Newer technology irons and so called "wedge gapping"...

[Red4282]

> @Hawkeye77 said:

> > @Ripken08 said:

> > I read this over and over on the forums. I am speaking of sets with new technology like cup faces with a PW of 45 degrees. People saying so many gaps with their wedges etc etc. Some of you crazies carry 4 or 5 wedges! Why? Because you want a 125, 115, 105, 95 yd club?

> > I have 4 now counting my PW, but could easily replace my 54/58 with a 56.

> > Here is my take. Those who claim to have gaps or carry a bazillion wedges...it comes down to two things:

> > 1) course management - put your shot at a comfortable distance if you need a full swing

> > 2) learn to hit varieties of shots with partial swings with a few wedges and become a better golfer

> >

> > Rant over...:)

>

> Pointless rant from someone with 4 wedges who hasn't replaced his 54/58 (but could easily do so, lol). Maybe get rid of your 5-7-9 irons, also.

>

> Some of us have become better golfers understanding the value of different wedges with different bounce angles, as one example. Using different lofts and different shots with those clubs for certain situations around the greens, another example. My 52 degree is pretty much my 100 yard club. My 54 and 58 have specific uses and used for different kinds of shotmaking. Hardly a "science" vs. "art" debate, and hardly mutually exclusive.

>

> The fact you think people are gapping their wedges based on full swing distances suggests you may benefit from a little more thought and study.

>

> Use as many or as few wedges as you like, whatever works, but the thread starter here is pretty weak.

>

>

>

>

>

>

 

Exactly and as soon as you start hitting partial shots you lose stopping power. Obviously there is a time and a place when its ok or even desired (wind) but why you would want to sacrifice “scoring” clubs is beyond me.

[boggyman]

I hit partial shots all the time, even with a pitching wedge that does not lose stopping power. Unless one is a scratch golfer or pro playing for a living, golf is highly overthought. > @Red4282 said:

> > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > @Ripken08 said:

> > > I read this over and over on the forums. I am speaking of sets with new technology like cup faces with a PW of 45 degrees. People saying so many gaps with their wedges etc etc. Some of you crazies carry 4 or 5 wedges! Why? Because you want a 125, 115, 105, 95 yd club?

> > > I have 4 now counting my PW, but could easily replace my 54/58 with a 56.

> > > Here is my take. Those who claim to have gaps or carry a bazillion wedges...it comes down to two things:

> > > 1) course management - put your shot at a comfortable distance if you need a full swing

> > > 2) learn to hit varieties of shots with partial swings with a few wedges and become a better golfer

> > >

> > > Rant over...:)

> >

> > Pointless rant from someone with 4 wedges who hasn't replaced his 54/58 (but could easily do so, lol). Maybe get rid of your 5-7-9 irons, also.

> >

> > Some of us have become better golfers understanding the value of different wedges with different bounce angles, as one example. Using different lofts and different shots with those clubs for certain situations around the greens, another example. My 52 degree is pretty much my 100 yard club. My 54 and 58 have specific uses and used for different kinds of shotmaking. Hardly a "science" vs. "art" debate, and hardly mutually exclusive.

> >

> > The fact you think people are gapping their wedges based on full swing distances suggests you may benefit from a little more thought and study.

> >

> > Use as many or as few wedges as you like, whatever works, but the thread starter here is pretty weak.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

> Exactly and as soon as you start hitting partial shots you lose stopping power. Obviously there is a time and a place when its ok or even desired (wind) but why you would want to sacrifice “scoring” clubs is beyond me.

 

 

[Red4282]

> @boggyman said:

> I hit partial shots all the time, even with a pitching wedge that does not lose stopping power. Unless one is a scratch golfer or pro playing for a living, golf is highly overthought. > @Red4282 said:

> > > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > > @Ripken08 said:

> > > > I read this over and over on the forums. I am speaking of sets with new technology like cup faces with a PW of 45 degrees. People saying so many gaps with their wedges etc etc. Some of you crazies carry 4 or 5 wedges! Why? Because you want a 125, 115, 105, 95 yd club?

> > > > I have 4 now counting my PW, but could easily replace my 54/58 with a 56.

