New World Handicaps 2020

[BlackDiamondPar5]

> @"Colin L" said:

> I dropped into my club this evening to make a restaurant booking and passed a couple of guys at the terminal putting in their scores from today's medal. They would already, as required by the Rules, have marked up each other's cards on a hole by hole basis and signed the cards as marker or player. Fast forward to a phone app and these same guys would have been in the bar when I came in. They would have taken no longer, possibly less time, to enter each other's hole by hole score on a phone than with card and pencil. I just don't get the idea that it takes more time when in fact it cuts out one process from the current system and I don't get the idea that it takes longer on course than recording a score on a card. As for _exponentially_ longer, that is baffling.

 

Perhaps you've never seen or used the current GHIN phone app. Start to finish is 13 seconds. Its absolutely, physically impossible to enter 18 digits while looking back and forth between scorecard and screen as you go hole by hole vs. entry of two digits of final score.

 

Paper and pencil adds no time because that's done ahead of time on the course. Scores often totalled walking back to clubhouse. We each know the score we need to post. We've got to be speaking different languages or processes because it doesn't make sense.

 

[ThinkingPlus]

> @"Colin L" said:

> I dropped into my club this evening to make a restaurant booking and passed a couple of guys at the terminal putting in their scores from today's medal. They would already, as required by the Rules, have marked up each other's cards on a hole by hole basis and signed the cards as marker or player. Fast forward to a phone app and these same guys would have been in the bar when I came in. They would have taken no longer, possibly less time, to enter each other's hole by hole score on a phone than with card and pencil. I just don't get the idea that it takes more time when in fact it cuts out one process from the current system and I don't get the idea that it takes longer on course than recording a score on a card. As for _exponentially_ longer, that is baffling.

 

The biggest issue for me is what BDP5 has pointed out which is I don't carry my phone on the golf course. I consider taking a phone out onto the golf course as somewhat inconsiderate, but that is probably just me.

[Newby]

It seems to take about 5 hours to play a round over there but let's say 4. Is 30 seconds extra really a big deal when your there for another hour nursing your beer ;)

[Colin L]

> @ThinkingPlus said:

> > @"Colin L" said:

> > I dropped into my club this evening to make a restaurant booking and passed a couple of guys at the terminal putting in their scores from today's medal. They would already, as required by the Rules, have marked up each other's cards on a hole by hole basis and signed the cards as marker or player. Fast forward to a phone app and these same guys would have been in the bar when I came in. They would have taken no longer, possibly less time, to enter each other's hole by hole score on a phone than with card and pencil. I just don't get the idea that it takes more time when in fact it cuts out one process from the current system and I don't get the idea that it takes longer on course than recording a score on a card. As for _exponentially_ longer, that is baffling.

>

> The biggest issue for me is what BDP5 has pointed out which is I don't carry my phone on the golf course. I consider taking a phone out onto the golf course as somewhat inconsiderate, but that is probably just me.

 

There is nothing inconsiderate about carrying a scorecard and pencil on a golf course to record your score. Why should there be anything inconsiderate in carrying a phone for the same purpose? Just make sure it's on silent and don't use it for anything else.

[North Butte]

> @"Colin L" said:

> > @ThinkingPlus said:

> > > @"Colin L" said:

> > > I dropped into my club this evening to make a restaurant booking and passed a couple of guys at the terminal putting in their scores from today's medal. They would already, as required by the Rules, have marked up each other's cards on a hole by hole basis and signed the cards as marker or player. Fast forward to a phone app and these same guys would have been in the bar when I came in. They would have taken no longer, possibly less time, to enter each other's hole by hole score on a phone than with card and pencil. I just don't get the idea that it takes more time when in fact it cuts out one process from the current system and I don't get the idea that it takes longer on course than recording a score on a card. As for _exponentially_ longer, that is baffling.

> >

> > The biggest issue for me is what BDP5 has pointed out which is I don't carry my phone on the golf course. I consider taking a phone out onto the golf course as somewhat inconsiderate, but that is probably just me.

>

> There is nothing inconsiderate about carrying a scorecard and pencil on a golf course to record your score. Why should there be anything inconsiderate in carrying a phone for the same purpose? Just make sure it's on silent and don't use it for anything else.

