Increasing LPGA popularity and how to solve problems if any

[Titleist_PT23]

The decline seems to be from the perspective of a certain US demographic.

 

The number of US tournaments played now vs then and the disappearance of US sponsors (although some of these are pretty global corporations) do show a decline. And maybe without a change in players or whatever the interest from THIS GROUP won't come back (which is neither right nor wrong).

 

But just look at the money the ladies are playing for. Hard to say the tour is having difficulty attracting viewers and sponsors in general.

[MelloYello]

> @ClintDagger said:

> > @MelloYello said:

>

> > To me, I think the success of LPGA golf in terms of its global popularity is probably insulting to a lot of American viewers who thought it would die without them.

>

> Nah, I think that’s really ridiculous. The product would obviously have higher viewership if a Wie was dominant or even if an Annika was on top. But I don’t think the viewers that left have any malice against the product. It’s just not for them and there’s a ton of options out there. I like the LPGA as much as I ever have. But I also understand why the product as it is now doesn’t have as broad of an appeal as perhaps it once did for US viewers. But I also know it was never a juggernaut to begin with. It’s doing fine as it is now but I would imagine TPTB are hoping for better than fine and the more popular the product is the better it is for the players’ bank accounts.

 

I agree that a few more people might tune in to see Michelle Wie.

 

But what if she were playing well like say, Lexi Thompson? You suggest she'd be massively popular. That begs an obvious question, haha.

 

Why isn't Lexi Thompson massively popular?

 

I don't think that Michelle Wie has some "it" quality that Lexi Thompson doesn't have. If they were hitting the scene today they'd have equal opportunity.

 

Both players started early. Both hit the stage early. They both have endorsements with major OEMs (Nike & Puma). Both got coverage in magazines and ads.

 

Lexi has a few advantages as well. She comes from a golfing family. She notched a win out on tour early in record-setting fashion! She captured a major.

 

They're both tall, athletic figures who can hit the ball a long way. Again, no difference. In fact, I would think a healthy-looking blonde with a great tan would have the advantage with traditional American audiences.

 

So to me it sure looks like Lexi Thompson has every conceivable trait you'd like to see and yet we still look back to Michelle Wie as though she was unique.

 

Why?

 

I've seen some of the hype try and get going around Lexi Thompson, but the fact she isn't promoted by the entirity of golf to the same degree Michelle Wie was shows that something is changing.

 

IMHO the change is simply the fact that you can't hype one player when there are 30 names who look to contend and potentially win big tournaments. The landscape has changed and the LPGA is deeper (at the top) now than ever before. The same thing took place on the PGA Tour and again, it totally changed the rules. Instead of a concentration in popularity around one player (i.e. TW) you now have to spread out your coverage to highlight 10 to 20 different big name guys. Yeah, you can hype up Rory by covering him a bit more but you also have to cover the other elite players who are popular as well.

 

So you just can't spend all your time on one guy like we used to see with say, TW. When time is the resource that you have and you are forced to spread it around the sport "suffers." People start complaining that nobody is dominating so you remind them that domination is only possible when someone has the leverage. With today's depth we simply aren't going to witness that. It's not possible.

 

So your point might be true with regard to Michelle Wie herself because people still recognize her name but the fact Lexi Thompson isn't viewed the same shows how it's a moot point moving forward. You can't create that sort of hype now.

 

As I pointed out, we're simply in a new era. There is no going back. There is no "fixing" this because things have not broken, they've evolved.

 

The changing rules are a reflection of the fact that the competition is so deep at the top.

 

The truth is that every sport that becomes popular and creates high-level competition within it's ranks suffers from this "problem."

 

The resolution is that your audience comes to accept it. At first they moan and groan and complain about a lack of "star power" or something like that. But slowing they start tuning in for the event(s) rather than for the individual players.

 

The complaints we hear about the LPGA now are the complaints we heard about the PGA Tour when TW gave way to Rory, Rickie, YJS, JT and a slew of other up-and-coming players.

 

Other sports have already gone through this.

 

Look at football. Granted it's a team-game and thus it didn't get hit as hard by this but there are a multitude of iconic stars today, and yet they come and go and get replaced all the time. Still the popularity of the sport remains largely indifferent to this revolving door of personnel. Surprisingly, golf isn't that different.

 

It used to be when you could market one person over all the others but now you can't get away with that anymore.

 

 

[Argonne69]

> @agolf1 said:

> The decline seems to be from the perspective of a certain US demographic.

>

> The number of US tournaments played now vs then and the disappearance of US sponsors (although some of these are pretty global corporations) do show a decline. And maybe without a change in players or whatever the interest from THIS GROUP won't come back (which is neither right nor wrong).

>

> But just look at the money the ladies are playing for. Hard to say the tour is having difficulty attracting viewers and sponsors in general.

 

Was anybody really a fan because State Farm sponsored a tournament in Illinois? Did anyone notice? Did those fans decide to call it quits when Samsung became a sponsor? I really doubt it.

 

I'm going to have to try to dig up the TV schedules from prior decades. I wasn't a fan back then, but I don't recall seeing much women's golf on TV. I have to believe that there are way more hours of televised golf today than 20 years ago, including live coverage of the final rounds.

 

[MelloYello]

> @Argonne69 said:

> Was anybody really a fan because State Farm sponsored a tournament in Illinois?

 

Nicely phrased!

 

The absurdity of certain criticisms becomes apparent when it pushes us to ask those sorts of questions. It's tempting to give weight to things that are really peripheral to the casual viewers we're talking about. I think the truth is that to a large degree you can only market a sport to a certain extent. The popularity and the evolution of a game is really mostly out of our control.

 

America loves football not because it's marketed to them but because they came to love it through a natural process. The game was fine-tuned as the years went by but that's not important. The manner in which it's presented is more indicative of the markets and what can be sold to them (i.e. High-flying offenses & Bud Light).

 

But let's not pretend that the NFL had a product which existed in a vacuum and that they saw fit to market Aaron Rodgers to Bud Light fans. That's totally backwards.

