and hits over draws. The Malaska move can be effective in these cases.

 

His move works in some cases but he just got the theory wrong in my opinion.

[Over it]

Golow : Nah if you do that steepening move good luck with trying to rotate/pivot that's the irony you pivot stall if your club is steep in transition, because you have to shallow later with dumping angles too soon and then your pivot stalls.

[Over it]

Nah most who are steep in transition shallow it later by releasing wrist angles and stalling rotation and flipping it. Most never learn to flatten it in transition but some learn a way to shallow it. Malaska is steep and releases wrist angles too soon dumps it under and stalls with a flip release... like Iteach said his head moves forward and he stays in flexion too long.

Good players that are steep in transition and then shallow often suffer underplane issues, a swing path that is way too inside out. McIlroy often has this problem and hits over draws. The Malaska move can be effective in these cases.

 

His move works in some cases but he just got the theory wrong in my opinion.

 

 

I think Mac is shallow in transition and his pivot is out of wack when he hit's the over draws. Jmo.

[Over it]

[Over it]

Malaska steep in transition , dumped under, pivot stall, flip release, head forward , in flexion too long, no shaft lean to speak of.... but hey he can play, is it a good pattern to follow?

[golow]

Golow : Nah if you do that steepening move good luck with trying to rotate/pivot that's the irony you pivot stall if your club is steep in transition, because you have to shallow later with dumping angles too soon and then your pivot stalls.

 

Since I've started keying in on Malaska's feel from top I shallow as much or more than before. It helps that his pivot finally got me to actually do the Monte zipper away feel for first time. Once I feel Beta increasing and increasing .... I'm rotating with no stall to stay ahead. Everything I've been told by others has been spot on ... but this feel just helped it all fall into place. And no I don't have all these swing thoughts when practicing or playing.

 

My problems (not new) lazy lifty backswing and quick transition that doesn't give me time to shallow first so brain adds trail side bend in downswing. I'm not cured ... but it seems easier every day.

[dap]

Nah most who are steep in transition shallow it later by releasing wrist angles and stalling rotation and flipping it. Most never learn to flatten it in transition but some learn a way to shallow it. Malaska is steep and releases wrist angles too soon dumps it under and stalls with a flip release... like Iteach said his head moves forward and he stays in flexion too long.

Good players that are steep in transition and then shallow often suffer underplane issues, a swing path that is way too inside out. McIlroy often has this problem and hits over draws. The Malaska move can be effective in these cases.

 

His move works in some cases but he just got the theory wrong in my opinion.

 

 

I think Mac is shallow in transition and his pivot is out of wack when he hit's the over draws. Jmo.

I don't think Mac is shallow in transition. He's pretty much on plane to slightly steep. Most of his swings I have seen in transition has the club pointing at the target line to slightly inside. True shallow transition players are guys like Sergio where the club is pointing way outside the target line.

[golow]

Malaska steep in transition , dumped under, pivot stall, flip release, head forward , in flexion too long, no shaft lean to speak of.... but hey he can play, is it a good pattern to follow?

 

He's not steep in all swings (some yes) --- I been toggling the transition on every one of his swings on his site.

 

Good thing is I'm not steep in transition, dumped under, no stall, release is fine, hand position good not perfect at P6, head solid and shaft lean is better .... wasn't enough in past. I'm gonna stick with some of his feels thoughts for a bit longer. If I herniate 3 disks and have a stroke maybe my results will change though.

[Shilgy]

Who's speaking for Monte? He puts his stuff out for everyone to see as does MM. if you can't see that one person teaches one feel for the downswing and the other doesn't that's your problem.

 

MM doesn't base his whole teaching system around a move ... isolated and glorified by WRXers and Brendan. He shows (often) how the club moves in good swings. Club moves very differently when pivot and rotation are removed from equation. So whether you slice or hook his goal is to get you sorted out.

 

My son is 15 and definitely has a sensory processing problem ... probably well shy of a disorder but it's magnified in the golf swing and noted when he's trying to do what his instructor asks him to do.

 

I've had him supplement all that with a few videos .... guess which help and by that I mean visibly help (lightbulbs and pure shots). Yep a few of MMs and all of Montes production vids.

 

Simple.

 

Ask yourself this .... why do so many people like MM and are really seeing results since his name resurfaced and he found the internet. I'm actually interested any detractors' answers to that question.

Exactly. Same as the Jim Waldron arm swing illusion. The arms don't appear to go up and away as in the asi due to the pivot. But in isolation they do.

[Over it]

Nah most who are steep in transition shallow it later by releasing wrist angles and stalling rotation and flipping it. Most never learn to flatten it in transition but some learn a way to shallow it. Malaska is steep and releases wrist angles too soon dumps it under and stalls with a flip release... like Iteach said his head moves forward and he stays in flexion too long.

Good players that are steep in transition and then shallow often suffer underplane issues, a swing path that is way too inside out. McIlroy often has this problem and hits over draws. The Malaska move can be effective in these cases.