 

You're kidding, right? The phone is not sitting reading to "write" on like a paper scorecard. You have to swipe to unlock, enter a PIN or thumbprint and then navigate to the specific little box you want to enter information in. Then use a pop-up keyboard. Then put the phone away. I've played with guys doing phone-app junk as part of their "golf" and it is both slow and annoying for the others in the group.

 

But the worst part is you've got to be bloody tethered to your smartphone for the entire 18 holes. That's one of the many things I'm getting away from when I'm playing golf. Do you really think there's any constituency out there for making a de facto Rule of Golf that requires every golfer to have his phone with him every time he plays and intends to post a handicap score?

 

And as far as paper cards go, I don't keep them unless I'm keeping score for the entire group. I can fully remember every stroke of my round and am constitutionally unable to NOT know what my exact hole score and round-so-far score is at every point in the round. So when I type a number in GHIN it is generally from a remembered scores, not transcribing from a scorecard.

 

It's bad enough the way the handicap system tries to be the cart that drives the horse by requiring elaborate posting rules that apply to every single round a golfer players. To add a layer of phone-app nonsense as an additional requirement would totally jump the shark.

[ThinkingPlus]

> @"Colin L" said:

> > @ThinkingPlus said:

> > > @"Colin L" said:

> > > I dropped into my club this evening to make a restaurant booking and passed a couple of guys at the terminal putting in their scores from today's medal. They would already, as required by the Rules, have marked up each other's cards on a hole by hole basis and signed the cards as marker or player. Fast forward to a phone app and these same guys would have been in the bar when I came in. They would have taken no longer, possibly less time, to enter each other's hole by hole score on a phone than with card and pencil. I just don't get the idea that it takes more time when in fact it cuts out one process from the current system and I don't get the idea that it takes longer on course than recording a score on a card. As for _exponentially_ longer, that is baffling.

> >

> > The biggest issue for me is what BDP5 has pointed out which is I don't carry my phone on the golf course. I consider taking a phone out onto the golf course as somewhat inconsiderate, but that is probably just me.

>

> There is nothing inconsiderate about carrying a scorecard and pencil on a golf course to record your score. Why should there be anything inconsiderate in carrying a phone for the same purpose? Just make sure it's on silent and don't use it for anything else.

 

Phones can be used in an appropriate manner. They usually aren't though. I have used the 18birdies app for scoring. It wasn't wonderful. I will just stick with pencil/scorecard and, if necessary, do hole by hole scores later at home. If my only option for hole by hole posting is via the computer at the club, I am not sure what I will do. Would certainly be a PITA to do all my posting at the club.

[Colin L]

> @"North Butte" said:

 

> It's bad enough the way the handicap system tries to be the cart that drives the horse by requiring elaborate posting rules that apply to every single round a golfer players. To add a layer of phone-app nonsense as an additional requirement would totally jump the shark.

 

A different method of recording scores is an alternative not an add-on. A difference in our view of all of this is, of course, that in my part of the world, for a score to be acceptable for handicapping you have to play by the Rules of Golf. Rule 3.3b requires hole by hole recording in stroke play. As a result, no-one ever thinks twice about recording in this way - it's just part of the game.

I'm sure you exaggerate for effect the "problems" of recording on a phone. In any case there is ample time between holes without holding anyone up. Our normal competition grouping is 3 players which gives you at least the time it takes 2 players to tee off and perhaps also the time while one or both of them putt out after you have.

 

[Newby]

> @"North Butte" said:

 

> And as far as paper cards go, I don't keep them unless I'm keeping score for the entire group. I can fully remember every stroke of my round and am constitutionally unable to NOT know what my exact hole score and round-so-far score is at every point in the round. So when I type a number in GHIN it is generally from a remembered scores, not transcribing from a scorecard.

>

>

Don't you have markers? I thought the Rules required them.

Incidentally, do use any form of electronic DMD?

 

[Tocgolfer]

I am used to playing my game and marking my fellow players card as his/her marker and when we finish the score card is scanned and entered into golflink and depending on how I play my handicap could move one way or the other. If I play a social round with a friend as long as we play from either blue tees or white tees and our handicap is adjusted as per the slope rating and don’t give gimmee’s and finish the hole we can get the pro shop to enter our score into golflink as a conforming social score.

