If I cut down g400 max from 45.5 to 44.5 what weight would I need?

[sumo101]

Hey Jag - yes it was quite an "unusual" conversation.

 

To be fair to the fitter he did ring his "guru" and was told that PING could build down to about 42" without too much trouble. So he was trying his best to help and understand.

 

I guess most fitters just try and get as close as they can to good Trackman numbers by "tweaking" shafts and lofts as opposed to doing the full analysis piece - on demos they're probably targeted for sales etc.

 

At the end of the day PING got a happy customer AND the "shorter driver shaft evangelists" on GOLFWRX got another convert :taunt:

 

WIN/WIN

[Stuart_G]

To really be fair one has to understand that here in this forum, we take for granted a lot of education and understanding of the fitting process that never makes it to 99% of all the people doing 'fittings' in the real world. Largely thanks to the amazing contributions and time spent here by folks like Tom Wishon and Howard Jones (and large number of folks that have absorbed and keep it alive by continuing to recycle that information and knowledge).

[sumo101]

Stuart G - agree 100%

[Valtiel]

To really be fair one has to understand that here in this forum, we take for granted a lot of education and understanding of the fitting process that never makes it to 99% of all the people doing 'fittings' in the real world. Largely thanks to the amazing contributions and time spent here by folks like Tom Wishon and Howard Jones (and large number of folks that have absorbed and keep it alive by continuing to recycle that information and knowledge).

Stuart G - agree 100%

 

Same!

 

I disagree a bit with the point earlier though that adding back the weight after cutting down the driver to return to the original SW is by default a bad idea and "will make the driver feel terrible". I find this can be true when adding back weight to compensate for things that "trick" the SW scale (counter weights, heavier grips etc) but not for things like shortening shafts which do not trick the scale at all.

 

Stuart is correct though in that the best thing you can do is start adding back weight until it feels good to you. Just because the driver started at D2 doesn't mean thats what is perfect for you, unless you spent a lot of time already dialing in that particular number.

[Jagpilotohio]

To really be fair one has to understand that here in this forum, we take for granted a lot of education and understanding of the fitting process that never makes it to 99% of all the people doing 'fittings' in the real world. Largely thanks to the amazing contributions and time spent here by folks like Tom Wishon and Howard Jones (and large number of folks that have absorbed and keep it alive by continuing to recycle that information and knowledge).

Stuart G - agree 100%

 

Same!

 

I disagree a bit with the point earlier though that adding back the weight after cutting down the driver to return to the original SW is by default a bad idea and "will make the driver feel terrible". I find this can be true when adding back weight to compensate for things that "trick" the SW scale (counter weights, heavier grips etc) but not for things like shortening shafts which do not trick the scale at all.

 

Stuart is correct though in that the best thing you can do is start adding back weight until it feels good to you. Just because the driver started at D2 doesn't mean thats what is perfect for you, unless you spent a lot of time already dialing in that particular number.

 

This is one thing that I have always had a somewhat strong personal opinion on and others have not always agreed with.

 

I PERSONALLY think that returning a cut down driver to the same, or nearly the same swingweight is almost essential for having success and liking the club for the long term. I have seen many, many people try a shorter driver and dislike it. I ask them how much weight they added back to the head and they almost always say very little to none.

 

If you have always played a “standard” D-3 driver, and D-3 fairway woods, and D-2 hybrids, and D-1 to D-2 irons, and D-3 to D-5 wedges, what are the odds that when you cut down a driver an inch or more and it ends up in the mid to high C range that you are actually going to like it? The odds are very low. Most people hate it and it’s a very short experiment.

 

Why would it possibly make sense that having just one unusually light headed club among your whole set would be a good idea? The whole point of swingweighting is to develop a consistent head weight “feel” bewteen all of your clubs. All are in the D range and then you want to throw one club into the mix at C-6?? That is a obvious recipe for failure.