 

The truth is that there's no way to bias the LPGA towards American audiences or to overcome American's general lack of interest in women's golf. An audience will arise for the product that exists, the LPGA will respond to meet that market (which they have done) and there will be an iterative process whereby the game is optimized in its presentation (which is remarkably solid for a tour that is supposedly floundering according to many here).

 

 

 

 

[Titleist_PT23]

> @Argonne69 said:

> > @agolf1 said:

> > The decline seems to be from the perspective of a certain US demographic.

> >

> > The number of US tournaments played now vs then and the disappearance of US sponsors (although some of these are pretty global corporations) do show a decline. And maybe without a change in players or whatever the interest from THIS GROUP won't come back (which is neither right nor wrong).

> >

> > But just look at the money the ladies are playing for. Hard to say the tour is having difficulty attracting viewers and sponsors in general.

>

> Was anybody really a fan because State Farm sponsored a tournament in Illinois? Did anyone notice? Did those fans decide to call it quits when Samsung became a sponsor? I really doubt it.

>

> I'm going to have to try to dig up the TV schedules from prior decades. I wasn't a fan back then, but I don't recall seeing much women's golf on TV. I have to believe that there are way more hours of televised golf today than 20 years ago, including live coverage of the final rounds.

>

The TV coverage is a tough thing to answer. There's more coverage of everything today vs 20 years ago.

 

I took the number of tournaments on US soil now vs then as a decline in interest from the U.S. market/fans. Conceptually, I can kind of understand hoe this could be the case because the nationality of the stars on the tour have changed.

 

But maybe it was just that the tour had a better bid from someone else (Asia) so that's why the location of the tournaments shifted.

[GoGoErky]

Whoever finds a way to increase the popularity of women’s sports to the American audience will be able to retire soon after. Unfortunately the internet isn’t there for the lpga, wnba, women’s soccer leagues, to an extent women’s tennis.

[Argonne69]

Again, the tour has been dominated by foreign players for 20 years. The drop off in U.S. sponsorship didn't happen until 10 years ago. Who were the big American superstars that where pulling in the fans through the gates by the thousands?

 

[MelloYello]

I don't see how the LPGA can do much about the roster of players. Golf is a meritocracy.

 

The problem isn't that America is falling behind. They are still way ahead of virtually every other country in terms of representation on the LPGA.

 

The fact is simply that South Korea made women's golf a priority 100x more than any other country it's size has.

 

I really don't see what can be done about that. If 5 of the world's top-10 players are from "little old South Korea" (as Dabo Swinney would surely say it!), then that's just how it is.

 

If you remove South Korea you will find that (1) the LPGA is over-run with Americans and (2) the world's elite players are a mix of unique stories from around the globe all of whom are exceptional people that dedicated their lives to the game: Brooke, Lydia, Minjee, Ariya, Lexi, etc.

 

Complaining about the lack of Americans is tiresome TBH. It's a lazy way of saying you don't like what South Korea is doing and in a roundabout way it's a criticism of "boring" Americans (i.e. Lang, Ernst, Lewis, etc.).

 

But I'll remind you that you can't control South Korea and you can't complain when your country floods the top-50 with players that you find boring.

 

I'm not criticizing anyone in particular. But these are the facts. The LPGA can't do anything but the air game as it is. American girls have to respond with the quality of golf that is required to regain superiority.

 

In a world where a singular figure like Lexi Thompson is never going to get the promotional assistance that Michelle Wie did, you have to produce 10 Lexi Thompsons.

 

South Korea figured out a way to take over the top-20 and it's incredible. Granted those players are not as individually compelling as Lexi but Lexi herself wouldn't be that compelling if there were 10 of her and the coverage had to be divided equally.

 

I doubt the Koreans complained. They simple went out and earned it. I would hope that Korea's work ethic and determination isn't lost on the next generation of young American players but in any case, all we can do is wait on them and support them when they have their moment to prove that they belong.

 

I do not see the U.S. being able to replicate what South Korea has done though, particularly when "fans" demand so much and support the LPGA so little. From all appearances, women in the US are not that interested in golf in general and those that are do not view "elite" golf in the way the Koreans do. I see a lot of Twitter golf babes (a somewhat disturbing trend) and a few players with good college experience but I don't know how many American women beyond Lexi really aim to be the world's best _player_.

 

 

 

[Titleist_PT23]

Ok. I'm not sure on the US stars. The mid-90s to mid-2000s were a lot of Annika, Karrie Webb, and Se Ri Pak.

 

Since then, a lot more of the revolving door, many of which are unknown or foreign to the casual US fan.

 

It does seem like there are more years with the Americans winning less than 1/4 of the tournaments since 2010. Not sure who was winning them before then for USA.

 

Also, the last American to be #1 was Stacy Lewis, 5 years ago. But it would seem like Lexi has been close enough at points to gather a following (or at least be more popular than Lewis).

 

[1997: 24/39, 1998: 17/36, 2000: 13/36, 2001: 10/38, 2002: 6/32, 2003: 8/31, 2004: 11/32, 2005: 10/34, 2006: 7/33, 2007: 12/34, 2008: 10/35, 2009: 6/29, 2010: 5/24, 2011: 4/23, 2012: 8/27, 2013: 7/27, 2014: 13/33, 2015: 8/32, 2016: 3/34, 2017: 8/34, 2018: 9/32]

[GoGoErky]

> @MelloYello said:

> I don't see how the LPGA can do much about the roster of players. Golf is a meritocracy.

>

> The problem isn't that America is falling behind. They are still way ahead of virtually every other country in terms of representation on the LPGA.

>

> The fact is simply that South Korea made women's golf a priority 100x more than any other country it's size has.

>

> I really don't see what can be done about that. If 5 of the world's top-10 players are from "little old South Korea" (as Dabo Swinney would surely say it!), then that's just how it is.

>

> If you remove South Korea you will find that (1) the LPGA is over-run with Americans and (2) the world's elite players are a mix of unique stories from around the globe all of whom are exceptional people that dedicated their lives to the game: Brooke, Lydia, Minjee, Ariya, Lexi, etc.

>

> Complaining about the lack of Americans is tiresome TBH. It's a lazy way of saying you don't like what South Korea is doing and in a roundabout way it's a criticism of "boring" Americans (i.e. Lang, Ernst, Lewis, etc.).