 

[North Butte]

> @Tocgolfer said:

> I am used to playing my game and marking my fellow players card as his/her marker and when we finish the score card is scanned and entered into golflink and depending on how I play my handicap could move one way or the other. If I play a social round with a friend as long as we play from either blue tees or white tees and our handicap is adjusted as per the slope rating and don’t give gimmee’s and finish the hole we can get the pro shop to enter our score into golflink as a conforming social score.

 

 

> @Newby said:

> > @"North Butte" said:

>

> > And as far as paper cards go, I don't keep them unless I'm keeping score for the entire group. I can fully remember every stroke of my round and am constitutionally unable to NOT know what my exact hole score and round-so-far score is at every point in the round. So when I type a number in GHIN it is generally from a remembered scores, not transcribing from a scorecard.

> >

> >

> Don't you have markers? I thought the Rules required them.

> Incidentally, do use any form of electronic DMD?

>

 

I almost never play in comps (two rounds in the last four years I think). All my play is in daily rollup games at my club or solo rounds which are not posted. There's no committee, no markers, no attestation, no signing or turning in cards. It's a dozen or so guys picking teams and throwing money in the pot to pay the winners.

 

And yes I use a laser rangefinder always.

 

My description of how I play is also true for quite a few other members of my club, although there are also plenty of guys who play in organized comps as well.

 

I think these last two replies to my comments about posting point out the disconnect between everything I say in this thread and what the bulk of the discussion seems to assume. I'm only looking at the handicap system as something used informally by people like myself playing "social" or friendly or casual games. Not organized competitions. And I'm describing the perspective of guy posting 100 to 250 scores per year into GHIN from those casual rounds. You guys seem to be picturing markers and signed cards and results posted on a tournament leaderboard and all the extra complexity that comes with formal competition. That's just not part of my golf life on anything but a very occasional basis.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

> @"North Butte" said:

> > @Tocgolfer said:

> > I am used to playing my game and marking my fellow players card as his/her marker and when we finish the score card is scanned and entered into golflink and depending on how I play my handicap could move one way or the other. If I play a social round with a friend as long as we play from either blue tees or white tees and our handicap is adjusted as per the slope rating and don’t give gimmee’s and finish the hole we can get the pro shop to enter our score into golflink as a conforming social score.

>

>

> > @Newby said:

> > > @"North Butte" said:

> >

> > > And as far as paper cards go, I don't keep them unless I'm keeping score for the entire group. I can fully remember every stroke of my round and am constitutionally unable to NOT know what my exact hole score and round-so-far score is at every point in the round. So when I type a number in GHIN it is generally from a remembered scores, not transcribing from a scorecard.

> > >

> > >

> > Don't you have markers? I thought the Rules required them.

> > Incidentally, do use any form of electronic DMD?

> >

>

> I almost never play in comps (two rounds in the last four years I think). All my play is in daily rollup games at my club or solo rounds which are not posted. There's no committee, no markers, no attestation, no signing or turning in cards. It's a dozen or so guys picking teams and throwing money in the pot to pay the winners.

>

> And yes I use a laser rangefinder always.

>

> My description of how I play is also true for quite a few other members of my club, although there are also plenty of guys who play in organized comps as well.

>

> I think these last two replies to my comments about posting point out the disconnect between everything I say in this thread and what the bulk of the discussion seems to assume. I'm only looking at the handicap system as something used informally by people like myself playing "social" or friendly or casual games. Not organized competitions. And I'm describing the perspective of guy posting 100 to 250 scores per year into GHIN from those casual rounds. You guys seem to be picturing markers and signed cards and results posted on a tournament leaderboard and all the extra complexity that comes with formal competition. That's just not part of my golf life on anything but a very occasional basis.

 

Your description of how you play I believe is consistent with 99% of golf played in the USA. Consistent with how my friends and I play most our rounds. Typically one guy keeps the card for the group. At the end scores are totaled we deduct our handicap strokes and low net wins a few bucks.

 

If we have to post 18 hole by hole scores instead of just one final score, not only will that take a lot longer but now we have to make sure we pass the card around to enter it and each guy is waiting for the other. Many guys will probably need to bring their reading glasses. Many guys may not post all rounds due to the additional hassle or forget. That's a very bad thing.

 

This discussion absolutely highlights the disconnect of how golf is played in the USA vs many other parts of the world. The alleged need for a WHS is a contrived farce... it's effectively a round peg in a square hole.

 

If this is the way it's going to be then it's really going to suck.

