Pros and others throw USGA under the bus.

[buckeyefl]

> @nsxguy said:

> > @buckeyefl said:

> > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > You have to set it up for all day play. Not just 730- 11-30. That’s my point. Sure warm weather caused it. But it was a foreseeable issue

> > >

> > > I think you've got a handle on the entire situation. Maybe you should apply for a job with the USGA.

> >

> > Be careful you may pull s sarcasm muscle in your defense if the indefensible. Even Davis admitted as much but by all means use that Bethpage fan sense of superiority to try to shut someone down.

>

> Maybe you should apply also ?

 

Maybe any of hundreds of people who know how to set up courses should as well but it wouldn't matter when the people in charge think they know best. Maybe you should tell the experts who get it right daily how they are wrong but I don't think you will or could unless you took that chip of off over your shoulder on this topic.

[nsxguy]

> @buckeyefl said:

> > @nsxguy said:

> > > @buckeyefl said:

> > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > You have to set it up for all day play. Not just 730- 11-30. That’s my point. Sure warm weather caused it. But it was a foreseeable issue

> > > >

> > > > I think you've got a handle on the entire situation. Maybe you should apply for a job with the USGA.

> > >

> > > Be careful you may pull s sarcasm muscle in your defense if the indefensible. Even Davis admitted as much but by all means use that Bethpage fan sense of superiority to try to shut someone down.

> >

> > Maybe you should apply also ?

>

> Maybe any of hundreds of people who know how to set up courses should as well but it wouldn't matter when the people in charge think they know best. Maybe you should tell the experts who get it right daily how they are wrong but I don't think you will or could unless you took that chip of off over your shoulder on this topic.

 

Wow. They made some mistakes. I guess you, blade and I are the only ones who are perfect. LOL

 

Chip off MY shoulder ?

 

YOU guys are the ones who indicate the USGA can't get anything right !!! YOU guys are telling everyone how poorly the USGA runs things and how incompetent they are !!!

 

I only suggested (now some of) you guys should apply for work and help them out.

 

And *I* have a chip on MY shoulder ??? I'd say you can't make this stuff up but obviously you can,,,,,,,, LOL

[bladehunter]

> @nsxguy said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > You have to set it up for all day play. Not just 730- 11-30. That’s my point. Sure warm weather caused it. But it was a foreseeable issue

>

> I think you've got a handle on the entire situation. Maybe you should apply for a job with the USGA.

 

One thing about it. I couldn’t peg the creep meter like Davis if I wore a pink tutu on camera to talk about green speeds. What dirt that guy knew to get the job , we will never know.

 

Besides. I’m pretty sure you don’t apply to get a USga job. It’s more of a nomination / legacy deal with a blind folded initiation.

[tannyhoban]

> @gvogel said:

> > @tannyhoban said:

> > Well shoot, I can remember Hale Irwin calling Hazeltine a cow pasture.

>

> I think that was Dave Hill.

>

> Edit: it was Dave Hill.

 

Ha. Yes it was.

[Shilgy]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @"North Texas" said:

> > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > @"North Texas" said:

> > > > > @Roadking2003 said:

> > > > > > @BMC said:

> > > > > > A lot of whining.

> > > > >

> > > > > Discussing and criticizing does not equal whining.

> > > > >

> > > > > >The USGA's mission is to create the toughest championship. They succeed every year.

> > > > >

> > > > > Really? Just the toughest? Fair doesn't matter? Then why not put an alligator on every green? If tougher = better there are lots of ridiculous options available.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Granted, they have sometime lost the "fairness" of some holes over the years. What they haven't lost is that everyone plays the same course. Tee the **** ball up and may the best man win that week. Which pretty much happens at every US Open. I love it when the US Open is tough and tests all aspects of their game including how tough they are mentally.

> > >

> > > Yes. But that’s been some of the gripe. Morning groups for instance saw very different greens last year on Saturday vs the afternoon. That’s when some pins became trick shots.

