Tour Issue Clubs

[geno4952]

Just looking for an opinion or maybe some facts here. I occasionally look for new used stuff and I see that tour issue clubs and or club heads sell for outrageous prices when compared to the clubs us mortals use. What could possibly be the reason for this? If it's the specs tolerances are better or they are fitted better then it seems they wouldn't fit one of us anyway..... anyone have the answer??...or is the answer to this as mysterious as trying to figure out women.... lol!!

[BWTgolfer]

Sometimes just the tag "Tour Issue" could be worth a few hundred extra dollars but for the most part, shaft flexes, certain designs that are for tour payers, and like you said specs and tolerances could also play into the price. Me personally I could tell if my clubs were a few grams one way or another, tour players can.

[TollBros]

Just looking for an opinion or maybe some facts here. I occasionally look for new used stuff and I see that tour issue clubs and or club heads sell for outrageous prices when compared to the clubs us mortals use. What could possibly be the reason for this? If it's the specs tolerances are better or they are fitted better then it seems they wouldn't fit one of us anyway..... anyone have the answer??...or is the answer to this as mysterious as trying to figure out women.... lol!!

 

Often times there are Tour head designs that just are not available as retail products. The head shape, size, etc are all different from anything you can normally buy. There are also varying CG locations in many heads that you cannot buy retail. There is also the fact that you can pick the exact specs you want as opposed to rolling the dice and guessing since most heads will vary up to 1.5 degrees in loft and face angle. That's highly significant in the way the club performs. And by "one of us" I'm not sure what you mean. I deal with players with 110+ swing speeds who shoot in the 70's or better probably 25 times a day. Not everyone has a 85mph swing speed and shoots 100.

[MI517]

I deal with players with 110+ swing speeds who shoot in the 70's or better probably 25 times a day.

 

Wow! How fast do those guys play to get 25 rounds in a day? My best is 3.5! ?

[bladehunter]

Tour only lofts and the fact that most have hotmelt already and therefore sound and feel entirely different ( better ) than a stock head makes them worth near double. But if you shop you can get them for not much more. Proclubs In eBay is a good source. As is broken niblick on eBay. And tollbros above has some Taylormade tour issue on sale at their place too.

[geno4952]

Just looking for an opinion or maybe some facts here. I occasionally look for new used stuff and I see that tour issue clubs and or club heads sell for outrageous prices when compared to the clubs us mortals use. What could possibly be the reason for this? If it's the specs tolerances are better or they are fitted better then it seems they wouldn't fit one of us anyway..... anyone have the answer??...or is the answer to this as mysterious as trying to figure out women.... lol!!

 

Often times there are Tour head designs that just are not available as retail products. The head shape, size, etc are all different from anything you can normally buy. There are also varying CG locations in many heads that you cannot buy retail. There is also the fact that you can pick the exact specs you want as opposed to rolling the dice and guessing since most heads will vary up to 1.5 degrees in loft and face angle. That's highly significant in the way the club performs. And by "one of us" I'm not sure what you mean. I deal with players with 110+ swing speeds who shoot in the 70's or better probably 25 times a day. Not everyone has a 85mph swing speed and shoots 100.

 

....by one of us II meant mere mortals... not tour players...I don't have an 85 mph swing speed and shoot 100 either.... more like 100+ (not measured lately) and shoot in the 70"s as well,,,, you know... just one of the guys....

[geno4952]

I deal with players with 110+ swing speeds who shoot in the 70's or better probably 25 times a day.

 

Wow! How fast do those guys play to get 25 rounds in a day? My best is 3.5!

 

I was thinking that too... then I thought...naw.....let that one go...LOL!!!

[TexasCarlos]

HOTMELT!!!!!!!!! that and the stated lofts, and in some cases the head is smaller or tour inspired. Or a loft for a certain head that isnt retail.

[bladehunter]

I deal with players with 110+ swing speeds who shoot in the 70's or better probably 25 times a day.

 

Wow! How fast do those guys play to get 25 rounds in a day? My best is 3.5! ��

 

I was thinking that too... then I thought...naw.....let that one go...LOL!!!