 

Disclaimer: maybe the usga will surprise us and it won't be exactly as portrayed in this thread. Maybe there will be an app that can photograph your card and enter data hole by hole automatically. Maybe hole by hole entry isn't even part of the new requirement. For now though given the usga horrible reputation for being out of touch with the majority of American golfers and its low technical IQ, I'm going to remain a skeptic critic.

[DaveLeeNC]

> @"Colin L" said:

> I'm sure you are wrong! You finish a hole. At the next tee while someone else is teeing off, you pull out your phone just as you would a card, key in a single digit (ok maybe occasionally 2!) and put your phone back in your pocket or in your bag.

>

> By the way, I can't believe that every player in the USA is capable of calculating his adjusted gross score and remembering it without ever writing anything down. I couldn't.

 

Most of my golf is 4 person team play. There is one card for the group and the scorer records (for each player) the team contribution (net score, points, whatever) and their posting score. In the case of ESC for the games we play, ESC holes almost never contribute to the team score. So at the end of the round a guy will ask "What did I shoot". He gets the answer and the job is done. Hole by hole will require each golfer to keep his own card. Not a big deal, but not nothing either. And many golfers do keep a personal card where they typically record personal stats.

 

Dave

[Luando85]

Interested to see how this plays out. I like that it based on every single round and not have to wait every 1st and 15th

[Roadking2003]

> @Newby said:

> It seems to take about 5 hours to play a round over there .....

 

Is "Over there" the USA? If so, you are wrong.

 

I play about 140 rounds per year and can't remember the last time a round of golf took five hours. My rounds probably average 4 hours or less.

 

Yes, some take that long but I would not call it typical.

 

[mark m]

Random Thoughts on this subject:

* I believe some of the rhetoric here is over the top regarding posting hole by hole scores. It's a piece of cake - the Golf Genius app is easy to use. It does not have to be prompted - it automatically moves to the next player or next hole when the score(s) are entered. My local golf association asks those playing in the various championships to download the app. They ask one player per group to enter hole by hole scores. I have volunteered to be a the guy a few times and I would estimate it took about 5 seconds total to open my iPhone using my thumb print and post the score for all 4 players in my group (example is a fourball stroke play championship). This was easily done while going over to the next tee box. In addition, we kept official scorecards. here is the policy:

https://www.mngolf.org/digital_scoring_policy

* In one of the championships there was one group that could not get a volunteer to enter the digital scores. I happen to be at the table and overheard the conversation between the tournament director and one of the members of the group. He asked this competitior because the guy was a former officer of the the golf association. The TD was very calm and asked why - so he can provide the correct answer/reasoning when he is asked about it. The competitor was cranky and basically said it "would throw him off his game" and that his partner felt the same way. (IMO - It wasn't very convincing.) In general, some people like to make a mountains out of molehills.

* I typically bring my moblie phone with me when I play. The main reasons are safety related - weather or medical emergencies. It is also handy when we have a slow play issue. I can call the pro shop and they will send out someone to get things moving. I have it on silent and use it in about half the rounds I play. Today it started to rain at the turn I checked the radar to see what we were in for. That's about it.

* If they move to hole by hole scoring I would estimate about 20 seconds total to open the app, post 18 hole scores, check the scores, and hit post. Not a big deal.

Cheers

Mark

 

[MadGolfer76]

Good grief....first world problems.

[dlygrisse]

Actually this new system is easier to remember. With the ESC I always forget where the cutoff is for max score on a hole. I’m at double, but I have a buddy who moves back and forth. Ow it will be the same principle for everyone.

 

> @Newby said:

> > @BlackDiamondPar5 said:

> > That replacement for ESC is going to befuddle about 75% of golfers. I fear it's going to make indexes less accurate.

> Are you really suggesting that all American golfers are less intelligent than the golfers in the rest of the world?

>

>

 

 

[BlackDiamondPar5]

> @dlygrisse said:

> Actually this new system is easier to remember. With the ESC I always forget where the cutoff is for max score on a hole. I’m at double, but I have a buddy who moves back and forth. Ow it will be the same principle for everyone.

>

> > @Newby said:

> > > @BlackDiamondPar5 said:

> > > That replacement for ESC is going to befuddle about 75% of golfers. I fear it's going to make indexes less accurate.

> > Are you really suggesting that all American golfers are less intelligent than the golfers in the rest of the world?