> > > > Here is my take. Those who claim to have gaps or carry a bazillion wedges...it comes down to two things:

> > > > 1) course management - put your shot at a comfortable distance if you need a full swing

> > > > 2) learn to hit varieties of shots with partial swings with a few wedges and become a better golfer

> > > >

> > > > Rant over...:)

> > >

> > > Pointless rant from someone with 4 wedges who hasn't replaced his 54/58 (but could easily do so, lol). Maybe get rid of your 5-7-9 irons, also.

> > >

> > > Some of us have become better golfers understanding the value of different wedges with different bounce angles, as one example. Using different lofts and different shots with those clubs for certain situations around the greens, another example. My 52 degree is pretty much my 100 yard club. My 54 and 58 have specific uses and used for different kinds of shotmaking. Hardly a "science" vs. "art" debate, and hardly mutually exclusive.

> > >

> > > The fact you think people are gapping their wedges based on full swing distances suggests you may benefit from a little more thought and study.

> > >

> > > Use as many or as few wedges as you like, whatever works, but the thread starter here is pretty weak.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Exactly and as soon as you start hitting partial shots you lose stopping power. Obviously there is a time and a place when its ok or even desired (wind) but why you would want to sacrifice “scoring” clubs is beyond me.

>

>

 

Perceptions and reality are two different things, any launch monitor would tell you full shots land with higher descent as well as more spin- equals more stopping power. You may mot need it where you play, but there are places- fast and firm greens, where its needed. I am a scratch golfer so i guess that only applies to me ?‍♂️

 

[boggyman]

I don’t need a launch monitor to tell me a full shot will land from higher descent with stopping power, that should be logic, especially over “some” less than full wedge shots. I understand your post 100% and agree with it, other than the part about it allot I g to you since you are scratch. Hats off to you on being scratch by the way. to > @Red4282 said:

> > @boggyman said:

> > I hit partial shots all the time, even with a pitching wedge that does not lose stopping power. Unless one is a scratch golfer or pro playing for a living, golf is highly overthought. > @Red4282 said:

> > > > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > > > @Ripken08 said:

> > > > > I read this over and over on the forums. I am speaking of sets with new technology like cup faces with a PW of 45 degrees. People saying so many gaps with their wedges etc etc. Some of you crazies carry 4 or 5 wedges! Why? Because you want a 125, 115, 105, 95 yd club?

> > > > > I have 4 now counting my PW, but could easily replace my 54/58 with a 56.

> > > > > Here is my take. Those who claim to have gaps or carry a bazillion wedges...it comes down to two things:

> > > > > 1) course management - put your shot at a comfortable distance if you need a full swing

> > > > > 2) learn to hit varieties of shots with partial swings with a few wedges and become a better golfer

> > > > >

> > > > > Rant over...:)

> > > >

> > > > Pointless rant from someone with 4 wedges who hasn't replaced his 54/58 (but could easily do so, lol). Maybe get rid of your 5-7-9 irons, also.

> > > >

> > > > Some of us have become better golfers understanding the value of different wedges with different bounce angles, as one example. Using different lofts and different shots with those clubs for certain situations around the greens, another example. My 52 degree is pretty much my 100 yard club. My 54 and 58 have specific uses and used for different kinds of shotmaking. Hardly a "science" vs. "art" debate, and hardly mutually exclusive.

> > > >

> > > > The fact you think people are gapping their wedges based on full swing distances suggests you may benefit from a little more thought and study.

> > > >

> > > > Use as many or as few wedges as you like, whatever works, but the thread starter here is pretty weak.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Exactly and as soon as you start hitting partial shots you lose stopping power. Obviously there is a time and a place when its ok or even desired (wind) but why you would want to sacrifice “scoring” clubs is beyond me.

> >

> >

>

> Perceptions and reality are two different things, any launch monitor would tell you full shots land with higher descent as well as more spin- equals more stopping power. You may mot need it where you play, but there are places- fast and firm greens, where its needed. I am a scratch golfer so i guess that only applies to me ?‍♂️

>

 

 

[Tree Levino]

> @boggyman said:

> I hit partial shots all the time, even with a pitching wedge that does not lose stopping power. Unless one is a scratch golfer or pro playing for a living, golf is highly overthought. > @Red4282 said:

> > > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > > @Ripken08 said:

> > > > I read this over and over on the forums. I am speaking of sets with new technology like cup faces with a PW of 45 degrees. People saying so many gaps with their wedges etc etc. Some of you crazies carry 4 or 5 wedges! Why? Because you want a 125, 115, 105, 95 yd club?

