Girls Driving Distances

[MB19]

--Why post 2018 when you can post 2019 as a relevant set of data to speak to the current state of a tour's scoring?

--Haven't been to a regional event yet, but a couple are driving distance for dozens of 8/9 girls in FL--including mine. I expect we will play one in the fall.

--Two dads in our group had GPS and generously shared distances.

--I may or may not activate the Arccos sitting in my closet for Sunday's local, but will at some point.

--The average score for FL in 2019 was 46.8. Stuart averaged 41.3, Miami 43.3, Boca 43.4, Northwest FL 44.5, Naples 47.6, Orlando 48.5, Tampa 50.4, JAX 51.9.

--The use of the word cabal, in modern writing, is rarely used in a positive light. Conspiracy and scheme are synonyms of this word.

 

With the much more current data I've presented, I believe we've exhausted the scoring line of conversation. Regarding driving averages, neither of us seem to have complete information regarding the subject. Our average experience in playing in Stuart, Space Coast, West Palm, Boca and NWFL in USKG tournaments--home to some of the lowest average scores in the country.

Forgive me for thinking a 150 yard drive will be closer to average than 130 yard drive for girls 8/9, because every week we will be going up against multiple kids who have won a regional, qualified for for DCP Finals, medaled at Worlds, or come within sneezing distance of those benchmarks. This week, we get to play against a girl who came in T2 for 9's at Worlds. She shot two-under from 1820 last tournament playing 10-11, and I'm real curious how she hits off the tee.

[JuniorGolfParent]

Yes we have exhausted the topic. You keep asking why someone does something, ignoring the multiple times they respond explaining to you.

I'm glad you finally calculated the 2019 scores yourself - did you learn anything? How many scores were there total? What is the standard deviation of those scores? Is 48.3 statistically significant vs 46.8 (assuming that's the average - did you include weather-shortened scores that were in the 20s for 9 holes)? Did you notice how the best players play the most tournaments, and that a handful of players disproportionately lower the average? Do you wonder what the actual average would be among all participants if you simply took a single average score (among all tournaments played by an individual) and averaged those - i.e. one score per unique person? (Answer: it would be a lot higher).

And you are absolutely correct - I think the fact that you play with the world beaters you gratuitously mention over and over (it's actually not helping your cause when talking about performance of an "average" golfer") seriously skews your judgment in trying to have an understanding of what is typical across the country. Go to a Regional, but even more important, go to one of the Local Tours you listed with higher scores and see what level of golf is being played - maybe you will have a better understanding of what the "average" is. This is most likely why you and others keep overreacting to my simple comment "The average score for 8-9 Girls for 9 hole US Kids Local events is around 50. FL and CA are close to that figure as well."

So definitely do get a broader perspective, unless, as HH says, you want to change the narrative (which is ironic because he's the one that did so, changing his tune from "that can't be the average score" to "well that's not a score needed to be competitive").

 

Here's what google says when you search for "cabal synonym" (since you obviously don't think the definition in the dictionary is relevant:

cabal noun a secret political clique or faction.

Similar clique faction coterie group set band party camp gang ring cell sect caucus league confederacy junta pressure group ginger group push junto camarilla

You seem very sensitive about this word - are you a part of the HH cabal?

[JuniorGolfParent]

BTW, I spot checked your scores. I pulled up all 2019 scores for Stuart Local Tour. the average is 42.6, not 41.3

Here are the scores: 35,36,36,39,39,40,41,38,39,39,42,44,48,52,34,36,38,41,42,44,45,54,34,37,39,40,41,41,45,49,36,37,40,41,47,47,49,38,39,40,44,47,52,37,41,62,64,36,38,43,46,46,36,37,49,46,50,38,38,46,49,51,35,36,47,53,37,38,48,49

I wonder what other errors you made in your analysis?

[MB19]

I asked why you wanted to go with the 2018 data, but it was clear you did so to strengthen your position.

There were 657 total scores. If you want more stats, have at it. I did not include incomplete tournaments.

The best players don't always play the most USKG tournaments, but many of the best ones play year-round for sure.

There was nothing bizzare about the data I found. I told you Stuart/Boca/West Palm/Miami were going to have a significantly lower average than you suspected--and I was right.

Your original claim that FL (and CA) are close to 50 for scoring average. Then you post 48.3 as average in 2018, claim you were right. I post the most recent and complete data year, 2019, and show you a 46.8 average. Boca and Stuart--the two lowest-scoring tours in the state last year--are not running right now due to COVID rescheduling, so anything statewide more current would be skewed-high. There are several golfers who shoot high 30's/low 40's who are not playing in tournaments right now who live in SFL.

