Cleveland smart sole chipper vs dedicated chipper

[Oqvist]

Maybe there is no real difference how they are operated just looking for reassurance the smart sole chipper is just as easy with the putting stroke. My hope is with a much better feel closer to a proper wedge and be able to use also in worse lies and maybe as rescue but to be honest closest to the hole on supposedly easy chip wins.

I dont have problem practise but get mental blocks on course and I dont really appreciate this part of the game. I cant live with myself everytime I duff a chip or overshoot because being desperate for a solid impact. My cheap putter stroke chipper made me a believer but the range is quite limited and there is better out there maybe better then smart sole?

 

[cadoipi]

If you have not already, then perhaps practice using a putting stroke with a short iron. Get the heel of the club off the ground (so the shaft makes a 70 degree angle with the ground like a putter) and contact the ball near the toe part of the face.

[Joelsim]

Try putting the ball slightly forward of Centre, slight shaft lean so hands slightly in front of the ball, do a little forward press to initiate the stroke and MAKE SURE you use your torso not your arms.

 

Try it before buying a chipper inside on carpet, just repeat and get some confidence. Start off with your PW and gradually work through your bag.

[xkilgorextroutx]

I have a Smart Sole S and I really like it. The biggest issue with any club like that, though, is that it's a one trick pony. You're losing a slot in the bag that can be used for a club you can pull in multiple situations. I'm garbage out of the sand so I'm OK with having the Smart Sole in the bag, and I use my 54 for anything else I'd pull a high lofted wedge for.

[Oqvist]

Yeah that is the one reason why my chipper has not been in the bag for a while. Short range and thick rough and bad lies is dangerous with that as well. But I will sacrifice my 45 degree pw for it is the plan. I realise I hardly ever use it. I am loosing so many strokes due to chipping it´s bunkers. pun intended. I am quite good getting the ball into chipping range but then oh christ... But I play so much golf my wrists and back is numb so its hard to get a feel for the clubs. Full swings this don´t stop me though.

Chipping with just the toe is one experiment I have not done yet. Will see how that works out but I would love to be able to have some backspin so I can control the distance a bit better.

[Oqvist]

Got my Cleveland Smart Sole C chipper today. it works better then I ever expected. I lucked out it´s custom fitted for me. Exact the same length as my putter which the stance it got me was the sole reason I got it.

Just have the perfect stance for straight arms y pendulum. 187 cm and 95 cm wrist to floor is my measurements. Can add wrist motion for added length without any issue and so much in control of things it´s insane. Clubhead is quite heavy but nothing unmanagable due to the setup.

Big difference to my old dynatour chipper this works splendidly from deep rough. It´s like a short range rescue club the massive club head is not easilly swayed by the grass and I can come down to the ball with some speed. The thick soul due to my stance give me sensational bounces. Never to early or to late just when needed. Comes from it´s so easy to maintain the head still and at the same height all the time.

Much more complex motion with my cleveland cbx 50 degree wedge. On full swing goes about the same distance as the Chipper it seems though with a more desired trajectory. But the bad swings is certainly more frequent with the cbx. Whenever I can roll the ball some into the green the chipper will likely be my go to pitcher. Very curious how it will do from bunkers. Don´t have many here so my sand wedge would not be a huge loss to replace if possible.

 

[North Butte]

I got a Smart Sole C and totally gave up on it after half a dozen rounds (plus a good bit of time around the practice green).

My conclusion was if (like Oqvist) you can use pretty much your putting setup with a club that's 34" long and 66 degrees lie then it would probably be the greatest thing since slice bread. But for me, it just can't be used that way. Two things about my putting setup don't jibe with the Smart Sole C.

First, my hand position is very high (a putter with about 78 degree lie angle fits me best) and with the rather longish blade length of the Smart Sole C the toe is hanging very, very low. To keep it from grabbing on the grass I have to hover the club off the ground and deliberately try to strike the ball about 1/2" from the toe end. Having such a long clubface and only using the outer 10% of it is the opposite of forgiving.

