Pros and others throw USGA under the bus.

[buckeyefl]

> @youdamantiger said:

> I think the USGA takes a lot of completely unnecessary and unfair flak from pros and from fans who take their cue from the pros. Look, players b*tch. It's just what they do. If there's a par 5 they can't reach. If there's rough that they can't knock it on the green from. If there's a hole location that requires a precise shot otherwise a three-putt is a real possibility. If a butterfly farts in their downswing. If their courtesy van to the course is two minutes late. There is no end to the number of things that can raise a player's ire. And the USGA is an easy target because they host the toughest tournament on the schedule.

>

> For me, a tournament gets it "right" as long as all the players are playing the same course in (relatively) the same conditions. If that happens then the best player that week will be identified whether the winning score is -20 or +4. The folks who argue that par is just a number are the same folks who howl in protest when the winning score is over par. Every single week is a birdie buffet for these guys. There should be at least one week, one tournament where they're forced to eat their vegetables.

>

> The reason I come down on this side of the debate is one of branding. The USGA doesn't always get it right. Heck, they've admitted as much. But, like it or not, this is a binary debate. You're either with the USGA or against them. And if you're against them, you're essentially arguing for the US Open to lose its flavor, the distinctiveness that differentiates it. You're essentially arguing for two PGA Championships.

>

> Every major has it's own distinct feel. The Masters has its traditions and diabolical greens. The British Open has its history and unpredictable weather. The US Open has its democratization and brutal course conditions. The PGA is the only one of the majors without a distinct identity and feel. And it has suffered for it. If you rob the US Open of it's identity as the toughest test these guys face, then you're condemning it to being just another PGA Championship. If you just can't stomach par being a good score because it's "boring" or whatever, take heart, the Travelers starts in just six days.

>

 

Your first paragraph so so full of false facts and ridiculous exaggeration that it's laughable. And no it's not binary in the least. Adjusting things to a ridiculous level to guard an imaginary number while taking things to and past the line of common Sense and good taste doesn't make for a good course set up and certainly not professional.

 

. Lots of off base points, misunderstandings of golf, the USGA and people's views in that post.

[cxx]

Sorry but the USGA has managed to tarnish the US Open. Not what you want from the ruling body of golf in the US. Maybe this year will be the start of the recovery. Otherwise they should clean out the management and try again.

[youdamantiger]

> @buckeyefl said:

> > @youdamantiger said:

> > I think the USGA takes a lot of completely unnecessary and unfair flak from pros and from fans who take their cue from the pros. Look, players b*tch. It's just what they do. If there's a par 5 they can't reach. If there's rough that they can't knock it on the green from. If there's a hole location that requires a precise shot otherwise a three-putt is a real possibility. If a butterfly farts in their downswing. If their courtesy van to the course is two minutes late. There is no end to the number of things that can raise a player's ire. And the USGA is an easy target because they host the toughest tournament on the schedule.

> >

> > For me, a tournament gets it "right" as long as all the players are playing the same course in (relatively) the same conditions. If that happens then the best player that week will be identified whether the winning score is -20 or +4. The folks who argue that par is just a number are the same folks who howl in protest when the winning score is over par. Every single week is a birdie buffet for these guys. There should be at least one week, one tournament where they're forced to eat their vegetables.

> >

> > The reason I come down on this side of the debate is one of branding. The USGA doesn't always get it right. Heck, they've admitted as much. But, like it or not, this is a binary debate. You're either with the USGA or against them. And if you're against them, you're essentially arguing for the US Open to lose its flavor, the distinctiveness that differentiates it. You're essentially arguing for two PGA Championships.

> >

> > Every major has it's own distinct feel. The Masters has its traditions and diabolical greens. The British Open has its history and unpredictable weather. The US Open has its democratization and brutal course conditions. The PGA is the only one of the majors without a distinct identity and feel. And it has suffered for it. If you rob the US Open of it's identity as the toughest test these guys face, then you're condemning it to being just another PGA Championship. If you just can't stomach par being a good score because it's "boring" or whatever, take heart, the Travelers starts in just six days.

> >

>

> Your first paragraph so so full of false facts and ridiculous exaggeration that it's laughable. And no it's not binary in the least. Adjusting things to a ridiculous level to guard an imaginary number while taking things to and past the line of common Sense and good taste doesn't make for a good course set up and certainly not professional.

>

> . Lots of off base points, misunderstandings of golf, the USGA and people's views in that post.

 

What exactly is false? That players b*tch? That the US Open is the toughest tournament on the schedule?

 

Don't take this the wrong way but...are you high or retarded?

[buckeyefl]

> @youdamantiger said:

> > @buckeyefl said:

> > > @youdamantiger said:

> > > I think the USGA takes a lot of completely unnecessary and unfair flak from pros and from fans who take their cue from the pros. Look, players b*tch. It's just what they do. If there's a par 5 they can't reach. If there's rough that they can't knock it on the green from. If there's a hole location that requires a precise shot otherwise a three-putt is a real possibility. If a butterfly farts in their downswing. If their courtesy van to the course is two minutes late. There is no end to the number of things that can raise a player's ire. And the USGA is an easy target because they host the toughest tournament on the schedule.

> > >

> > > For me, a tournament gets it "right" as long as all the players are playing the same course in (relatively) the same conditions. If that happens then the best player that week will be identified whether the winning score is -20 or +4. The folks who argue that par is just a number are the same folks who howl in protest when the winning score is over par. Every single week is a birdie buffet for these guys. There should be at least one week, one tournament where they're forced to eat their vegetables.

> > >

> > > The reason I come down on this side of the debate is one of branding. The USGA doesn't always get it right. Heck, they've admitted as much. But, like it or not, this is a binary debate. You're either with the USGA or against them. And if you're against them, you're essentially arguing for the US Open to lose its flavor, the distinctiveness that differentiates it. You're essentially arguing for two PGA Championships.

> > >

> > > Every major has it's own distinct feel. The Masters has its traditions and diabolical greens. The British Open has its history and unpredictable weather. The US Open has its democratization and brutal course conditions. The PGA is the only one of the majors without a distinct identity and feel. And it has suffered for it. If you rob the US Open of it's identity as the toughest test these guys face, then you're condemning it to being just another PGA Championship. If you just can't stomach par being a good score because it's "boring" or whatever, take heart, the Travelers starts in just six days.

> > >

> >

> > Your first paragraph so so full of false facts and ridiculous exaggeration that it's laughable. And no it's not binary in the least. Adjusting things to a ridiculous level to guard an imaginary number while taking things to and past the line of common Sense and good taste doesn't make for a good course set up and certainly not professional.

> >

> > . Lots of off base points, misunderstandings of golf, the USGA and people's views in that post.

>

> What exactly is false? That players don't b*tch? That the US Open isn't the toughest tournament on the schedule?

>

> Don't take this the wrong way but...are you high or retarded?

 

Neither. Informed and realistic. Your sweeping generalizations show you are otherwise. Don't take this the wrong way but I'm going to guess I have more time dealing with both groups than you do. Try using the word "some" next time.

 

No one, NO ONE, is saying it shouldn't be "tough" so there goes that argument.

 

Fans don't b**** because the players do. They b**** because the recognize stupid and unfair.

 

Being "against" the USGA and some if it's moronic decisions is not arguing for the US Open to lose its flavor. It's arguing for the USGA to come down from it's Ivory Tower and stop basing things on a standard that causes to to butcher a course in order to make yourself feel better.

 

The list goes on.