 

He’s saying he deals with those players 25 times a day. Not they play 25 rounds a day. Goodness

 

 

He runs a testing lab. They test equipment using good fast players.

[MI517]

I deal with players with 110+ swing speeds who shoot in the 70's or better probably 25 times a day.

 

Wow! How fast do those guys play to get 25 rounds in a day? My best is 3.5! ��

 

I was thinking that too... then I thought...naw.....let that one go...LOL!!!

 

He’s saying he deals with those players 25 times a day. Not they play 25 rounds a day. Goodness

 

 

He runs a testing lab. They test equipment using good fast players.

 

Using the ambiguity of the wording to attempt humor. Won’t quit my day job.

[bladehunter]

Sorry. My sarcasm meter is often wrong. Probably worn out from following me around all day. Carry on.

[llewol007]

True when the average golfer doesn't hit the center of the face to take advantage of needing to know the specs of a golf club. But to a pga pro, if you want to know exactly what a clubs specs are it can matter a lot. Heck they are so good they can hit anything and probably make it perform better than I can, thats for sure.

[geno4952]

Tour only lofts and the fact that most have hotmelt already and therefore sound and feel entirely different ( better ) than a stock head makes them worth near double. But if you shop you can get them for not much more. Proclubs In eBay is a good source. As is broken niblick on eBay. And tollbros above has some Taylormade tour issue on sale at their place too.

 

Yeah I know about the hot melt that they use to basically change the swing weight and or sound of the club but the sound difference is definitely not worth double (to me anyway) and if there is too much hot melt in there you end up having either a high swing weight club or a shorter one to compensate. I was in the golf business for over 20 years and had many a set of irons made to my specs, loft. lie, length, swing weight etc... but I never felt they were that much better than any off the rack ones just they were fit to me for what I wanted. One example of crazy markups I have seen on eBay (at one of the sites you mentioned) was a SCOTTY CAMERON TOUR FUTURA X 7M FLOW NECK CIRCLE-T PUTTER for $2700.00... one without the circle T markings according to the PGA value guide is worth an average of $145.00 used... is that Circle T worth $2550.00?? I suppose someone out there that wants to be able to say their SC is a tour issue club to impress the boys will buy it but I never understood how a SC copy of a ping putter could sell for (back in the day) $295.00 anyway. I guess it's just me so bear with me... getting old is a b****... avoid it at all costs....

 

 

Edit: Bladehunter... please accept my sincerest apology for the wise crack about the bragging on a putter.... I honestly didn't see what putter you were gaming. If I had one of those it would never see the outdoors...I know now they are somewhat of a collectors item and there was no insult intended......Peace

[95124hacker]

I used to hunt eBay using search words like Tour Issue, Tour Van, Prototype, Rare, Collector’s Item, etc because I like to own unique clubs no one else have seen in person.

 

Now I have other priorities and responsibilities but still like seeing pictures of other people’s special clubs!

[geno4952]

HOTMELT!!!!!!!!! that and the stated lofts, and in some cases the head is smaller or tour inspired. Or a loft for a certain head that isnt retail.

 

HOTMELT!!!!! = hot glue that doesn't get hard.....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEthYYoiHhU but I can dig the custom lofts and smaller heads and such

[TexasCarlos]

HOTMELT!!!!!!!!! that and the stated lofts, and in some cases the head is smaller or tour inspired. Or a loft for a certain head that isnt retail.

 

HOTMELT!!!!! = hot glue that doesn't get hard.....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEthYYoiHhU but I can dig the custom lofts and smaller heads and such

 

another good reason is usually already upgraded shafts, I usually go a year behind to get them cheap. Hell I have a Deep Face M2 3 wood now that was 2 bills with a $400 shaft, Back up head near mint with the specs was 120. Compared to brand new stuff its cheaper and a little more detail oriented.

[kcsf]

Tour only lofts and the fact that most have hotmelt already and therefore sound and feel entirely different ( better ) than a stock head makes them worth near double. But if you shop you can get them for not much more. Proclubs In eBay is a good source. As is broken niblick on eBay. And tollbros above has some Taylormade tour issue on sale at their place too.

