Dean Snell's Video on the Distance debate

[bigred90gt]

The courses they play today are all 7000-7500 yards (estimated of course). Rolling back distance will eliminate the shorter guys on al but the shortest courses they play. They’re not going to start playing different courses just because the ball is rolled back. Most of the shorter courses some people want to see played just simply cannot support the infrastructure requirements of a tour stop. The only option then would be to play shorter tees, which would offset the reduced distance and make it completely pointless at the “elite” level, thereby only truly affecting the average golfer, who is the last person that needs to feel the effects of a stupid decision like rolling back distance.

[mahonie]

The 7500 yard courses...aren’t they all TPC courses owned, run and profiteered by the PGA Tour? Bit of a coincidence that don’t ya think?

[Ashley Schaeffer]

Hold up. Are you saying the organization that conducts the PGA Tour decides to hold tournaments on courses that it owns? The next thing you know, the Texas Longhorns are going to want to host home games right there in the stadium on campus.

[mahonie]

I suppose my point is that the whole distance debate can be parked at the door of the PGA Tour who continue to peddle ‘distance’ as entertainment...90% of the golfing world finds ‘distance’ as really boring...just so you know ;-)

[Ashley Schaeffer]

I agree the PGA Tour should be the entity handling professional golf on the PGA Tour.

I’m also interested to learn that 90% of the golfing world finds distance really boring. That’s an enlightening study.

[mahonie]

I did a snap poll of my golfing buddies...9/10 stated that PGA Tour televised events are boring and they won’t watch anymore ;-)

[Ashley Schaeffer]

That’s all the proof we need. That settles it. The PGA Tour should know this info. I heard it is hurting in the revenue department.

[mahonie]

When you’d rather watch re-runs of ‘Stranger Things’ with your kids than the Arnold Palmer Invitational, it should tell you everything you need to know ;-)

[15th Club]

Let’s talk about televised golf.

That’s the PGA Tour; some other tours occasionally; the national championships; occasionally LPGA golf.

Now let’s think about the most interesting, compelling, memorable, talked-about shots in the history of televised golf...

The Nicklaus 1-iron at Pebble in 1972.

Trevino chipping in twice at Muirfield the same summer.

Larry Mize in the playoff with Norman at ANGC #11.

A catalog of other Masters heroics: Jack’s “Bear Tracks putt; his tee shot in ‘86. The Tiger U-turn chip in from long and left. Jack on 17 in 1986; Sandy Lyle from the fairway bunker on 18. Mickelson between the trees on 13. Couples’ “Oh baby” approach on 13.

And on and on. Azinger, and Tway, holing bunker shots to win a Memorial and a PGA Championship respectively. Tiger’s unthinkable bunker shot from the fairway in the Canadian Open. Jerry Pate’s 5-iron. Gary Player’s 9-iron. David Thoms’ 5-wood.

I cannot think of any memorable long drives. There was Palmer’s at Cherry Hills, which was basically most memorable because of its relationship to the 10th hole itself.

The drives that are most memorable are most often memorable as disasters. Mickelson at Winged Foot. Weiskopf on 10 at Augusta.

Or else they are memorable because they bounce and roll on a firm and fast links course.

All of golf’s most memorable shots are memorable because they relate powerfully and dramatically to the golf course. The green complexes. Breaks, bumps, rolls, hole locations.

Simple, pure, unrelatable distance for the sake of distance is completely forgettable.

[deadsolid...shank]

The single best shot (and mot memorable to me) is Tiger’s six iron out of the bunker from 200 or something out. Over water if I remember. I don’t even remember the course. Because the course had nothing to do with it.

Jack’s one iron? Of course we remember the course, because it was a US Open and Pebble Beach. But when you one hop it into the flag stick, into the wind, with a one iron.....it doesn’t make a bit of difference what course it was hit on.

Great shots are memorable because of the shot, not the course.

[Ashley Schaeffer]

It's interesting, and perhaps very telling, that most of your "memorable shots" occurred long ago. That said, as far as drives go (pun intended), I remember most of these:

https://youtu.be/or34HUCNS4Q

Do you watch very much golf on TV?

[mahonie]

Probably because no one hits memorable shots anymore (boring golf?)...except perhaps Tiger's fairway bunker shot on 14 from Mexico last year?

[Ashley Schaeffer]

Maybe tennis, then? Lawn bowling?