> > >

> > > People seem to think every shot is luck anyway ? Not even close to the truth.

> >

> > I'm pretty sure that conditions are different between the morning and afternoon in pretty much every tournament played anywhere.

>

> Yes. But they cross the line with some pin placements. Instead of placing pins and allowing some morning birdies to assure a playable location on the afternoon , they forget that and place them to stop morning scoring which in some hole locations causes afternoon Mickey Mouse 3-4 putt instances after green in regulation. That’s what I’m talking about. What you mention is Mother Nature. What I’m saying is setup flaws.

 

Ok, but were there 4 putts? Or are you trying to embellish to make a point?

[Shilgy]

> @tannyhoban said:

> > @gvogel said:

> > > @tannyhoban said:

> > > Well shoot, I can remember Hale Irwin calling Hazeltine a cow pasture.

> >

> > I think that was Dave Hill.

> >

> > Edit: it was Dave Hill.

>

> Ha. Yes it was.

 

Wasn't it in reference to a corn field as well? Not a core pasture?

[bladehunter]

> @Shilgy said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @"North Texas" said:

> > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > @"North Texas" said:

> > > > > > @Roadking2003 said:

> > > > > > > @BMC said:

> > > > > > > A lot of whining.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Discussing and criticizing does not equal whining.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > >The USGA's mission is to create the toughest championship. They succeed every year.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Really? Just the toughest? Fair doesn't matter? Then why not put an alligator on every green? If tougher = better there are lots of ridiculous options available.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Granted, they have sometime lost the "fairness" of some holes over the years. What they haven't lost is that everyone plays the same course. Tee the **** ball up and may the best man win that week. Which pretty much happens at every US Open. I love it when the US Open is tough and tests all aspects of their game including how tough they are mentally.

> > > >

> > > > Yes. But that’s been some of the gripe. Morning groups for instance saw very different greens last year on Saturday vs the afternoon. That’s when some pins became trick shots.

> > > >

> > > > People seem to think every shot is luck anyway ? Not even close to the truth.

> > >

> > > I'm pretty sure that conditions are different between the morning and afternoon in pretty much every tournament played anywhere.

> >

> > Yes. But they cross the line with some pin placements. Instead of placing pins and allowing some morning birdies to assure a playable location on the afternoon , they forget that and place them to stop morning scoring which in some hole locations causes afternoon Mickey Mouse 3-4 putt instances after green in regulation. That’s what I’m talking about. What you mention is Mother Nature. What I’m saying is setup flaws.

>

> Ok, but were there 4 putts? Or are you trying to embellish to make a point?

 

Phil for example. Could have been a 5 putt if he didn’t whack it back up the hill.

[North Texas]

> @Shilgy said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @"North Texas" said:

> > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > @"North Texas" said:

> > > > > > @Roadking2003 said:

> > > > > > > @BMC said:

> > > > > > > A lot of whining.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Discussing and criticizing does not equal whining.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > >The USGA's mission is to create the toughest championship. They succeed every year.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Really? Just the toughest? Fair doesn't matter? Then why not put an alligator on every green? If tougher = better there are lots of ridiculous options available.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Granted, they have sometime lost the "fairness" of some holes over the years. What they haven't lost is that everyone plays the same course. Tee the **** ball up and may the best man win that week. Which pretty much happens at every US Open. I love it when the US Open is tough and tests all aspects of their game including how tough they are mentally.

> > > >

> > > > Yes. But that’s been some of the gripe. Morning groups for instance saw very different greens last year on Saturday vs the afternoon. That’s when some pins became trick shots.

> > > >

> > > > People seem to think every shot is luck anyway ? Not even close to the truth.

> > >

> > > I'm pretty sure that conditions are different between the morning and afternoon in pretty much every tournament played anywhere.

