New World Handicaps 2020

[CaseyC]

> @"North Butte" said:

> K

>

> Imagine next time you went to the ATM to get some cash, it asked you to enter your PIN 18 times. New policy, designed to make absolutely sure you type the right PIN.

 

You mean like using a passphrase as a strong password to log onto your computer? Trivial

 

[North Butte]

I mean, thousands of guys who have been typing one number into GHIN after each round open it up one day and it says "ENTER YOUR SCORES HOLE BY HOLE". They are not going to like it. They're not logging onto a computer, they're not keeping track of golf stats, they are simply entering their "score" for handicap computation.

[DaveLeeNC]

> @CaseyC said:

> > @"North Butte" said:

> > K

> >

> > Imagine next time you went to the ATM to get some cash, it asked you to enter your PIN 18 times. New policy, designed to make absolutely sure you type the right PIN.

>

> You mean like using a passphrase as a strong password to log onto your computer? Trivial

>

 

And following the lead of standard internet PW management, you hide what has been typed so if you make an error you have to start all over again :-)

 

This discussion brought something to my mind. My phone fingerprint reader pretty much does not work when my hands are sweaty. Curious - have others encountered this?

 

dave

[CaseyC]

> @"North Butte" said:

> I mean, thousands of guys who have been typing one number into GHIN after each round open it up one day and it says "ENTER YOUR SCORES HOLE BY HOLE". They are not going to like it. They're not logging onto a computer, they're not keeping track of golf stats, they are simply entering their "score" for handicap computation.

 

Oh the horror! Entering 16 extra numbers! How did these guys ever adapt to entering into a computer to begin with? Do they still have rotary phones at home?

[klebs01]

I'm having a hard time getting though this thread. The anti hole by hole comments are crazy. I've put in not all states use ghin. I've put in a couple hundred hole by hole scores in the WSGA system on my phone in the past couple years and it's incredibly easy to do. I'm generally done before by beer is finished being poured. There is no way that doing the math separately and inputting a total is easier, or more reliable.

[CaseyC]

> @DaveLeeNC said:

 

> This discussion brought something to my mind. My phone fingerprint reader pretty much does not work when my hands are sweaty. Curious - have others encountered this?

>

> dave

I use face unlock.

 

[BlackDiamondPar5]

> @klebs01 said:

> I'm having a hard time getting though this thread. The anti hole by hole comments are crazy. I've put in not all states use ghin. I've put in a couple hundred hole by hole scores in the WSGA system on my phone in the past couple years and it's incredibly easy to do. I'm generally done before by beer is finished being poured. There is no way that doing the math separately and inputting a total is easier, or more reliable.

 

Just curious, from the time you open the app and finish entering all holes and press "Post" how many seconds is that? For me it takes 13 seconds to post a final score from the time the app is opened (assuming it's a course from the "recent" list). I can't imagine hole by hole can be done in much less than 2 mins, looking back and forth between the scorecard and phone, entering a digit, hitting next or enter or whatever are all extra steps and require more attention. I see the opportunity for data entry errors going up significantly.

 

I don't count the time to add the card because we've already figured that out with the guys I've played with, often added up while walking back to the clubhouse. No one would want to wait for it to be put into the system.

 

@DaveLeeNC Yes I agree a couple extra mins combined with the fact that many guys will need their reading glasses will be irritating. I think anything that increases possible posting errors (entering 18 times instead of 1 will) or discourages or allows people to forget to post is bad.

And yes, sweaty hands aren't great for fingerprint readers.

 

Again with my disclaimer: the USGA may surprise us. They may have a great App that allows you to photograph a scorecard that will be automatically imported into the system. Their App may allow real-time scoring which would be fun for tournaments. However given the USGA's low technological IQ and having a history of being out of touch with it's members, I will remain a skeptic critic till otherwise proven.

[DaveLeeNC]

> @klebs01 said:

> I'm having a hard time getting though this thread. The anti hole by hole comments are crazy. I've put in not all states use ghin. I've put in a couple hundred hole by hole scores in the WSGA system on my phone in the past couple years and it's incredibly easy to do. I'm generally done before by beer is finished being poured. There is no way that doing the math separately and inputting a total is easier, or more reliable.

 

Keep in mind that (IMHO) few, if any, of the posters in this thread personally oppose having to enter their own hole scores. They are simply stating what they believe will be the reaction of golfers who don't frequent forums such as this.

