Little or no wrist hinge. Anyone play this way?

[Oh Hi Carl]

For those with an early wrist hinge, does the hinge happen later in the swing with a driver than it does with a short iron?

 

I ask because I recently started intentionally having an early wrist hinge and it's been really helpful for my iron play. Making great contact now. But it's been tough to make solid contact with my 3i thru driver. Seems like the early wrist hinge isn't compatible with those clubs. Any thoughts on this? Thanks.

[golferdude54]

Had to revive this thread because there are so many great players who do this but people are focusing too much at the top of the backswing rather than a better checkpoint, which is left arm parallel to ground, or P3 in MORAD terminology.

 

Look no further than Jack Nicklaus and Tiger Woods, when they were young in their early 20s, they had virtually no wrist hinge at P3. You can measure this by what the angle is between the left arm and clubshaft DTL at address, and if it’s the same angle between the clubshaft and left arm at P3 FO, that means there was no wrist hinge.

 

Other examples include Byron Nelson and Mickey Wright, and in today’s game, Will Zalatoris and Cameron Young.
 

In TGM, this is called float-loading. Believe it or not, it’s possible to hit it as long and straight as Nicklaus in 1980 (when he set the all-time total driving stat at 23, 10th in distance and 13th in accuracy) AND be as accurate as Steve Stricker on partial wedge shots.

 

 

[ChipNRun]

I have a cupped left wrist at address, and don't have much wrist hinge by time I get to top. On video, I actually have a slight late hinge near top. But, in seasons when I tried to consciously c0ck the wrist for more power, I had extreme control problems.

 

Due to hip and back problems, I now focus on proper hip tilt and rotating torso to top with quiet hands... but on downswing I rotate my forearms to gain power, along with lateral hip shift.

 

Two instructors a few years apart both told me to "let the wrists do what they do naturally."

 

My set at top looks similar to that of John Rahm, but that's where the similarity ends.

[green5]

For some decades the creator of Natural Golf has been promoting various versions of no wrist hinge swing, discussed earlier here. He claims hinging the elbows is much more efficient but I don't think the distance is all that great. However a long time ago I've played with an older gentleman who went all in with the method and he was pretty decent with it.

 

Since then I've tried variations of it myself (my feelings of the swing were pretty much identical to JonT's description here) and while I have no idea if I was performing it correctly I found the no wrist swing surprisingly effective when I haven't played or practiced in a long time, especially for my tee shots, and it was more reliable and just as long as my stinger if not longer. I can pretty much mirror what JonT said for the results. It might be a viable option for amateurs who don't get to practice much or those with less mobility. 

[jarediogolf]

I am trying to keep my hands low and FEEL like I have no wrist c0ck with some preset trail wrist cupping to create shaft lean. 
 

I’m sure there is plenty of wrist c0ck happening in transition though. 
 

I do know I’m compressing the ball better and hitting straighter and longer with less effort. And I have less issues creating lag. Prevents casting. 

[FormerBigDaddy]

In the past I have been a chronic over hinger at the end of my backswing.  Mostly due to inside takeaway and too much forearm rotation.  The past couple of years I've focused on a better pivot, more left shoulder down, and the feeling of my wrists not setting.  Sometimes I fall back into my old ways and question things like everyone else.  But things look really good on video when I  I FEEL like I simply shift, turn, and tilt to get to the top.  I feel like my arms and wrists do absolutely nothing.  But that is obviously impossible or the club would never get over my shoulder.  Video of my swing shows a full wrist set.  Gravity and momentum does things naturally and sometimes you cannot feel it.

 

 

Edited January 26, 2023 by FormerBigDaddy

[jerry benedetto]

I have the shanks and I think that I can play without cocking my wrists. I will try to play my irons with no wrist c0ck

[Zitlow]

If your sequence is correct your hands and wrists will set naturally between P2 and P3 on the correct plane. 

[xkilgorextroutx]

I've tried this in the past (see Sam Goulden's Square to Square) but I find that letting my wrists hinge naturally at the top of the swing gives me more height and consistency. 

[KMeloney]

On 5/29/2023 at 12:41 PM, Zitlow said:

If your sequence is correct your hands and wrists will set naturally between P2 and P3 on the correct plane. 

 

What "sequence"? Knowing there's nothing natural about if for me, I'll never buy into this notion.

[golferdude54]

Scottie Scheffler's doing pretty darn well for a swing with little wrist hinge, his swing reminds me of Nicklaus other than the footwork.

[Zitlow]

1 hour ago, KMeloney said:

 

What "sequence"? Knowing there's nothing natural about if for me, I'll never buy into this notion.

Because you're trying to do too much with your hands, wrists and forearms which introduce too many variables. 

 

 

[golferdude54]

Scottie Scheffler, Jack Nicklaus, and Mickey Wright with driver at a point in their backswing when club is vertical to ground. Look how far their left arm go up before the club reaches vertical. Once the clubhead passes vertical, that's when gravity takes over with the weight of the clubhead making the wrists hinge.