[North Texas]

> @buckeyefl said:

> > @youdamantiger said:

> > > @buckeyefl said:

> > > > @youdamantiger said:

> > > > I think the USGA takes a lot of completely unnecessary and unfair flak from pros and from fans who take their cue from the pros. Look, players b*tch. It's just what they do. If there's a par 5 they can't reach. If there's rough that they can't knock it on the green from. If there's a hole location that requires a precise shot otherwise a three-putt is a real possibility. If a butterfly farts in their downswing. If their courtesy van to the course is two minutes late. There is no end to the number of things that can raise a player's ire. And the USGA is an easy target because they host the toughest tournament on the schedule.

> > > >

> > > > For me, a tournament gets it "right" as long as all the players are playing the same course in (relatively) the same conditions. If that happens then the best player that week will be identified whether the winning score is -20 or +4. The folks who argue that par is just a number are the same folks who howl in protest when the winning score is over par. Every single week is a birdie buffet for these guys. There should be at least one week, one tournament where they're forced to eat their vegetables.

> > > >

> > > > The reason I come down on this side of the debate is one of branding. The USGA doesn't always get it right. Heck, they've admitted as much. But, like it or not, this is a binary debate. You're either with the USGA or against them. And if you're against them, you're essentially arguing for the US Open to lose its flavor, the distinctiveness that differentiates it. You're essentially arguing for two PGA Championships.

> > > >

> > > > Every major has it's own distinct feel. The Masters has its traditions and diabolical greens. The British Open has its history and unpredictable weather. The US Open has its democratization and brutal course conditions. The PGA is the only one of the majors without a distinct identity and feel. And it has suffered for it. If you rob the US Open of it's identity as the toughest test these guys face, then you're condemning it to being just another PGA Championship. If you just can't stomach par being a good score because it's "boring" or whatever, take heart, the Travelers starts in just six days.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Your first paragraph so so full of false facts and ridiculous exaggeration that it's laughable. And no it's not binary in the least. Adjusting things to a ridiculous level to guard an imaginary number while taking things to and past the line of common Sense and good taste doesn't make for a good course set up and certainly not professional.

> > >

> > > . Lots of off base points, misunderstandings of golf, the USGA and people's views in that post.

> >

> > What exactly is false? That players don't b*tch? That the US Open isn't the toughest tournament on the schedule?

> >

> > Don't take this the wrong way but...are you high or retarded?

>

> Neither. Informed and realistic. Your sweeping generalizations show you are otherwise. Don't take this the wrong way but I'm going to guess I have more time dealing with both groups than you do. Try using the word "some" next time.

 

He did nothing in his post that critics of the USGA don't also do. Even Ray Charles could see that it's a two-way street.

[johnnypro]

> @buckeyefl said:

> > @youdamantiger said:

> > I think the USGA takes a lot of completely unnecessary and unfair flak from pros and from fans who take their cue from the pros. Look, players b*tch. It's just what they do. If there's a par 5 they can't reach. If there's rough that they can't knock it on the green from. If there's a hole location that requires a precise shot otherwise a three-putt is a real possibility. If a butterfly farts in their downswing. If their courtesy van to the course is two minutes late. There is no end to the number of things that can raise a player's ire. And the USGA is an easy target because they host the toughest tournament on the schedule.

> >

> > For me, a tournament gets it "right" as long as all the players are playing the same course in (relatively) the same conditions. If that happens then the best player that week will be identified whether the winning score is -20 or +4. The folks who argue that par is just a number are the same folks who howl in protest when the winning score is over par. Every single week is a birdie buffet for these guys. There should be at least one week, one tournament where they're forced to eat their vegetables.

> >

> > The reason I come down on this side of the debate is one of branding. The USGA doesn't always get it right. Heck, they've admitted as much. But, like it or not, this is a binary debate. You're either with the USGA or against them. And if you're against them, you're essentially arguing for the US Open to lose its flavor, the distinctiveness that differentiates it. You're essentially arguing for two PGA Championships.

> >

> > Every major has it's own distinct feel. The Masters has its traditions and diabolical greens. The British Open has its history and unpredictable weather. The US Open has its democratization and brutal course conditions. The PGA is the only one of the majors without a distinct identity and feel. And it has suffered for it. If you rob the US Open of it's identity as the toughest test these guys face, then you're condemning it to being just another PGA Championship. If you just can't stomach par being a good score because it's "boring" or whatever, take heart, the Travelers starts in just six days.

> >

>

> Your first paragraph so so full of false facts and ridiculous exaggeration that it's laughable. And no it's not binary in the least. Adjusting things to a ridiculous level to guard an imaginary number while taking things to and past the line of common Sense and good taste doesn't make for a good course set up and certainly not professional.

>

> . Lots of off base points, misunderstandings of golf, the USGA and people's views in that post.

What false facts?? He's 100% right.....these guys are the biggest whiners on the planet.

They'll complain about anything & everything. I don't agree with the USGA 100% of the time, but overall they do a great job.

Maybe they get a bit overzealous at times but, in the final analysis....so what? It's the US Open!

I go back to the book, "Massacre at Winged Foot." One of the pros (can't remember who) admitted he thought rough was too high, the fairways too narrow and the greens too fast.

But then he said, "on the other hand, no one put a gun to my head to play here."

 

 

[buckeyefl]

> @johnnypro said:

> > @buckeyefl said:

> > > @youdamantiger said:

> > > I think the USGA takes a lot of completely unnecessary and unfair flak from pros and from fans who take their cue from the pros. Look, players b*tch. It's just what they do. If there's a par 5 they can't reach. If there's rough that they can't knock it on the green from. If there's a hole location that requires a precise shot otherwise a three-putt is a real possibility. If a butterfly farts in their downswing. If their courtesy van to the course is two minutes late. There is no end to the number of things that can raise a player's ire. And the USGA is an easy target because they host the toughest tournament on the schedule.

> > >

> > > For me, a tournament gets it "right" as long as all the players are playing the same course in (relatively) the same conditions. If that happens then the best player that week will be identified whether the winning score is -20 or +4. The folks who argue that par is just a number are the same folks who howl in protest when the winning score is over par. Every single week is a birdie buffet for these guys. There should be at least one week, one tournament where they're forced to eat their vegetables.

> > >

> > > The reason I come down on this side of the debate is one of branding. The USGA doesn't always get it right. Heck, they've admitted as much. But, like it or not, this is a binary debate. You're either with the USGA or against them. And if you're against them, you're essentially arguing for the US Open to lose its flavor, the distinctiveness that differentiates it. You're essentially arguing for two PGA Championships.

> > >

> > > Every major has it's own distinct feel. The Masters has its traditions and diabolical greens. The British Open has its history and unpredictable weather. The US Open has its democratization and brutal course conditions. The PGA is the only one of the majors without a distinct identity and feel. And it has suffered for it. If you rob the US Open of it's identity as the toughest test these guys face, then you're condemning it to being just another PGA Championship. If you just can't stomach par being a good score because it's "boring" or whatever, take heart, the Travelers starts in just six days.

> > >

> >

> > Your first paragraph so so full of false facts and ridiculous exaggeration that it's laughable. And no it's not binary in the least. Adjusting things to a ridiculous level to guard an imaginary number while taking things to and past the line of common Sense and good taste doesn't make for a good course set up and certainly not professional.

> >

> > . Lots of off base points, misunderstandings of golf, the USGA and people's views in that post.

> What false facts?? He's 100% right.....these guys are the biggest whiners on the planet.

> They'll complain about anything & everything. I don't agree with the USGA 100% of the time, but overall they do a great job.

