58 or 60 degree wedge?

[Chuck905]

> @D0ch0l1d4y said:

> > @Chuck905 said:

> > > @Fairways_and_Greens said:

> > > > @Chuck905 said:

> > > > I’ve experimented with 54, 56, 58, 60, 64 and learned what works for me is not full shot gaps from the fairway but green side options.

> > > >

> > > > Hence, my LW is 60* with high bounce and my SW is 56* with medium bounce, helps me out of the rough and bunkers under any scenario.

> > > >

> > > > Partial shots from the fairway I am able to hit with my PW at 48*.

> > >

> > > Did you get your P bent 2 degrees weak?

> > >

> > Yes, 46* to 48*. I think my 6-7-8-9-PW are 2* weak.

> >

> > The 5 is 1* weak and the 3-4 are stock (21*-24*).

> >

> > PW is my strength so a GW is redundant.

> >

>

> I love my PW at 48*. I have a GW that I love and am the most consistent with, so I used that as the baseline for my yardage gapping. 125y-GW, 140y-PW....58* LW at 105.

 

Wow 140 PW lol.

 

Everybody is different; I grew up with a 2 iron and PW as a set, so experimenting with a GW wasn’t for me because I was always able to flight and sod off PW to a GW distance knowing it will always get to the intended yardage. Whereas a GW, it can still upshoot on me similar to a SW from the fairway.

 

The only downside I have experience with knockdown PW is if I am required fly it high with maximized spin to a picnic sized bench, but that is very rare and I am not that good of a target shooter.

 

A knockdown PW to the middle of the green with a 20 foot birdie putt is more than satisfactory by my standards.

 

 

[Benkross]

Regardless of loft, your grind and bounce matter way more. There are 4 main grinds. On lob wedges if you play lots of open faced shots you need (Vokey grinds) M Grind or L Grind (if you play in Rock hard conditions). I just got my first K grind (wide sole, lots of bounce) and I love it got chipping, but definitely harder to use off hard ground. I also have a Hi Toe for when summer comes. You use this wedge a lot. Buy a few and try what works.

[Doyouevenblade]

It looks like Im in the minority....

 

I have used 50/54/58 forever and went 52/58 last year. I didnt like it and decided to try 50/54/60 this year. I have fallen in LOVE with the 60. That little bit of extra loft seems to be huge around the greens for me personally. You can open up a 58 and 60 but the 60 will always have more loft...

 

Disclaimer: I NEVER hit my 58/60 full. That isn’t even on my radar.

[y2zar]

Would definitely go with consistent loft gap, I'm using the setup 50/54/58 degrees here.

Another important factors also are the bounces of the wedges w/ mine 50*@10*bounce, 54*@14*bounce & 58*@8*bounce. These will cover a lot of various shots needed in any conditions, so bounces are crucial especially on wedges.

[joshmc0430]

I'd go with the 58* to keep a constant 4* of loft between the wedges.

[sixfootnick]

Why does the loft of your last wedge matter for gapping? There's no difference between 50-54-58 and 50-54-60 as far as usability.

[Galunga]

My 58° Callaway PM Grind with 10° bounce works best for me. My SW is 54° / 13°, so the 58° works well. I use the my 58° around greens for short pitches with partial swings. I very rarely use it for full swings.

[cane700]

I switched to 58 last year from 60 and haven't looked back. It goes plenty high when needed and still keeps the gaps consistent if I need a full swing.

[RacineBoxer]

> @Doyouevenblade said:

> It looks like Im in the minority....

>

> I have used 50/54/58 forever and went 52/58 last year. I didnt like it and decided to try 50/54/60 this year. I have fallen in LOVE with the 60. That little bit of extra loft seems to be huge around the greens for me personally. You can open up a 58 and 60 but the 60 will always have more loft...

>

> Disclaimer: I NEVER hit my 58/60 full. That isn’t even on my radar.

 

You aren't in the minority. As of this moment here is what the top 10 of the Masters are using:

Molinari: 50, 56, 60

Day: 50, 54, 60

Koepka: 52, 56, 60

DJ: 52, 60, 64

Harding: 50, 54, 60

Poulter: 52, 56, 60

Scott: 52, 56, 60

Rahm: 52, 56, 60

Kuchar: 52, 56, 62

Kizzire: 52, 56, 60

[Power fade]

> @Doyouevenblade said:

> It looks like Im in the minority....