> >

> > Yes. But they cross the line with some pin placements. Instead of placing pins and allowing some morning birdies to assure a playable location on the afternoon , they forget that and place them to stop morning scoring which in some hole locations causes afternoon Mickey Mouse 3-4 putt instances after green in regulation. That’s what I’m talking about. What you mention is Mother Nature. What I’m saying is setup flaws.

>

> Ok, but were there 4 putts? Or are you trying to embellish to make a point?

 

Critics of the USGA would never embellish anything. And I don't get wet when I take a shower.

[North Texas]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @Shilgy said:

> > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > @"North Texas" said:

> > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > @"North Texas" said:

> > > > > > > @Roadking2003 said:

> > > > > > > > @BMC said:

> > > > > > > > A lot of whining.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Discussing and criticizing does not equal whining.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >The USGA's mission is to create the toughest championship. They succeed every year.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Really? Just the toughest? Fair doesn't matter? Then why not put an alligator on every green? If tougher = better there are lots of ridiculous options available.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Granted, they have sometime lost the "fairness" of some holes over the years. What they haven't lost is that everyone plays the same course. Tee the **** ball up and may the best man win that week. Which pretty much happens at every US Open. I love it when the US Open is tough and tests all aspects of their game including how tough they are mentally.

> > > > >

> > > > > Yes. But that’s been some of the gripe. Morning groups for instance saw very different greens last year on Saturday vs the afternoon. That’s when some pins became trick shots.

> > > > >

> > > > > People seem to think every shot is luck anyway ? Not even close to the truth.

> > > >

> > > > I'm pretty sure that conditions are different between the morning and afternoon in pretty much every tournament played anywhere.

> > >

> > > Yes. But they cross the line with some pin placements. Instead of placing pins and allowing some morning birdies to assure a playable location on the afternoon , they forget that and place them to stop morning scoring which in some hole locations causes afternoon Mickey Mouse 3-4 putt instances after green in regulation. That’s what I’m talking about. What you mention is Mother Nature. What I’m saying is setup flaws.

> >

> > Ok, but were there 4 putts? Or are you trying to embellish to make a point?

>

> Phil for example. Could have been a 5 putt if he didn’t whack it back up the hill.

 

The chances that Phil just simply hit that putt too damn hard are somewhere north of 99%.

[bladehunter]

> @"North Texas" said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > @"North Texas" said:

> > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > > @"North Texas" said:

> > > > > > > > @Roadking2003 said:

> > > > > > > > > @BMC said:

> > > > > > > > > A lot of whining.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Discussing and criticizing does not equal whining.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >The USGA's mission is to create the toughest championship. They succeed every year.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Really? Just the toughest? Fair doesn't matter? Then why not put an alligator on every green? If tougher = better there are lots of ridiculous options available.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Granted, they have sometime lost the "fairness" of some holes over the years. What they haven't lost is that everyone plays the same course. Tee the **** ball up and may the best man win that week. Which pretty much happens at every US Open. I love it when the US Open is tough and tests all aspects of their game including how tough they are mentally.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Yes. But that’s been some of the gripe. Morning groups for instance saw very different greens last year on Saturday vs the afternoon. That’s when some pins became trick shots.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > People seem to think every shot is luck anyway ? Not even close to the truth.

> > > > >

> > > > > I'm pretty sure that conditions are different between the morning and afternoon in pretty much every tournament played anywhere.

> > > >

> > > > Yes. But they cross the line with some pin placements. Instead of placing pins and allowing some morning birdies to assure a playable location on the afternoon , they forget that and place them to stop morning scoring which in some hole locations causes afternoon Mickey Mouse 3-4 putt instances after green in regulation. That’s what I’m talking about. What you mention is Mother Nature. What I’m saying is setup flaws.

> > >

> > > Ok, but were there 4 putts? Or are you trying to embellish to make a point?

> >

> > Phil for example. Could have been a 5 putt if he didn’t whack it back up the hill.

>

> The chances that Phil just simply hit that putt too **** hard are somewhere north of 99%.