> Maybe they get a bit overzealous at times but, in the final analysis....so what? It's the US Open!

> I go back to the book, "Massacre at Winged Foot." One of the pros (can't remember who) admitted he thought rough was too high, the fairways too narrow and the greens too fast.

> But then he said, "on the other hand, no one put a gun to my head to play here."

>

>

 

"One of the pros"

[buckeyefl]

> @"North Texas" said:

> > @buckeyefl said:

> > > @youdamantiger said:

> > > > @buckeyefl said:

> > > > > @youdamantiger said:

> > > > > I think the USGA takes a lot of completely unnecessary and unfair flak from pros and from fans who take their cue from the pros. Look, players b*tch. It's just what they do. If there's a par 5 they can't reach. If there's rough that they can't knock it on the green from. If there's a hole location that requires a precise shot otherwise a three-putt is a real possibility. If a butterfly farts in their downswing. If their courtesy van to the course is two minutes late. There is no end to the number of things that can raise a player's ire. And the USGA is an easy target because they host the toughest tournament on the schedule.

> > > > >

> > > > > For me, a tournament gets it "right" as long as all the players are playing the same course in (relatively) the same conditions. If that happens then the best player that week will be identified whether the winning score is -20 or +4. The folks who argue that par is just a number are the same folks who howl in protest when the winning score is over par. Every single week is a birdie buffet for these guys. There should be at least one week, one tournament where they're forced to eat their vegetables.

> > > > >

> > > > > The reason I come down on this side of the debate is one of branding. The USGA doesn't always get it right. Heck, they've admitted as much. But, like it or not, this is a binary debate. You're either with the USGA or against them. And if you're against them, you're essentially arguing for the US Open to lose its flavor, the distinctiveness that differentiates it. You're essentially arguing for two PGA Championships.

> > > > >

> > > > > Every major has it's own distinct feel. The Masters has its traditions and diabolical greens. The British Open has its history and unpredictable weather. The US Open has its democratization and brutal course conditions. The PGA is the only one of the majors without a distinct identity and feel. And it has suffered for it. If you rob the US Open of it's identity as the toughest test these guys face, then you're condemning it to being just another PGA Championship. If you just can't stomach par being a good score because it's "boring" or whatever, take heart, the Travelers starts in just six days.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Your first paragraph so so full of false facts and ridiculous exaggeration that it's laughable. And no it's not binary in the least. Adjusting things to a ridiculous level to guard an imaginary number while taking things to and past the line of common Sense and good taste doesn't make for a good course set up and certainly not professional.

> > > >

> > > > . Lots of off base points, misunderstandings of golf, the USGA and people's views in that post.

> > >

> > > What exactly is false? That players don't b*tch? That the US Open isn't the toughest tournament on the schedule?

> > >

> > > Don't take this the wrong way but...are you high or retarded?

> >

> > Neither. Informed and realistic. Your sweeping generalizations show you are otherwise. Don't take this the wrong way but I'm going to guess I have more time dealing with both groups than you do. Try using the word "some" next time.

>

> He did nothing in his post that critics of the USGA don't also do. Even Ray Charles could see that it's a two-way street.

 

Thank you for making my point. The players aren't all "whiners" ( whatever the hell that means) and the USGA isn't Satan but make sometimes makes horrific decisions and doesn't own them or try to prevent them in the first place. Disagreeing with those decisions does not necessarily make one a "whiner" or "hater".

[gvogel]

> @buckeyefl said:

> > @youdamantiger said:

> > I think the USGA takes a lot of completely unnecessary and unfair flak from pros and from fans who take their cue from the pros. Look, players b*tch. It's just what they do. If there's a par 5 they can't reach. If there's rough that they can't knock it on the green from. If there's a hole location that requires a precise shot otherwise a three-putt is a real possibility. If a butterfly farts in their downswing. If their courtesy van to the course is two minutes late. There is no end to the number of things that can raise a player's ire. And the USGA is an easy target because they host the toughest tournament on the schedule.

> >

> > For me, a tournament gets it "right" as long as all the players are playing the same course in (relatively) the same conditions. If that happens then the best player that week will be identified whether the winning score is -20 or +4. The folks who argue that par is just a number are the same folks who howl in protest when the winning score is over par. Every single week is a birdie buffet for these guys. There should be at least one week, one tournament where they're forced to eat their vegetables.

> >

> > The reason I come down on this side of the debate is one of branding. The USGA doesn't always get it right. Heck, they've admitted as much. But, like it or not, this is a binary debate. You're either with the USGA or against them. And if you're against them, you're essentially arguing for the US Open to lose its flavor, the distinctiveness that differentiates it. You're essentially arguing for two PGA Championships.

> >

> > Every major has it's own distinct feel. The Masters has its traditions and diabolical greens. The British Open has its history and unpredictable weather. The US Open has its democratization and brutal course conditions. The PGA is the only one of the majors without a distinct identity and feel. And it has suffered for it. If you rob the US Open of it's identity as the toughest test these guys face, then you're condemning it to being just another PGA Championship. If you just can't stomach par being a good score because it's "boring" or whatever, take heart, the Travelers starts in just six days.

> >

>

> Your first paragraph so so full of false facts and ridiculous exaggeration that it's laughable. And no it's not binary in the least. Adjusting things to a ridiculous level to guard an imaginary number while taking things to and past the line of common Sense and good taste doesn't make for a good course set up and certainly not professional.

>

> . Lots of off base points, misunderstandings of golf, the USGA and people's views in that post.

 

I think that if you are going to continue to carp on the USGA, you might as well tune out, and tune in again next week for the Travelers.

 

They try to set up a very difficult course to identify a true national champion. In the past they have succeeded much more often than not. Most of us enjoy their championships, and accept that an occasional mistake is made.

[buckeyefl]

> @gvogel said:

> > @buckeyefl said:

> > > @youdamantiger said:

> > > I think the USGA takes a lot of completely unnecessary and unfair flak from pros and from fans who take their cue from the pros. Look, players b*tch. It's just what they do. If there's a par 5 they can't reach. If there's rough that they can't knock it on the green from. If there's a hole location that requires a precise shot otherwise a three-putt is a real possibility. If a butterfly farts in their downswing. If their courtesy van to the course is two minutes late. There is no end to the number of things that can raise a player's ire. And the USGA is an easy target because they host the toughest tournament on the schedule.

> > >

> > > For me, a tournament gets it "right" as long as all the players are playing the same course in (relatively) the same conditions. If that happens then the best player that week will be identified whether the winning score is -20 or +4. The folks who argue that par is just a number are the same folks who howl in protest when the winning score is over par. Every single week is a birdie buffet for these guys. There should be at least one week, one tournament where they're forced to eat their vegetables.

> > >

> > > The reason I come down on this side of the debate is one of branding. The USGA doesn't always get it right. Heck, they've admitted as much. But, like it or not, this is a binary debate. You're either with the USGA or against them. And if you're against them, you're essentially arguing for the US Open to lose its flavor, the distinctiveness that differentiates it. You're essentially arguing for two PGA Championships.

> > >

> > > Every major has it's own distinct feel. The Masters has its traditions and diabolical greens. The British Open has its history and unpredictable weather. The US Open has its democratization and brutal course conditions. The PGA is the only one of the majors without a distinct identity and feel. And it has suffered for it. If you rob the US Open of it's identity as the toughest test these guys face, then you're condemning it to being just another PGA Championship. If you just can't stomach par being a good score because it's "boring" or whatever, take heart, the Travelers starts in just six days.