> > > > I have 4 now counting my PW, but could easily replace my 54/58 with a 56.

> > > > Here is my take. Those who claim to have gaps or carry a bazillion wedges...it comes down to two things:

> > > > 1) course management - put your shot at a comfortable distance if you need a full swing

> > > > 2) learn to hit varieties of shots with partial swings with a few wedges and become a better golfer

> > > >

> > > > Rant over...:)

> > >

> > > Pointless rant from someone with 4 wedges who hasn't replaced his 54/58 (but could easily do so, lol). Maybe get rid of your 5-7-9 irons, also.

> > >

> > > Some of us have become better golfers understanding the value of different wedges with different bounce angles, as one example. Using different lofts and different shots with those clubs for certain situations around the greens, another example. My 52 degree is pretty much my 100 yard club. My 54 and 58 have specific uses and used for different kinds of shotmaking. Hardly a "science" vs. "art" debate, and hardly mutually exclusive.

> > >

> > > The fact you think people are gapping their wedges based on full swing distances suggests you may benefit from a little more thought and study.

> > >

> > > Use as many or as few wedges as you like, whatever works, but the thread starter here is pretty weak.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Exactly and as soon as you start hitting partial shots you lose stopping power. Obviously there is a time and a place when its ok or even desired (wind) but why you would want to sacrifice “scoring” clubs is beyond me.

>

>

 

If you aren't thinking about it you aren't going to improve. I too hit a bunch of partial shots. If I have a front pin at 110 I'm going to hit a full 56 and try to suck it back a few yards to hit that number. Most of the time though for a middle or back pin, the consistency of hitting a little 52 is going to get me close more often as there is less room for error. You can stop it dead but you won't get the same backspin as a full shot. If you have the distance in you, I think the more traditional lofts are better. My 35 degree 7 iron is 180 carry for me. I don't all my clubs going longer as it's going to cause me to start hitting a bunch of funky partials with long irons which I don't like doing as much. If your 4 or 5 iron is your 180 club I can see wanting to push everything back. Everyone is playing their own game.

[boggyman]

100% see where you’re coming from with this post. Also agree 100% with you!!> @balls_deep said:

> > @boggyman said:

> > I hit partial shots all the time, even with a pitching wedge that does not lose stopping power. Unless one is a scratch golfer or pro playing for a living, golf is highly overthought. > @Red4282 said:

> > > > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > > > @Ripken08 said:

> > > > > I read this over and over on the forums. I am speaking of sets with new technology like cup faces with a PW of 45 degrees. People saying so many gaps with their wedges etc etc. Some of you crazies carry 4 or 5 wedges! Why? Because you want a 125, 115, 105, 95 yd club?

> > > > > I have 4 now counting my PW, but could easily replace my 54/58 with a 56.

> > > > > Here is my take. Those who claim to have gaps or carry a bazillion wedges...it comes down to two things:

> > > > > 1) course management - put your shot at a comfortable distance if you need a full swing

> > > > > 2) learn to hit varieties of shots with partial swings with a few wedges and become a better golfer

> > > > >

> > > > > Rant over...:)

> > > >

> > > > Pointless rant from someone with 4 wedges who hasn't replaced his 54/58 (but could easily do so, lol). Maybe get rid of your 5-7-9 irons, also.

> > > >

> > > > Some of us have become better golfers understanding the value of different wedges with different bounce angles, as one example. Using different lofts and different shots with those clubs for certain situations around the greens, another example. My 52 degree is pretty much my 100 yard club. My 54 and 58 have specific uses and used for different kinds of shotmaking. Hardly a "science" vs. "art" debate, and hardly mutually exclusive.

> > > >

> > > > The fact you think people are gapping their wedges based on full swing distances suggests you may benefit from a little more thought and study.

