What is the one rule you wish could be changed

[LICC]

I'll quote the Principles Behind the Rules of Golf book that you recommended: "It is, of course, expected that the reader will appreciate it is the condition of his ball that makes it 'unfit for play' and the character of its lie that makes it 'unplayable'."

It doesn't say the difficulty of the window of the shot to the fairway makes it unplayable.

[LICC]

Or you can just read the Principles Behind the Rules of Golf book that I quoted above, to help you understand.

[LICC]

Show an actual real-world example of this please.

[LeoLeo99]

We already concluded that the rules makers realized this deficiency and removed the word "unplayable" from the rules. Same rule exists. It's just not called unplayable any longer.

[nsxguy]

No need to. You're arguing the definition of "unplayable". I'm just giving you a solution. I'll just go with the player being the sole judge of an "unplayable" as that's the way it's actually written (paraphrasing of course).

But wouldn't it be easier all around if you just had them change the rulebook to "unplayable/XXXXXX" ? Then YOU would be happy. Everyone else is already OK with it.

[Warrior42111]

@LICC
So of all the resources that people bring here, being a referee, going to rules seminars and just the years upon years of experience, are all wrong? As @davep043 and others have excellently pointed out, the rules of golf allow for the use of unplayable lies and the wording is not black and white and is done intentionally, or we'd have a 2000 page book of interpretations and exceptions.
The fact that you can't concede one point of credit to any of these people and their experience makes me think we're trying to have a healthy discussion with a 10 year old.
To get back to the OG OP; the one rule I would like seeing changed is more on the lines of course marking. I'd like to see some why to clearly mark bunkers from waster bunkers. Albeit a colored paint line, stakes, or even a score card that defines them well. I've played in a few casual rounds where no one in my group was sure what the bunker we were in is considered.

[nsxguy]

Ahhhhhh, thank you. I DO seem to recall that being stated earlier in the thread.So what are we arguing about again ??? LMAO

[HitEmTrue]

Your golf ball has never been in a big bush before? A small person/child can get in there much easier to hit a ball than a large person.

Does remind me of a time that I crawled under a cedar tree and attempted to hit it out from an almost laying down position. Failed to advance the ball on the first attempt, but it certainly would have been possible to do so. I should have taken unplayable lie relief (with a penalty!), but you'd say that I was being dishonest.

 

 

[HitEmTrue]

I will quote the current rules again:

"Rule 19 - Unplayable Ball

Purpose of Rule: Rule 19 covers the player’s several relief options for an unplayable ball. This allows the player to choose which option to use – normally with one penalty stroke – to get out of a difficult situation anywhere on the course (except in a penalty area)."

Perhaps it used to be called unplayable lie?

 

[LeoLeo99]

Someone else quoted the rule and it didn't mention unplayable. This is quite the quandary.

[LICC]

Do you think the rule does not use the word "unplayable"? Yes, that's about as accurate as your other arguments here.

[rogolf]

No, it's fine the way it is. The player's ball may be considered unplayable anywhere on the golf course except in a penalty area. The player (regardless of age, size or ability) is the sole judge as to whether the ball is unplayable and he wishes to proceed under the unplayable ball Rule. His ball could be under a bush, behind/beside a tree or on the lip of the hole, and he is proceeding correctly under the Rules if he chooses to proceed under the unplayable ball Rule.

[nsxguy]

To be TOTALLY ACCURATE as you pretend to be, I was reacting to some other person's (incorrect as it runs out) comment. My bad.

[LeoLeo99]

The rule says unplayable but there's no need for the ball to be unplayable. Hmmmm.

[davep043]

Let's leave the word "unplayable" out of the equation. Let's look at 18.1:

"At any time, a player may take stroke-and-distance relief by adding one penalty stroke and playing the original ball or another ball from where the previous stroke was made (see Rule 14.6)."

No value judgement involved, no parsing between different definitions of that word, no question of integrity. I am allowed at any time to return to the place I previously played from, add one penalty stroke, and play my next stroke. I can make this choice when my ball is truly impossible to hit, I can do this when its behind a forest of trees, I can even do this when its an inch from the hole.

[LICC]

Excellent point @davep043 ! Which reinforces the principle that unplayable lie relief is only to be taken based on the characteristic of the lie of the ball, not the difficulty of the situation. Rule 18.1 is perfectly logical.

[LICC]

In the bizarro logic world of some posters in this thread, this makes perfect sense.

[LICC]

Wrong. Your approach ignores Rule 1.2: "All players are expected to play in the spirit of the game by:

Acting with integrity – for example, by following the Rules, applying all penalties, and being honest in all aspects of play."