> > >

> >

> > Your first paragraph so so full of false facts and ridiculous exaggeration that it's laughable. And no it's not binary in the least. Adjusting things to a ridiculous level to guard an imaginary number while taking things to and past the line of common Sense and good taste doesn't make for a good course set up and certainly not professional.

> >

> > . Lots of off base points, misunderstandings of golf, the USGA and people's views in that post.

>

> I think that if you are going to continue to carp on the USGA, you might as well tune out, and tune in again next week for the Travelers.

>

> They try to set up a very difficult course to identify a true national champion. In the past they have succeeded much more often than not. Most of us enjoy their championships, and accept that an occasional mistake is made.

 

Thankfully you don't get to make that decision for anyone except maybe your children.

 

Pointing out heinous, self centered decisions is not crapping on anything, it's reality. I love the US Open and because of all of the "crapping" they have made some good decisions. If the weather changes all of the hand wringing about the low score will go away.

 

BTW. A mistake is forgetting to use your turn signal. Purposely forgetting to water the greens after seeing the forecast then laughably blaming a John Doe crew member for the mistake, well, let's just say that's not a mistake. Multiple years of prep and staff on hand that handles the course under every condition and not listening to them makes it a very stupid decision worthy of constant ridicule.

[RobS14526]

Carp

 

carp1[ kahrp ]

 

verb (used without object)

to find fault or complain querulously or unreasonably; be niggling in criticizing; cavil:

to carp at minor errors.

 

noun

a peevish complaint.

[Shilgy]

> @buckeyefl said:

> > @johnnypro said:

> > > @buckeyefl said:

> > > > @youdamantiger said:

> > > > I think the USGA takes a lot of completely unnecessary and unfair flak from pros and from fans who take their cue from the pros. Look, players b*tch. It's just what they do. If there's a par 5 they can't reach. If there's rough that they can't knock it on the green from. If there's a hole location that requires a precise shot otherwise a three-putt is a real possibility. If a butterfly farts in their downswing. If their courtesy van to the course is two minutes late. There is no end to the number of things that can raise a player's ire. And the USGA is an easy target because they host the toughest tournament on the schedule.

> > > >

> > > > For me, a tournament gets it "right" as long as all the players are playing the same course in (relatively) the same conditions. If that happens then the best player that week will be identified whether the winning score is -20 or +4. The folks who argue that par is just a number are the same folks who howl in protest when the winning score is over par. Every single week is a birdie buffet for these guys. There should be at least one week, one tournament where they're forced to eat their vegetables.

> > > >

> > > > The reason I come down on this side of the debate is one of branding. The USGA doesn't always get it right. Heck, they've admitted as much. But, like it or not, this is a binary debate. You're either with the USGA or against them. And if you're against them, you're essentially arguing for the US Open to lose its flavor, the distinctiveness that differentiates it. You're essentially arguing for two PGA Championships.

> > > >

> > > > Every major has it's own distinct feel. The Masters has its traditions and diabolical greens. The British Open has its history and unpredictable weather. The US Open has its democratization and brutal course conditions. The PGA is the only one of the majors without a distinct identity and feel. And it has suffered for it. If you rob the US Open of it's identity as the toughest test these guys face, then you're condemning it to being just another PGA Championship. If you just can't stomach par being a good score because it's "boring" or whatever, take heart, the Travelers starts in just six days.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Your first paragraph so so full of false facts and ridiculous exaggeration that it's laughable. And no it's not binary in the least. Adjusting things to a ridiculous level to guard an imaginary number while taking things to and past the line of common Sense and good taste doesn't make for a good course set up and certainly not professional.

> > >

> > > . Lots of off base points, misunderstandings of golf, the USGA and people's views in that post.

> > What false facts?? He's 100% right.....these guys are the biggest whiners on the planet.

> > They'll complain about anything & everything. I don't agree with the USGA 100% of the time, but overall they do a great job.

> > Maybe they get a bit overzealous at times but, in the final analysis....so what? It's the US Open!

> > I go back to the book, "Massacre at Winged Foot." One of the pros (can't remember who) admitted he thought rough was too high, the fairways too narrow and the greens too fast.

> > But then he said, "on the other hand, no one put a gun to my head to play here."

> >

> >

>

> "One of the pros"

 

Note-he did not post this was the only pro that had an issue with WF in '74. He was just saying that one of the pros said...... and the quote. It would be silly to post a quote ans say they all said exactly the same thing.

[Roadking2003]

> @"Birdie Mac" said:> Not sure how this falsehood is still floating around. In fact, he didn't call out the USGA.

 

He absolutely did call out the USGA. Not verbally, but the entire episode was all about giving the middle finger to the USGA.

[Darth Putter]

> @gvogel said:

> > @Shilgy said:

> > > @tannyhoban said:

> > > > @gvogel said:

> > > > > @tannyhoban said:

> > > > > Well shoot, I can remember Hale Irwin calling Hazeltine a cow pasture.

> > > >

> > > > I think that was Dave Hill.

> > > >

> > > > Edit: it was Dave Hill.

> > >

> > > Ha. Yes it was.

> >

> > Want it in reference to a corn field as well? Not a core pasture?

>

> When asked what he thought about the golf course, Hill said "I'm still looking for it."

>

> Later, "Hazeltine lacked 80 acres of corn and a few cows." "They ruined a good farm when they built this golf course."

 

If anything, Dave Hill was being too nice.

[Roadking2003]

> @davep043 said:>

> I agree completely, for the John Deere. at the US Open, it's supposed to be more demanding.

 

So, for the US Open throw out the USGA pin placement guidelines?

[North Butte]

> @RobS14526 said:

> Carp

>

> carp1[ kahrp ]

>

> verb (used without object)

> to find fault or complain querulously or unreasonably; be niggling in criticizing; cavil:

> to carp at minor errors.

>

> noun

> a peevish complaint.

 


 

[Birdie Mac]

> @Roadking2003 said:

> > @"Birdie Mac" said:> Not sure how this falsehood is still floating around. In fact, he didn't call out the USGA.

>

> He absolutely did call out the USGA. Not verbally, but the entire episode was all about giving the middle finger to the USGA.

That might have been his intention, but as he didn't follow up with pointed words after the round, he just came off looking foolish. He's never been shy about speaking up. I think he probably realized he screwed up after he left the green and tried to make the best of it. Not heroic at all.

 

[Shilgy]

> @Roadking2003 said:

> > @davep043 said:>

> > I agree completely, for the John Deere. at the US Open, it's supposed to be more demanding.

>

> So, for the US Open throw out the USGA pin placement guidelines?

 

But the guideline does not say it must be flat around the hole.

-nearly level as possible and of uniform grade

-A player above the hole should be able to stop the ball at the hole.

-there is no such thing as an "illegal" hole location

 

Based on modern green speeds in events at the highest level many of the older courses cannot satisfy the "nearly level" suggestion all four days. But they generally can fulfill the "uniform grade" part of it. Do mistakes get made on hole positions? Of course it has happened. Olympic was the worst example.

[bladehunter]

> @davep043 said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @"North Texas" said:

> > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > Lol tooo hard for a baked green and a pin placed on a ledge. Yes. But that’s my point. Move the pin 3 ft deeper. If he putts it 4 ft by , then it’s on him. I don’t think you could stop a putt by that hole from above it.

> > >

> > > Did anyone else putt the ball off the green from above it? And I just went and looked at a video of the putt and he HAMMERED the **** putt!

> >

> > Watched it again myself. I just don’t think so. He might could have breathed on it to lag it down. But no way to get it past that hole and stop it. The 3rd putt Hits the hole from 3 ft otherwise it goes off.

