Strength of Field

[leezer99]

Can someone help me make heads or tails from this? Wanting to play against a strong field but I don't know if I should be looking at the number of players entered or if I should be looking at who has actually entered. Is this number calculated prior to the start of the tournament or just after completion?

 

From JGS:

The number displayed here is the result of our proprietary ranking formula that determines a score for all the tournaments played by this individual. Again, simply put, a lower number means they played against stronger players and the closer two players' strength numbers are, the more similar the competitiveness of their tournaments. This criteria counts for 25% of a player's ranking calculation.

[tiger1873]

I wondered the same thing. I know you can beat other kids but they may still outrank you.

[Pinewood Golfer]

> @leezer99 said:

> Can someone help me make heads or tails from this? Wanting to play against a strong field but I don't know if I should be looking at the number of players entered or if I should be looking at who has actually entered. Is this number calculated prior to the start of the tournament or just after completion?

>

> From JGS:

> The number displayed here is the result of our proprietary ranking formula that determines a score for all the tournaments played by this individual. Again, simply put, a lower number means they played against stronger players and the closer two players' strength numbers are, the more similar the competitiveness of their tournaments. This criteria counts for 25% of a player's ranking calculation.

 

What age?

[leezer99]

> @"Pinewood Golfer" said:

> > @leezer99 said:

> > Can someone help me make heads or tails from this? Wanting to play against a strong field but I don't know if I should be looking at the number of players entered or if I should be looking at who has actually entered. Is this number calculated prior to the start of the tournament or just after completion?

> >

> > From JGS:

> > The number displayed here is the result of our proprietary ranking formula that determines a score for all the tournaments played by this individual. Again, simply put, a lower number means they played against stronger players and the closer two players' strength numbers are, the more similar the competitiveness of their tournaments. This criteria counts for 25% of a player's ranking calculation.

>

> What age?

 

12-14 age group.

[CTgolf]

Might be best to contact them directly

 

[email protected]

[jj9000]

Just reading this reminds me of weekly College Football...where the #14 team beats the #6 team...and the next week #6 falls to #9...and #14 jumps to #11. Sorry...College Football pet peeve.

[Pinewood Golfer]

> @leezer99 said:

> > @"Pinewood Golfer" said:

> > > @leezer99 said:

> > > Can someone help me make heads or tails from this? Wanting to play against a strong field but I don't know if I should be looking at the number of players entered or if I should be looking at who has actually entered. Is this number calculated prior to the start of the tournament or just after completion?

> > >

> > > From JGS:

> > > The number displayed here is the result of our proprietary ranking formula that determines a score for all the tournaments played by this individual. Again, simply put, a lower number means they played against stronger players and the closer two players' strength numbers are, the more similar the competitiveness of their tournaments. This criteria counts for 25% of a player's ranking calculation.

> >

> > What age?

>

> 12-14 age group.

 

I assume you’re talking about JGS....they don’t publish their strength of field formula but I’ve been trying to figure it out as best I can. I’ll spare the details unless you want know but if you’re playing in a division below “overall” in a tournament then I don’t think there is much, or any differentiation in the strength measure of these fields. For example, if you’re playing the 12-13 division in an event where there is a 14-18 “overall” division I think it’s just “a tournament”. Same for US Kids Worlds, for example. Very little difference between the 11 year old and 12 year old division.

 

The question I can’t figure out is “why”? If you look throughout their rankings you’ll see individual players with field strengths as low as 6 and as high 103 plus some decimal points.

 

To me it looks as though tournaments are slotted on a percentile basis but the fact that there are numbers greater than 100 is problematic for that theory.

 

So, my theory is that these younger divisions are just given blanket numbers of like 101, 102, 103 or 104 based on the age of the players competing and the tourneys with kids going up to max age are given a percentile rank.

 

If you care enough, you can figure it out, but it’s not easy. For the Gator Invitational that I help run I captured our participants SoF prior to our event and then analyzed it afterward. Sparing the formulaic details, I was able to determine our event was given a SoF rating somewhere between 20-21.

 

Golfweek makes it easy—but they only count about 250 events and only “overall” level events. If you go to their ranking page you can click on the list of events link and it will show you the strength rating as well as where that tourney ranks among their entire database (it’s the number in parentheses).

 

Any of this make sense? At the end of the day if a junior event doesn’t have any top 1000-1500 players I think there is VERY little differentiation in the JGS strength rating.

[heavy_hitter]

JGS is really easy to deal with. Just shot them a question and they will help. I was trying to understand how they determined scoring differential better and went through an entire email chain with a gal there. They are really helpful.

[leezer99]

> @heavy_hitter said:

> JGS is really easy to deal with. Just shot them a question and they will help. I was trying to understand how they determined scoring differential better and went through an entire email chain with a gal there. They are really helpful.

 

This is what I got back...

> the SOF value for a tournament is a part of the calculation, we do not see the raw number. We recommend that you look at tournament results history. Most tours and golf associations hold the same tournament on the same golf course each year. So if you pull up the 2018 tournament you are thinking about playing in this year, you will see field size and the type of scores that were shot.

