Patrick Reed at Hero Challenge

[Hawkeye77]

That's a good point - this is actually a rules thread - a nice diversion from headphones, people cheating in scrambles and the obligatory "I just about took someone's head off with my shot, was I in the wrong?".

[Sawgrass]

8.1b (7) says you may do this legally, but only if you complete the stroke after taking this backswing.

[LeoLeo99]

PR is going to have to practice that shot.

I was watching golf channel last night in their Presidents Cup coverage say that Patrick Reed was in the middle of a cheating scandal. Nice to hear them call it like it is.

[HitEmTrue]

Then you have golf.com calling it a "rules fiasco." The article also says, "The new rules introduced in January allow players to ground their clubs in bunkers."

Ugh. Patrick Reed at center of rules fiasco after moving sand in a waste bunker

[KevCarter]

Sawgrass, thank you for posting that. I was looking it up and couldn't find an answer because I was looking at it from the side it would be a penalty. Was that a change in 2019, or was I just way off on that one?

[bladehunter]

Very interesting. I did not know the answer. But logically that makes sense if you can touch it , you can move it during a swing. Just like a log or pine needles etc.

[LeoLeo99]

Seems ripe for shenanigans.

[Sawgrass]

Kevin, I recall that's you used to be able to break an overhanging tree branch on your backswing if you then completed your swing, and this new rule seems to me to be the same concept.

 

The important issue here is that in a waste area this “backswing removal of sand” is legal if you follow through, but in a bunker it is not.

[KevCarter]

???

[Mr. Bean]

From the looks of that sandy area it is more than obvious it is a waste area and not a bunker. So touching the sand and making practice swings into the sand is perfectly ok if you do not improve your conditions of the stroke etc.

Then again, it is more than unfortunate that commentators not knowing the Rules even on a fair level take a stand on actions like that and even make it to end up in daily news. So my suggestion is that for every Rules infraction the commentators make they need to pay an amount equal to half of what they make on that particular broadcast. That should make them either learn the Rules or shut up.

[davep043]

This doesn't appear to be a new rule. This is from the 2016 version, found at www.ruleshistory.com, 12-2

"However, the player incurs no penalty if the action occurs:

in grounding the club lightly when addressing the ball,

in fairly taking his stance,

in making a stroke or the backward movement of his club for a stroke and the stroke is made,

in creating or eliminating irregularities of surface within the teeing ground or in removing dew, frost or water from the teeing ground, or

on the putting green in removing sand and loose soil or in repairing damage (Rule 16-1)."

[KevCarter]

Thank you Dave for the clarification. I just can't trust my memory anymore. Hate getting older...

Cheers

[Mr. Bean]

I believe this is exactly what Sawgrass meant and it is indeed coherent with the Rules of Golf 2018 as well as some years before.

I would dig up the appropriate Rule from last year but I am actively trying to forget the numbers so I will not do it but I am sure you will find the Rule under the old Rule 13...

[LeoLeo99]

I seem to remember an lpga player being penalized for moving a few grains of sand on her backswing a couple years ago. High definition TV replay, etc.

[davep043]

That was in a bunker, not the general area (or through the green at that time). Touching the sand during the backswing in a bunker was, and still is, against the rules.

[Newby]

Michelle Wie caught a small piece of turf on her backswing in a bunker some years ago. Royal Lytham or Birkdale I think

[Hawkeye77]

Yep, when she was 16. Small piece of moss/dirt, admitted later when penalized she didn't know the rule well enough.

[davep043]

The one I remember was Anna Nordquist at the 2016 US Open, where she touched 3 or 4 grains of sand when preparing to hit a bunker shot. I believe this instance was at least partly responsible for the decision in 2017, that a player would not be penalized if the infraction couldn't be reasonably seen with the naked eye.

[DaveLeeNC]

Maybe I am wrong here, but I do NOT think that is the right hole. I believe that it is the 11th as shown here

dave

[LeoLeo99]

Card linked the video when Reed did some shenanigans previously. Seems to be a trend.

[LeoLeo99]

Yes, that's the example I was thinking of.

[cardoustie]

Yup Uncle Cardy was pointing out a similar incident from round 2 ... though not as much sand scraping, going on

Just showing a pattern and that he is doing this stuff intentionally because I would hope ... HE DIDN'T KNOW THE RULE .. which he should be using as his defense (not that "I didn't know i moved sand")