 

Yeah I know about the hot melt that they use to basically change the swing weight and or sound of the club but the sound difference is definitely not worth double (to me anyway) and if there is too much hot melt in there you end up having either a high swing weight club or a shorter one to compensate. I was in the golf business for over 20 years and had many a set of irons made to my specs, loft. lie, length, swing weight etc... but I never felt they were that much better than any off the rack ones just they were fit to me for what I wanted. One example of crazy markups I have seen on eBay (at one of the sites you mentioned) was a SCOTTY CAMERON TOUR FUTURA X 7M FLOW NECK CIRCLE-T PUTTER for $2700.00... one without the circle T markings according to the PGA value guide is worth an average of $145.00 used... is that Circle T worth $2550.00?? I suppose someone out there that wants to be able to say their SC is a tour issue club to impress the boys will buy it but I never understood how a SC copy of a ping putter could sell for (back in the day) $295.00 anyway. I guess it's just me so bear with me... getting old is a b****... avoid it at all costs....

 

 

 

 

Most will agree with you that SC are overpriced, but he will always have his followers.

 

:deadhorse:

[geno4952]

HOTMELT!!!!!!!!! that and the stated lofts, and in some cases the head is smaller or tour inspired. Or a loft for a certain head that isnt retail.

 

HOTMELT!!!!! = hot glue that doesn't get hard.....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEthYYoiHhU but I can dig the custom lofts and smaller heads and such

 

another good reason is usually already upgraded shafts, I usually go a year behind to get them cheap. Hell I have a Deep Face M2 3 wood now that was 2 bills with a $400 shaft, Back up head near mint with the specs was 120. Compared to brand new stuff its cheaper and a little more detail oriented.

 

You got a heck of a deal... most of the heads I've seen were anywhere from 300 to almost 500 bucks... and if they were cheaper they were almost always hybrid heads......

[Golfingfanatic]

There are also a lot of iron models that are tour only.

Taylormade B and C heads were all the rage a couple of years ago.

[TollBros]

True when the average golfer doesn't hit the center of the face to take advantage of needing to know the specs of a golf club. But to a pga pro, if you want to know exactly what a clubs specs are it can matter a lot. Heck they are so good they can hit anything and probably make it perform better than I can, thats for sure.

 

The average hacker shooting 110 and driving it 190 yards won't see any benefit from anything other than the most forgiving products they can get their hands on. However, there are a TON of excellent players who certainly do benefit from known specs or Tour cg placements. Tour issue product isn't for everyone for sure, but the guys who do benefit do so in a big way.

[Rosco1216]

For someone who spent 20 years in the golf business, I'm a bit amazed you even have to ask. I go "tour issue" in drivers because I can get exactly what I know I need. Loft, face angle, weight. The more speed you generate, the more differences in loft and face angle affect where the ball goes. Not to mention, we are usually just interested in the head because we already have multiple high-end shafts lying around.

 

Maybe I should start a thread asking why "mere mortals" spend $500 retail for an OTR driver with stock shaft when you can get a tour issue head for the same price $400-$600.

[cgasucks]

Just looking for an opinion or maybe some facts here. I occasionally look for new used stuff and I see that tour issue clubs and or club heads sell for outrageous prices when compared to the clubs us mortals use. What could possibly be the reason for this? If it's the specs tolerances are better or they are fitted better then it seems they wouldn't fit one of us anyway..... anyone have the answer??...or is the answer to this as mysterious as trying to figure out women.... lol!!

 

Economics 101

 

Supply = Demand

 

Tour issue stuff aren't as plentiful at its retail version and obviously more people would prefer the tour van versions because of its tight spec tolerances, and its allure.

[TollBros]

For someone who spent 20 years in the golf business, I'm a bit amazed you even have to ask. I go "tour issue" in drivers because I can get exactly what I know I need. Loft, face angle, weight. The more speed you generate, the more differences in loft and face angle affect where the ball goes. Not to mention, we are usually just interested in the head because we already have multiple high-end shafts lying around.

 

Maybe I should start a thread asking why "mere mortals" spend $500 retail for an OTR driver with stock shaft when you can get a tour issue head for the same price $400-$600.