[oikos1]

Might tell you more about yourself than the game of golf.

[jb93]

Tour Only - Driver length maximum of 43", minimum loft of 10.5, minimum overall weight that would force use of shaft weights closer to 100g. Same approach on fairway woods and hybrids. Lengths and lofts back to earlier standards and minimum overall club weight. Everything else can be max performance equipment guys can concoct. Irons left alone and let their technology advance normally.

[Mudguard]

I don't see the point in limiting shaft length. I think there is already a limit at 46", isn't the tour average 44" anyway?

[storm319]

Limit is 48”, but I think the USGA proposed a rollback to 46.5” a few years ago but not sure what happened with that. Either way it wouldn’t make a difference as nearly all pros are under that anyways.

[rangersgoalie]

As golfers get taller on average

shortening clubs arbitrarily seems a bit much

 

and I’m beyond short so.....

[jb93]

So no one replied w thoughts on combo of length, weight and loft. My thinking was several minor limits that slow down swing speed but don’t mess up mfr Marketability of public version same driver. Length was just one part of thought

[dlygrisse]

the “Problem” as I see it, is that the long hitters are 40 to 50 yards longer while the shorter hitters are 10 to 20 yards longer. The rich got richer.

make the ball spin like a tour balata and the problem is solved. The longer hitters would have to learn how to control spin again, and the shorter hitters would be able to keep the ball in the air. Shotmaking would return, playing in the wind especially would take more skill and the game would be better for all. The longer hitters would lose a lot of distance and the shorter hitters just a little, still leaving the longer hitters with a distance advantage but within reason.

 

Snell is right in that you used to have to make a choice. Did you play a distance ball that didn’t spin with either the woods or irons or did you play a ball that spun with all clubs. Now days you can have your cake and eat it too.

[farmer]

Ah, 15, Arnie's drive at Cherry Hills was on the first hole. I don't understand the relationship with the tenth hole. There is no reason to continue the fight. You want all golf to be on a links course, Geoff Shackleford is God , and equipment should be equivalent to 1995. Everyone else is not only wrong, but wrong headed.

Mahonie, now you're just trolling.

15, if you want to have a fight, start a blog. I would like you to adopt a different tone if you're going to hammer the same point over an over.

[mahonie]

I think the phrase is ‘Demi-gorgonning’ ;-)

[mahonie]

Similarly, tennis got boring when the power game took over. Crown green bowls...now you’re talking...at least the skill of shotmaking is preserved. Nothing like a long forehand draw nestling up against the jack ;-)

[Titan2113]

I think he already does...it’s called GeoffShackeldford.com

[Go_Blue!]

Let's make the sprinters who are too fast where some heavier shoes at the Olympics while we are at it! Phelps should have had to wear a life jacket too! This argument is priceless. Dollars to donuts all these people crying about distance are the ones who dont have the distance in their game and that's not fair to them because others do. Typical society today.

15, you ask what drives are memorable. What is memorable for me, and I admit this is personal, is watching the speed and form of some of the best guys off the tee. I cant get enough of watching Rory and that beautiful swing rip driver, or watching DJ's flexibility rip it. It is such an incredible gift to swing at that speed with that form and mobility. Some may even call it athletic. But you're right, all of the years of fitness and practice for them to be able to do that is just not fair because others cant do it. Unreal.

Some people are born with gifts. Some of these gifts are athletic ability that allows people to do things better than others. That doesnt mean we lower standards to fit the lowest common denominators. Ball speed directly relates to distance. It's proven you can work to get your ball speed #s up through swing speed. If the short hitters want to hit it farther then here is a concept...put the work in. Again, the ability to swing at those speeds with that control is a skill. Limiting the amount of skill from game seems counterproductive when we want to see the best.

[gvogel]

Well, there was Rory's driver on the first hole, final round of the Canadian Open last year where he nearly drove the green, putting the pedal to the metal and taking that tournament by the scruff of the neck, so to speak!

[Maximilian]

You have missed the point of a potential ball rollback. It’s not intended to level the playing field in anyway. The purpose would be to stop golf courses from becoming larger and larger.

[Go_Blue!]

Why do courses need to be longer?

[Maximilian]

That has been debated endlessly and I have no desire to get into that. But the reality is that most tournament courses are indeed getting longer and longer.

[gvogel]

Good point. It's the 13th hole at Augusta National, in a nutshell.