>

> But I'll remind you that you can't control South Korea and you can't complain when your country floods the top-50 with players that you find boring.

>

> I'm not criticizing anyone in particular. But these are the facts. The LPGA can't do anything but the air game as it is. American girls have to respond with the quality of golf that is required to regain superiority.

>

> In a world where a singular figure like Lexi Thompson is never going to get the promotional assistance that Michelle Wie did, you have to produce 10 Lexi Thompsons.

>

> South Korea figured out a way to take over the top-20 and it's incredible. Granted those players are not as individually compelling as Lexi but Lexi herself wouldn't be that compelling if there were 10 of her and the coverage had to be divided equally.

>

> I doubt the Koreans complained. They simple went out and earned it. I would hope that isn't lost on the next generation of young American players but in either case, all we can do is wait on them and support them when they have their moment to prove that they belong.

>

> Anyhow, I for one do not see the U.S. being able to replicate what South Korea has done, particularly when "fans" demand so much and support the LPGA so little. From all appearances, women in the US are not that interested in golf in general and those that are do not view "elite" golf in the way the Koreans do. I see a lot of Twitter golf babes and a few players with good college experience but I don't know how many American women beyond Lexi really aim to be the world's best.

>

> That's a deep question. Are we complacent? Is golf declining in popularity? Is our culture making it impossible to win this fight? Can we ever expect American women to really care enough to take the momentum back from South Korea? To me, this whole argument speaks to those larger questions which don't have answers at this time.

>

>

 

Women’s sports aren’t watched by its women and men aren’t interested in whatching most women’s sports. PGA tour has characters, stories, many famed courses and a legacy of stars. They also have guys that do things most amateurs can’t. The casual fan wants to see dominance and the long ball. While watching fundamental basketball can be enlightening to see the game played below the rim fans want powerful dunks, excitement up and down the floor so the nba gets the audience while the WNBA struggles. Soccer is fun to watch for those into the sport but to the casual fan 0-0 or 1-0 games with nothing more than watching a ball get kicked around doesn’t bring in the casual fan, thus both women’s and men’s soccer lags behind and the women even more so.

 

LPGA offers golfers the chance to someone hit the ball similar distances as themselves but it lacks dominance and the stories. When the avid golf fan isn’t turning in to watch its hard to get the avg fan to as well. The media and the tour need to do a better job at promoting their product to draw in the average golf fan.

[MelloYello]

> @GoGoErky said:

> > @MelloYello said:

> > I don't see how the LPGA can do much about the roster of players. Golf is a meritocracy.

> >

> > The problem isn't that America is falling behind. They are still way ahead of virtually every other country in terms of representation on the LPGA.

> >

> > The fact is simply that South Korea made women's golf a priority 100x more than any other country it's size has.

> >

> > I really don't see what can be done about that. If 5 of the world's top-10 players are from "little old South Korea" (as Dabo Swinney would surely say it!), then that's just how it is.

> >

> > If you remove South Korea you will find that (1) the LPGA is over-run with Americans and (2) the world's elite players are a mix of unique stories from around the globe all of whom are exceptional people that dedicated their lives to the game: Brooke, Lydia, Minjee, Ariya, Lexi, etc.

> >

> > Complaining about the lack of Americans is tiresome TBH. It's a lazy way of saying you don't like what South Korea is doing and in a roundabout way it's a criticism of "boring" Americans (i.e. Lang, Ernst, Lewis, etc.).

> >

> > But I'll remind you that you can't control South Korea and you can't complain when your country floods the top-50 with players that you find boring.

> >

> > I'm not criticizing anyone in particular. But these are the facts. The LPGA can't do anything but the air game as it is. American girls have to respond with the quality of golf that is required to regain superiority.

> >

> > In a world where a singular figure like Lexi Thompson is never going to get the promotional assistance that Michelle Wie did, you have to produce 10 Lexi Thompsons.

> >

> > South Korea figured out a way to take over the top-20 and it's incredible. Granted those players are not as individually compelling as Lexi but Lexi herself wouldn't be that compelling if there were 10 of her and the coverage had to be divided equally.

> >

> > I doubt the Koreans complained. They simple went out and earned it. I would hope that isn't lost on the next generation of young American players but in either case, all we can do is wait on them and support them when they have their moment to prove that they belong.

> >

> > Anyhow, I for one do not see the U.S. being able to replicate what South Korea has done, particularly when "fans" demand so much and support the LPGA so little. From all appearances, women in the US are not that interested in golf in general and those that are do not view "elite" golf in the way the Koreans do. I see a lot of Twitter golf babes and a few players with good college experience but I don't know how many American women beyond Lexi really aim to be the world's best.

> >

> > That's a deep question. Are we complacent? Is golf declining in popularity? Is our culture making it impossible to win this fight? Can we ever expect American women to really care enough to take the momentum back from South Korea? To me, this whole argument speaks to those larger questions which don't have answers at this time.

> >

> >

>

> Women’s sports aren’t watched by its women and men aren’t interested in whatching most women’s sports. PGA tour has characters, stories, many famed courses and a legacy of stars. They also have guys that do things most amateurs can’t. The casual fan wants to see dominance and the long ball. While watching fundamental basketball can be enlightening to see the game played below the rim fans want powerful dunks, excitement up and down the floor so the nba gets the audience while the WNBA struggles. Soccer is fun to watch for those into the sport but to the casual fan 0-0 or 1-0 games with nothing more than watching a ball get kicked around doesn’t bring in the casual fan, thus both women’s and men’s soccer lags behind and the women even more so.

>

> LPGA offers golfers the chance to someone hit the ball similar distances as themselves but it lacks dominance and the stories. When the avid golf fan isn’t turning in to watch its hard to get the avg fan to as well. The media and the tour need to do a better job at promoting their product to draw in the average golf fan.

 

Well, if that's the case then why not simply let the minority who enjoy it do so in peace? We could offer a similar complaint against a million niche sports yet for someone reason people come here acting as though they expect the LPGA to be a massive hit. It's annoying for sure.

 

I hate to take Shooter McGavin's side but the people you're bringing up aren't die-hard fans. Tiger Woods made the game popular, not the PGA Tour.