> Wait, he COULD have breathed on it to lag it, you say. And he didn't do that, he hit it harder, which turned out to be too hard. And somehow that is the fault of the USGA, and Phil is blameless.

>

 

On a relatively flattish putt. Yes> @youdamantiger said:

> I think the USGA takes a lot of completely unnecessary and unfair flak from pros and from fans who take their cue from the pros. Look, players b*tch. It's just what they do. If there's a par 5 they can't reach. If there's rough that they can't knock it on the green from. If there's a hole location that requires a precise shot otherwise a three-putt is a real possibility. If a butterfly farts in their downswing. If their courtesy van to the course is two minutes late. There is no end to the number of things that can raise a player's ire. And the USGA is an easy target because they host the toughest tournament on the schedule.

>

> For me, a tournament gets it "right" as long as all the players are playing the same course in (relatively) the same conditions. If that happens then the best player that week will be identified whether the winning score is -20 or +4. The folks who argue that par is just a number are the same folks who howl in protest when the winning score is over par. Every single week is a birdie buffet for these guys. There should be at least one week, one tournament where they're forced to eat their vegetables.

>

> The reason I come down on this side of the debate is one of branding. The USGA doesn't always get it right. Heck, they've admitted as much. But, like it or not, this is a binary debate. You're either with the USGA or against them. And if you're against them, you're essentially arguing for the US Open to lose its flavor, the distinctiveness that differentiates it. You're essentially arguing for two PGA Championships.

>

> Every major has it's own distinct feel. The Masters has its traditions and diabolical greens. The British Open has its history and unpredictable weather. The US Open has its democratization and brutal course conditions. The PGA is the only one of the majors without a distinct identity and feel. And it has suffered for it. If you rob the US Open of it's identity as the toughest test these guys face, then you're condemning it to being just another PGA Championship. If you just can't stomach par being a good score because it's "boring" or whatever, take heart, the Travelers starts in just six days.

>

I can go along with you until the last.

 

It’s that very type thinking that has led many good people to their deaths at the hands of dictators speaking for a country.

 

I’m for the idea of the USga. But I don’t have to agree Witt or follow Mike Davis and his smug “ dad talks” . He speaks as of everyone else is beneath him. Less intelligent. Etc. I don’t know if he is a product of the USga. Or if the USga was changed to mirror his attitude. But it’s the problem either way. And the issues being discussed today about the last several years seem to coincide with his reign.

 

That being said. I think this week looks great so far. And I rather enjoy the takes and attitude of the new completion director. So let’s hope the worst is behind us.

 

 

 

[bladehunter]

> @Roadking2003 said:

> > @davep043 said:>

> > I agree completely, for the John Deere. at the US Open, it's supposed to be more demanding.

>

> So, for the US Open throw out the USGA pin placement guidelines?

 

Do as they say. Not as they do.

[rangersgoalie]

> @youdamantiger said:

> > @buckeyefl said:

> > > @youdamantiger said:

> > > I think the USGA takes a lot of completely unnecessary and unfair flak from pros and from fans who take their cue from the pros. Look, players b*tch. It's just what they do. If there's a par 5 they can't reach. If there's rough that they can't knock it on the green from. If there's a hole location that requires a precise shot otherwise a three-putt is a real possibility. If a butterfly farts in their downswing. If their courtesy van to the course is two minutes late. There is no end to the number of things that can raise a player's ire. And the USGA is an easy target because they host the toughest tournament on the schedule.

> > >

> > > For me, a tournament gets it "right" as long as all the players are playing the same course in (relatively) the same conditions. If that happens then the best player that week will be identified whether the winning score is -20 or +4. The folks who argue that par is just a number are the same folks who howl in protest when the winning score is over par. Every single week is a birdie buffet for these guys. There should be at least one week, one tournament where they're forced to eat their vegetables.

> > >

> > > The reason I come down on this side of the debate is one of branding. The USGA doesn't always get it right. Heck, they've admitted as much. But, like it or not, this is a binary debate. You're either with the USGA or against them. And if you're against them, you're essentially arguing for the US Open to lose its flavor, the distinctiveness that differentiates it. You're essentially arguing for two PGA Championships.

> > >

> > > Every major has it's own distinct feel. The Masters has its traditions and diabolical greens. The British Open has its history and unpredictable weather. The US Open has its democratization and brutal course conditions. The PGA is the only one of the majors without a distinct identity and feel. And it has suffered for it. If you rob the US Open of it's identity as the toughest test these guys face, then you're condemning it to being just another PGA Championship. If you just can't stomach par being a good score because it's "boring" or whatever, take heart, the Travelers starts in just six days.

> > >

> >

> > Your first paragraph so so full of false facts and ridiculous exaggeration that it's laughable. And no it's not binary in the least. Adjusting things to a ridiculous level to guard an imaginary number while taking things to and past the line of common Sense and good taste doesn't make for a good course set up and certainly not professional.

> >

> > . Lots of off base points, misunderstandings of golf, the USGA and people's views in that post.

>

> What exactly is false? That players b*tch? That the US Open is the toughest tournament on the schedule?

>

> Don't take this the wrong way but...are you high or retarded?

 

Curious while following this......what IS the wrong way to take that :)

[johnnypro]

> @buckeyefl said:

> > @gvogel said:

> > > @buckeyefl said:

> > > > @youdamantiger said:

> > > > I think the USGA takes a lot of completely unnecessary and unfair flak from pros and from fans who take their cue from the pros. Look, players b*tch. It's just what they do. If there's a par 5 they can't reach. If there's rough that they can't knock it on the green from. If there's a hole location that requires a precise shot otherwise a three-putt is a real possibility. If a butterfly farts in their downswing. If their courtesy van to the course is two minutes late. There is no end to the number of things that can raise a player's ire. And the USGA is an easy target because they host the toughest tournament on the schedule.

> > > >

> > > > For me, a tournament gets it "right" as long as all the players are playing the same course in (relatively) the same conditions. If that happens then the best player that week will be identified whether the winning score is -20 or +4. The folks who argue that par is just a number are the same folks who howl in protest when the winning score is over par. Every single week is a birdie buffet for these guys. There should be at least one week, one tournament where they're forced to eat their vegetables.

> > > >

> > > > The reason I come down on this side of the debate is one of branding. The USGA doesn't always get it right. Heck, they've admitted as much. But, like it or not, this is a binary debate. You're either with the USGA or against them. And if you're against them, you're essentially arguing for the US Open to lose its flavor, the distinctiveness that differentiates it. You're essentially arguing for two PGA Championships.

> > > >

> > > > Every major has it's own distinct feel. The Masters has its traditions and diabolical greens. The British Open has its history and unpredictable weather. The US Open has its democratization and brutal course conditions. The PGA is the only one of the majors without a distinct identity and feel. And it has suffered for it. If you rob the US Open of it's identity as the toughest test these guys face, then you're condemning it to being just another PGA Championship. If you just can't stomach par being a good score because it's "boring" or whatever, take heart, the Travelers starts in just six days.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Your first paragraph so so full of false facts and ridiculous exaggeration that it's laughable. And no it's not binary in the least. Adjusting things to a ridiculous level to guard an imaginary number while taking things to and past the line of common Sense and good taste doesn't make for a good course set up and certainly not professional.

> > >

> > > . Lots of off base points, misunderstandings of golf, the USGA and people's views in that post.

> >

> > I think that if you are going to continue to carp on the USGA, you might as well tune out, and tune in again next week for the Travelers.