> >

> >

>

>

 

But with the new system don't you need to know your handicap strokes on each hole to determine your max? Unless playing match play we don't care because the handicap is just subtracted from the total, so I see room for more mistakes.

[DLiver]

I'm not posting hole-by-hole scores.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

> @"mark m" said:

> Random Thoughts on this subject:

> * I believe some of the rhetoric here is over the top regarding posting hole by hole scores. It's a piece of cake - the Golf Genius app is easy to use. It does not have to be prompted - it automatically moves to the next player or next hole when the score(s) are entered. My local golf association asks those playing in the various championships to download the app. They ask one player per group to enter hole by hole scores. I have volunteered to be a the guy a few times and I would estimate it took about 5 seconds total to open my iPhone using my thumb print and post the score for all 4 players in my group (example is a fourball stroke play championship). This was easily done while going over to the next tee box. In addition, we kept official scorecards. here is the policy:

> https://www.mngolf.org/digital_scoring_policy

> * In one of the championships there was one group that could not get a volunteer to enter the digital scores. I happen to be at the table and overheard the conversation between the tournament director and one of the members of the group. He asked this competitior because the guy was a former officer of the the golf association. The TD was very calm and asked why - so he can provide the correct answer/reasoning when he is asked about it. The competitor was cranky and basically said it "would throw him off his game" and that his partner felt the same way. (IMO - It wasn't very convincing.) In general, some people like to make a mountains out of molehills.

> * I typically bring my moblie phone with me when I play. The main reasons are safety related - weather or medical emergencies. It is also handy when we have a slow play issue. I can call the pro shop and they will send out someone to get things moving. I have it on silent and use it in about half the rounds I play. Today it started to rain at the turn I checked the radar to see what we were in for. That's about it.

> * If they move to hole by hole scoring I would estimate about 20 seconds total to open the app, post 18 hole scores, check the scores, and hit post. Not a big deal.

> Cheers

> Mark

>

 

No doubt if you enter scores into your phone hole by hole it won't add time, could be easy, give real-time scoring for those in tournaments which is pretty cool. But most golf in the US is played outside of tournaments. For reasons discussed previously many times, many don't prefer to interact with their phone during a round. Having your phone in your pocket during a round will allow it to get contaminated with dirt/sand that inevitably ends up in your pocket. That grit will scratch and damage your device. Pulling your phone out 18 times around greatly increases the chances of dropping and ruining your $1,00 phone.

 

It's not rhetoric.

[Augustok]

I keep my score on my watch and the phone stays in the bag on airplane mode. After the round the phone gets turned on and score card downloads to phone and is automatically emailed to me and i can see how many putts, GIR, total score. Takes no extra time plus Watch is GPS too. In tournaments there are written score cards of course. The pro shop enters the scores. I guess with Golf Genius which was mentioned before.

[North Butte]

> @Augustok said:

> The pro shop enters the scores. I guess with Golf Genius which was mentioned before.

 

Does your pro shop enter every round for every day play? Or just tournaments/comps?

 

I can't imagine our pro volunteering to enter 100+ scorecards a day 300+ days a year.

 

 

[CaseyC]

Guys in our group take photos of the scorecard and enter hole by hole in the bar, or later at home via phone or their computer.

[North Butte]

> @CaseyC said:

> Guys in our group take photos of the scorecard and enter hole by hole in the bar, or later at home via phone or their computer.

 

I probably can't speak for every single one of the guys I play with but for myself and I'm sure for most (if not all) of them, that just seems way over the top. I honestly can't believe a whole club full of people would go along with that for everyday play.

[CaseyC]

Well, our club cares about accurate handicaps. If you don't you can't play in a club event that uses handicaps.

 

Seriously, guys are worried about the time differnence to enter 18 hole by hole scores compared to just overall scores? What's the time delta? 30 seconds?

[DaveLeeNC]

> @CaseyC said:

> Well, our club cares about accurate handicaps. If you don't you can't play in a club event that uses handicaps.

>

> Seriously, guys are worried about the time differnence to enter 18 hole by hole scores compared to just overall scores? What's the time delta? 30 seconds?

 

There are many clubs that care about handicaps. And probably all of those clubs have members who

 

1) Care about handicaps

2) Have a phone that might or might not take pictures (they would not know). And maybe they carry it on the course and maybe it is back in the car. These would be older (late 70's and older) folks almost exclusively.