Second, my putting grip pressure is ridiculously light. My bottom hand hold on the putter has very slight pressure with the tips and middle of my fingers (no palm) and my upper hand barely touches the club at all. So I use a light putter and a slow stroke tempo. That's just not compatible with a club I'm trying to hit out of fringe or light rough, as soon as the toe grabs the first blade of grass it rotates in my hand or even slips.

So for me, chipping with "my putting grip and stroke" with the Smart Sole C was a lot like trying to do the same thing with a 9-iron. To make it work I have to bring my hands lower, grip it farther down in my palms, hold on tighter and move my eyeline away from directly over the ball. Once I've done all that, I find my 9-iron works just as well as the chipper. When I want to use my putting grip and stroke, I just putt from off the green with my putter. I'm pretty good at even 30-40 yard putts if there's no long grass between me and the green.

[Oqvist]

I have the same grip for my putter as my irons. If you pretend its a regular wedge you cant get the lie angle right then? I could not use high arms or grip down on it then it would not reach the ground without really bent knees. I am stiff like hell and I get the perfect lie angle when my back stops :)

 

[North Butte]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. For me it's an wedge/short-iron type club, doesn't play like a putter at all. The only way I could use it was to take a normal (non-putting) grip, address the ball like chipping with a wedge or short iron. But honestly, I can't see any different result from the Smart Sole C than with my 9-iron or PW.

That's why I think it mostly works well for people (like yourself) who don't have such a huge difference between putting and all other shots. A lot of the guys I play with set up kind of like you do, they look pretty similar getting ready to putt versus getting ready to play a pitch shot with their wedge. They kind of like my Smart Sole C and think it's strange it doesn't work for me

One guy has an outstanding short game. I mean he gets up and down more than half the time from 10 or 20 yards short of the green. He's always telling me "just putt with your 7-iron" which works great for him. But with his putter, he stands well away from the ball and has the putter out in front of him like a regular club. His putter toe sticks up in the air, mine hangs down like Steve Striker's. I tried doing that for a few round with the Smart Sole C but it's like learning a whole new stroke for me.

[Oqvist]

It´s fascinating what putting strokes some have where iron setups is much more similar to eachother. But yeah my technique with chippers for me is more like pitch shots but is allowed to use less wrist action to present the ball to the right lofts with a more pure pendulum back and forth action which is the putter likeish action. Pitching is relatively fool proof for me also but it´s hard on shorter distances where I have to rely on chipping normally.

So maybe they should be called pitchers not chippers :D

[North Butte]

Golf is the same game for all of us but were sure go about the same thing in totally different ways.

I overheard my friend and teaching pro talking to someone about getting "stuck" from taking his driver too far inside on the backswing. He said his best driver swing thought was to imagine chopping down on the ball like he was splitting wood with an axe.

I put my fingers in my ears at that point. My swing already looks like somebody chopping wood (or trying to kill a snake). That's the LAST thing I need to think about before swinging my driver!

[Oqvist]

yeah I must think smooth and easy smooth and easy with mine. But I hope that I will find a way to comfortably rip it. I think I am partly on the way of getting there :). But I wonder if what he means by that is that you should lock the wrists before impact and push the ball on impact as to not create extra spin on the ball?

Did 18 holes and found a ton of use for the chipper. I am absolutely in love. All pressure is gone and all focus to make sure the power delivery is right as the strike is always so pure. Had many run ins where I didn´t even have to put. Sure could do that in practise before but seldom on course. I did hole one from 6 metres. Also had some chances to use it as an approach wedge and with good results.

 

[North Butte]

OK, that's enough of that. You're going to make me go get mine out the closet if you keep this up

[sdcfan18]

This has. Even the biggest improvement to my short game this season. I have more chip ones this year than I’ve had in the past 10.