> >

> > They try to set up a very difficult course to identify a true national champion. In the past they have succeeded much more often than not. Most of us enjoy their championships, and accept that an occasional mistake is made.

>

> Thankfully you don't get to make that decision for anyone except maybe your children.

>

> Pointing out heinous, self centered decisions is not crapping on anything, it's reality. I love the US Open and because of all of the "crapping" they have made some good decisions. If the weather changes all of the hand wringing about the low score will go away.

>

> BTW. A mistake is forgetting to use your turn signal. Purposely forgetting to water the greens after seeing the forecast then laughably blaming a John Doe crew member for the mistake, well, let's just say that's not a mistake. Multiple years of prep and staff on hand that handles the course under every condition and not listening to them makes it a very stupid decision worthy of constant ridicule.

Heinous?! That's a bit strong, no?

 

 

[jonsnow]

> @rangersgoalie said:

> > @youdamantiger said:

> > > @buckeyefl said:

> > > > @youdamantiger said:

> > > > I think the USGA takes a lot of completely unnecessary and unfair flak from pros and from fans who take their cue from the pros. Look, players b*tch. It's just what they do. If there's a par 5 they can't reach. If there's rough that they can't knock it on the green from. If there's a hole location that requires a precise shot otherwise a three-putt is a real possibility. If a butterfly farts in their downswing. If their courtesy van to the course is two minutes late. There is no end to the number of things that can raise a player's ire. And the USGA is an easy target because they host the toughest tournament on the schedule.

> > > >

> > > > For me, a tournament gets it "right" as long as all the players are playing the same course in (relatively) the same conditions. If that happens then the best player that week will be identified whether the winning score is -20 or +4. The folks who argue that par is just a number are the same folks who howl in protest when the winning score is over par. Every single week is a birdie buffet for these guys. There should be at least one week, one tournament where they're forced to eat their vegetables.

> > > >

> > > > The reason I come down on this side of the debate is one of branding. The USGA doesn't always get it right. Heck, they've admitted as much. But, like it or not, this is a binary debate. You're either with the USGA or against them. And if you're against them, you're essentially arguing for the US Open to lose its flavor, the distinctiveness that differentiates it. You're essentially arguing for two PGA Championships.

> > > >

> > > > Every major has it's own distinct feel. The Masters has its traditions and diabolical greens. The British Open has its history and unpredictable weather. The US Open has its democratization and brutal course conditions. The PGA is the only one of the majors without a distinct identity and feel. And it has suffered for it. If you rob the US Open of it's identity as the toughest test these guys face, then you're condemning it to being just another PGA Championship. If you just can't stomach par being a good score because it's "boring" or whatever, take heart, the Travelers starts in just six days.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Your first paragraph so so full of false facts and ridiculous exaggeration that it's laughable. And no it's not binary in the least. Adjusting things to a ridiculous level to guard an imaginary number while taking things to and past the line of common Sense and good taste doesn't make for a good course set up and certainly not professional.

> > >

> > > . Lots of off base points, misunderstandings of golf, the USGA and people's views in that post.

> >

> > What exactly is false? That players b*tch? That the US Open is the toughest tournament on the schedule?

> >

> > Don't take this the wrong way but...are you high or retarded?

>

> Curious while following this......what IS the wrong way to take that :)

 

I don't think there's a right way to take that...

 

BTW, it's no longer retarded, it's special needs.

[umassgolfer]

How is this conversation still going on? Has anyone been converted one way or another? Time for this thing to die I think.

[youdamantiger]

> @rangersgoalie said:

> > @youdamantiger said:

> > > @buckeyefl said:

> > > > @youdamantiger said:

> > > > I think the USGA takes a lot of completely unnecessary and unfair flak from pros and from fans who take their cue from the pros. Look, players b*tch. It's just what they do. If there's a par 5 they can't reach. If there's rough that they can't knock it on the green from. If there's a hole location that requires a precise shot otherwise a three-putt is a real possibility. If a butterfly farts in their downswing. If their courtesy van to the course is two minutes late. There is no end to the number of things that can raise a player's ire. And the USGA is an easy target because they host the toughest tournament on the schedule.

> > > >

> > > > For me, a tournament gets it "right" as long as all the players are playing the same course in (relatively) the same conditions. If that happens then the best player that week will be identified whether the winning score is -20 or +4. The folks who argue that par is just a number are the same folks who howl in protest when the winning score is over par. Every single week is a birdie buffet for these guys. There should be at least one week, one tournament where they're forced to eat their vegetables.

> > > >

> > > > The reason I come down on this side of the debate is one of branding. The USGA doesn't always get it right. Heck, they've admitted as much. But, like it or not, this is a binary debate. You're either with the USGA or against them. And if you're against them, you're essentially arguing for the US Open to lose its flavor, the distinctiveness that differentiates it. You're essentially arguing for two PGA Championships.

> > > >

> > > > Every major has it's own distinct feel. The Masters has its traditions and diabolical greens. The British Open has its history and unpredictable weather. The US Open has its democratization and brutal course conditions. The PGA is the only one of the majors without a distinct identity and feel. And it has suffered for it. If you rob the US Open of it's identity as the toughest test these guys face, then you're condemning it to being just another PGA Championship. If you just can't stomach par being a good score because it's "boring" or whatever, take heart, the Travelers starts in just six days.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Your first paragraph so so full of false facts and ridiculous exaggeration that it's laughable. And no it's not binary in the least. Adjusting things to a ridiculous level to guard an imaginary number while taking things to and past the line of common Sense and good taste doesn't make for a good course set up and certainly not professional.

> > >

> > > . Lots of off base points, misunderstandings of golf, the USGA and people's views in that post.

> >

> > What exactly is false? That players b*tch? That the US Open is the toughest tournament on the schedule?

> >

> > Don't take this the wrong way but...are you high or retarded?

>

> Curious while following this......what IS the wrong way to take that :)

 

> @rangersgoalie said:

> > @youdamantiger said:

> > > @buckeyefl said:

> > > > @youdamantiger said:

> > > > I think the USGA takes a lot of completely unnecessary and unfair flak from pros and from fans who take their cue from the pros. Look, players b*tch. It's just what they do. If there's a par 5 they can't reach. If there's rough that they can't knock it on the green from. If there's a hole location that requires a precise shot otherwise a three-putt is a real possibility. If a butterfly farts in their downswing. If their courtesy van to the course is two minutes late. There is no end to the number of things that can raise a player's ire. And the USGA is an easy target because they host the toughest tournament on the schedule.

> > > >

> > > > For me, a tournament gets it "right" as long as all the players are playing the same course in (relatively) the same conditions. If that happens then the best player that week will be identified whether the winning score is -20 or +4. The folks who argue that par is just a number are the same folks who howl in protest when the winning score is over par. Every single week is a birdie buffet for these guys. There should be at least one week, one tournament where they're forced to eat their vegetables.

> > > >

> > > > The reason I come down on this side of the debate is one of branding. The USGA doesn't always get it right. Heck, they've admitted as much. But, like it or not, this is a binary debate. You're either with the USGA or against them. And if you're against them, you're essentially arguing for the US Open to lose its flavor, the distinctiveness that differentiates it. You're essentially arguing for two PGA Championships.