>

> I have used 50/54/58 forever and went 52/58 last year. I didnt like it and decided to try 50/54/60 this year. I have fallen in LOVE with the 60. That little bit of extra loft seems to be huge around the greens for me personally. You can open up a 58 and 60 but the 60 will always have more loft...

>

> Disclaimer: I NEVER hit my 58/60 full. That isn’t even on my radar.

 

I completely agree here. Carried 50/54/58 for 3 years because I liked the idea of of a 4° gap between wedges. Realized I never hit full shots with my 58 so there's was no need for symmetrical gapping. Went to a wide soled 60° last fall and I'll never go back to a 58°. Much more confidence on short sided bunker shots, and high flops out of the rough.

The key is figuring out what you're going to use that high loft club for and then buying for that. I'm in greenside rough and bunkers quite a bit so for me the vokey 60° k grind proved more useful that my 58° m grind. I use my 54° as my versatile club and the 60° in more specialty situations. Buy a couple used ones to find what suits you best, but that set up is what works best for this double digit handicapper.

[crazygolfnut]

With a 43 degree PW I have been using 48-52-56. Thinking about going to 48-54-58 so that I have a lob wedge. I do use my wedges for full shots.

[buckeyefl]

> @mootrail said:

> > @agolf1 said:

> > I need one wedge for little greenside shots and it could be anywhere from 57*-64*.

> > I don't think it really matters much.

> I absolutely agree and disagree with you. If I'm carry a full bag, then I always want to bag a 60° lob wedge. But as far as the loft goes, the higher you go, the better skills you need (One trick ponies helper wedges like the 64° Sure Out, not included).

>

> A 60° wedge is just that much more difficult then a 58° to play. But the up side is, it will get you out of worse situations. A downhill lie above the green running away from you and over a bunker. I don't care how good you are with a 58°, you've got no chance. At least with a 60°, it looks possible to lob it up and have a prayer that it won't run off the green. I tried playing with a 54° & 58°, but found the 58° just couldn't do what a 60° can do (ditto for the 54° as I much prefer a 56°).

>

> So in regards to this thread, always a 60° over a 58°, unless I'm carrying a Sunday bag, I'd play a 58° as my only wedge.

>

>

 

Disagree. The scenarios you suggest in the last paragraph are simply opinion and devoid of fact. There is simply no way the extra 2 degrees make any difference to 99.9% of golfers. Again your last point is simply opinion as a good player could take a 54 and outplay you and your 60. Grind is much more important and frankly people don't need more loft but need to learn to make better contact and better swings. To suggest you couldn't hit that shot with a 58 but miraculously could with a 60 is just another myth to add to the average golfers collection.

[buckeyefl]

> @sixfootnick said:

> Why does the loft of your last wedge matter for gapping? There's no difference between 50-54-58 and 50-54-60 as far as usability.

 

That gapping has been around for ages but it applies to full shots. The idea being that if you put the same swing on each club and you have equal gaps then it makes it easier to take full swings and get predictable distances. Full swings we're stressed because they take less skill. Frankly most players already add loft through bad technique and going up in loft just means they come up that much shorter. Fluffy lies are an exception because they can get away with contact murder and pull off their favorite Phil shot with some level of success.

 

If you aren't using it for full swings then you are correct and the loft is irrelevant.

[matchavez]

I'm surprised that people are so hung up on whether they have 4, 5, or 6º gaps through all of their wedges. I'm a 50-54-58 guy, but it isn't because of the gaps alone. They work well as a group. I am struggling with whether to switch to the same head or different shapes, and I'm pretty well decided that I'll go with the various bounces for those clubs, even though I'm fully on-board with the concept of a Pelz "grid" (set swings, set numbers).

The key factor on loft is whether that loft with a given swing will produce a good shot. And if you're honest about it, a 50º gap wedge is pretty simple for a lot of people, but a 60º wedge is a 50/50 love-hate kind of thing. Many like a 60, I personally don't get along with them at all. Much of that comes from the type of lies and conditions where I play, but I struggle to hit a 60, so I go with a lowest of 58º.

 

tl;dr Go with the lofts you can make the best shots, and the rest will work itself out.