 

These guys are going to have to keep their own scorecard, which (IMHO) is what they are going to do as it is the most expedient path for them. Then they will go home, log onto www.ghin.com, and post their score. And there are a few guys that I am aware of that ONLY post at the club terminals.

 

This is all doable but not trivial in all cases. And for these guys it is probably a minute to enter hole by hole. But I would guess that most of the time they will make an entry error and they will have to track that down. So probably more like 3 minutes.

 

dave

[CaseyC]

3 whole minutes extra? Yeah, that's trivial.

[North Butte]

Keep in mind, these guys are used to typing "85" into their phone or computer or whatever. And they're done. One number each for their 250 rounds a year. A number they already have in their head without looking at a scorecard.

 

Someone is going to have to convince them to start keeping track of the scorecard, then using it to do 18 times that effort, for NO benefit to themselves whatsoever. That's going to be a hard sell and I truly do not think USGA is going to be willing to sign on to selling it.

 

Imagine next time you went to the ATM to get some cash, it asked you to enter your PIN 18 times. New policy, designed to make absolutely sure you type the right PIN. On the one hand, how much time could it take you type it 18 times? A couple minutes maybe, right? On the other hand, why would you want to do that instead of typing it once like you always have done?

[DaveLeeNC]

> @CaseyC said:

> 3 whole minutes extra? Yeah, that's trivial.

 

30 seconds is trivial (and a misrepresentation in some cases). I would find 3 minutes to be irritating.

 

dave

[mark m]

> @BlackDiamondPar5 said:

> > @"mark m" said:

> > Random Thoughts on this subject:

> > * I believe some of the rhetoric here is over the top regarding posting hole by hole scores. It's a piece of cake - the Golf Genius app is easy to use. It does not have to be prompted - it automatically moves to the next player or next hole when the score(s) are entered. My local golf association asks those playing in the various championships to download the app. They ask one player per group to enter hole by hole scores. I have volunteered to be a the guy a few times and I would estimate it took about 5 seconds total to open my iPhone using my thumb print and post the score for all 4 players in my group (example is a fourball stroke play championship). This was easily done while going over to the next tee box. In addition, we kept official scorecards. here is the policy:

> > https://www.mngolf.org/digital_scoring_policy

> > * In one of the championships there was one group that could not get a volunteer to enter the digital scores. I happen to be at the table and overheard the conversation between the tournament director and one of the members of the group. He asked this competitior because the guy was a former officer of the the golf association. The TD was very calm and asked why - so he can provide the correct answer/reasoning when he is asked about it. The competitor was cranky and basically said it "would throw him off his game" and that his partner felt the same way. (IMO - It wasn't very convincing.) In general, some people like to make a mountains out of molehills.

> > * I typically bring my moblie phone with me when I play. The main reasons are safety related - weather or medical emergencies. It is also handy when we have a slow play issue. I can call the pro shop and they will send out someone to get things moving. I have it on silent and use it in about half the rounds I play. Today it started to rain at the turn I checked the radar to see what we were in for. That's about it.

> > * If they move to hole by hole scoring I would estimate about 20 seconds total to open the app, post 18 hole scores, check the scores, and hit post. Not a big deal.

> > Cheers

> > Mark

> >

>

> No doubt if you enter scores into your phone hole by hole it won't add time, could be easy, give real-time scoring for those in tournaments which is pretty cool. But most golf in the US is played outside of tournaments. For reasons discussed previously many times, many don't prefer to interact with their phone during a round. Having your phone in your pocket during a round will allow it to get contaminated with dirt/sand that inevitably ends up in your pocket. That grit will scratch and damage your device. Pulling your phone out 18 times around greatly increases the chances of dropping and ruining your $1,00 phone.

>

> It's not rhetoric.

 

You would not have to use your phone during the round if you do not want to. If you do, it will likely be quick and easy.

I walk and use a push cart most rounds. My phone and range finder are in my bag (not in my pocket). I pull out the bushnell 20+ times per round and it takes more time to use it than it would to enter scores. Not even close. You could also post after the round and my estimate is about 20+ seconds to post and review 18 hole scores. Finally, what I see all the time, is guys riding in carts and they brought their music/speakers and are looking at their phone all the time. But I play mostly public courses. YMMV.