Going to a regional would be similar to going to a local tournament in terms of skill level and possibly even numbers. The Holiday Classic, held about 50 min from my house pending traffic, had an eight-girl field of 8-y.o. girls back in DEC who scored from 35-41. The Stuart Winter Championship was a seven-girl field of 8-9's who scored--you guessed it--from 35-41. Let's try the PGA Golf Club Invitational for 8's, which is even closer to me. This was a seven-girl field, shooting 79-95 over two rounds. Scores from the last Space Coast Tournament--36, 39, 40, 44, 48 and 64. The same girl came in second in both tournaments, posting similar scores. What understanding am I to gain from that?

I suppose I could drive three hours to Jacksonville or Tampa to give my daughter a real shot to medal in a local tournament, but I consider it a blessing she gets to start off competing against deep fields.

Thank you for clearly showing how negative the word cabal can be taken.

Should I take your last question as a personal attack?

[JuniorGolfParent]

Another error: Miami is 43.5

39,39,39,45,63,40,41,41,55,38,48,49,42,43,45,48,36,38,42,61,37,39,42,46,58,35,41,42,43,35,40,43,45,41,41,49,39,41,45,54,36,38,43,48,53,33,37,41,43,49,40,41,53

Maybe your calculator is broken? Do I need to check the rest?

BTW, Miami went from 128 total individual scores in 2018 to 53 in 2019. Can we trust the smaller sample size?????

[JuniorGolfParent]

What about West Palm Beach - did you include that (not listed above)?

[JuniorGolfParent]

For the third time, I didn’t calculate 2019 because the cabal said they were doing it. No one posted the full year 2019 score average until you did yourself (perhaps due to my needling?) You are unhappy no one posted 2019? Blame them.

But given the multiple errors I have found in your calculations in just the two Local Tours I have spot checked, maybe I will take the time to do full year 2019, and maybe do a brief writeup on statistical significance.

[MB19]

Glad you double-checked and caught my Stuart error. It is still the lowest-scoring tour in FL.

Feel free to check the whole thing, as the last thing I wanted to do with my morning was pour over past local results.

[MB19]

Off to practice with the kids while you crunch numbers.

I'm uncertain why you feel the need to be condescending on a junior golf forum.

[MB19]

West Palm and Boca are lumped together--feel free split them up.

[JuniorGolfParent]

I might check the rest, given 2 for 2 in errors.

And regarding tone, maybe it’s because you keep asking the same question over and over and seem to be insinuating I didn’t do what you asked because of ill intent?

[JuniorGolfParent]

Another error: Miami is 43.5

39,39,39,45,63,40,41,41,55,38,48,49,42,43,45,48,36,38,42,61,37,39,42,46,58,35,41,42,43,35,40,43,45,41,41,49,39,41,45,54,36,38,43,48,53,33,37,41,43,49,40,41,53

BTW, Miami went from 128 total individual scores in 2018 with 46.5 average to 53 scores in 2019 with 43.5 average. Which one do you think is likely more accurate - the one with higher sample size or much lower sample size?

[JuniorGolfParent]

Another error: Miami is 43.5

39,39,39,45,63,40,41,41,55,38,48,49,42,43,45,48,36,38,42,61,37,39,42,46,58,35,41,42,43,35,40,43,45,41,41,49,39,41,45,54,36,38,43,48,53,33,37,41,43,49,40,41,53

BTW, Miami went from 128 total individual scores in 2018 with 46.5 average to 53 scores in 2019 with 43.5 average. Which one do you think is likely more accurate - the one with higher sample size or much lower sample size?

[MB19]

You do you.

Post what you find.

This is probably the last time we'll interact because of said tone.

[JuniorGolfParent]

How else should one interpret “I asked why you wanted to go with the 2018 data, but it was clear you did so to strengthen your position.”

Do you honestly think I had the 2019 numbers but didn’t post them and instead used 2018 to be slightly higher and closer to 50 to strengthen my position? Even though I responded to your posts multiple times explaining why I didn’t use 2019? I am reading posts carefully before responding so as not to misunderstand what someone is saying - are you?

Then you wonder why I am not deferentially 100% polite to you even though you basically hinted that I was being dishonest?

And you then post erroneous stats/data (2 for 2) and shrug it off, and even try to insinuate that you were right anyway?

At least I didn’t assume you purposely made the error to “strengthen your position.” If you’d like to discuss further (which I am sure we both hope you do not) please DM me.

 

[heavy_hitter]

You mean the tone that he thinks he is right, but in actuality is wrong all in order to prove that an 8 year old kid is above average? I really don't care what kind of pill someone wants to swallow, but I tend to live in reality.

[JuniorGolfParent]

Are you still commenting in this thread? Haven’t you displayed enough lack of consistency to give yourself pause?