[srksi]

As more pros start to bag wedges with over 60 degrees of loft, it seems strange to be going the other way to me. I play with a guy that aims right and decels. Using 58 instead of 60 doesn’t save him from bad shots.

 

[MelloYello]

> @Fairways_and_Greens said:

> I know it's not the best comparison, but here are the top 10 pros out of the fairway from 50-125 yards last year. Most of them are using 3 wedges, and most of them are using 60's...

> 

 

Limiting wedge count is probably done so they can add the long clubs they prefer to have on hand.

 

Pro's seem to regularly take on shots between 185- and 250-yards. Not only do amateurs face fewer shots like that but in many cases, they couldn't hit them if they tried.

 

 

> @srksi said:

> As more pros start to bag wedges with over 60 degrees of loft, it seems strange to be going the other way to me.

 

The things that drive set make-up vary between skill level. Not only is a pro better but they're facing harder shots, as well. I wouldn't take what the pros are doing to mean that much.

 

IMHO, it's better to be able to hit a LW of some sort but whether it's a 58, 60 or 62 doesn't really matter that much. That's more in the hands of the player.

 

 

 

[matchavez]

> @MelloYello said:

> > @Fairways_and_Greens said:

> > I know it's not the best comparison, but here are the top 10 pros out of the fairway from 50-125 yards last year. Most of them are using 3 wedges, and most of them are using 60's...

> > 

>

> Limiting wedge count is probably done so they can add the long clubs they prefer to have on hand.

>

> Pro's seem to regularly take on shots between 185- and 250-yards. Not only do amateurs face fewer shots like that but in many cases, they couldn't hit them if they tried.

>

>

> > @srksi said:

> > As more pros start to bag wedges with over 60 degrees of loft, it seems strange to be going the other way to me.

>

> The things that drive set make-up vary between skill level. Not only is a pro better but they're facing harder shots, as well. I wouldn't take what the pros are doing to mean that much.

>

> IMHO, it's better to be able to hit a LW of some sort but whether it's a 58, 60 or 62 doesn't really matter that much. That's more in the hands of the player.

 

All of this... so the top 10 **pros** are using P+2. As stated, if I had a lot of shots and shapes I needed to play in the 200+y range, I'd want more options up there. If I was a professional, I have all day every day to find my feel with these clubs, and it would be much easier to hit my under-100 numbers. Most people that are not pros can do stock shots (1/4, 1/2, 3/4) and P+3 and get an outcome with about 3-4 more "unique" yardages on your chart. The amount of times I'm within 3 metres of a shot that's a stock quarter for me at 31/38/45/52m... it happens 5 times a round. Assuming I hit the right shot, that's an average of 6 feet closer to the cup than me using a 31/42/52m P+2 setup. Maybe too technical, but the times I have shots over 180m in a round into a green is roughly 1, and that one shot I'm rarely saying "gee, I wish I had a X instead". Guys on tour face that shot 2-5 times a round. And that's why they often want the P+2, because their needs are different.

Unless you're under a 5 handicap, you're probably best deciding this with whether you're a "feel" player that has a 54-ish for anything wedgy over 50y and a 60-ish for under 50y. If you're a "consistency" player, you're going to want P+3. If you're constantly under 80, you already know what's right for you.

 

[tgoodspe1991]

I think this thread has me realizing I need to be smarter about my wedge setup. Historically, I have always gone for nice looking gaps: 50/54/58, 50/55/60, 46/52/58, and right now I am using a 48/54/60. I’ve done this for no reason except that I’ve seen Pro’s with the similar setups and if it works for them, then it works for me, right? I have gotten by and shot good scores with any setup, but I’m sure there’s room for improvement there...

 

 

 

 

 

[kstrong84]

I love this debate!  And my answer is...it depends.

 

The 58 is certainly more versatile as it is far better on full swing shots but if you use your lob wedge almost exclusively for flop shots around the green, the extra 2 degrees provided by the 60 is extremely valuable.

 

Therefore, it really depends on the rest of your wedge setup...52/58, 52/56/60, 50/54/58, or 50/54 (or 55!)/60 are all viable.

[hybrid25]

On 4/12/2019 at 3:57 AM, y2zar said:

Would definitely go with consistent loft gap, I'm using the setup 50/54/58 degrees here.