> > > >

> > > > Use as many or as few wedges as you like, whatever works, but the thread starter here is pretty weak.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Exactly and as soon as you start hitting partial shots you lose stopping power. Obviously there is a time and a place when its ok or even desired (wind) but why you would want to sacrifice “scoring” clubs is beyond me.

> >

> >

>

> If you aren't thinking about it you aren't going to improve. I too hit a bunch of partial shots. If I have a front pin at 110 I'm going to hit a full 56 and try to suck it back a few yards to hit that number. Most of the time though for a middle or back pin, the consistency of hitting a little 52 is going to get me close more often as there is less room for error. You can stop it dead but you won't get the same backspin as a full shot. If you have the distance in you, I think the more traditional lofts are better. My 35 degree 7 iron is 180 carry for me. I don't all my clubs going longer as it's going to cause me to start hitting a bunch of funky partials with long irons which I don't like doing as much. If your 4 or 5 iron is your 180 club I can see wanting to push everything back. Everyone is playing their own game.

 

 

[mantan]

> @Bomber_11 said:

> Sometimes I go play w/ just one wedge (besides PW)

>

> sometimes it's my 52, other times my 60. Fewer options A. makes you more decisive and B. teaches you that you can hit a whole host of shots w/ one wedge.

>

> Paralysis by Analysis is a real thing. having to choose between a 46, 50, 54, or 58 for a 30 yard pitch is a mess..

I was one of those guys and it totally ended up being paralysis by analysis. My instructor talked me into trying the Jason Day/Steve Stricker dead hand wedge shot for partial wedges. For a player like me who overthought things, it was a fantastic change. I've become much more of a 'feel' player at those distances. Instead of trying to use a clock method and different clubs, I hit my sand wedge for 80% of my shots between 25 and 90 yards. I'll take a gap or pitching wedge when it's big longer or windy. It's literally about hitting a ball to a target instead of obsessing over multiple wedges for different distances.

[wfrogge1]

> @Ripken08 said:

> I read this over and over on the forums. I am speaking of sets with new technology like cup faces with a PW of 45 degrees. People saying so many gaps with their wedges etc etc. Some of you crazies carry 4 or 5 wedges! Why? Because you want a 125, 115, 105, 95 yd club?

> I have 4 now counting my PW, but could easily replace my 54/58 with a 56.

> Here is my take. Those who claim to have gaps or carry a bazillion wedges...it comes down to two things:

> 1) course management - put your shot at a comfortable distance if you need a full swing

> 2) learn to hit varieties of shots with partial swings with a few wedges and become a better golfer

>

> Rant over...:)

 

That indicator on the bottom of your club (PW, SW, LW, is not an industry standard. If you need 4 wedges to fill distance gaps than so be it. Why does it bother you what others carry in their bag?

[jblough99]

My problem with the new trend in high tech irons isn’t so much the wedge gapping but the iron gapping itself, what I mean is a lot of these sets have 5 degree gaps between clubs from 7 iron down instead of the normal 4. Throw in the hotter faces and I’m seeing 20+ yard gaps between clubs. I don’t need that in my scoring irons. This is the main reason I steer clear of this type of iron, would like the extra forgiveness but can’t get the gaps to work.

[Carolina Golfer 2]

> @agolf1 said:

> The problem described here seems to be someone with like a G700 PW (44) and then a 52-56-60 Vokey combo. Obviously, there will be a huge gap and better players would probably never load up their bag with something like this.

>

> I think the person playing the G700s should probably just play them through the GW (49). Then they should be able to get by with two "wedges." 56-60 may be too big of a gap but 52-58 or 54-60 should work fine. Just treat the GW as an old PW, and everything is OK.

 

I have the G700 and play a 50, 54, 58 setup. I don't have any issue.

My stock PW is 105 my stock 50 is 85 to 90. If I have 100 yards I just take a little off the GW.

[ChipNRun]

> @"North Butte" said:

> > @ChipNRun said:

> > ... Some people who carry 4 (or 5) wedges use some sort of Pelz-style wedge matrix.

> >

> Different things work for different people, for sure. But speaking only for myself if I tried something like the Pelz "matrix" thing, it would drive me *crazy*.