 

Agreed. I'd choose last seasons Tour driver with known specs, at at a similar price, 100/100 times over this years off the rack retail club that I have no idea of what I'm really getting. Also, many of the heads are made with higher material grade faces for increased durability, which really is something to consider once you get up at 110+ in speed. I seriously have not played any retail wood in the last 10 years.

[geno4952]

For someone who spent 20 years in the golf business, I'm a bit amazed you even have to ask. I go "tour issue" in drivers because I can get exactly what I know I need. Loft, face angle, weight. The more speed you generate, the more differences in loft and face angle affect where the ball goes. Not to mention, we are usually just interested in the head because we already have multiple high-end shafts lying around.

 

Maybe I should start a thread asking why "mere mortals" spend $500 retail for an OTR driver with stock shaft when you can get a tour issue head for the same price $400-$600.

 

Agreed. I'd choose last seasons Tour driver with known specs, at at a similar price, 100/100 times over this years off the rack retail club that I have no idea of what I'm really getting. Also, many of the heads are made with higher material grade faces for increased durability, which really is something to consider once you get up at 110+ in speed. I seriously have not played any retail wood in the last 10 years.

 

As long as you go to a reputable golf shop that has the where with all (equipment and knowledge) to do it you can measure all those specs...loft, lie. weight....etc... in fact I used to have a loft and lie machine in my basement until I moved and had no place to put it. That way I could tweak my clubs every once in a while to make sure they were up to snuff. One thing I did neglect to think about before was I was used to getting all my clubs with a PUD.. sometimes free... so 500.00 for a head just seems out of line to me. As far as getting up to 110+ mph... I'm almost 67 so it ain't happening....I'm grateful to still be over100+

[geno4952]

For someone who spent 20 years in the golf business, I'm a bit amazed you even have to ask. I go "tour issue" in drivers because I can get exactly what I know I need. Loft, face angle, weight. The more speed you generate, the more differences in loft and face angle affect where the ball goes. Not to mention, we are usually just interested in the head because we already have multiple high-end shafts lying around.

 

Maybe I should start a thread asking why "mere mortals" spend $500 retail for an OTR driver with stock shaft when you can get a tour issue head for the same price $400-$600.

 

In my experience the old adage...you can't buy a better game.... holds true.....I know plenty of players both very good and not so good that have spent thousands of dollars on equipment and their hdcp index hasn't really improved at all...not more fairways or greens hit than they did with their old clubs... as far as having "multiple high-end shafts lying around" not everyone can afford to buy high-end shafts and let them just lie around. Why do guys spend 500 bucks for an otr driver/... because they know the tour issue alternative will not help them anyway....if they even have any idea you can buy tour issue golf equipment..... most probably don't... not everybody knows how to build clubs and do club repair... ok... rant over..... Peace

[MattyO1984]

Something being Tour Issue is likely going to have no impact on 99.9999% of players. The Tour Issue label serves only one purpose for the consumer and that is to make an item more desirable. Case in point Scotty and the For Tour Use Only stamping on putters and headcovers. There are so much of them out there that it is quite clear that they are not simply for tour use only but as long as they are still labelled like that people will want to buy them because it is the only way that they are going to come close to being out there on tour.

[geno4952]

Just an FYI to those who read this.... golfdealsandsteals dot com has 2 TM tour issue heads available... there are 56 variations from 8.3* to 9.9* available in the 9.5* alone and several of each variation available as well. All include the spec sticker and they are 450 bucks each... there is also a 10.5* available with more than 56 variations .........

 

peace

[dunn]

For the most part it's just tailor fitted to specific player......that's really about it....still has to conform to USGA

 

Had a few different "tour heads" and was same as my retail for me.....currently still have a M1 440 tour head that I dont use, paid $200 new.....I wouldn't spend alot of money on one, not worth it

 

Really fine fine tuning can make huge difference to guys that with 1 extra putt per round can alter their paycheck, amazing how small the avgs are on tour but significant they can be in the end

[Walter]

I love watching the pictures of Circle T : special editions SC, but what exactly is the difference between the circle T model and the one you get from SC shop?