[JungleJimbo]

@Oqvist : I love my Cleveland smart sole/Niblicks... but to answer your question, you might like to also check out the PRGR r55 series! Blunted leading edge/ ‘fat bottom’ ?wide sole. (Even more chunk-proof, vs the Smart Sole)
PRGR R55 Wedge R55 wedge | PRGR Official Site

[JungleJimbo]

@Oqvist : Also from PRGR = the "R35" wedge (a.k.a. chipper ; Loft = 35* i.e. approx 7-iron?). I find the R55's wedge-like shape = more versatile... but the R35 has a longer grip (~17+"?) & heavy swing-weight (~E1.5) = even more chunk-proof & can also hit ~110-yard approaches! R35 wedge | PRGR Official Site PRGR R35 Wedge
If you're looking for alternative chippers that's similar-looking to this "R35" albeit higher-lofted... can also check out a JDM brand called "Prodyn" (35* / 52* /60* models).
.Google-Translate Link: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fprodyn.jp%2Fchipper.html 【CHIPPER(チッパー)】ゴルフクラブのプロダイン(Prodyn)｜パター｜チッパー｜ドライビングスプーン｜

[BogeyParBogey]

The Maltby Trouble Out Chipper is pretty easy to use and cheap. I even had a birdie with a shot off the fringe a few weeks ago.

Dave

[Oqvist]

Yeah no longer shaft length then the C so would have to be the ladies version. I long putted with a 35" putter but found the errors in my way. I do believe the setup also helps my aim a lot as I am straight over the ball. The situations where the chipper don´t work is when getting onto elevated greens due to the low trajectory of it sometimes need to bounce it on the uphill to help it stop fast enough. Those are always tricky but yeah it would be the 55-60 degree chippers that would be interesting. But I recon a 60 degree lobwedge longer shafted will still be easier to get up and stop shots with also without opening the club face? Quite some dramatic shift from the easiest to the hardest club to hit well though.

[dekez]

I've used a Cleveland chipper in the past. I used full swings with it too and it worked just fine. It's a nice and sometimes very needed crutch that helps me smooth out my mechanics. Then it goes back to its spot in the corner of the basement. What has really turned around my short game is James Siekmann's book, Your Short Game Solution. https://www.amazon.com/Your-Short-Game-Solution-Mastering-ebook/dp/B00L9AXYZI/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=siekmann&qid=1595417340&sr=8-1 . You may want to check it out.

[Oqvist]

Today I had my first top. Of course it came on my first eagle opportunity for the season. I made a perfect drive on a par 5. It´s a dogleg left most often I don´t have the angle to be aggressive because I try to be smart about it. But now I had the perfect window. Still a long distance for my 3wood... Bomb it! Land on the fringe of the green. Very puttable but the fringe was in a bit bad shape and it was wet and I was so super confident in the chipper I think I would actually get closer to pin because it was a long putt. Not one I ever expected to make! A lot of time preparating but then I don´t know what happened but managed to top the ball for the first time ever in 4 rounds and on the practise green... Just rolled from the get go super fast all over and got stuck in the thickest grass I ever seen on the course. Not long but mega thick. I was in absolute meltdown stage so I hardly even gave it some serious thought made an half arsed attempt and then picked up the ball as not to do something really stupid.

However pretty good forgetting all misshaps on next hole just need to get off some steam then I can continue. I managed to have some fun with it also. Had a really short par 3 105 metres to the flag for the day. I have attempted that with my 50 degree gap wedge before but always comes up just short. Gave the chipper a go. Straight as a bullet and landed 2 metre short of the pin. Now I know it has at least the same distance as my 50 degree gap wedge for sure and feel so much in control with that short shaft and so many straight angles in the swing. Pretty much what I seen on the range. It stopped actually rather well not a lot of roll despite not having the height of the 50 degree GW.

In the feature I do hope I need it less though. My GIR is low but I am always close to it... But it´s obvious it´s not all times it´s better to two put then 1 chip and one putt. I am not as desperate getting on the green now with this as before :)

 

 

[BogeyParBogey]

I've been tracking stokes gained for the last 5 9-hole rounds and my chipper in 9 tries has a total strokes gained of -1.66 for an average of -0.18. I'm a bogey golfer basically so that's better than a wedge for me. Every shot ended up on the green and one went in.