> > > >

> > > > Every major has it's own distinct feel. The Masters has its traditions and diabolical greens. The British Open has its history and unpredictable weather. The US Open has its democratization and brutal course conditions. The PGA is the only one of the majors without a distinct identity and feel. And it has suffered for it. If you rob the US Open of it's identity as the toughest test these guys face, then you're condemning it to being just another PGA Championship. If you just can't stomach par being a good score because it's "boring" or whatever, take heart, the Travelers starts in just six days.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Your first paragraph so so full of false facts and ridiculous exaggeration that it's laughable. And no it's not binary in the least. Adjusting things to a ridiculous level to guard an imaginary number while taking things to and past the line of common Sense and good taste doesn't make for a good course set up and certainly not professional.

> > >

> > > . Lots of off base points, misunderstandings of golf, the USGA and people's views in that post.

> >

> > What exactly is false? That players b*tch? That the US Open is the toughest tournament on the schedule?

> >

> > Don't take this the wrong way but...are you high or retarded?

>

> Curious while following this......what IS the wrong way to take that :)

 

The wrong way to take it would be that I was personally attacking him. In reality I was just employing rhetorical absurdity as a way of expressing genuine bewilderment that he could take issue with anything in the first paragraph of my post. I get taking issue with the rest as they’re my opinions but the first paragraph was just objective fact. Tour pros whine an inordinate amount and the US Open is the toughest tournament on tour.

 

 

[Darth Putter]

> @umassgolfer said:

> How is this conversation still going on? Has anyone been converted one way or another? Time for this thing to die I think.

 

My "USGA is happy with new rules" thread only went 12 pages.

[Ashley Schaeffer]

> @youdamantiger said:

> > @rangersgoalie said:

> > > @youdamantiger said:

> > > > @buckeyefl said:

> > > > > @youdamantiger said:

> > > > > I think the USGA takes a lot of completely unnecessary and unfair flak from pros and from fans who take their cue from the pros. Look, players b*tch. It's just what they do. If there's a par 5 they can't reach. If there's rough that they can't knock it on the green from. If there's a hole location that requires a precise shot otherwise a three-putt is a real possibility. If a butterfly farts in their downswing. If their courtesy van to the course is two minutes late. There is no end to the number of things that can raise a player's ire. And the USGA is an easy target because they host the toughest tournament on the schedule.

> > > > >

> > > > > For me, a tournament gets it "right" as long as all the players are playing the same course in (relatively) the same conditions. If that happens then the best player that week will be identified whether the winning score is -20 or +4. The folks who argue that par is just a number are the same folks who howl in protest when the winning score is over par. Every single week is a birdie buffet for these guys. There should be at least one week, one tournament where they're forced to eat their vegetables.

> > > > >

> > > > > The reason I come down on this side of the debate is one of branding. The USGA doesn't always get it right. Heck, they've admitted as much. But, like it or not, this is a binary debate. You're either with the USGA or against them. And if you're against them, you're essentially arguing for the US Open to lose its flavor, the distinctiveness that differentiates it. You're essentially arguing for two PGA Championships.

> > > > >

> > > > > Every major has it's own distinct feel. The Masters has its traditions and diabolical greens. The British Open has its history and unpredictable weather. The US Open has its democratization and brutal course conditions. The PGA is the only one of the majors without a distinct identity and feel. And it has suffered for it. If you rob the US Open of it's identity as the toughest test these guys face, then you're condemning it to being just another PGA Championship. If you just can't stomach par being a good score because it's "boring" or whatever, take heart, the Travelers starts in just six days.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Your first paragraph so so full of false facts and ridiculous exaggeration that it's laughable. And no it's not binary in the least. Adjusting things to a ridiculous level to guard an imaginary number while taking things to and past the line of common Sense and good taste doesn't make for a good course set up and certainly not professional.

> > > >

> > > > . Lots of off base points, misunderstandings of golf, the USGA and people's views in that post.

> > >

> > > What exactly is false? That players b*tch? That the US Open is the toughest tournament on the schedule?

> > >

> > > Don't take this the wrong way but...are you high or retarded?

> >

> > Curious while following this......what IS the wrong way to take that :)

>

> > @rangersgoalie said:

> > > @youdamantiger said:

> > > > @buckeyefl said:

> > > > > @youdamantiger said:

> > > > > I think the USGA takes a lot of completely unnecessary and unfair flak from pros and from fans who take their cue from the pros. Look, players b*tch. It's just what they do. If there's a par 5 they can't reach. If there's rough that they can't knock it on the green from. If there's a hole location that requires a precise shot otherwise a three-putt is a real possibility. If a butterfly farts in their downswing. If their courtesy van to the course is two minutes late. There is no end to the number of things that can raise a player's ire. And the USGA is an easy target because they host the toughest tournament on the schedule.

> > > > >

> > > > > For me, a tournament gets it "right" as long as all the players are playing the same course in (relatively) the same conditions. If that happens then the best player that week will be identified whether the winning score is -20 or +4. The folks who argue that par is just a number are the same folks who howl in protest when the winning score is over par. Every single week is a birdie buffet for these guys. There should be at least one week, one tournament where they're forced to eat their vegetables.

> > > > >

> > > > > The reason I come down on this side of the debate is one of branding. The USGA doesn't always get it right. Heck, they've admitted as much. But, like it or not, this is a binary debate. You're either with the USGA or against them. And if you're against them, you're essentially arguing for the US Open to lose its flavor, the distinctiveness that differentiates it. You're essentially arguing for two PGA Championships.

> > > > >

> > > > > Every major has it's own distinct feel. The Masters has its traditions and diabolical greens. The British Open has its history and unpredictable weather. The US Open has its democratization and brutal course conditions. The PGA is the only one of the majors without a distinct identity and feel. And it has suffered for it. If you rob the US Open of it's identity as the toughest test these guys face, then you're condemning it to being just another PGA Championship. If you just can't stomach par being a good score because it's "boring" or whatever, take heart, the Travelers starts in just six days.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Your first paragraph so so full of false facts and ridiculous exaggeration that it's laughable. And no it's not binary in the least. Adjusting things to a ridiculous level to guard an imaginary number while taking things to and past the line of common Sense and good taste doesn't make for a good course set up and certainly not professional.

> > > >

> > > > . Lots of off base points, misunderstandings of golf, the USGA and people's views in that post.

> > >

> > > What exactly is false? That players b*tch? That the US Open is the toughest tournament on the schedule?

> > >

> > > Don't take this the wrong way but...are you high or retarded?

> >

> > Curious while following this......what IS the wrong way to take that :)

>

> The wrong way to take it would be that I was personally attacking him. In reality I was just employing rhetorical absurdity as a way of expressing genuine bewilderment that he could take issue with anything in the first paragraph of my post. I get taking issue with the rest as they’re my opinions but the first paragraph was just objective fact. Tour pros whine an inordinate amount and the US Open is the toughest tournament on tour.

>

>

 

So, someone disagrees with you, and you ask if they are on drugs or the other thing you wrote? Classy and mature.

 

[buckeyefl]

> @youdamantiger said:

> > @rangersgoalie said:

> > > @youdamantiger said:

> > > > @buckeyefl said:

> > > > > @youdamantiger said:

> > > > > I think the USGA takes a lot of completely unnecessary and unfair flak from pros and from fans who take their cue from the pros. Look, players b*tch. It's just what they do. If there's a par 5 they can't reach. If there's rough that they can't knock it on the green from. If there's a hole location that requires a precise shot otherwise a three-putt is a real possibility. If a butterfly farts in their downswing. If their courtesy van to the course is two minutes late. There is no end to the number of things that can raise a player's ire. And the USGA is an easy target because they host the toughest tournament on the schedule.