 

Regarding the accuracy improvement, I believe that there will still be a problem with respect to golfers not knowing their own ESC and the assumption that posting hole scores will fix that. Many golfers (in the US) will assume that they know their ESC and pick up when they hit that point, which might be wrong and result in an incorrect posting.

 

dave

[klebs01]

> @BlackDiamondPar5 said:

> > @klebs01 said:

> > I'm having a hard time getting though this thread. The anti hole by hole comments are crazy. I've put in not all states use ghin. I've put in a couple hundred hole by hole scores in the WSGA system on my phone in the past couple years and it's incredibly easy to do. I'm generally done before by beer is finished being poured. There is no way that doing the math separately and inputting a total is easier, or more reliable.

>

> Just curious, from the time you open the app and finish entering all holes and press "Post" how many seconds is that? For me it takes 13 seconds to post a final score from the time the app is opened (assuming it's a course from the "recent" list). I can't imagine hole by hole can be done in much less than 2 mins, looking back and forth between the scorecard and phone, entering a digit, hitting next or enter or whatever are all extra steps and require more attention. I see the opportunity for data entry errors going up significantly.

>

> I don't count the time to add the card because we've already figured that out with the guys I've played with, often added up while walking back to the clubhouse. No one would want to wait for it to be put into the system.

 

 

I would say 13 seconds is about right. It literally takes 18 key strokes to enter the score (assuming no 10+ hole scores). Don't have to hit enter or anything. The curser automatically moves to the next hole. The totals are already done. It the totals don't match then I would double check, but 13-15 seconds sounds about right. No need to worry about esc because that's all automatic.

[davep043]

In reading this, it seems pretty plain that none of the posters have ever participated in a re-numbering of the handicap for their course. That is done through hole-by-hole entering of scores. When we did it at my home club, the phone app wasn't able to take hole-by-hole entry easily, so those who chose to participate had to enter scores on the clubhouse computer. Typically, one player per group would do the data entry. And it honestly took only 2 or 3 minutes to enter all 4 scores. Can't most of us use the numeric keypad to enter scores without looking at the keys?

As for knowing where strokes fall, most of my play involves match play of some type. We're accustomed to looking at handicap strokes on each hole, so the hole maximums will be pretty straightforward.

But after reading about how incredibly complicated this will be for some players, I hope that the phone apps in the US will be adapted to require hole-by-hole entry. As with pretty much every change that happens in our lives, we'll get used to it pretty quickly.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

> @davep043 said:

> In reading this, it seems pretty plain that none of the posters have ever participated in a re-numbering of the handicap for their course. That is done through hole-by-hole entering of scores. When we did it at my home club, the phone app wasn't able to take hole-by-hole entry easily, so those who chose to participate had to enter scores on the clubhouse computer. Typically, one player per group would do the data entry. And it honestly took only 2 or 3 minutes to enter all 4 scores. Can't most of us use the numeric keypad to enter scores without looking at the keys?

> As for knowing where strokes fall, most of my play involves match play of some type. We're accustomed to looking at handicap strokes on each hole, so the hole maximums will be pretty straightforward.

> But after reading about how incredibly complicated this will be for some players, I hope that the phone apps in the US will be adapted to require hole-by-hole entry. As with pretty much every change that happens in our lives, we'll get used to it pretty quickly.

 

Dave I know you're a pretty logical guy, but you have to put yourself in the place of others. Asking someone to go to a terminal, keep a separate scorecard for themselves and/or key the scores for their group is a fairly large scope change compared to the current phone app. Keying hole by hole is a 9x more key strokes than keying a 2 digit final score and also is more error prone. Phone app with hole by hole posting would certainly be better than a terminal but it still means keeping individual score cards or handing one card around for the group. Either way this is more work and time.

 

The current phone app works great only entering final score and takes seconds and each guy is responsible for his own. We had a decent system before. Sure it needed some tweaks with some better controls, but I fail to see what investing extra time to post a round is going to get us? I see more errors and more excuses not to post. It's like paying more and getting less.

[davep043]

> @BlackDiamondPar5 said:

> Dave I know you're a pretty logical guy, but you have to put yourself in the place of others. Asking someone to go to a terminal, keep a separate scorecard for themselves and/or key the scores for their group is a fairly large scope change compared to the current phone app. Keying hole by hole is a 9x more key strokes than keying a 2 digit final score and also is more error prone. Phone app with hole by hole posting would certainly be better than a terminal but it still means keeping individual score cards or handing one card around for the group. Either way this is more work and time.