 

But the fans we see now who yell at every shot are buffoons. They're peripheral revenue streams that bring in alcohol sales and TV ad revenue.

 

I'm not sure blowing the doors off the whole thing when you have TW come along is really all that genius. Making TV companies billions and turning potentially great players into complacent millionaires...is that really a win for the sport anyway?

 

Anyhow, if folks want to knock women's sport, maybe do it outside the 2 or 3 places where people come together to enjoy it.

[MelloYello]

> @agolf1 said:

> Ok. I'm not sure on the US stars. The mid-90s to mid-2000s were a lot of Annika, Karrie Webb, and Se Ri Pak.

>

> Since then, a lot more of the revolving door, many of which are unknown or foreign to the casual US fan.

>

> It does seem like there are more years with the Americans winning less than 1/4 of the tournaments since 2010. Not sure who was winning them before then for USA.

>

> Also, the last American to be #1 was Stacy Lewis, 5 years ago. But it would seem like Lexi has been close enough at points to gather a following (or at least be more popular than Lewis).

>

> [1997: 24/39, 1998: 17/36, 2000: 13/36, 2001: 10/38, 2002: 6/32, 2003: 8/31, 2004: 11/32, 2005: 10/34, 2006: 7/33, 2007: 12/34, 2008: 10/35, 2009: 6/29, 2010: 5/24, 2011: 4/23, 2012: 8/27, 2013: 7/27, 2014: 13/33, 2015: 8/32, 2016: 3/34, 2017: 8/34, 2018: 9/32]

 

Again, I think it's an issue with how many elite players there are.

 

I could be wrong but I bet fewer people collected the trophies 20 years ago compared with today. Am I wrong?

[GoGoErky]

> @MelloYello said:

> > @GoGoErky said:

> > > @MelloYello said:

> > > I don't see how the LPGA can do much about the roster of players. Golf is a meritocracy.

> > >

> > > The problem isn't that America is falling behind. They are still way ahead of virtually every other country in terms of representation on the LPGA.

> > >

> > > The fact is simply that South Korea made women's golf a priority 100x more than any other country it's size has.

> > >

> > > I really don't see what can be done about that. If 5 of the world's top-10 players are from "little old South Korea" (as Dabo Swinney would surely say it!), then that's just how it is.

> > >

> > > If you remove South Korea you will find that (1) the LPGA is over-run with Americans and (2) the world's elite players are a mix of unique stories from around the globe all of whom are exceptional people that dedicated their lives to the game: Brooke, Lydia, Minjee, Ariya, Lexi, etc.

> > >

> > > Complaining about the lack of Americans is tiresome TBH. It's a lazy way of saying you don't like what South Korea is doing and in a roundabout way it's a criticism of "boring" Americans (i.e. Lang, Ernst, Lewis, etc.).

> > >

> > > But I'll remind you that you can't control South Korea and you can't complain when your country floods the top-50 with players that you find boring.

> > >

> > > I'm not criticizing anyone in particular. But these are the facts. The LPGA can't do anything but the air game as it is. American girls have to respond with the quality of golf that is required to regain superiority.

> > >

> > > In a world where a singular figure like Lexi Thompson is never going to get the promotional assistance that Michelle Wie did, you have to produce 10 Lexi Thompsons.

> > >

> > > South Korea figured out a way to take over the top-20 and it's incredible. Granted those players are not as individually compelling as Lexi but Lexi herself wouldn't be that compelling if there were 10 of her and the coverage had to be divided equally.

> > >

> > > I doubt the Koreans complained. They simple went out and earned it. I would hope that isn't lost on the next generation of young American players but in either case, all we can do is wait on them and support them when they have their moment to prove that they belong.

> > >

> > > Anyhow, I for one do not see the U.S. being able to replicate what South Korea has done, particularly when "fans" demand so much and support the LPGA so little. From all appearances, women in the US are not that interested in golf in general and those that are do not view "elite" golf in the way the Koreans do. I see a lot of Twitter golf babes and a few players with good college experience but I don't know how many American women beyond Lexi really aim to be the world's best.

> > >

> > > That's a deep question. Are we complacent? Is golf declining in popularity? Is our culture making it impossible to win this fight? Can we ever expect American women to really care enough to take the momentum back from South Korea? To me, this whole argument speaks to those larger questions which don't have answers at this time.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Women’s sports aren’t watched by its women and men aren’t interested in whatching most women’s sports. PGA tour has characters, stories, many famed courses and a legacy of stars. They also have guys that do things most amateurs can’t. The casual fan wants to see dominance and the long ball. While watching fundamental basketball can be enlightening to see the game played below the rim fans want powerful dunks, excitement up and down the floor so the nba gets the audience while the WNBA struggles. Soccer is fun to watch for those into the sport but to the casual fan 0-0 or 1-0 games with nothing more than watching a ball get kicked around doesn’t bring in the casual fan, thus both women’s and men’s soccer lags behind and the women even more so.

> >

> > LPGA offers golfers the chance to someone hit the ball similar distances as themselves but it lacks dominance and the stories. When the avid golf fan isn’t turning in to watch its hard to get the avg fan to as well. The media and the tour need to do a better job at promoting their product to draw in the average golf fan.

>

> Well, if that's the case then why not simply let the minority who enjoy it do so in peace? We could offer a similar complaint against a million niche sports yet for someone reason people come here acting as though they expect the LPGA to be a massive hit. It's annoying for sure.

>

> I hate to take Shooter McGavin's side but the people you're bringing up aren't die-hard fans. Tiger Woods made the game popular, not the PGA Tour.

>

> But the fans we see now who yell at every shot are buffoons. They're peripheral revenue streams that bring in alcohol sales and TV ad revenue.

>

> I'm not sure blowing the doors off the whole thing when you have TW come along is really all that genius. Making TV companies billions and turning potentially great players into complacent millionaires...is that really a win for the sport anyway?

>

> Anyhow, if folks want to knock women's sport, maybe do it outside the 2 or 3 places where people come together to enjoy it.

 

It’s a golf forum so wanting to improve a product within the genre of the forum makes sense as a topic. Having a discussion in places where golf fans aren’t engaging would be kind if a moot point.