Another important factors also are the bounces of the wedges w/ mine 50*@10*bounce, 54*@14*bounce & 58*@8*bounce. These will cover a lot of various shots needed in any conditions, so bounces are crucial especially on wedges.

Yes, bouce is important, but I think sole width is about as important for sand shots and other shots you don't want to dig in with. Ping always used "effective bounce" when labeling their wedges.

[Moby]

58* - anything more and it's a guessing game for me. 

[BallerNate]

I’m surprised at how many guys were choosing 58* over 60* too and made it seem like it’s a no brainer. I’ve only ever used a 60* as an LW, but the 58* option is definitely intriguing.

 

Someone mentioned bending a 60* to 58*...has anyone else done this and what was your experience with it?

 

I decided to drop my 56* to keep more options at the top of my bag and go to a 3 wedge setup going forward, so I’ll do one of the following:

-47, 52 @ 53.5, 60 (current setup)

-47, 52, 60 @ 58

-47, 52 @ 53, 60 @ 59   

-47, 52, 60

 

All wedges are standard bounce (47, 52-09, 60-10).

Edited January 10, 2021 by BallerNate

[hybrid25]

1 hour ago, BallerNate said:

I’m surprised at how many guys were choosing 58* over 60* too and made it seem like it’s a no brainer. I’ve only ever used a 60* as an LW, but the 58* option is definitely intriguing.

 

Someone mentioned bending a 60* to 58*...has anyone else done this and what was your experience with it?

 

I decided to drop my 56* to keep more options at the top of my bag and go to a 3 wedge setup going forward, so I’ll do one of the following:

-47, 52 @ 53.5, 60 (current setup)

-47, 52, 60 @ 58

-47, 52 @ 53, 60 @ 59   

-47, 52, 60

 

All wedges are standard bounce (47, 52-09, 60-10).

I bent my 60 to 58 and really notice any difference in performance. I may not notice like a scratch golfer might, but that's the story.

[TourSpoon]

I played 48-54-60 for 20 years with the 54 being the workhorse and the 60 for bunker and specialty shots around the green. Prior it was 48-56-60 with an occasional 52 that just seemed to get into the way. I know that a lot of pros have the 48-52-56-60, but for some reason I could never get it to work between the 52-56, hence me dropping the 52 and then finally discovering my favorite wedge loft the 54. 

 

I recently fit into some 718 AP2s and the 46* PW or 10 iron (the way I use it is iron, not wedge) saw me loving the 50 degree gap (my new pitching wedge) along with the workhorse 54 and a new addition in a 58. Now I did not set out on 58 but it just kind of happened. I have found it to be a little more predictable from the fairway and extremely versatile around the greens. With that said, I don't really care what you hit, make sure you are in the right grind because that is the most important consideration in a lob wedge. I just happened to find the 58 to have a lot of versatility and not to be quite so finicky as the 60. 

 

 

[BallerNate]

6 hours ago, hybrid25 said:

I bent my 60 to 58 and really notice any difference in performance. I may not notice like a scratch golfer might, but that's the story.

Awesome, thanks for your feedback on that! Yeah, once the golf shops re-open from our current lockdown, I’ll bend my GW back to 52 and will try the 47, 52, 60 setup...but if I find that the distance and loft gap is too large from 52 to 60, I’ll bend the 60 to 58 and try the 47, 52, 60 @ 58 setup.
 

That probably makes the most sense if I’m able to replicate similar shots that I can get out of the 60 and have more versatility and distance with it at 58.

[Funkytee75]

7 hours ago, BallerNate said:

I’m surprised at how many guys were choosing 58* over 60* too and made it seem like it’s a no brainer. I’ve only ever used a 60* as an LW, but the 58* option is definitely intriguing.

 

Someone mentioned bending a 60* to 58*...has anyone else done this and what was your experience with it?

 

I decided to drop my 56* to keep more options at the top of my bag and go to a 3 wedge setup going forward, so I’ll do one of the following:

-47, 52 @ 53.5, 60 (current setup)

-47, 52, 60 @ 58

-47, 52 @ 53, 60 @ 59   

-47, 52, 60

 

All wedges are standard bounce (47, 52-09, 60-10).

I too like my 60*  - the loft is great without opening a 56 or 58 exposing that leading edge. Agree with others on the grinds & bounce variations in the wedges to give you the necessary tools for shot creativity the courses and seasons bring.  To each his / her own.