 

I will never say that the club must to go back to exactly the same SW as before the cutting, but I will say that the likelihood of it being a successful experiment is FAR greater If it is at least very close to that original number.

 

I personally play my driver at 43.5”. It’s essentially a long 3 wood. Why would I not want it at a 3 wood swingweight?? Well....I do. It’s D-3.

 

My 3 wood and 5 wood are both an inch under standard. They are both hot melted back to D-3.

 

My hybrid is an inch under standard. It is hotmelted back to D-2.

 

All of my irons range from D-2 to D-4 in the wedges....Consistency...Very important.

 

Everyone certainly experiment as you like, but very few people will like an unusually light Swingweight on a driver.

[Valtiel]

To really be fair one has to understand that here in this forum, we take for granted a lot of education and understanding of the fitting process that never makes it to 99% of all the people doing 'fittings' in the real world. Largely thanks to the amazing contributions and time spent here by folks like Tom Wishon and Howard Jones (and large number of folks that have absorbed and keep it alive by continuing to recycle that information and knowledge).

Stuart G - agree 100%

 

Same!

 

I disagree a bit with the point earlier though that adding back the weight after cutting down the driver to return to the original SW is by default a bad idea and "will make the driver feel terrible". I find this can be true when adding back weight to compensate for things that "trick" the SW scale (counter weights, heavier grips etc) but not for things like shortening shafts which do not trick the scale at all.

 

Stuart is correct though in that the best thing you can do is start adding back weight until it feels good to you. Just because the driver started at D2 doesn't mean thats what is perfect for you, unless you spent a lot of time already dialing in that particular number.

 

This is one thing that I have always had a somewhat strong personal opinion on and others have not always agreed with.

 

I PERSONALLY think that returning a cut down driver to the same, or nearly the same swingweight is almost essential for having success and liking the club for the long term. I have seen many, many people try a shorter driver and dislike it. I ask them how much weight they added back to the head and they almost always say very little to none.

 

If you have always played a “standard” D-3 driver, and D-3 fairway woods, and D-2 hybrids, and D-1 to D-2 irons, and D-3 to D-5 wedges, what are the odds that when you cut down a driver an inch or more and it ends up in the mid to high C range that you are actually going to like it? The odds are very low. Most people hate it and it’s a very short experiment.

 

Why would it possibly make sense that having just one unusually light headed club among your whole set would be a good idea? The whole point of swingweighting is to develop a consistent head weight “feel” bewteen all of your clubs. All are in the D range and then you want to throw one club into the mix at C-6?? That is a obvious recipe for failure.

 

I will never say that the club must to go back to exactly the same SW as before the cutting, but I will say that the likelihood of it being a successful experiment is FAR greater If it is at least very close to that original number.

 

I personally play my driver at 43.5”. It’s essentially a long 3 wood. Why would I not want it at a 3 wood swingweight?? Well....I do. It’s D-3.

 

My 3 wood and 5 wood are both an inch under standard. They are both hot melted back to D-3.

 

My hybrid is an inch under standard. It is hotmelted back to D-2.

 

All of my irons range from D-2 to D-4 in the wedges....Consistency...Very important.

 

Everyone certainly experiment as you like, but very few people will like an unusually light Swingweight on a driver.

 

Agreed. I think the appeal of the lighter feeling driver can cause people to think they're going to like it initially but it very quickly starts feeling alien when compared to the rest of the set. I played a 43.5" Titleist 975J years ago and I felt like I couldn't miss with it because of the length. However that began to wear off when the feel was just too disconnected from the rest of the set. I want to experiment with that again though in 2018 tech, thinking about a G400 Max cut down as the big time fairway finder club. Definitely need to employ the hotmelt though, my drivers are normally around D8 as you know. :D

[delmer]

Thinking about cutting down my g400 max to 44.5 and I have the standard weight in the head - what weight would I need to get from ping to even out the swingweight change? I cut down my previous driver 917 D2 from 45.5 to 44" and hated it, couldn't feel the clubface at all so I want to make sure I adjust the SW this time. I have the tour 65x shaft in it if it matters, thanks.