> > > > >

> > > > > For me, a tournament gets it "right" as long as all the players are playing the same course in (relatively) the same conditions. If that happens then the best player that week will be identified whether the winning score is -20 or +4. The folks who argue that par is just a number are the same folks who howl in protest when the winning score is over par. Every single week is a birdie buffet for these guys. There should be at least one week, one tournament where they're forced to eat their vegetables.

> > > > >

> > > > > The reason I come down on this side of the debate is one of branding. The USGA doesn't always get it right. Heck, they've admitted as much. But, like it or not, this is a binary debate. You're either with the USGA or against them. And if you're against them, you're essentially arguing for the US Open to lose its flavor, the distinctiveness that differentiates it. You're essentially arguing for two PGA Championships.

> > > > >

> > > > > Every major has it's own distinct feel. The Masters has its traditions and diabolical greens. The British Open has its history and unpredictable weather. The US Open has its democratization and brutal course conditions. The PGA is the only one of the majors without a distinct identity and feel. And it has suffered for it. If you rob the US Open of it's identity as the toughest test these guys face, then you're condemning it to being just another PGA Championship. If you just can't stomach par being a good score because it's "boring" or whatever, take heart, the Travelers starts in just six days.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Your first paragraph so so full of false facts and ridiculous exaggeration that it's laughable. And no it's not binary in the least. Adjusting things to a ridiculous level to guard an imaginary number while taking things to and past the line of common Sense and good taste doesn't make for a good course set up and certainly not professional.

> > > >

> > > > . Lots of off base points, misunderstandings of golf, the USGA and people's views in that post.

> > >

> > > What exactly is false? That players b*tch? That the US Open is the toughest tournament on the schedule?

> > >

> > > Don't take this the wrong way but...are you high or retarded?

> >

> > Curious while following this......what IS the wrong way to take that :)

>

> > @rangersgoalie said:

> > > @youdamantiger said:

> > > > @buckeyefl said:

> > > > > @youdamantiger said:

> > > > > I think the USGA takes a lot of completely unnecessary and unfair flak from pros and from fans who take their cue from the pros. Look, players b*tch. It's just what they do. If there's a par 5 they can't reach. If there's rough that they can't knock it on the green from. If there's a hole location that requires a precise shot otherwise a three-putt is a real possibility. If a butterfly farts in their downswing. If their courtesy van to the course is two minutes late. There is no end to the number of things that can raise a player's ire. And the USGA is an easy target because they host the toughest tournament on the schedule.

> > > > >

> > > > > For me, a tournament gets it "right" as long as all the players are playing the same course in (relatively) the same conditions. If that happens then the best player that week will be identified whether the winning score is -20 or +4. The folks who argue that par is just a number are the same folks who howl in protest when the winning score is over par. Every single week is a birdie buffet for these guys. There should be at least one week, one tournament where they're forced to eat their vegetables.

> > > > >

> > > > > The reason I come down on this side of the debate is one of branding. The USGA doesn't always get it right. Heck, they've admitted as much. But, like it or not, this is a binary debate. You're either with the USGA or against them. And if you're against them, you're essentially arguing for the US Open to lose its flavor, the distinctiveness that differentiates it. You're essentially arguing for two PGA Championships.

> > > > >

> > > > > Every major has it's own distinct feel. The Masters has its traditions and diabolical greens. The British Open has its history and unpredictable weather. The US Open has its democratization and brutal course conditions. The PGA is the only one of the majors without a distinct identity and feel. And it has suffered for it. If you rob the US Open of it's identity as the toughest test these guys face, then you're condemning it to being just another PGA Championship. If you just can't stomach par being a good score because it's "boring" or whatever, take heart, the Travelers starts in just six days.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Your first paragraph so so full of false facts and ridiculous exaggeration that it's laughable. And no it's not binary in the least. Adjusting things to a ridiculous level to guard an imaginary number while taking things to and past the line of common Sense and good taste doesn't make for a good course set up and certainly not professional.

> > > >

> > > > . Lots of off base points, misunderstandings of golf, the USGA and people's views in that post.

> > >

> > > What exactly is false? That players b*tch? That the US Open is the toughest tournament on the schedule?

> > >

> > > Don't take this the wrong way but...are you high or retarded?

> >

> > Curious while following this......what IS the wrong way to take that :)

>

> The wrong way to take it would be that I was personally attacking him. In reality I was just employing rhetorical absurdity as a way of expressing genuine bewilderment that he could take issue with anything in the first paragraph of my post. I get taking issue with the rest as they’re my opinions but the first paragraph was just objective fact. Tour pros whine an inordinate amount and the US Open is the toughest tournament on tour.

>

>

 

Your first paragraph was loaded with absurdity which I pointed out. The fact that you think that is factual is what is bewildering as you seem to not have the words "some" or "a few" in your vocabulary. Exactly how many tour players do you know personally and can you point to all of them complaining about the things you suggest?

 

"Look, players b*tch. It's just what they do. If there's a par 5 they can't reach. If there's rough that they can't knock it on the green from. If there's a hole location that requires a precise shot otherwise a three-putt is a real possibility. If a butterfly farts in their downswing. If their courtesy van to the course is two minutes late. There is no end to the number of things that can raise a player's ire."

 

That's not even close to factual unless you have some sort of locker room access we don't know about. They do not have higher bitching rate than any other sector of society.

 

I can't ever recall a player complaining about not being able to reach a par 5.

 

Augusta requires exact iron play or a three putt is in your future.

 

Everyone in the world has complained at one time or another about rough but I've heard several players just the week mention that the rough is up but it should be because it's a US Open. That doesn't sound like a whiner attitude.

 

The butterfly fart comment isn't really worth replying to ( you actually suggest that's a fact?)since it's obvious if you believe that then you've never been to tournament or you watch coverage with your volume down.

 

The next time you make ridiculous blanket statements at least attempt to have some real world facts.

 

Frankly you sound like one of those people who think they have juiced up equipment and that if you had that and unlimited time you would be right there with them on tour since you seem to believe all of the other myths out there.

[davep043]

> @Roadking2003 said:

> > @davep043 said:>

> > I agree completely, for the John Deere. at the US Open, it's supposed to be more demanding.

>

> So, for the US Open throw out the USGA pin placement guidelines?

 

Let's look back at what @bladehunter said, that you shouldn't have to lag a downhill 10-footer, after saying in a previous post said that Phil COULD have limped it down and close. So if he CAN make it stop close, and hit it a bit too hard, I have no problem with a significant penalty. After all, he hit the ball into a difficult position, above the hole in a very difficult green, he didn't EARN an easy putt. Under more benign conditions, like an every-week Tour stop, he COULD have been a bit too aggressive and not had as poor a result. US Opens demand better play, as they should.

[North Texas]

> @davep043 said:

> > @Roadking2003 said:

> > > @davep043 said:>

> > > I agree completely, for the John Deere. at the US Open, it's supposed to be more demanding.

> >

> > So, for the US Open throw out the USGA pin placement guidelines?

>

> Let's look back at what @bladehunter said, that you shouldn't have to lag a downhill 10-footer, after saying in a previous post said that Phil COULD have limped it down and close. So if he CAN make it stop close, and hit it a bit too hard, I have no problem with a significant penalty. After all, he hit the ball into a difficult position, above the hole in a very difficult green, he didn't EARN an easy putt. Under more benign conditions, like an every-week Tour stop, he COULD have been a bit too aggressive and not had as poor a result. US Opens demand better play, as they should.

 

And we also need to stop pretending that it was only a 10 foot putt. More like 20 feet that he hit way too hard, as any reasonable person can see.