[rogolf]

It's you that are misinterpreting the Rules; playing the game by the Rules is "being honest in all aspects of play".

Rule 19.1 is clear, "The player is the only person who may decide to treat his or her ball as unplayable...." Note that it say "treat their ball as unplayable", it doesn't say that a stroke cannot be made at the ball.

You seem to be suggesting that the Rule says something else.

 

[LICC]

I don't give credence to groupthink of the posters here. Give me facts and reason to support an argument, not some title. As @davep043 just astutely pointed out, the posters arguing with me were confusing two different rules.

[LICC]

The rule says "unplayable". Any honest treatment would require that the ball be, you know, unplayable. If you want to just pick up a playable ball and go back to your original spot to hit, then operate under Rule 18.1, not Rule 19.

[nsxguy]

Perhaps one of the few(?) words in the ROG that ISN'T meant to be taken literally,,,,,,, since the ROG expand on their "definition",,,,,,,, ??? Hmmmmmmm

[davep043]

I said nothing of the sort. I said you are allowed to take stroke and distance relief at any time. You were stating quite clearly that you consider it offensive if a player takes relief when the ball is in a location where its reasonably possible to make a swing at it. I also quoted the PURPOSE of Rule 19, which is to allow the player options (beyond just stroke and distance relief) to get out of DIFFICULT SITUATIONS. You have apparently ignored that portion of the rules. The decision as to when a ball is "unplayable" is left to the player. The word "unplayable" is not in the definitions, there is no guidance as to the intention of the rule, other than its stated purpose. For you to claim that the rule intends this relief only when a ball cannot physically be played goes well beyond both the stated purpose and the words used.

And note that the term used is not "unplayable LIE" but "unplayable BALL." While not specifically stated, that implies to me that the player should justifiably take into account not just the specific location of the ball itself, but his stance, area of swing, and potential lines of play when deciding whether the ball is playable or not.

[LICC]

Unplayable. I'll define it for you. Cannot be played. I interpret this as meaning the ball does not have to be impossible to be struck, but difficult to be struck is a sufficient standard.

Take your wall of trees scenario. So you can go back to your original spot under Rule 18.1 But you want the option of back-of-line relief? So you can move back and for one penalty stroke drop the ball to a spot where you have a wider window to pitch back to the fairway, or no trees at all. But how is that in the spirit of the rules? The ball can be physically struck. Why shouldn't you have to play your ball back to the spot where you can then pitch to the fairway? This all falls under the rule on honest play. To say a ball is unplayable because you don't like the line of play is dishonest and unprincipled.

You probably regret recommending that book to me, but your take on this is also inconsistent with what I quoted you from the Tufts book, so there is that too.

[Halebopp]

Don't kid yourself, you don't care about facts and reason, you simply dismiss them altogether and when you do bother to reply, call the perfectly valid points crazy, hypothetical and whatnot while fail to answer questions asked from you. This thread is 28 pages long and by a wild guess, at least a third of the posts provide reasoning as to why things are the way they are or what problems people would face if the rules were the way you'd like them to be but you simply dismiss them all. You haven't even provided any actual texts for the rules which is why we need to ask about what happens with players of different height, strength and the KVC of ball truly being unplayable in order to be allowed to take relief. But your arguments are at the level of "because I told you so" and "uh, uh". That can't be considered even an argument, just a child being sulky, never mind actually having a civilized discussion.

 

Now if there was a way to make this whole thread disappear from my view.

 

[LICC]

What questions haven't I answered?

[Sawgrass]

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

Shame on you.

[Sawgrass]

Why do you refuse to acknowledge that the stated purpose of the rule is for one to get out of a "difficult situation" rather than one from which the ball cannot be played or from which it is difficult to strike?

 

Rule 19 - Unplayable BallPurpose of Rule: Rule 19 covers the player’s several relief options for an unplayable ball. This allows the player to choose which option to use – normally with one penalty stroke – to get out of a difficult situation anywhere on the course (except in a penalty area).

 

 

Sorry, since you steadfastly refuse to be intellectually honest, I can't be bothered any longer.

 

 

[davep043]

You do not get to add your own definitions to the rules, we are all tasked with playing as the rules are written and the way specific terms are defined in the rules right now. When you are selected to work on the rules committee of the R&A or USGA, you are welcome to try to institute your own definitions.

How is it within the "spirit of the rule"? Well, the stated purpose, what the Ruling Bodies have specifically defined as the spirit of the rule, is to allow options in difficult situations.

[Mikey5e]

No that's just your flawed reasoning influenced by your desire to disagree with me.