 

There’s nothing wrong with criticizing a golf product of any kind and having a debate on it is one of the purposes of a forum. Imo criticizing a product show some passion for it and wanting to see it improve.

 

Those that don’t want to engage or rad the criticism are just as welcome to ignore the thread as saying the discussion should be taken somewhere else.

[Rory4Pres]

My 2 cents on increasing viewership...

Typically, cbs broadcasts pga tour events on the weekends from 2-5 or 2-6pm. I'd say a great way to increase viewership of LPGA is to broadcast their events from 11am-2pm. I know this isn't ideal but on the other hand, I have to believe most pga golf viewers will likely watch the lpga if it's on beforehand. This isn't the end game for them but rather a way to gain more viewership.

 

 

[Argonne69]

American winners:

 

1997: McGann (2), Robbins (2), Myers (2), Andrews, King, Lopez, Green (2), Jones, Hurst, Ammaccapane, Hammel, Redman, Walker (2), Richard, Figg-Currier, Johnson, Ward, Inkster. No real dominant player, and only a few familiar names.

 

1998: Robbins (2), Eggeling, Ward, Hurst, Andrews, Ammaccapane (2), Mucha, Green, Jones, Fruhwirth, Burton, Mallon, Steinhauer, Sinn, Inkster. Again, no dominant player, and only a few familiar names.

 

1999: Robbins, Mallon (2), Inkster (5), Pepper (2), Kuehne, Steinhauer (2), Gallagher-Smith, Jones. Julie begins to stand out from the crowd, along with Dottie and Meg.

 

2000: Scranton, King (2), Inkster (3), Hurst, Mallon (2), Delasin, Kean, Redman, Pepper.

 

2001: Jones, Inkster, King, Klein, Delasin (2), Ward, Daly-Donofrio, Golden. Karrie (3), Annika (8), and Se Ri (5) begin to dominate.

 

2002: Diaz (2), Kerr, Inkster (2), Mallon. Again, Annika (11), Karrie (2), and Se Ri (5) dominate.

 

2003: Jones, Inkster (2), Stanford, Lunke, Daniel, Delasin, Mallon. Annika (6), Se Ri (3) and Candie King (3) dominate.

 

2004: Kerr (3), Steinhauer, Saiki, Mallon (3), Dunn, C. Kim, Daly-Donofrio. Critsie and Meg are strong, but Annika (8) has another big year, and Lorena wins her first and 2nd events.

 

2005: Ward, Prammanasudh, Kerr (2), Creamer (2), Bowie, Hurst, Kim. Annika (10) dominates.

 

2006: Inkster, Kerr (3), Lincicome, Steinhauer, Hurst. Cristie emerges as the top American. Annika only manages 3 wins and a Swedish team win. Lorena (6) steps out. Karrie (5) is strong.

 

2007: Creamer (2), Prammanasudh, Francella, Pressel, Lincicome, Castrale, Kerr, Gulbis, Steinhauer, Lewis. Lorena (8) dominates. Suzann (5) also stands out.

 

2008: Creamer (4), Lindley, Kerr, Stanford (2), Pressel, Kung. Paula has a great year, but Lorena (7) is still the star of the show. Jiyai (3) emerges.

 

2009: Stanford, Hurst, Lincicome, Kerr, Wie. Lorena (3) begins to slow down. Jiyai (3) plays well. Na Yeon (2) and Yani emerge.

 

2010: Francella, Kerr (2), Creamer, Wie. Ai (5) steps out.

 

2011: Lewis, Lincicome (2), Thompson. Yani dominates (7).

 

[Argonne69]

Looking at the list of American winners vs. the World, I stand by my statement that the U.S. has not had a superstar in over 20 years. A few players, Julie, Cristie, and Paula, had strong years, but they were definitely outgunned by Annika, Karrie, Lorena, Se Ri, Ai, and Yani.

 

Some blame the Koreans for the current "situation". It sure appears to me that the "problem" existed long before the post-Se Ri players came along.

 

[Argonne69]

> @Rory4Pres said:

> My 2 cents on increasing viewership...

> Typically, cbs broadcasts pga tour events on the weekends from 2-5 or 2-6pm. I'd say a great way to increase viewership of LPGA is to broadcast their events from 11am-2pm. I know this isn't ideal but on the other hand, I have to believe most pga golf viewers will likely watch the lpga if it's on beforehand. This isn't the end game for them but rather a way to gain more viewership.

>

>

 

How do you broadcast a tournament from 11 am to 2 pm with 60 to 70 players in the field on the weekends? You send the leaders off first at 9 am? If they're playing in California, they tee off at 6 am?

 

Do people not have DVRs?

[Argonne69]

> @MelloYello said:

> > @agolf1 said:

> > Ok. I'm not sure on the US stars. The mid-90s to mid-2000s were a lot of Annika, Karrie Webb, and Se Ri Pak.

> >

> > Since then, a lot more of the revolving door, many of which are unknown or foreign to the casual US fan.

> >

> > It does seem like there are more years with the Americans winning less than 1/4 of the tournaments since 2010. Not sure who was winning them before then for USA.

> >

> > Also, the last American to be #1 was Stacy Lewis, 5 years ago. But it would seem like Lexi has been close enough at points to gather a following (or at least be more popular than Lewis).

> >

> > [1997: 24/39, 1998: 17/36, 2000: 13/36, 2001: 10/38, 2002: 6/32, 2003: 8/31, 2004: 11/32, 2005: 10/34, 2006: 7/33, 2007: 12/34, 2008: 10/35, 2009: 6/29, 2010: 5/24, 2011: 4/23, 2012: 8/27, 2013: 7/27, 2014: 13/33, 2015: 8/32, 2016: 3/34, 2017: 8/34, 2018: 9/32]

>

> Again, I think it's an issue with how many elite players there are.

>

> I could be wrong but I bet fewer people collected the trophies 20 years ago compared with today. Am I wrong?

 

I think one can safely say that. We haven't seen a player win more than five times since Yani in 2011. Lydia and Inbee both won five times in 2015. Annika, Karrie, Se Ri, and Lorena were hogging all the trophies for over a decade.