No disagreement here. I use semi-Pelz, others don't: I earlier mentioned the short-game hotshot pro who considers all shots inside 50 yards as "feel shots."

 

> @Red4282 said:

> > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > Some of us have become better golfers understanding the value of different wedges with different bounce angles, as one example. Using different lofts and different shots with those clubs for certain situations around the greens, another example. ...

> Exactly and as soon as **you start hitting partial shots you lose stopping power**. Obviously there is a time and a place when its ok or even desired (wind) but why you would want to sacrifice “scoring” clubs is beyond me.

Depends a lot on how much backspin the golfer generates. Many golfers play their SW and/or LW with softstepped or softer tip shafts to ensure more spin on partial shots.

 

Besides length of swing, wedge stopping power is influenced by: type of ball / shaft characteristics / ballstriking of golfer / turf conditions.

 

Also... data from _Lowest Score Wins_ shows that people are more likely to hit the green from 50 yards out than 100 yards out. Given, there's are times when 100 yards out with full shot spin is preferable to 50 yards out. At one short par 4 at my course, a long driver can leave you 60 yards out on a sidehill lie with diagonal shot over a deep bunker. A full shot from 120 yards out will be off the flat fairway, and give you more spin going into a shallow green.

 

But going into a **friendly** green a 50-yd. shot is preferable to a 100-yd. shot.

 

[Red4282]

> @ChipNRun said:

> > @"North Butte" said:

> > > @ChipNRun said:

> > > ... Some people who carry 4 (or 5) wedges use some sort of Pelz-style wedge matrix.

> > >

> > Different things work for different people, for sure. But speaking only for myself if I tried something like the Pelz "matrix" thing, it would drive me *crazy*.

> No disagreement here. I use semi-Pelz, others don't: I earlier mentioned the short-game hotshot pro who considers all shots inside 50 yards as "feel shots."

>

> > @Red4282 said:

> > > @Hawkeye77 said:

> > > Some of us have become better golfers understanding the value of different wedges with different bounce angles, as one example. Using different lofts and different shots with those clubs for certain situations around the greens, another example. ...

> > Exactly and as soon as **you start hitting partial shots you lose stopping power**. Obviously there is a time and a place when its ok or even desired (wind) but why you would want to sacrifice “scoring” clubs is beyond me.

> Depends a lot on how much backspin the golfer generates. Many golfers play their SW and/or LW with softstepped or softer tip shafts to ensure more spin on partial shots.

>

> Besides length of swing, wedge stopping power is influenced by: type of ball / shaft characteristics / ballstriking of golfer / turf conditions.

>

> Also... data from _Lowest Score Wins_ shows that people are more likely to hit the green from 50 yards out than 100 yards out. Given, there's are times when 100 yards out with full shot spin is preferable to 50 yards out. At one short par 4 at my course, a long driver can leave you 60 yards out on a sidehill lie with diagonal shot over a deep bunker. A full shot from 120 yards out will be off the flat fairway, and give you more spin going into a shallow green.

>

> But going into a **friendly** green a 50-yd. shot is preferable to a 100-yd. shot.

>

 

Well you went a little sideways from what i was talking about, nothing you said was necessarily anything i disagree with. My point is lets say you have a 42 degree pitching wedge, and you hit it 150 yards... you also only carry 2 other wedges (because according to op, many wedges not necessary and you can just hit partials). Your other two wedges are 52, and 58. Yardages for full are 52-120, 58-95. When your faced with a 130 yard shot, your only option is to hit a partial Pw. If you carry more wedges, say a 47, 52, 58. Well now thay full 47 is perfect for the 130. It will stop a whole lot better than the partial 42. 30 yard gaps in the sub 150 clubs is just asking for terrible golf imo. That was mainly what i was getting at.

 

Im also a little different in how i select and hit shots. With 12-13 yard gaps between clubs, if im ever in bewteeen two clubs i rarely hit a partial. I will select the club that gets me on the safe side of the green, if its 5-6 yards long or short thats essentially and 18 foot putt and im ok with that most of the time.