I think this goes without saying to anyone who is actually reading this thread: you have added very little to this entire discussion. Go back and read your comments. Little data (you selectively posted various Local Tour averages for a single season, not even full year), misreading or purposely misinterpreting (to be argumentative?) certain posts, flawed anecdotes with very poor attention to detail (the kid from MS did not come in last at Worlds in 2017 the year your son came in 75th, and he did not score triple digits all 3 days - are we to take your word for it that his family thought he was going to win?) and flip flopping on views (1.5 years ago 180 “is real high even for boys” and now “The average 9 year old boy is going to be around 180ish.”) Also, switching the narrative from “FL scores can’t be that high” to “those scores aren’t competitive - just bc you compete doesn’t make you competitive” (paraphrased)

At least MB19 has given us data points he has observed and anecdotes - your responses are basically taking sides and cheerleading/exaggerating or trolling.

As someone who actually cares about details, I am done with this discussion.

 

[leezer99]

If you actually care to learn about girls golf you might want to reconsider your tone towards a parent with a daughter playing college golf.

[JuniorGolfParent]

Is she playing college golf?

[ncalgolf]

AND.....This is why I was hesitant to join GOLFWRX - but my eyes are glued to the screen

[JuniorGolfParent]

Just to appease those who are still crying....

The average US Kids Golf Local Tour 8-9 Girls score is around 50, and approx 47 for FL.*

*not statistically different than “around 50“

Let’s get on with our lives

[BFD3]

We just started playing tournaments in Arizona and my 11 yo daughter is playing courses at 2700-2800 yds. (I had thought it was 2400-2500.) Is that typical in other states? Even with a 200 yd drive, she is hitting 3 wood in to most par 4’s.

[wildcatden]

 

 

USKids is known to be shorter in the locals/state (1800 yards per 9). Gets longer at regional/worlds (2400-2500 per 9). https://foundation.uskidsgolf.com/tournaments/info/age-groups-and-yardages

 

Par is relative although I understand that it can be disheartening to get bogey all of the time.

 

[heavy_hitter]

That is long. I would consider that distance to be a 13-15 year old distance for girl's. 11-12 year old girl's in Florida on the FJT are playing 5000 yards. 11-12 year old boys are playing 5500.

I find that most junior tournament directors do not understand proper distances. Even happens with older kids. There is a semi-national tour that called the top 50 junior golf tour. 16-18 year old boys are playing at time 7000 plus yards. Many kids won't even consider that tour because the distance is too long. They end up getting horrible fields and I would assume the biggest reason is improper distances.

[BFD3]

The 13-14 yo girls play the same tees but play 18 holes instead of 9. The silver lining is it underscores the importance of the short game.

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

Secret: No one cares what they're scoring at that age.

You still have growth spurs. Also, don't forget about the kids that will not pick up a club until they're 12-13.

 

[Ritu]

My daughter does us kids and she just turned 10 in May. She drives the ball 180-190. There are some 10 who can drive it 220 as we saw it at the European Champ. At Worlds many of the top 10 all drive it 170-210 outside of the rare expectation. We also play kids who are 130-170 at locals. Things are changing.

My daughter is not small 5 ft 1 and maybe 115 lbs. A better driver and more rotation work we can likely go to 200 now.

 

Many kids we know age 12-13 are all around 210-240.

 

Look at some recent drive chip putt drive scores by age that is a good indication.

[leezer99]

11 hours ago, Ritu said:

Look at some recent drive chip putt drive scores by age that is a good indication.

[Medson]

5 hours ago, leezer99 said:

Here we go. 5 more pages! 5 more pages!

 

[darter79]

On 7/10/2022 at 6:57 AM, Ritu said:

My daughter does us kids and she just turned 10 in May. She drives the ball 180-190. There are some 10 who can drive it 220 as we saw it at the European Champ. At Worlds many of the top 10 all drive it 170-210 outside of the rare expectation. We also play kids who are 130-170 at locals. Things are changing.

My daughter is not small 5 ft 1 and maybe 115 lbs. A better driver and more rotation work we can likely go to 200 now.

 

Many kids we know age 12-13 are all around 210-240.

 

Look at some recent drive chip putt drive scores by age that is a good indication.

using the euro champ where the ball runs out forever says a lot. I know the girls who won girls 10 specifically used an 8 degree head to max runout. They are at img now using a 46' driver yes she is 10. I will leave that one alone. 

 

At worlds 10 you wont see many over 200 there is a few at best.  I can think of 3 off top of my head from last year worlds (could also be b/c how soft the course was, thick rough last year too). My daughter is 11 for reference. 11-13 you have 2 types girls hitting the ball and grown women hitting the ball. There is such a huge variance there. Same even at 11. I know a few that have gone full developed smoke it. Some who haven't hit it well but lack some of the distance due to that. wayyy too many variables at that age

 

DCP is a joke to compare anything to. A small tiny kid I know hit it 250 why because it was downhill downwind on a burnt out driving range. ball will roll forever.