[WestTex]

> @Argonne69 said:

> > @agolf1 said:

> > The decline seems to be from the perspective of a certain US demographic.

> >

> > The number of US tournaments played now vs then and the disappearance of US sponsors (although some of these are pretty global corporations) do show a decline. And maybe without a change in players or whatever the interest from THIS GROUP won't come back (which is neither right nor wrong).

> >

> > But just look at the money the ladies are playing for. Hard to say the tour is having difficulty attracting viewers and sponsors in general.

>

> **Was anybody really a fan because State Farm sponsored a tournament in Illinois**? Did anyone notice? Did those fans decide to call it quits when Samsung became a sponsor? I really doubt it.

>

> I'm going to have to try to dig up the TV schedules from prior decades. I wasn't a fan back then, but I don't recall seeing much women's golf on TV. I have to believe that there are way more hours of televised golf today than 20 years ago, including live coverage of the final rounds.

>

 

I tune in to the Mediheal specifically to see the creepy ads and trophy! Sorry, I have nothing of value to contribute here.

[MelloYello]

> @Argonne69 said:

> Looking at the list of American winners vs. the World, I stand by my statement that the U.S. has not had a superstar in over 20 years. A few players, Julie, Cristie, and Paula, had strong years, but they were definitely outgunned by Annika, Karrie, Lorena, Se Ri, Ai, and Yani.

>

> Some blame the Koreans for the current "situation". It sure appears to me that the "problem" existed long before the post-Se Ri players came along.

>

 

Thanks for digging all that up!

 

I think the only difference today with the Koreans is that there are _so many_.

 

Sure, Sweden gave us Annika and Australia gave us Karrie Webb and Mexico gave us Lorena Ochoa. There's been a long-running international flavor to women's golf but never has one country stepped up to grab hold of the rankings in the way that South Korea has. That is unprecedented outside of the US, correct?

 

But to your point, I think the international nature of the game hit the LPGA before it did the PGA. We might ask why the PGA isn't facing the same "problem."

 

Is golf just a manly sport? Why would it be viewed that? Do American women just not like golf for some reason? Are other sports more appealing? Is there more money in other sports?

 

That said, there are still loads of Americans on the LPGA. I don't think there's really a problem of quantity here. Nobody, including the Americans, ranks as highly as the South Koreans and again, what can anyone do about that?

[Titleist_PT23]

Annika and Webb starting winning big in the mid-90s. Why not list them then? It is true that the Americans haven't had the top player except for short periods of time. But to me, they seem to be winning slightly less over time.

 

I don't know if that's the issue. Or, people were attracted to the historical run of Annika and/or some rivalry of her with other all-time greats up until the mid-2000s or so. And then since it's been the revolving door, which is harder to write stories about that will attract the marginal viewer.

 

As I've said, I think the tour is doing fine as a whole. However, to me, it's lost some relevance, either absolute or at best relatively, from certain parts of the US demographic. That seems obvious just reading the comments of some people that aren't fans of the tour (or their wife isn't).

[Argonne69]

> @WestTex said:

> > @Argonne69 said:

> > > @agolf1 said:

> > > The decline seems to be from the perspective of a certain US demographic.

> > >

> > > The number of US tournaments played now vs then and the disappearance of US sponsors (although some of these are pretty global corporations) do show a decline. And maybe without a change in players or whatever the interest from THIS GROUP won't come back (which is neither right nor wrong).

> > >

> > > But just look at the money the ladies are playing for. Hard to say the tour is having difficulty attracting viewers and sponsors in general.

> >

> > **Was anybody really a fan because State Farm sponsored a tournament in Illinois**? Did anyone notice? Did those fans decide to call it quits when Samsung became a sponsor? I really doubt it.

> >

> > I'm going to have to try to dig up the TV schedules from prior decades. I wasn't a fan back then, but I don't recall seeing much women's golf on TV. I have to believe that there are way more hours of televised golf today than 20 years ago, including live coverage of the final rounds.

> >

>

> I tune in to the Mediheal specifically to see the creepy ads and trophy! Sorry, I have nothing of value to contribute here.

 

Lol.

 


 

[MelloYello]

Here's how the top 100 players in the women's game breaks down by nationality:

 

South Korea - 37

United States - 24

Japan - 13

Europe - 12

Thailand - 4

Australia - 3

China - 2

 

As can be seen, the US would easily dominate the world's top-100 if not for the presence of South Korea. Consider too that the US is roughly 7 times as large in terms of it's population.

 

Japan is the only other country within shouting distance at 13. After that, the European countries all have to be lumped together as none have more than 4 in the top 100:

 

England - 4

Sweden - 3

Spain - 2

Germany - 1

France - 1

Netherlands - 1

 

So again, if you remove South Korea, the USA is absolutely dominating and would have 10 of the world's top 25. Without South Korea the top-25 would look like this:

 

1 - AUS - Minjee Lee

2 - **USA** - Lexi Thompson

3 - THA - Ariya Jutanugarn

4 - JPN - Nasa Hataoka

5 - CAN - Brooke Henderson

6 - **USA** - Nelly Korda

7 - ESP - Carlota Ciganda

8 - **USA** - Jessica Korda

9 - **USA** - Danielle Kang

10 - NZL - Lydia Ko

11 - ENG - Charley Hull

12 - CHN - Shenshen Feng

13 - ENG - Bronte Law

14 - THA - Moriya Jutanugarn

15 - ENG - Georgia Hall

16 - **USA** - Angel Yin

17 - JPN - Ai Suzuki

18 - **USA** - Lizette Salas

19 - ESP - Azahara Munoz

20 - **USA** - Marina Alex

21 - **USA** - Austin Ernst

22 - CHN - Yu Liu

23 - **USA** - Angela Stanford

24 - **USA** - Christie Kerr

25 - JPN - Mamiko Higa

 

 

So any complaint about Americans not dominating has to be seen as a complaint against the rise of South Korea. That's literally the only thing in the way of US domination here. And I'm sorry but I just don't really see what can be done about a single country earning their place within a meritocracy.