[ChipNRun]

> @Red4282 said:

> Well you went a little sideways from what i was talking about, nothing you said was necessarily anything i disagree with. My point is lets say you have a 42 degree pitching wedge, and you hit it 150 yards... you also only carry 2 other wedges (because according to op, many wedges not necessary and you can just hit partials). Your other two wedges are 52, and 58. Yardages for full are 52-120, 58-95. When your faced with a 130 yard shot, your only option is to hit a partial Pw. If you carry more wedges, say a 47, 52, 58. Well now thay full 47 is perfect for the 130. It will stop a whole lot better than the partial 42. 30 yard gaps in the sub 150 clubs is just asking for terrible golf imo. That was mainly what i was getting at.

 

You hit the ball a lot longer than I do, so you have a bit different game. My full shot distances are 48* = 98... 54* = 85... 60* = 70 (although I almost never hit a full shot with LW). My full 9i goes 120, so I choke down on 9i or deloft 48* to cover in-between gap. My three-wedge matrix gives me good distance coverage from 30 to 100 yards, although - as you noted - partials don't give full bite for tight pins. I need to pick a **landing point** short of the pin for non-lob partials. It just gets into trade-offs.

 

I see where you're going. **So, how do you handle those 50- to 70-yard wedge shots?** Partials of some sort? Rely more on feel?

[Red4282]

> @ChipNRun said:

> > @Red4282 said:

> > Well you went a little sideways from what i was talking about, nothing you said was necessarily anything i disagree with. My point is lets say you have a 42 degree pitching wedge, and you hit it 150 yards... you also only carry 2 other wedges (because according to op, many wedges not necessary and you can just hit partials). Your other two wedges are 52, and 58. Yardages for full are 52-120, 58-95. When your faced with a 130 yard shot, your only option is to hit a partial Pw. If you carry more wedges, say a 47, 52, 58. Well now thay full 47 is perfect for the 130. It will stop a whole lot better than the partial 42. 30 yard gaps in the sub 150 clubs is just asking for terrible golf imo. That was mainly what i was getting at.

>

> You hit the ball a lot longer than I do, so you have a bit different game. My full shot distances are 48* = 98... 54* = 85... 60* = 70 (although I almost never hit a full shot with LW). My full 9i goes 120, so I choke down on 9i or deloft 48* to cover in-between gap. My three-wedge matrix gives me good distance coverage from 30 to 100 yards, although - as you noted - partials don't give full bite for tight pins. I need to pick a **landing point** short of the pin for non-lob partials. It just gets into trade-offs.

>

> I see where you're going. **So, how do you handle those 50- to 70-yard wedge shots?** Partials of some sort? Rely more on feel?

 

I use a two wedge system that incorporates 4 positions in the backswing. 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, and full backswings pretty much, you have to practice this and dial in distances. It honestly takes alot of the “feel” out of the shot and is more just about hitting a certain carry distance. For me its the following:

1/4 swing:

60 deg carry : 15 yrds

54 deg carry 20

 

1/2 swing

60 carries 30

54 carries 40

 

3/4

60 carries 55

54 carries 70

 

Full

60- 85

54- 105

 

If im faced with an in between yardarge (like a 25 yard carry) Ill take the longer distance club and slightly open then face. So far its worked very well. I though about using my 50 in this system too but it gets a little more complicated with three wedges, but can be done

[BMC]

I was a very good tennis player. I hit all shots with one racquet. That carried over to golf. I use a 53 degree and a 47 PW only. No issues. Single hdcp.

 

[jjj912]

Decades ago, no one had three, four, or five wedges simply because they either didn’t exist or were not in general use. You had a PW that was 50* or a bit more and maybe also a SW, which would have been around 56*.

 

What happened? First, the lob wedge started gaining popularity, Second, the great loft migration occurred and PW loft became 48*, then 46*, or lower. So the gap wedge made an appearance. Some sets nowadays have two such wedges. For example, the Callaway Rogue X has a 46 AW and a 51 GW (PW is 41).

 

So a golfer could claim to carry 5 or even 6 wedges depending on the iron set and the highest lofted wedge carried. That said, I consider most set matching PW and GW to be a continuation of the iron set and thus don’t think of them as wedges. On an unrelated note, I think that explains much of the popularity of specialty wedges like the Vokeys - the designer recognized a need for a different club design for use around the green and built clubs accordingly.