 

About 2" above your post is a nice informational thread called swing weight in relation to parts. It's pinned up there because it offers a good generalization that will answer your question.

 

As you'll find if you ask a simple question on here you will open up a heated debate. It's hard to believe that people can have such passionate strong feelings about the swing weight of a golf club but you will see the arguments flare.

[Stuart_G]

If it were that simple, there would be no basis or room for the discussions to get so 'heated'. The wide range of opinions exist because the sw system does not work equally or the same for everyone. And it's just another example that the concept of "a good generalization" is more often an oxymoron than not when it comes to fitting.

 

Although, while there are differences of opinion, it really doesn't get all that hot. Now start a discussion about blades vs anything or FLO/SST Pure and shaft alignment and then you'll see some heat generated :-)

 

The bottom line is that the swing weight scale and concept (along with those "rules" in that thread) - while very useful in some limited contexts - is imperfect at best and frequently misunderstood and misused. All you have to do is look at an MOI matched iron set which will vary in swing weight 4 sw pts and that's only a difference in playing length of maybe 3". Go to a driver and that's another 5+" length difference even for a cut down driver and that has the potential to be another 6-7 sw pts lighter to get the same MOI. Then you throw in the variations in shaft weight and shaft balance point and it get's even more distorted and confusing.

[Ri_Redneck]

Just got back from testing things out for about an hour with my fitter. Ended up leaving knowing 1) I hit the g400max more accurate than the m4 and about the same distance 2) I needed 10.5 head so we swapped out my 9* 3) we decided on 44.5” so inch off what I had it at.

 

He advised I try it out and if I want weight he can stick weight down in the bottom of the shaft and plug it or I can order a heavier weight.

 

I have the standard 7g weight in mine what weight would I need to order 16 or 18?

 

NO! Do not let him weight the shaft like that!! He should know better. Change the weight in the head or use hotmelt.

 

BT

[scott_Donald]

Just got back from testing things out for about an hour with my fitter. Ended up leaving knowing 1) I hit the g400max more accurate than the m4 and about the same distance 2) I needed 10.5 head so we swapped out my 9* 3) we decided on 44.5” so inch off what I had it at.

 

He advised I try it out and if I want weight he can stick weight down in the bottom of the shaft and plug it or I can order a heavier weight.

 

I have the standard 7g weight in mine what weight would I need to order 16 or 18?

 

NO! Do not let him weight the shaft like that!! He should know better. Change the weight in the head or use hotmelt.

 

BT

 

why not? love learning all this club building info.

[Kuuuch]

If I have the standard 7g weight in mine and I cut it from 45.5 to 44.5 what weight would I need to order? I’ve had a bunch of PM’s about weights so might as well buy one and try it but I’m not sure what the correct weight would be to buy

[Jagpilotohio]

That pro shaft you said you have comes 45.25 stock from the factory, not 45.5.

 

So You’re only chopping off .75. I told you in a previous post, if you don’t want the SW to change at all you need to add 3.75 X 1.6 gram = 6 grams.

 

If you want to shorten a full inch to 44.25” then you need to add 5 X 1.6 = 8 grams.

 

You need a 13 or a 15 gram weight. And 1 gram either way isn’t a big deal if those arent available.. Just get close. I dont know what you have to choose from.

[ode1]

Yes I did - I'd been playing the G driver and gripping down about half way to get some consistency.

I did a static measure and read loads of stuff on here (the club making forum - now that's a parallel universe!! BUT incredibly helpful) including Tom Wishon's take on driver length - broadly no average golfer should be playing a driver at more than 44" - AND I'm a very average golfer.....

So at the demo day I asked for a shorter shaft (according to Tom Wishon's charts I should be at 43.5") - we put the Alta 3 wood shaft into the Max head and the rest as they say is history...