> You can look for tournament results using this link -> https://www.juniorgolfscoreboard.com/tournaments.asp_

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

Great Topic. Thank you for starting it.

 

[leezer99]

Sounds like the SOF math has been addressed...


 

 

[tiger1873]

> @leezer99 said:

> Sounds like the SOF math has been addressed...

> 

>

>

 

Hard to say how the changes will effect things. From first glance it seems that they just changed up what tournament are important. I am seeing some kids moved way up while others fell a lot. But most kids stayed the same.

 

My first impression is players who played more tournaments are getting a unfair boost. Hope that isn't the case and just coincidence but kids who played 15 plus tournaments seems to get a big boost.

[Pinewood Golfer]

> @tiger1873 said:

> > @leezer99 said:

> > Sounds like the SOF math has been addressed...

> > 

> >

> >

>

> Hard to say how the changes will effect things. From first glance it seems that they just changed up what tournament are important. I am seeing some kids moved way up while others fell a lot. But most kids stayed the same.

>

> My first impression is players who played more tournaments are getting a unfair boost. Hope that isn't the case and just coincidence but kids who played 15 plus tournaments seems to get a big boost.

 

The new rankings don’t make sense based upon the explanation given on their site. The post says they aren’t reducing the weighting of SOF only the way they calculate SOF. However, the actual impact on SOF in the rankings appears to be minimal-to-nonexistent while the rankings changed DRASTICALLY and now fall almost directly in sequence with score differential.

 

It looks like either the algorithm isn’t yet working or the explanation is BS. SOF has very little bearing on the current rankings based upon my analysis.

[leezer99]

> @"Pinewood Golfer" said:

>

> The new rankings don’t make sense based upon the explanation given on their site. The post says they aren’t reducing the weighting of SOF only the way they calculate SOF. However, the actual impact on SOF in the rankings appears to be minimal-to-nonexistent while the rankings changed DRASTICALLY and now fall almost directly in sequence with score differential.

>

> It looks like either the algorithm isn’t yet working or the explanation is BS. SOF has very little bearing on the current rankings based upon my analysis.

The only thing I noticed was that AB retook the #1 spot from JP.

 

[CTgolf]

Anecdotally it seems like it puts a much lower weight on local (PGA Section-type) events with weaker fields. I've seen some rankings of juniors in the area who mainly played locally drop 20-100 spots.

[Tigerswag]

This explains everything. Well done Pinewood.

 

Also, my son played in The Gator this year. This was one of the best junior events of the year. Great job. Jackson CC was great to players and parents. The caramelized bacon they served to the parents was worth the trip!

 

He hopes to be back next year!

 

 

 

> @"Pinewood Golfer" said:

> > @leezer99 said:

> > > @"Pinewood Golfer" said:

> > > > @leezer99 said:

> > > > Can someone help me make heads or tails from this? Wanting to play against a strong field but I don't know if I should be looking at the number of players entered or if I should be looking at who has actually entered. Is this number calculated prior to the start of the tournament or just after completion?

> > > >

> > > > From JGS:

> > > > The number displayed here is the result of our proprietary ranking formula that determines a score for all the tournaments played by this individual. Again, simply put, a lower number means they played against stronger players and the closer two players' strength numbers are, the more similar the competitiveness of their tournaments. This criteria counts for 25% of a player's ranking calculation.

> > >

> > > What age?

> >

> > 12-14 age group.

>

> I assume you’re talking about JGS....they don’t publish their strength of field formula but I’ve been trying to figure it out as best I can. I’ll spare the details unless you want know but if you’re playing in a division below “overall” in a tournament then I don’t think there is much, or any differentiation in the strength measure of these fields. For example, if you’re playing the 12-13 division in an event where there is a 14-18 “overall” division I think it’s just “a tournament”. Same for US Kids Worlds, for example. Very little difference between the 11 year old and 12 year old division.

>

> The question I can’t figure out is “why”? If you look throughout their rankings you’ll see individual players with field strengths as low as 6 and as high 103 plus some decimal points.

>

> To me it looks as though tournaments are slotted on a percentile basis but the fact that there are numbers greater than 100 is problematic for that theory.

>

> So, my theory is that these younger divisions are just given blanket numbers of like 101, 102, 103 or 104 based on the age of the players competing and the tourneys with kids going up to max age are given a percentile rank.

>

> If you care enough, you can figure it out, but it’s not easy. For the Gator Invitational that I help run I captured our participants SoF prior to our event and then analyzed it afterward. Sparing the formulaic details, I was able to determine our event was given a SoF rating somewhere between 20-21.

>

> Golfweek makes it easy—but they only count about 250 events and only “overall” level events. If you go to their ranking page you can click on the list of events link and it will show you the strength rating as well as where that tourney ranks among their entire database (it’s the number in parentheses).

>

> Any of this make sense? At the end of the day if a junior event doesn’t have any top 1000-1500 players I think there is VERY little differentiation in the JGS strength rating.