 

To hard for the break ? Yes. Hard enough to go off the green 20 yards ? No way on earth. I’ve seen that putt 50 times at least. It isn’t a long putt. It just didn’t stop.

[North Texas]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @"North Texas" said:

> > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > @"North Texas" said:

> > > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > > > @"North Texas" said:

> > > > > > > > > @Roadking2003 said:

> > > > > > > > > > @BMC said:

> > > > > > > > > > A lot of whining.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Discussing and criticizing does not equal whining.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >The USGA's mission is to create the toughest championship. They succeed every year.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Really? Just the toughest? Fair doesn't matter? Then why not put an alligator on every green? If tougher = better there are lots of ridiculous options available.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Granted, they have sometime lost the "fairness" of some holes over the years. What they haven't lost is that everyone plays the same course. Tee the **** ball up and may the best man win that week. Which pretty much happens at every US Open. I love it when the US Open is tough and tests all aspects of their game including how tough they are mentally.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Yes. But that’s been some of the gripe. Morning groups for instance saw very different greens last year on Saturday vs the afternoon. That’s when some pins became trick shots.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > People seem to think every shot is luck anyway ? Not even close to the truth.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I'm pretty sure that conditions are different between the morning and afternoon in pretty much every tournament played anywhere.

> > > > >

> > > > > Yes. But they cross the line with some pin placements. Instead of placing pins and allowing some morning birdies to assure a playable location on the afternoon , they forget that and place them to stop morning scoring which in some hole locations causes afternoon Mickey Mouse 3-4 putt instances after green in regulation. That’s what I’m talking about. What you mention is Mother Nature. What I’m saying is setup flaws.

> > > >

> > > > Ok, but were there 4 putts? Or are you trying to embellish to make a point?

> > >

> > > Phil for example. Could have been a 5 putt if he didn’t whack it back up the hill.

> >

> > The chances that Phil just simply hit that putt too **** hard are somewhere north of 99%.

>

> To hard for the break ? Yes. Hard enough to go off the green 20 yards ? No way on earth. I’ve seen that putt 50 times at least. It isn’t a long putt. It just didn’t stop.

 

There's a very good reason it didn't stop. He hit too damn hard! I'm sorry but this is not f...ing rocket science.

[bladehunter]

Lol tooo hard for a baked green and a pin placed on a ledge. Yes. But that’s my point. Move the pin 3 ft deeper. If he putts it 4 ft by , then it’s on him. I don’t think you could stop a putt by that hole from above it.

[BrianMcG]

 

 

> @"North Texas" said:

> Something tells me that, even if the US Open comes off with no hitches whatsoever, a lot of PGA pros and a lot of golfwrx posters will be too proud to give them credit.

 

 

Give them credit for not screwing up Pebble Beach.

 

I could have done that just by showing up on Thursday with tee times.

 

[North Texas]

> @bladehunter said:

> Lol tooo hard for a baked green and a pin placed on a ledge. Yes. But that’s my point. Move the pin 3 ft deeper. If he putts it 4 ft by , then it’s on him. I don’t think you could stop a putt by that hole from above it.

 

Did anyone else putt the ball off the green from above it? And I just went and looked at a video of the putt and he HAMMERED the damn putt!

[bladehunter]

> @"North Texas" said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > Lol tooo hard for a baked green and a pin placed on a ledge. Yes. But that’s my point. Move the pin 3 ft deeper. If he putts it 4 ft by , then it’s on him. I don’t think you could stop a putt by that hole from above it.

>

> Did anyone else putt the ball off the green from above it? And I just went and looked at a video of the putt and he HAMMERED the **** putt!

 

Watched it again myself. I just don’t think so. He might could have breathed on it to lag it down. But no way to get it past that hole and stop it. The 3rd putt Hits the hole from 3 ft otherwise it goes off.

[Shilgy]

I would prefer to not use Phil as an example on US Open greens. He should have been dq'd for conduct unbecoming. He glib answer later trying to make himself sound smart was an even worse fail.