[Argonne69]

> @MelloYello said:

> > @Argonne69 said:

> > Looking at the list of American winners vs. the World, I stand by my statement that the U.S. has not had a superstar in over 20 years. A few players, Julie, Cristie, and Paula, had strong years, but they were definitely outgunned by Annika, Karrie, Lorena, Se Ri, Ai, and Yani.

> >

> > Some blame the Koreans for the current "situation". It sure appears to me that the "problem" existed long before the post-Se Ri players came along.

> >

>

> Thanks for digging all that up!

>

> I think the only difference today with the Koreans is that there are _so many_.

>

> Sure, Sweden gave us Annika and Australia gave us Karrie Webb and Mexico gave us Lorena Ochoa. There's been a long-running international flavor to women's golf but never has one country stepped up to grab hold of the rankings in the way that South Korea has. That is unprecedented outside of the US, correct?

>

> But to your point, I think the international nature of the game hit the LPGA before it did the PGA. We might ask why the PGA isn't facing the same "problem."

>

> Is golf just a manly sport? Why would it be viewed that? Do American women just not like golf for some reason? Are other sports more appealing? Is there more money in other sports?

>

> That said, there are still loads of Americans on the LPGA. I don't think there's really a problem of quantity here. Nobody, including the Americans, ranks as highly as the South Koreans and again, what can anyone do about that?

 

While Annika dominated, Sweden also had Maria Hjorth (5), Liselotte Neumann (13), Helen Alfreddon (7), and Sophia Gustafson (5). Australia had Rachel Hetherington (8).

 

You're right, though. The Koreans have more than just a handful of top players. On top of that, the KLPGA pipeline continues to produce proven winners year after year.

 

As I've stated before, I think the key is the lack of a KLPGA-like development program in the U.S. The universities aren't it. The mini tours and the Symetra tour is not it. Now, the chicken and egg question: Is the lack of a U.S. development program the result of too few young women wanting to play golf, or is the lack of women wanting to become serious golfers due to the fact that there isn't a clear path (w/ support)? We're all serious fans here. Anyone know a young women that plays golf? If so, have they expressed any interest in possibly turning pro? I'm guessing for most of us the answer is no. I've played over 500 rounds of golf in the past 5 years, and over 1000 in the last 14 years. I can count on two hands the number of women I've played rounds with. My nieces seemed more interested in soccer, if they were interested in sports at all.

[MelloYello]

> @WestTex said:

> > @Argonne69 said:

> > > @agolf1 said:

> > > The decline seems to be from the perspective of a certain US demographic.

> > >

> > > The number of US tournaments played now vs then and the disappearance of US sponsors (although some of these are pretty global corporations) do show a decline. And maybe without a change in players or whatever the interest from THIS GROUP won't come back (which is neither right nor wrong).

> > >

> > > But just look at the money the ladies are playing for. Hard to say the tour is having difficulty attracting viewers and sponsors in general.

> >

> > **Was anybody really a fan because State Farm sponsored a tournament in Illinois**? Did anyone notice? Did those fans decide to call it quits when Samsung became a sponsor? I really doubt it.

> >

> > I'm going to have to try to dig up the TV schedules from prior decades. I wasn't a fan back then, but I don't recall seeing much women's golf on TV. I have to believe that there are way more hours of televised golf today than 20 years ago, including live coverage of the final rounds.

> >

>

> I tune in to the Mediheal specifically to see the creepy ads and trophy! Sorry, I have nothing of value to contribute here.

 

Love me. Move Mediheal.

 

I just have to master that peace sign over the eye thing. That makes me look cool, right?

[Titleist_PT23]

> @MelloYello said:

> Here's how the top 100 players in the women's game breaks down by nationality:

>

> South Korea - 37

> United States - 24

> Japan - 13

> Europe - 12

> Thailand - 4

> Australia - 3

> China - 2

>

> As can be seen, the US would easily dominate the world's top-100 if not for the presence of South Korea. Consider too that the US is roughly 7 times as large in terms of it's population.

>

> Japan is the only other country within shouting distance at 13. After that, the European countries all have to be lumped together as none have more than 4 in the top 100:

>

> England - 4

> Sweden - 3

> Spain - 2

> Germany - 1

> France - 1

> Netherlands - 1

>

> So again, if you remove South Korea, the USA is absolutely dominating and would have 10 of the world's top 25. Without South Korea the top-25 would look like this:

>

> 1 - AUS - Minjee Lee

> 2 - **USA** - Lexi Thompson

> 3 - THA - Ariya Jutanugarn

> 4 - JPN - Nasa Hataoka

> 5 - CAN - Brooke Henderson

> 6 - **USA** - Nelly Korda

> 7 - ESP - Carlota Ciganda

> 8 - **USA** - Jessica Korda

> 9 - **USA** - Danielle Kang

> 10 - NZL - Lydia Ko

> 11 - ENG - Charley Hull

> 12 - CHN - Shenshen Feng

> 13 - ENG - Bronte Law

> 14 - THA - Moriya Jutanugarn

> 15 - ENG - Georgia Hall

> 16 - **USA** - Angel Yin

> 17 - JPN - Ai Suzuki

> 18 - **USA** - Lizette Salas

> 19 - ESP - Azahara Munoz

> 20 - **USA** - Marina Alex

> 21 - **USA** - Austin Ernst

> 22 - CHN - Yu Liu

> 23 - **USA** - Angela Stanford

> 24 - **USA** - Christie Kerr

> 25 - JPN - Mamiko Higa

>

>

> So any complaint about Americans not dominating has to be seen as a complaint against the rise of South Korea. That's literally the only thing in the way of US domination here. And I'm sorry but I just don't really see what can be done about a single country earning their place within a meritocracy.

If we are talking about the US fan losing interest (because they want to follow Americans - this seems to be the case for some but not all), I don't think the question is "does the US hypothetically dominate ex-Korea?". It's how is the USA doing over time?

 

Agree, never really had "the player" in the last 20 years. They seem to be winning less though. Although honestly it doesn't seem like a big enough drop off to have people stop tunning in.

[Argonne69]

Here's another angle on the (American) game. Is it possible that one or more of the current American players _could_ become a dominant player? Is dominance something a player simply has or doesn't have, or can it be influenced by coaching and practice? I have to believe that all the players are putting in long hours practicing. All of them have coaches, or teams. Are they practicing the wrong things? Are they putting in enough hours?