 

His move works in some cases but he just got the theory wrong in my opinion.

 

 

I think Mac is shallow in transition and his pivot is out of wack when he hit's the over draws. Jmo.

I don't think Mac is shallow in transition. He's pretty much on plane to slightly steep. Most of his swings I have seen in transition has the club pointing at the target line to slightly inside. True shallow transition players are guys like Sergio where the club is pointing way outside the target line.

 

 

Steep compared to Sergio... who isn't. Mac is shallow enough in transition and I'm sure there's varying degrees of shallow and Mac isn't steep.

[PutterKilledTheDream]

Following along here and relishing in the irony.....

 

So, as I've read I've heard ' beta torque' mentioned by 97% of the posters as if it's a universally-established golf term....

A lot of comments about COM relationship to the hand path/force plane thrown around as if it's absolute scientific law....

 

MM obviously isn't in or 'up' on the latest bio circle jerk. Whats hard for me to wrap my dome around is that 99% of these folks commenting if you asked them a couple years ago, not only would they most likely be bashing Manzella and MacKenzie.... they proabably would have agreed with Malaskas model. But so goes the ebb and flow of the tide of trying to relevant in golf instruction lol.

 

Rant over. Flame on.

 

 

[TB07]

I never would agree with steepening in transition in order to get the handle low at impact. It's been pretty accepted even before the study that steep early leads to high handle and shallow late.

[moehogan]

If you are across the line with a flying right elbow at the top after a steep arm lift in the 2nd half of your BS, Malaska's move might FEEL like a shallowing one. But since feel is not always exactly real, the Nicklaus references need to be put in context.

 

In some ways, Jack's swing was like Jimmy Bruen's on Prozac ... the huge underhand right arm move required in his DS was proof of his tremendous talent and athleticism. No doubt the GOAT!

 

 

[Chote konez]

 

 

 

 

Sorry - wouldn't let me attach .gif I made so had to screenshot it.

 

Yes he demonstrates a steepening or tip out move or all beta full faucet move when he shows what the arms do in isolation.

 

Then add in the pivot and rotation - hands out and down and that mitigates the the effect. If Alpha = Beta you stay right on plane. If Beta<Alpha you shallow. No way either is zero in transition ... not a chance.

 

My only agenda is to see some or a lot of good in effective golf instruction (in this thread ... not a life goal). Others do seem to have an agenda of ripping others down because they misspoke, mislabelled a move or don't like something about them.

 

I spent $10 to have access to his full body of video work to better understand ... validating that is not my need.

 

Rad the innocuous title of this thread ..... then read the thread again. Sad

 

He’s super steep in that third pic. And he should be called out for misspeaking and completely misunderstanding gravity. Been a good thread take what you want and leave the rest imo.

[PutterKilledTheDream]

I never would agree with steepening in transition in order to get the handle low at impact. It's been pretty accepted even before the study that steep early leads to high handle and shallow late.

 

You sure about that?

Did you not say in this video that a steep backswing makes it harder to shallow the downswing? The second swing with your prescribed inside flat takeaway led to an even more pronounced steepening move in transition and is as clear as day....

 

[MPStrat]

I took that as trying to get the guy more depth in the backswing which will help him shallow

[PutterKilledTheDream]

I took that as trying to get the guy more depth in the backswing which will help him shallow

 

But the guy got clearly steeper in transition yet it was stated that he got shallower based apparently on a sim ball flight. Obviously you can still draw the ball with the COM shifting WAY above the hand path. Depth had nothing to do with his transition issues.

[MPStrat]

I took that as trying to get the guy more depth in the backswing which will help him shallow

 

But the guy got clearly steeper in transition yet it was stated that he got shallower based apparently on a sim ball flight. Obviously you can still draw the ball with the COM shifting WAY above the hand path. Depth had nothing to do with his transition issues.

 

Personally I don’t think the guys swing needed an overhaul. The shaft pitch looked the same in both swings. To me it was a simple tweak that allowed him to approach the ball a little more from the inside and potentially improve his transition issues over time.

[Petunia Sprinkle]

I just want to thank Dan, TB, northgolf, and several trolls for careing about my well being and saving me the emotional devastation that I could have gone through if I tried the MM move.

Trying it myself to see if it is helpful or not is too big of a risk. A risk I'm not willing to take.

You see I'm a little steep in transition and I know that even if MM's teachings work for me, I know that because of the well articulated points in this thread that it's wrong.

 

Indeed. Good to see someone getting it. The move is completely wrong and if you are steep it’s a train wreck. But at least it seems you saw the light.

 

 

Think he was being sarcastic. Thus the mention of trolls.

 

It seemed pretty sincere. I tend to take people at their word. We are all just trying to help each other get better right?

 

I thought he was serious, too. I’m a little disappointed were he just resorting to sarcasm.