 

Was that course out of control? Yep. Do you recall anyone else putting off that green from above the hole? He was the only one I recall. Seems to support North TX that is was all in Phil and his hammer hands.

[BIG STU]

> @nsxguy said:

> > @buckeyefl said:

> > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > @buckeyefl said:

> > > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > You have to set it up for all day play. Not just 730- 11-30. That’s my point. Sure warm weather caused it. But it was a foreseeable issue

> > > > >

> > > > > I think you've got a handle on the entire situation. Maybe you should apply for a job with the USGA.

> > > >

> > > > Be careful you may pull s sarcasm muscle in your defense if the indefensible. Even Davis admitted as much but by all means use that Bethpage fan sense of superiority to try to shut someone down.

> > >

> > > Maybe you should apply also ?

> >

> > Maybe any of hundreds of people who know how to set up courses should as well but it wouldn't matter when the people in charge think they know best. Maybe you should tell the experts who get it right daily how they are wrong but I don't think you will or could unless you took that chip of off over your shoulder on this topic.

>

> Wow. They made some mistakes. I guess you, blade and I are the only ones who are perfect. LOL

>

> Chip off MY shoulder ?

>

> YOU guys are the ones who indicate the USGA can't get anything right !!! YOU guys are telling everyone how poorly the USGA runs things and how incompetent they are !!!

>

> I only suggested (now some of) you guys should apply for work and help them out.

>

> And *I* have a chip on MY shoulder ??? I'd say you can't make this stuff up but obviously you can,,,,,,,, LOL

 

On the application process I saw it as tongue in cheek satire comedy.

[davep043]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @"North Texas" said:

> > > @bladehunter said:

> > > Lol tooo hard for a baked green and a pin placed on a ledge. Yes. But that’s my point. Move the pin 3 ft deeper. If he putts it 4 ft by , then it’s on him. I don’t think you could stop a putt by that hole from above it.

> >

> > Did anyone else putt the ball off the green from above it? And I just went and looked at a video of the putt and he HAMMERED the **** putt!

>

> Watched it again myself. I just don’t think so. He might could have breathed on it to lag it down. But no way to get it past that hole and stop it. The 3rd putt Hits the hole from 3 ft otherwise it goes off.

Wait, he COULD have breathed on it to lag it, you say. And he didn't do that, he hit it harder, which turned out to be too hard. And somehow that is the fault of the USGA, and Phil is blameless.

 

[tannyhoban]

> @Shilgy said:

> > @tannyhoban said:

> > > @gvogel said:

> > > > @tannyhoban said:

> > > > Well shoot, I can remember Hale Irwin calling Hazeltine a cow pasture.

> > >

> > > I think that was Dave Hill.

> > >

> > > Edit: it was Dave Hill.

> >

> > Ha. Yes it was.

>

> Want it in reference to a corn field as well? Not a core pasture?

 

It may have been. That was a long time ago already. Hazeltine was a fairly new layout iiirc.

[gvogel]

> @Shilgy said:

> > @tannyhoban said:

> > > @gvogel said:

> > > > @tannyhoban said:

> > > > Well shoot, I can remember Hale Irwin calling Hazeltine a cow pasture.

> > >

> > > I think that was Dave Hill.

> > >

> > > Edit: it was Dave Hill.

> >

> > Ha. Yes it was.

>

> Want it in reference to a corn field as well? Not a core pasture?

 

When asked what he thought about the golf course, Hill said "I'm still looking for it."

 

Later, "Hazeltine lacked 80 acres of corn and a few cows." "They ruined a good farm when they built this golf course."

[Roadking2003]

> @Shilgy said:

> Was that course out of control? Yep. **Do you recall anyone else putting off that green from above the hole?** He was the only one I recall.

 

Has anybody looked at all 156 golfers playing that green? Maybe others did putt off the green.