>

> The current phone app works great only entering final score and takes seconds and each guy is responsible for his own. We had a decent system before. Sure it needed some tweaks with some better controls, but I fail to see what investing extra time to post a round is going to get us? I see more errors and more excuses not to post. It's like paying more and getting less.

On one hand, I read that the new maximum hole score will be impossible for a large percentage of golfers (I don't agree, but our opinions can differ). Then I read that hole-by-hole scoring (so that golfers won't have to understand the max hole score) will be impossible for a large percentage of golfers (I don't agree with this either). The conclusion I come to is that some golfers dislike the changes, and will find reasons to complain about them. Well, for better or worse, the changes are going to happen, just like the new rules went into effect this year. I suggest that the most appropriate response is to find a way to work within the new handicap rules, rather than finding reasons to claim in advance that they won't work. After all, most of us have managed to learn to drop from knee high, we've kept our caddies away from the wrong spots while we're setting up, we HAVE adjusted. Do YOU have a better way to get the max score stuff to work, something besides posting hole scores? Its too late to stop the change, how would YOU make it work?

And what are we getting? We're getting some movement to begin the process of unifying handicaps around the world. This may be a first step (I hope it is) towards better anti-sandbagging measures, especially if we move towards formal attestation and/or competition-only handicapping. I know, THAT won't work either, people will quit having handicaps, blah blah blah, but for those of us who really want a better handicap system, its worth the extra few seconds posting scores.

 

[North Butte]

Dave,

 

The guys I play with either ignore or misunderstand the current ESC rules. And they are *extremely* resistant to dotting the cards for handicap strokes when some of us suggest playing real Stableford.

 

But hole-by-hole input of scores will not do anything to help that. Because they PICK UP when they hit (gross) double bogey. That's the only way they want to play, the only thing they seem to "understand" and if you make them type in 18 hole scores they are going to type in a "6" or whatever is double-bogey on their pickup holes.

 

You're trying to force people into doing something they have no interest in, no intention of doing, something that does not match the way they've played thousands of rounds of golf. It ain't gonna work. But it will be annoying as heck and it absolutely will lead to far more data-entry errors than simply typing in a score for the round.

[LICC]

> @davep043 said:

> > @BlackDiamondPar5 said:

> > Dave I know you're a pretty logical guy, but you have to put yourself in the place of others. Asking someone to go to a terminal, keep a separate scorecard for themselves and/or key the scores for their group is a fairly large scope change compared to the current phone app. Keying hole by hole is a 9x more key strokes than keying a 2 digit final score and also is more error prone. Phone app with hole by hole posting would certainly be better than a terminal but it still means keeping individual score cards or handing one card around for the group. Either way this is more work and time.

> >

> > The current phone app works great only entering final score and takes seconds and each guy is responsible for his own. We had a decent system before. Sure it needed some tweaks with some better controls, but I fail to see what investing extra time to post a round is going to get us? I see more errors and more excuses not to post. It's like paying more and getting less.

> On one hand, I read that the new maximum hole score will be impossible for a large percentage of golfers (I don't agree, but our opinions can differ). Then I read that hole-by-hole scoring (so that golfers won't have to understand the max hole score) will be impossible for a large percentage of golfers (I don't agree with this either). The conclusion I come to is that some golfers dislike the changes, and will find reasons to complain about them. Well, for better or worse, the changes are going to happen, just like the new rules went into effect this year. I suggest that the most appropriate response is to find a way to work within the new handicap rules, rather than finding reasons to claim in advance that they won't work. After all, most of us have managed to learn to drop from knee high, we've kept our caddies away from the wrong spots while we're setting up, we HAVE adjusted. Do YOU have a better way to get the max score stuff to work, something besides posting hole scores? Its too late to stop the change, how would YOU make it work?

> And what are we getting? We're getting some movement to begin the process of unifying handicaps around the world. This may be a first step (I hope it is) towards better anti-sandbagging measures, especially if we move towards formal attestation and/or competition-only handicapping. I know, THAT won't work either, people will quit having handicaps, blah blah blah, but for those of us who really want a better handicap system, its worth the extra few seconds posting scores.

>

 

Max score should be very simple to figure out and you are done figuring anything out once the hole is finished. You mark your card. Done. Hole-by-hole scoring into the system is ridiculous. And why? Because it is assumed that people who keep handicaps are too stupid to figure out their max scores? The new system shouldn't discourage people from posting scores.

[davep043]

> @"North Butte" said:

> Dave,

>

> The guys I play with either ignore or misunderstand the current ESC rules. And they are *extremely* resistant to dotting the cards for handicap strokes when some of us suggest playing real Stableford.