[argee1977]

Wow, is this thread still going, reading back a couple of pages the whole feel/real thing has been left behind and Malaska is teaching people to be steeper in transition?

 

I don't think i've seen a video where he's showing someone this move where he doesn't state it's to counter their tendency to get a bit stuck, or too shallow, and he usually says something like 'this is what you feel, but this is what happens in your full swing'. I think the video where he's teaching the old guy shows he doesn't preach this 'Malaska Move' to everyone, as that guy would have been hitting massive pulls with the swing he had.

 

As for critiquing his swing, not sure what that proves, how many of the teaching pro's we see have perfect swings, and after they've been performing a drill for ages then swinging you'd expect them to put a bit too much of the drill into their swing.

 

I just think this thread has gone a bit OTT, as people are basing Malaska's entire teaching career on one drill, if i went to Mike for a lesson, or iTeach or any coach on here i probably wouldn't be taught this move, as my swing just now is a little steep in transition itself, back when i was a bit more fire the hips fast and had a stuck club, this drill did help a bit (it stopped the pushes), but as with all drills, you overdo it and you end up at the other end. That's why a good teacher is a must, rather than just watching youtube videos looking for the next drill to fix the issue the last one put into your swing, i've been there, like a lot of others!

[dap]

Nah most who are steep in transition shallow it later by releasing wrist angles and stalling rotation and flipping it. Most never learn to flatten it in transition but some learn a way to shallow it. Malaska is steep and releases wrist angles too soon dumps it under and stalls with a flip release... like Iteach said his head moves forward and he stays in flexion too long.

Good players that are steep in transition and then shallow often suffer underplane issues, a swing path that is way too inside out. McIlroy often has this problem and hits over draws. The Malaska move can be effective in these cases.

 

His move works in some cases but he just got the theory wrong in my opinion.

 

 

I think Mac is shallow in transition and his pivot is out of wack when he hit's the over draws. Jmo.

I don't think Mac is shallow in transition. He's pretty much on plane to slightly steep. Most of his swings I have seen in transition has the club pointing at the target line to slightly inside. True shallow transition players are guys like Sergio where the club is pointing way outside the target line.

 

 

Steep compared to Sergio... who isn't. Mac is shallow enough in transition and I'm sure there's varying degrees of shallow and Mac isn't steep.

 

Yes Mac is shallow enough in transition but I wouldn't call him very shallow or laid off. Sergio would be very shallow in transition but he's not the only tour pro that is laid off that much so it's not like he's a special case.I can name a huge list but here are just a few. Nick Price, Nick Faldo, Ben Hogan, Arnold Palmer, Dustin Johnson and Scott McCarron.

 

This is a shallow transition

 

 

 

 

 

[Fort Worth Pro]

Following along here and relishing in the irony.....

 

So, as I've read I've heard ' beta torque' mentioned by 97% of the posters as if it's a universally-established golf term....

A lot of comments about COM relationship to the hand path/force plane thrown around as if it's absolute scientific law....

 

MM obviously isn't in or 'up' on the latest bio circle jerk. Whats hard for me to wrap my dome around is that 99% of these folks commenting if you asked them a couple years ago, not only would they most likely be bashing Manzella and MacKenzie.... they proabably would have agreed with Malaskas model. But so goes the ebb and flow of the tide of trying to relevant in golf instruction lol.

 

Rant over. Flame on.

 

COM and it's relationship to force plane is physics law.

 

How is your teaching career going?

[TB07]

I took that as trying to get the guy more depth in the backswing which will help him shallow

 

But the guy got clearly steeper in transition yet it was stated that he got shallower based apparently on a sim ball flight. Obviously you can still draw the ball with the COM shifting WAY above the hand path. Depth had nothing to do with his transition issues.

 

Personally I don’t think the guys swing needed an overhaul. The shaft pitch looked the same in both swings. To me it was a simple tweak that allowed him to approach the ball a little more from the inside and potentially improve his transition issues over time.

 

PKTD just has an axe to grind with anyone that has anything to do with Joe Mayo even if they get it correct.

 

That video was an edited 30 second quick tip and the goal was to show off the store. The hands were to get deeper to limit the inside takeaway and the resulting lift to the top. Where does that say I believe in steepening the shaft early to get the hands lower at impact? Was that a successful lesson? No, of course not. It wasn't even a lesson. It was a quick tip as that's what the company wanted to do, quick tips. I'm sure you could correct anyone in 30 seconds though.

[TB07]

I took that as trying to get the guy more depth in the backswing which will help him shallow

 

But the guy got clearly steeper in transition yet it was stated that he got shallower based apparently on a sim ball flight. Obviously you can still draw the ball with the COM shifting WAY above the hand path. Depth had nothing to do with his transition issues.

 

And no the guy clearly didn't get steeper. The shaft pitch was very similar, he simply got deeper. It also wasn't stated that he got shallower, as you should know because you have posted that video many times. It was stated "that it will HELP shallow him out".

 

1st

 

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