[Roadking2003]

> @davep043 said:

> Wait, he COULD have breathed on it to lag it, you say. And he didn't do that, he hit it harder, which turned out to be too hard. And somehow that is the fault of the USGA,

 

Yes. They violated their own guidelines for pin placement.

 

>and Phil is blameless.

 

No, but that doesn't absolve the USGA from their bad pin placement.

 

 

[Roadking2003]

> @Shilgy said:

> I would prefer to not use Phil as an example on US Open greens. He should have been dq'd for conduct unbecoming. He glib answer later trying to make himself sound smart was an even worse fail.

 

Yes, He should have been DQ for purposely violating the rules.

 

But then he should be worshipped as a hero for having the guts to call out the USGA on their huge error that made the USGA and their failure the focus of the tournament rather than the players.

 

The 2018 US Open will forever be remembered as the event that Phil played hockey on the green, not the good play of Koepka. And that blame is 100% on the USGA.

[Roadking2003]

> @"North Texas" said:

> Granted, they have sometime lost the "fairness" of some holes over the years. What they haven't lost is that everyone plays the same course. **Tee the **** ball up and may the best man win that week.**Which pretty much happens at every US Open.

 

That happens every week.

[Roadking2003]

> @buckeyefl said:

> Maybe any of hundreds of people who know how to set up courses should as well but it wouldn't matter when the people in charge think they know best. Maybe you should tell the experts who get it right daily how they are wrong but I don't think you will or could unless you took that chip of off over your shoulder on this topic.

 

There are a few thousand guys all over the country that set up courses every day and most of them do a very good job, day after day after day. It's not like flying a rocket to the moon.

 

And BTW, all of us can read the USGA pin placement guidelines to select appropriate pin placements.

 

[bladehunter]

> @davep043 said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @"North Texas" said:

> > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > Lol tooo hard for a baked green and a pin placed on a ledge. Yes. But that’s my point. Move the pin 3 ft deeper. If he putts it 4 ft by , then it’s on him. I don’t think you could stop a putt by that hole from above it.

> > >

> > > Did anyone else putt the ball off the green from above it? And I just went and looked at a video of the putt and he HAMMERED the **** putt!

> >

> > Watched it again myself. I just don’t think so. He might could have breathed on it to lag it down. But no way to get it past that hole and stop it. The 3rd putt Hits the hole from 3 ft otherwise it goes off.

> Wait, he COULD have breathed on it to lag it, you say. And he didn't do that, he hit it harder, which turned out to be too hard. And somehow that is the fault of the USGA, and Phil is blameless.

>

 

On a relatively flattish putt. Yes. You shouldnt have to lag a 10 ft putt to keep it on the green.

[davep043]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @davep043 said:

> > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > @"North Texas" said:

> > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > Lol tooo hard for a baked green and a pin placed on a ledge. Yes. But that’s my point. Move the pin 3 ft deeper. If he putts it 4 ft by , then it’s on him. I don’t think you could stop a putt by that hole from above it.

> > > >

> > > > Did anyone else putt the ball off the green from above it? And I just went and looked at a video of the putt and he HAMMERED the **** putt!

> > >

> > > Watched it again myself. I just don’t think so. He might could have breathed on it to lag it down. But no way to get it past that hole and stop it. The 3rd putt Hits the hole from 3 ft otherwise it goes off.

> > Wait, he COULD have breathed on it to lag it, you say. And he didn't do that, he hit it harder, which turned out to be too hard. And somehow that is the fault of the USGA, and Phil is blameless.

> >

>

> On a relatively flattish putt. Yes. You shouldnt have to lag a 10 ft putt to keep it on the green.

 

I agree completely, for the John Deere. at the US Open, it's supposed to be more demanding.

[UncleJohn’sBand]

> @davep043 said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @davep043 said:

> > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > @"North Texas" said:

> > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > Lol tooo hard for a baked green and a pin placed on a ledge. Yes. But that’s my point. Move the pin 3 ft deeper. If he putts it 4 ft by , then it’s on him. I don’t think you could stop a putt by that hole from above it.