>

> But hole-by-hole input of scores will not do anything to help that. Because they PICK UP when they hit (gross) double bogey. That's the only way they want to play, the only thing they seem to "understand" and if you make them type in 18 hole scores they are going to type in a "6" or whatever is double-bogey on their pickup holes.

>

> You're trying to force people into doing something they have no interest in, no intention of doing, something that does not match the way they've played thousands of rounds of golf. It ain't gonna work. But it will be annoying as heck and it absolutely will lead to far more data-entry errors than simply typing in a score for the round.

 

I have a hard time being concerned about THOSE guys not understanding the new system when they've spent the last 40 years NOT understanding the system currently being used. I'm fine with letting them screw themselves out of handicap strokes. You can't develop a bozo-proof system, you have to design it so that the people who WANT to use it properly CAN use it properly. I won't have a problem understanding the new max score rules. I won't have a problem posting hole-by-hole if that's what is decided.

> @LICC said:

> Max score should be very simple to figure out and you are done figuring anything out once the hole is finished. You mark your card. Done. Hole-by-hole scoring into the system is ridiculous. And why? Because it is assumed that people who keep handicaps are too stupid to figure out their max scores? The new system shouldn't discourage people from posting scores.

I agree, its pretty simple to understand, but I do anticipate that at least a few people will be confused. If the USGA and whoever provides the handicap administration software are sufficiently concerned, hole-by-hole scoring will address that issue, through a (small) additional score entry procedure. Neither one will bother me. To me, hole-by-hole isn't so onerous that it should discourage anyone from posting.

 

[Deceptively Short]

Do you have different stroke indices in the US for matchplay and strokeplay (this exists in certain countries), the matchplay being all about equitable distribution and the strokeplay based on difficulty. If so for NDB would you use the different indices for when you are playing either format?

[ThinkingPlus]

> @"Deceptively Short" said:

> Do you have different stroke indices in the US for matchplay and strokeplay (this exists in certain countries), the matchplay being all about equitable distribution and the strokeplay based on difficulty. If so for NDB would you use the different indices for when you are playing either format?

 

Theoretically a course can do that here. From a practical standpoint, I have never seen that posted on a scorecard or board at a course. However, I have never looked into it much since I essentially never play match play (one tournament a year and a couple 2 or 3 play days in local golf groups I play with). I have noticed that I disagree with the hole allocations at quite a few places basing it on hardest hole criteria. I assume those allocations are match play based or random stupid.

[davep043]

> @ThinkingPlus said:

> > @"Deceptively Short" said:

> > Do you have different stroke indices in the US for matchplay and strokeplay (this exists in certain countries), the matchplay being all about equitable distribution and the strokeplay based on difficulty. If so for NDB would you use the different indices for when you are playing either format?

>

> Theoretically a course can do that here. From a practical standpoint, I have never seen that posted on a scorecard or board at a course. However, I have never looked into it much since I essentially never play match play (one tournament a year and a couple 2 or 3 play days in local golf groups I play with). I have noticed that I disagree with the hole allocations at quite a few places basing it on hardest hole criteria. I assume those allocations are match play based or random stupid.

 

Similarly, I have never seen different indices for match play v. stroke play. Most of my golf is played in some kind of match play format, and that's the way the handicap ordering is suggested to be done in the USGA Handicap Manual, using the differences between lower and higher handicap players. Handicap ordering doesn't enter into individual stroke play, although I can see its effect in fourball net stroke play, as well as in net Stableford competitions, but these are less common formats in my experience.

[ThinkingPlus]

> @davep043 said:

> > @ThinkingPlus said:

> > > @"Deceptively Short" said:

> > > Do you have different stroke indices in the US for matchplay and strokeplay (this exists in certain countries), the matchplay being all about equitable distribution and the strokeplay based on difficulty. If so for NDB would you use the different indices for when you are playing either format?

> >

> > Theoretically a course can do that here. From a practical standpoint, I have never seen that posted on a scorecard or board at a course. However, I have never looked into it much since I essentially never play match play (one tournament a year and a couple 2 or 3 play days in local golf groups I play with). I have noticed that I disagree with the hole allocations at quite a few places basing it on hardest hole criteria. I assume those allocations are match play based or random stupid.

>

> Similarly, I have never seen different indices for match play v. stroke play. Most of my golf is played in some kind of match play format, and that's the way the handicap ordering is suggested to be done in the USGA Handicap Manual, using the differences between lower and higher handicap players. Handicap ordering doesn't enter into individual stroke play, although I can see its effect in fourball net stroke play, as well as in net Stableford competitions, but these are less common formats in my experience.