IIRC - launch angle about perfect, clubhead speed up and ball speed up about 10mph carry was up about 25yards (admittedly these were Trackman figures but were vs my own G driver). Fitter wasn't too keen on going as low as 43.5" but the Trackman figures convinced me.

Roll forward to REAL WORLD testing - I've hit some of the best drives I've seen BUT more importantly I'm on the fairway as opposed to behind a tree.....so to say I'm happy with my choice would be an understatement

And I think it's appropriate to say thanks to the members on here AND Tom Wishon for convincing me that shorter was the way forward.

Cheers

Sumo

 

Typical. Great numbers and happy with the club at 43.5” but the fitter tries to talk you out of it.

 

So many “fitters” can’t deal with the idea of anything less than about 44”. Sadly, Only a tiny percentage would ever suggest trying it at 43.5”. Every time I try a new driver at a shop I use a 3 wood shaft or I bring my own driver shaft if I have one with the proper tip. I also always bring my own lead tape to slap about 12 grams of weight on it so it doesn’t feel like a feather.

 

I’ve been at 43.5” since the mid 90’s. I don’t care how long the idiot manufacturers chose to make the damn things. 43.5” for life for me.

 

Sad thing is that 3 woods are being played at 43.5" wtf....IMO that is crazier than a 45.75" driver.

[Kuuuch]

That pro shaft you said you have comes 45.25 stock from the factory, not 45.5.

 

So You’re only chopping off .75. I told you in a previous post, if you don’t want the SW to change at all you need to add 3.75 X 1.6 gram = 6 grams.

 

If you want to shorten a full inch to 44.25” then you need to add 5 X 1.6 = 8 grams.

 

You need a 13 or a 15 gram weight. And 1 gram either way isn’t a big deal if those arent available.. Just get close. I dont know what you have to choose from.

 

It’s the older tour shaft (one for ping g) and I measured it at 45.5 but thank you for providing this I appreciate it!

[nginoza]

Hi All

 

I have a thought that swapping out the weight in the heavier back would impact the MOI and launch and ball higher with more spin?

Where would you put 12 grams of additional weight in the head to be the same spin and flight before additional weight.

I am thinking of getting a g400 Mac and cutting it down even though my fitter said I hit the g400 last the best like like the max as it is easier and more consistent but spins higher.

[Ri_Redneck]

Just got back from testing things out for about an hour with my fitter. Ended up leaving knowing 1) I hit the g400max more accurate than the m4 and about the same distance 2) I needed 10.5 head so we swapped out my 9* 3) we decided on 44.5” so inch off what I had it at.

 

He advised I try it out and if I want weight he can stick weight down in the bottom of the shaft and plug it or I can order a heavier weight.

 

I have the standard 7g weight in mine what weight would I need to order 16 or 18?

 

NO! Do not let him weight the shaft like that!! He should know better. Change the weight in the head or use hotmelt.

 

BT

 

why not? love learning all this club building info.

 

That weighting procedure is for steel shafts only. Graphite shaft internal diameter is far smaller and the lead powder will fill the shaft several inches above the hosel. Also, the corks normally used will stop about midway between the butt and tip, instead of near the tip as it would in a steel shaft, because of the shaft ID. Weighting should only be done with tip weights or in the head when dealing with graphite shafts.

 

BT

[Tommy_H]

Being very much a noob with the technicalities of a golf club, this is a very educative thread for me. So thanks everybody. Only one quick question at this point: When one speaks of "tipping" the shaft, that means cutting it off at the end that goes into the hosel (or adapter), right?

 

I have the opportunity to buy a nice Titleist 917F2 #3 fairway wood but the club length is 44" which is 1" longer than Titleist standard and what I actually want. So cutting down the shaft by 1" and reweighting it is an option. I wonder though if I should simply avoid the trouble alltogether and look for a standard length club. I actually lean towards the latter, to be honest.