 

All the top players are excellent ballstrikers. What seems to be missing is generally the consistent hot putter.

 

Then there's the "killer instinct". We've seen a number of American players with the 54 hole lead, and it's usually frittered away. When Tiger was dominating he just didn't lose a lead on Sunday. Can the instinct be taught?

 

[MelloYello]

> @agolf1 said:

> > @MelloYello said:

> > Here's how the top 100 players in the women's game breaks down by nationality:

> >

> > South Korea - 37

> > United States - 24

> > Japan - 13

> > Europe - 12

> > Thailand - 4

> > Australia - 3

> > China - 2

> >

> > As can be seen, the US would easily dominate the world's top-100 if not for the presence of South Korea. Consider too that the US is roughly 7 times as large in terms of it's population.

> >

> > Japan is the only other country within shouting distance at 13. After that, the European countries all have to be lumped together as none have more than 4 in the top 100:

> >

> > England - 4

> > Sweden - 3

> > Spain - 2

> > Germany - 1

> > France - 1

> > Netherlands - 1

> >

> > So again, if you remove South Korea, the USA is absolutely dominating and would have 10 of the world's top 25. Without South Korea the top-25 would look like this:

> >

> > 1 - AUS - Minjee Lee

> > 2 - **USA** - Lexi Thompson

> > 3 - THA - Ariya Jutanugarn

> > 4 - JPN - Nasa Hataoka

> > 5 - CAN - Brooke Henderson

> > 6 - **USA** - Nelly Korda

> > 7 - ESP - Carlota Ciganda

> > 8 - **USA** - Jessica Korda

> > 9 - **USA** - Danielle Kang

> > 10 - NZL - Lydia Ko

> > 11 - ENG - Charley Hull

> > 12 - CHN - Shenshen Feng

> > 13 - ENG - Bronte Law

> > 14 - THA - Moriya Jutanugarn

> > 15 - ENG - Georgia Hall

> > 16 - **USA** - Angel Yin

> > 17 - JPN - Ai Suzuki

> > 18 - **USA** - Lizette Salas

> > 19 - ESP - Azahara Munoz

> > 20 - **USA** - Marina Alex

> > 21 - **USA** - Austin Ernst

> > 22 - CHN - Yu Liu

> > 23 - **USA** - Angela Stanford

> > 24 - **USA** - Christie Kerr

> > 25 - JPN - Mamiko Higa

> >

> >

> > So any complaint about Americans not dominating has to be seen as a complaint against the rise of South Korea. That's literally the only thing in the way of US domination here. And I'm sorry but I just don't really see what can be done about a single country earning their place within a meritocracy.

> If we are talking about the US fan losing interest (because they want to follow Americans - this seems to be the case for some but not all), I don't think the question is "does the US hypothetically dominate ex-Korea?". It's how is the USA doing over time?

>

> Agree, never really had "the player" in the last 20 years. They seem to be winning less though. Although honestly it doesn't seem like a big enough drop off to have people stop tunning in.

 

Well, the primary point was to show that the USA is, contrary to what some may think, dominating.

 

You just don't notice because they're 2nd place.

 

Women's golf can't be in that bad a shape if the U.S. is generating more than anyone else in the game and more or less doubling what the next best country is generating.

 

You can't say you don't have an alluring young talent at the top. You do. You have exactly that in Lexi Thompson. She's more marketable that Michelle Wie.

 

You can't say you don't have depth. You have 40% of the world's top golfers when we remove South Korea.

 

The problem isn't the US falling behind, it's South Korea doing something unprecedented, LOL!

 

If the U.S. is waiting for its opportunity, I hate to say it but guys, this is it. You're killing it. If 2nd place tastes that bad then you're right, a revolution is going to be needed because while you're crushing the competition, you're still miles behind 1st place.

 

But I don't know how you change that. You can't stop South Korea so you simply have to match their performance. Right now, @Argonne69 is right. We simply have too few women interested to put 4-5 Lexi Thompson clones in the world's top-10. What South Korea is doing is absolutely insane by any measure (especially given their population!).

 

We should not expect to generate 5 or 10 Lexi Thompsons. That would be ridiculous. And so yes, what South Korea is doing is rather ridiculous. Will it continue? That's a whole different debate. Right now, they're finding it quite easy to eat up the rankings so the fire they have burning is not short on fuel. There is plenty of opportunity on the KLPGA and the LPGA as well.

 

But if South Korea didn't exist, we wouldn't be talking about a problem. We'd be talking about how Americans dominate the top-100 and how the nationality of the world #1 is somewhat random and might be Sweden, Mexico, the US, Australia, Canada, New Zealand, etc.

 

And having the nationality of the world's top player be somewhat random doesn't seem to me to be weird. God only knows how someone becomes the best in the world at anything. It takes a unique person/story to do that.

[Rory4Pres]

> @Argonne69 said:

> > @Rory4Pres said:

> > My 2 cents on increasing viewership...

> > Typically, cbs broadcasts pga tour events on the weekends from 2-5 or 2-6pm. I'd say a great way to increase viewership of LPGA is to broadcast their events from 11am-2pm. I know this isn't ideal but on the other hand, I have to believe most pga golf viewers will likely watch the lpga if it's on beforehand. This isn't the end game for them but rather a way to gain more viewership.

> >

> >

>

> How do you broadcast a tournament from 11 am to 2 pm with 60 to 70 players in the field on the weekends? You send the leaders off first at 9 am? If they're playing in California, they tee off at 6 am?

>

> Do people not have DVRs?

 

The primary focus is gaining viewership. I'd definitely start them off early (7:30-8am) where ever they are playing but for the leaders who tee off later, their coverage would have to switch over to the golf channel at 2pm. The primary focus is getting lpga on one of the 4 major networks on a regular basis, not sure a major. It's not ideal, I know, but it's better than what's currently happening.

[Titleist_PT23]

America isn't dominating. They'd be first if they were dominating.

 

Regardless, to me it seems like some fans of the LPGA are missing the point. Others say they aren't interested for whatever reason. But no one believes what they say because they are not interested like us.