 

I play with a group on weekends that plays net stroke play best 3/4 or 2/3. My current +1 index gets really hurt on the "easiest" hole. It is a par 3 that I typically hit 8 iron into a right to left into wind. The green is kind of L-shaped where no part of the green is greater than ~10 yards wide. I need a birdie to break even to help the team. LOL. Doesn't happen often. I know this is my own 1st world problem so I only beach a little bit.

[davep043]

> @ThinkingPlus said:

> I play with a group on weekends that plays net stroke play best 3/4 or 2/3. My current +1 index gets really hurt on the "easiest" hole. It is a par 3 that I typically hit 8 iron into a right to left into wind. The green is kind of L-shaped where no part of the green is greater than ~10 yards wide. I need a birdie to break even to help the team. LOL. Doesn't happen often. I know this is my own 1st world problem so I only beach a little bit.

In a way, this is almost like match play, in that the allocation of strokes on each hole matters in the scoring. You might try suggesting that you stroke off the low ball, so everyone would get one more, and you'd play at scratch. Of course, you're pretty experienced, you've probably made that suggestion already. Also as you say, that's a problem millions of players (including me) would like to have.

 

[ThinkingPlus]

> @davep043 said:

> > @ThinkingPlus said:

> > I play with a group on weekends that plays net stroke play best 3/4 or 2/3. My current +1 index gets really hurt on the "easiest" hole. It is a par 3 that I typically hit 8 iron into a right to left into wind. The green is kind of L-shaped where no part of the green is greater than ~10 yards wide. I need a birdie to break even to help the team. LOL. Doesn't happen often. I know this is my own 1st world problem so I only beach a little bit.

> In a way, this is almost like match play, in that the allocation of strokes on each hole matters in the scoring. You might try suggesting that you stroke off the low ball, so everyone would get one more, and you'd play at scratch. Of course, you're pretty experienced, you've probably made that suggestion already. Also as you say, that's a problem millions of players (including me) would like to have.

>

 

Like I said, my own 1st world problem. LOL. I did discuss letting me play the white tees, but that would have been complicated for them to understand and I would lose some of the camaraderie with the women playing (mixed group, couples, singles, etc...).

[CaseyC]

> @davep043 said:

 

>

> I have a hard time being concerned about THOSE guys not understanding the new system when they've spent the last 40 years NOT understanding the system currently being used. I'm fine with letting them screw themselves out of handicap strokes. You can't develop a bozo-proof system, you have to design it so that the people who WANT to use it properly CAN use it properly. I won't have a problem understanding the new max score rules. I won't have a problem posting hole-by-hole if that's what is decided.

 

>

 

Totally agree.

 

[North Butte]

> @davep043 said:

>I won't have a problem posting hole-by-hole if that's what is decided.

>To me, hole-by-hole isn't so onerous that it should discourage anyone from posting.

 

Well of course it won't bother you, Dave. You're someone who types dozens of posts a week on an online golf forum and who frequently participates in highly detailed discussions concerning the handicap system and the Rules of Golf. Almost no amount of interacting with a phone or computer would present a barrier to you. Or to most of the regulars here.

 

My comments are concerning the 80-90% (or whatever it is) of handicap holders for whom golf is something done entirely on the course, not rehashed on the Internet or treated like an interesting intellectual exercise to be discussed in minute detail. Their handicap is just a way of knowing how many strokes they're supposed to get or give.

 

They are not going to perceive ANY benefit to spending extra time transcribing hole-by-hole numbers just to receive exactly the same handicap information as they're getting today by punching their "78" or "92" into the GHIN app while drinking a post-round beer.

 

 

[davep043]

> @"North Butte" said:

> My comments are concerning the 80-90% (or whatever it is) of handicap holders for whom golf is something done entirely on the course, not rehashed on the Internet or treated like an interesting intellectual exercise to be discussed in minute detail. Their handicap is just a way of knowing how many strokes they're supposed to get or give.

>

> They are not going to perceive ANY benefit to spending extra time transcribing hole-by-hole numbers just to receive exactly the same handicap information as they're getting today by punching their "78" or "92" into the GHIN app while drinking a post-round beer.