[flip flappy]

This thread has been really informative. I appreciate all that have contributed. I finally bought a G400 Max a few weeks ago after playing Tilteist drivers for the last several years. I Have a 910 D2 and 913 D3 and they both have Diamana Kai'li shafts that are standard 45" in length. My Max has the 45.75" Alta CB 55 . After a few times at the course and after reading this thread, I decided to try a shorter shaft. I didn't really want to cut the Alta just in case the Max didn't work out and I needed to sell it. I ordered a couple of Ping adapters and pulled the adapters off of one of the Kai'li from the 910 and also from a Diamana Whiteboard that I had in an R11. I have not changed the weight yet but do need to order one. I hit them both today and liked the results although I did have a rattle that I found out was the weight that I had not tightened up quite enough while checking the stamping. Should the weight be tightened until the tool clicks just like a shaft installation?

[Kuuuch]

Agree with 2 above posts, this thread has been super helpful. I am very happy I cut my driver down to 44.5" it feels perfect for me at 6' 3". I also got my 13 gram weight in today and I can definitely tell a difference in feel - ball flight is a little higher but not too high. I am certainly more sensitive to changes in SW than I think most just judging by some of the replies to this thread.

[bellken]

Should the weight be tightened until the tool clicks just like a shaft installation?

 

Yes, tighten until the tool clicks.

[avguy]

I have typically gone with drivers shorter after butt-cutting them and adding in either stock or aftermarket screw headweights. Specifically, this worked well with Titleist D2 910 down to 44", Callaway RF down to a 43.5". For both, I replaced stock shafts with new aftermarket.

 

However, I'm not certain in this thread if anybody brought up those shaft results which happen when shortening from handle side, adding weight to head. It basically softens up the tip, alot. I feel like my stiff UST PF Black 69 is closer to R flex now. No worries! :yes: I like the higher launch being that I leave the 910 in standard A1 hosel for a loft of 9.5. I still get decent carry height.

 

So, I am also interested in either the G400 or its Max later, but shortening that stock Alta CB via a butt cut may be a flex issue? I bet the added headweight leaves one with a noodle if you cut 1 in. or more. Probably need an aftermarket, meatier shaft for the shorter G400/Max driver.

[sumo101]

Avguy - my G400 Max was built by Ping with their stock Alta CB Stiff (see all the posts above)

 

I'm not in a position to say how the 55g shaft was trimmed but to me it doesn't play like a noodle despite having the 18g weight in the head.

 

Having said that I definitely don't have a GolfWRX swing speed - also, for me at least, the fairway Alta CB Stiff at 65g with the standard head weight in the Max worked well.

 

Learning from all the contributors to this thread (and forum) all the time so please feel free to take my observations with a pinch of salt :beruo:

I had a look at some shaft manufacturers "trimming charts" so maybe that would be a good place to start? But as I said we're already way beyond my own comprehension :read:

Cheers

[Rohlio]

43.5 is the money spot for me... I converted my g400 lst a few months ago. I like my clubs to feel heavy D6 is where I typically end up.

 

I switched the weight to the 18 gram, went up

To an 80 gram shaft, tipped it for a 3 wood, then added nearly 12 grams worth of yarn into the head through the tiny a** hole under the weight (took forever) ...

 

Result: plays and sounds amazing.

[avguy]

43.5 is the money spot for me... I converted my g400 lst a few months ago. I like my clubs to feel heavy D6 is where I typically end up.

 

I switched the weight to the 18 gram, went up

To an 80 gram shaft, tipped it for a 3 wood, then added nearly 12 grams worth of yarn into the head through the tiny a** hole under the weight (took forever) ...

 

Result: plays and sounds amazing.

 

This beast tool you have created is more like Thor's Hammer than a graphite/titanium/steel golf club!

Nice one!