> > > > >

> > > > > Did anyone else putt the ball off the green from above it? And I just went and looked at a video of the putt and he HAMMERED the **** putt!

> > > >

> > > > Watched it again myself. I just don’t think so. He might could have breathed on it to lag it down. But no way to get it past that hole and stop it. The 3rd putt Hits the hole from 3 ft otherwise it goes off.

> > > Wait, he COULD have breathed on it to lag it, you say. And he didn't do that, he hit it harder, which turned out to be too hard. And somehow that is the fault of the USGA, and Phil is blameless.

> > >

> >

> > On a relatively flattish putt. Yes. You shouldnt have to lag a 10 ft putt to keep it on the green.

>

> I agree completely, for the John Deere. at the US Open, it's supposed to be more demanding.

 

I have to agree with both side of this. It is supposed to be more demanding, but more demanding got you the hole location at Olympic in ‘98, got you the 7th green at Shinnecock in ‘04, and 13 & 15 green last year.

 

I fully believe this US Open at Pebble could be awesome from here on out. The course looked firm, but very playable. By Sunday it will be a hard test. I hope this new guy continues down this path for the next three days, and gets all the credit for a great Open

 

 

[Birdie Mac]

> @Roadking2003 said:

> > @Shilgy said:

> > I would prefer to not use Phil as an example on US Open greens. He should have been dq'd for conduct unbecoming. He glib answer later trying to make himself sound smart was an even worse fail.

>

> Yes, He should have been DQ for purposely violating the rules.

>

> **But then he should be worshipped as a hero for having the guts to call out the USGA** on their huge error that made the USGA and their failure the focus of the tournament rather than the players.

>

> The 2018 US Open will forever be remembered as the event that Phil played hockey on the green, not the good play of Koepka. And that blame is 100% on the USGA.

Not sure how this falsehood is still floating around. In fact, he didn't call out the USGA. He said he 'used the rules to his advantage', and basically took the two shot penalty rather than batting the ball back and forth on the green. So, more doofus than hero.

 

This is the same guy, btw, that missed a one foot putt yesterday.

 

[youdamantiger]

I think the USGA takes a lot of completely unnecessary and unfair flak from pros and from fans who take their cue from the pros. Look, players b*tch. It's just what they do. If there's a par 5 they can't reach. If there's rough that they can't knock it on the green from. If there's a hole location that requires a precise shot otherwise a three-putt is a real possibility. If a butterfly farts in their downswing. If their courtesy van to the course is two minutes late. There is no end to the number of things that can raise a player's ire. And the USGA is an easy target because they host the toughest tournament on the schedule.

 

For me, a tournament gets it "right" as long as all the players are playing the same course in (relatively) the same conditions. If that happens then the best player that week will be identified whether the winning score is -20 or +4. The folks who argue that par is just a number are the same folks who howl in protest when the winning score is over par. Every single week is a birdie buffet for these guys. There should be at least one week, one tournament where they're forced to eat their vegetables.

 

The reason I come down on this side of the debate is one of branding. The USGA doesn't always get it right. Heck, they've admitted as much. But, like it or not, this is a binary debate. You're either with the USGA or against them. And if you're against them, you're essentially arguing for the US Open to lose its flavor, the distinctiveness that differentiates it. You're essentially arguing for two PGA Championships.

 

Every major has it's own distinct feel. The Masters has its traditions and diabolical greens. The British Open has its history and unpredictable weather. The US Open has its democratization and brutal course conditions. The PGA is the only one of the majors without a distinct identity and feel. And it has suffered for it. If you rob the US Open of its identity as the toughest test these guys face, then you're condemning it to being just another PGA Championship. If you just can't stomach par being a good score because it's "boring" or whatever, take heart, the Travelers starts in just six days.