I understand, so I ask the question again, what would you suggest be done? The change is going to happen, that is a given. Should the USGA and their handicap calculation service (or services, some state associations will use something different) continue with the current posting methods, knowing that some (many?) players will continue to do things incorrectly? Should they revise the software to ensure that the max score is applied more correctly, at the risk that some players will decline to post at all if the procedure is perceived as too complicated? We know that educational efforts won't be completely effective, especially with these casual players. Is there another option?

 

 

[North Butte]

I think they ought to continue on much as in the past. Tell everybody the new way they want max scores to be applied (net double bogey or whatever they decide) and then let people type their score into the GHIN app if they prefer.

 

As I understand it, there is already an option to somehow or another post hole-by-hole scores from a web browser. So anyone who wants to do that badly enough can do so.

 

I meet people occasionally who are still confused about the difference between handicap index and course handicap. There's a substantial subset of handicap holders who are going to over-simplify, misuse, misinterpret or just generally mess up any system USGA comes up with. You can't fix that by adding more hoops to be jumped through. Just let them muddle through as best they can.

 

Anyone who has spent the past 20 years and thousands of rounds picking up at (gross) double bogey and saying, "Just give me a 6" obviously isn't suffering greatly from their misapprehension of ESC. And they won't be put to any great discomfort by continuing to have "incorrect" handicaps by a stroke or so when they screw up the net double bogey version of ESC.

[LICC]

> @davep043 said:

> > @"North Butte" said:

> > My comments are concerning the 80-90% (or whatever it is) of handicap holders for whom golf is something done entirely on the course, not rehashed on the Internet or treated like an interesting intellectual exercise to be discussed in minute detail. Their handicap is just a way of knowing how many strokes they're supposed to get or give.

> >

> > They are not going to perceive ANY benefit to spending extra time transcribing hole-by-hole numbers just to receive exactly the same handicap information as they're getting today by punching their "78" or "92" into the GHIN app while drinking a post-round beer.

> I understand, so I ask the question again, what would you suggest be done? The change is going to happen, that is a given. Should the USGA and their handicap calculation service (or services, some state associations will use something different) continue with the current posting methods, knowing that some (many?) players will continue to do things incorrectly? Should they revise the software to ensure that the max score is applied more correctly, at the risk that some players will decline to post at all if the procedure is perceived as too complicated? We know that educational efforts won't be completely effective, especially with these casual players. Is there another option?

>

>

 

This shouldn't be that complicated. You post your final score. It's up to you to know the rules to make sure that score is accurate for handicap purposes. Other golfers shouldn't have to go through the substantially more annoying requirement of posting the score for every hole because some golfers won't be responsible enough to know how to score their round. How much of an effect would this really have? The better, more serious golfers with lower handicaps will know how to apply the rules, and aren't taking lots of triple bogeys anyway.

[Roadking2003]

> @dlygrisse said:

> Actually this new system is easier to remember. With the ESC I always forget where the cutoff is for max score on a hole. I’m at double, but I have a buddy who moves back and forth. Ow it will be the same principle for everyone.

 

Both are extremely easy to handle. A third-grader would have no problem with either system.

 

 

[Roadking2003]

> @"mark m" said: Finally, what I see all the time, is guys riding in carts and they brought their music/speakers and are looking at their phone all the time. But I play mostly public courses. YMMV.

 

I see guys walking and on their phone all the time at my club. So what's your point?

 

[DaveLeeNC]

If the USGA wants hole by hole scores to improve the accuracy of the mapping from 'golf scores' to posted scores, they should use this tool to address the accuracy issues inherent in the current system.

 

First they should NOT use 'match play handicaps' to establish ESC scores. As has been stated many times, match play hole handicaps have nothing to do directly with difficulty against par. The USGA has a very good assessment of the difficulty of each hole against par for both scratch and bogey golfers (this is part of the rating process). So the rating process should set the hole handicaps (at least for purposes of ESC).

 

A given hole might have as many as 5 different tees but only one hole handicap. Hole handicaps are generally set from the most commonly used tees (the middle tees in my experience). Sometimes the white tees and blues tees are 10 to 15 yards apart. And sometimes they are 75 yards apart. But only one set of hole handicaps. The new system could easily accommodate different hole handicaps for each set of tees.

 

These actions would (IMHO) fix more 'inaccuracies' than the issue of golfers who improperly apply ESC simply because it potentially affects almost everybody's posted scores.

 

Golfers picking up and recording an (intentionally or not) incorrect ESC score remains an unaddressed problem hole by hole or not.

 

dave

[North Butte]

I’ll tell you what. If USGA will start basing handicaps solely on competitive scores attested by other handicap subscribers I will gladly enter my scores hole by hole.