An average of -0.25 is bogey golf at the course I play most often. Calling my chipping game around the bag terrible would be an understatement right now. Ouch!

Dave

[North Butte]

I use my putter for most things with 20-30 yards of the green and I just scrolled through my last three rounds. Now admittedly there are a few putter shots from only a yard or two off the green where you guys would probably not have used the chipper but anyway, here's my Strokes Gained.

+1.61 for 15 shots for an average of +0.11 SG per shot

That's the main reason I couldn't stick with the chipper long enough to figure out how to make it work. I'm a bogey golfer but in a typical round my putts from off the green are something like 1/2 a stroke better, on average, than a scratch golfer. With that being my expectation, the chipper seems hopelessly bad.

[Oqvist]

Do I read it right you use putter up to 30 metres from the green? And get better accuracy then chipping, pitching the ball onto the green?

Do your home course have really hard and slick fairways so it´s a valid tactic to use a 4 degree chipper or what loft your putter has?

 

[North Butte]

My home course has large, firm and (usually) fairly fast putting greens. Some greens are completely open in front but most of them have bunkers either front-left or front-right or both. Like many courses, the runup areas in front of the greens are not as firm as the putting greens themselves. It's Bermuda grass which is very grainy so chipping with wedges is tricky (the wedge gets caught in the grain if you're not careful).

A lot of my misses are short of the green, anywhere from the front fringe to 20, 30, even 40 yards short (if I seriously mishit an approach shot). Sometimes I have to pitch the ball over a bunker but many times it's short grass (fairway and fringe) all the way onto the green. The guys I play with who have really good touch with a wedge tend just fly the ball onto the green with a SW or LW but that's not a shot I'm good at, too many bad contact shots.

So my best options when it's all short grass are either bump and run shot with a short iron (or chipper) or putting it. Over time I've found it easier to judge the speed when hitting the ball really hard with the putter than it is to judge contact and distance with a 7-iron or something. Most guys I know who don't wedge it will bump it with a short iron. But me and a couple others just use the putter.

30 meters or 30 yards would be pushing it a bit if the grass is soft or wet. But even 40 yards is no problem when things are dry and firm.

On other side of the coin, if I'm in rough and can't putt from say 10-20 yards off the green then a chipper or short iron isn't a great choice. The Bermuda rough pretty much needs some clubhead speed to get the ball out and if I hit it that firm with a lower lofted club it will just race across the green. So when I'm in the rough that's usually a SW (if it's sitting well) or LW (if it's sitting down) so I can gouge it out and hopefully land on the green and just roll 20-30 feet.

I'd say I do the short iron (or chipper) actual chip shot maybe once or twice a round on average. If the ball is sitting on short grass or light rough but there's a couple yards of longer grass that I need to chip it over and I also have some green to work with. But it's not worth (for me) learning to use a specialized chipper club for those shots. I just give them a firm nudge with a PW and they pop forward 3-4 yards then roll out onto the green.

The longest up and and down I can remember using putter from off the green was back in March. I was standing right by a sprinkler that said 47 yards and the flag was all the way on the back of the green. So probably at least 55 yards total. I gave it a firm rap and had it tracking right toward the hole but came up a foot short. For me that was an amazing shot maybe twice as far out as I'd expect to get it close. But it's not at all unusual to knock one stiff from half that distance.

I'm also (usually) pretty good at long lag putts from on the green. At least once a round I'll end up with a 50+ foot putt because a) our greens are big and b) I'm a terrible iron player. I guess after 20 years and 2,000+ rounds at the same course I just know how hard to hit it whether it's a 20-meter putt from on the green or a 30-meter chip-with-putter from out in the fairway. I do not do nearly as well judging those putts from off the green when I play at unfamiliar courses with different kinds of grass and different styles of greens.