[flip flappy]

I played today for the second time since putting the Diamana Kai'li shaft (45") in my G400 Max and am really beginning to like it. Took me most of the front nine to settle into my swing but I hit some really nice drives on the back. I was able to really go after it and hit some bombs (for me) that were really straight and in the center of the fairway. I have not added the extra weight to the head yet but do feel it would help.

[Jagpilotohio]

I have typically gone with drivers shorter after butt-cutting them and adding in either stock or aftermarket screw headweights. Specifically, this worked well with Titleist D2 910 down to 44", Callaway RF down to a 43.5". For both, I replaced stock shafts with new aftermarket.

 

However, I'm not certain in this thread if anybody brought up those shaft results which happen when shortening from handle side, adding weight to head. It basically softens up the tip, alot. I feel like my stiff UST PF Black 69 is closer to R flex now. No worries! :yes: I like the higher launch being that I leave the 910 in standard A1 hosel for a loft of 9.5. I still get decent carry height.

 

So, I am also interested in either the G400 or its Max later, but shortening that stock Alta CB via a butt cut may be a flex issue? I bet the added headweight leaves one with a noodle if you cut 1 in. or more. Probably need an aftermarket, meatier shaft for the shorter G400/Max driver.

 

I deliberately didn’t bring it up the softening issue because OP was talking about just trimming one inch and adding back some weight.

 

You are quite correct in that the shaft plays softer after it is cut significantly and a lot of weight it’s added back to the head.

 

The reason you tip trim a 3 wood a half inch more than a driver is because the 3 wood head is significantly heavier than a driver head. Even though it is shorter, it needs to be tip trimmed more than the driver to play at a similar flex to the driver.

 

Similarly, a 5 wood is trimmed an additional 1/2 inch because it is a heavier head than the 3 wood head.

 

When you cut a driver down an inch and a half to two inches and add back 12-16 grams of weight to get the swingweight back up, it will definitely play noticeably softer. If you DONT WANT it to play softer, you need to tip trim it at least a half inch and butt trim the rest. Essentially treat it like a 3 wood shaft.

 

If you’re just trimming a half inch to an inch and adding back your weight, I really would never tell anyone to worry about tip trimming. The flex change is just too subtle.

[Bill Guy]

I have several Diamana blue S+ shafts in different drivers. Is the position of the "diamana" oval logo always the same in manufacture and therefor the distance to the but end an indicator of the trimming. I like the setup with a 915D2 head and would like to try repeat that with a G400 max head.

[tokeyb]

I have several Diamana blue S+ shafts in different drivers. Is the position of the "diamana" oval logo always the same in manufacture and therefor the distance to the but end an indicator of the trimming. I like the setup with a 915D2 head and would like to try repeat that with a G400 max head.

 

Oy, great question. How do you know if a shaft has been tip or butt trimmed previously? You are at an advantage already, playing same shaft in multiple sticks. I'm all over the place with 3 different OEM driver heads needing dofferent adapters, and 4 different shafts to play with.

 

Love the knowledge being dropped in these forums. Definitely going to swap on a 3 wood shaft, throw on some lead tape, and experiment! As soon as it warms up. Or the clubs simulator/trackman gets fixed.

[Quebec Club Ho]

I currently play a G400 max with a Ping tour 65 at 45.5 - I asked for it at D2 but came in at something like D5.

Further, I installed a Fuji Atmos at 45.5 and it played to @ D8. Most probably because the shaft isn't counterbalanced like a stock ping shaft. So I added lead tape to the grip end of the shaft and got it to play at D5 - playable. But I may just cut it to the length you're asking for 44.5 and it may play at something I'm more used to (@D2 or D3). Also used to playing drivers just under 45in.

So all this to say - maybe don't add any weight to the head - it may take care of itself when you cut it.

Good luck - hope it works for you!

[dunn]

You cant assume the same swingweight at 45.5 will feel same at 44.5.....made that mistake more than once

 

I would use lead tape to get the feel you want than order the corresponding weight