 

[iacas]

51 minutes ago, golferdude54 said:

Once the clubhead passes vertical, that's when gravity takes over with the weight of the clubhead making the wrists hinge.

 

No…

 

The club is in the process of hinging at this point. If it was "gravity" the club would be hinged the other way or something at those points in the swing.

 

Did some other force (magnetism, maybe?) help Tiger hinge the club from the left image to the right image here?

 

 

Sometimes I wonder where y'all come up with some of this stuff. 🤣

 

Edited May 30, 2023 by iacas

[MonteScheinblum]

When it comes to the club head, gravity has about as much affect as it does on a level flying plane. It is being overwhelmed by other forces and has almost no effect at all.

[NoCalHack]

I remember listening to a pod with Sasho MacKenzie talking about the biomechanics of the golf swing and hitting it long. I remember he definitely said the wrists are the joints that would cause the most power loss of they didn’t bend.  
 

So regardless of what it may feel like, you will not hit the ball well or long without wrist hinge. And no pro does it regardless of how it may look at certain positions in a video. 

[Valtiel]

2 hours ago, iacas said:

Did some other force (magnetism, maybe?)....

I remember a youtube comment that blamed one of Tiger's putting slumps on magnets being buried underneath the green. 

[ChipStrokes]

8 hours ago, Valtiel said:

I remember a youtube comment that blamed one of Tiger's putting slumps on magnets being buried underneath the green. 

[KMeloney]

17 hours ago, Zitlow said:

Because you're trying to do too much with your hands, wrists and forearms which introduce too many variables. 

 

 

 

Maybe. So what "sequence" gets your wrists automatically hinging early (unlike some pros) and on-plane?

[Zitlow]

2 hours ago, KMeloney said:

 

Maybe. So what "sequence" gets your wrists automatically hinging early (unlike some pros) and on-plane?

 

Artificially extending the right arm in an effort to swing the club wide down the target line is what introduces all the variables including balance issues. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[johnrobison]

22 minutes ago, Zitlow said:

 

Artificially extending the right arm in an effort to swing the club wide down the target line is what introduces all the variables including balance issues. 

 

"Artificially"??? Either it's straightening or it's not. How would it be artificial?

[Zitlow]

19 hours ago, johnrobison said:

"Artificially"??? Either it's straightening or it's not. How would it be artificial?

Maybe I should have said over extending or locking the right elbow by trying to swing the club in a linear motion vs a circular motion. 

[RoyalTroon]

No need to create more of anything, especially width, if you properly use what you already have, what you were born with.   

 

 

 

 

 

[Zitlow]

16 minutes ago, BALLYBUNION said:

No need to create more of anything, especially width, if you properly use what you already have, what you were born with.   

 

 

 

 

 

They try to make the club conform to the static plane established at address instead of swinging the club dynamically on a rotating plane. 

 

Everyone could hit the ball a lot harder by syncing the club up with their pivots. 

[johnrobison]

1 hour ago, Zitlow said:

Maybe I should have said over extending or locking the right elbow by trying to swing the club in a linear motion vs a circular motion. 

Not sure that I've ever seen anyone do that. Who does and who advocates for it?

 

33 minutes ago, BALLYBUNION said:

No need to create more of anything, especially width, if you properly use what you already have, what you were born with.   

That's pretty obtuse. Care to elaborate?

[Zitlow]

@johnrobison See if this helps clear things up for you.

 

 

 

[KMeloney]

38 minutes ago, johnrobison said:

Not sure that I've ever seen anyone do that. Who does and who advocates for it?

 

I think people who chase getting "wide" in the backswing, or try to keep the trail arm above the lead arm, or who use a "one piece takeaway" trying to "keep the triangle intact."

[johnrobison]

30 minutes ago, Zitlow said:

@johnrobison See if this helps clear things up for you.

 

 Thanks for all of your valuable contributions to these discussions 😒

Edited June 1, 2023 by johnrobison

[iacas]

7 hours ago, KMeloney said:

I think people who chase getting "wide" in the backswing, or try to keep the trail arm above the lead arm, or who use a "one piece takeaway" trying to "keep the triangle intact."

 

I have students do those things all the time. Heck, I'll often even draw something like this…

 

Now, these tend to be students who… bend their trail elbow 120°, bend their lead elbow 45°+, and who turn about 65°… but still.

 

Being "wide" is good, generally. Keeping the triangle intact a bit longer is generally good for many golfers. Seeing the trail elbow above the lead longer is generally good for a lot of golfers. And so on.

[KMeloney]

12 hours ago, iacas said:

 

I have students do those things all the time. Heck, I'll often even draw something like this…

 

Now, these tend to be students who… bend their trail elbow 120°, bend their lead elbow 45°+, and who turn about 65°… but still.

 

Being "wide" is good, generally. Keeping the triangle intact a bit longer is generally good for many golfers. Seeing the trail elbow above the lead longer is generally good for a lot of golfers. And so on.

 

I was answering a question above, and wasn't saying that any of these actions are wrong -- just that sometimes chasing these things, especially too much so/improperly, can lead to what Zitlow was suggesting.