Driver goes ~230 - 250yds, should I change shaft / ball?

[WorkTheShaft]

Hi

 

Not sure on my swing speed, not had chance to get it measured. Ball speed at toptracer range is around 150mph but I don't know how accurate they are?

 

I hit a Cobra F6 with the weight at the back, set to 10.5 atm. Fujikura pro 60 lite flex shaft, Srixon soft feel / AD333.

 

Id say 5/10 are out the middle, slight fade if anything, a few are high toe draws. Had a good few that finished 230+ and a couple that were at least 250, can't really say how far on the carry but fairways not particularly hard.

 

I know it's hard without seeing swing etc, but does it sound like it be worth trying a stiffer shaft, or a better ball? I'm at the point where I'm not losing as many, didn't lose one on the last round

 

Cheers

[gdb99]

At that ball speed, yes, that shaft is pretty weak for you.

[bvanlieu]

The flex can cause dispersion or other feel differences that you can see when comparing and being fit. Flex alone doesn't mean bad driving. Shaft weight may be more of a factor of how you square the club if its too light, but the 60g range is a good start. 

 

Generally a fitter is going to put you in to a S at that ball speed if its accurate as your SS is around 100 +/- a few MPH but could certainly move you into a firmer R or other options based on the shaft profiles and how you react vs what is labeled on shaft as its not comparable across brands. 

 

 

 

[WorkTheShaft]

Is there a chance the lite flex is helping me get that ball speed in the first place?

 

I'm reasonably happy with the distance but was just wondering if I'm missing out on yards by not having a stronger flex, although I realise I might start missing more wildly if I change it too much

 

 

[garethw]

Last time I was on GCQuad I was swinging my driver between 93 and 95 mph. I initially had a 50gr Even Flow Riptide Stiff shaft and had issues leaving the face open. We put a 60gr Kuro Kage Black Stiff in my head and for me it made a big difference. Easier to square up and I ended up averaging 98 mph topping out at 103 mph. The heavier shaft felt more stable and easier to swing quicker without actually trying to swing quicker.

[Drivingrangehero]

2 hours ago, WorkTheShaft said:

Hi

 

Not sure on my swing speed, not had chance to get it measured. Ball speed at toptracer range is around 150mph but I don't know how accurate they are?

 

I hit a Cobra F6 with the weight at the back, set to 10.5 atm. Fujikura pro 60 lite flex shaft, Srixon soft feel / AD333.

 

Id say 5/10 are out the middle, slight fade if anything, a few are high toe draws. Had a good few that finished 230+ and a couple that were at least 250, can't really say how far on the carry but fairways not particularly hard.

 

I know it's hard without seeing swing etc, but does it sound like it be worth trying a stiffer shaft, or a better ball? I'm at the point where I'm not losing as many, didn't lose one on the last round

 

Cheers

I wouldn’t put much weight into distance at a TopTracer range. I find the Ball speed matches up with a GC Quad nicely, but the distance is way off. If I hit one on the numbers in a GC Quad my Ball Speed is around 166-168 mph.... same at a TopTracer range. My launch is 15.5-16 degrees on a GC Quad...... Toptracer it’s  11-13 degree. My Spin rate is around 1750-1900 on the GC Quad which puts me around 295-305yard carry. If I miss big, with a high spinning push, I may carry 260 tops. On the Toptracer if I flush one, it carries 260-270...... if I hit a high spinner to the right, it carries 280-290yards...... no way those numbers are accurate, especially with range balls. 
 

if you want an accurate account of what the ball is doing, go to a big box store (Dicks, Golfers Warehouse, Pga Superstore) that has a GC Quad or GC2..... I may go to Golfers Warehouse today to pick up a head cover and hit a new hybrid I bought. I can post some numbers from there to better show the wild differences in carry distance and launch..... the Ball speed numbers are real close if your are hitting whatever beat up Precept or cheap Titleist that the big box store carries. 

 

here are a few pics just to show the inaccuracy of the TopTracer range when it comes to distance. Some don’t have overall distance, just carry distance, because the overall distance is a new edition

 

Edited September 30, 2020 by Drivingrangehero
Missed a word

[WorkTheShaft]

51 minutes ago, Drivingrangehero said:

I wouldn’t put much weight into distance at a TopTracer range. I find the Ball speed matches up with a GC Quad nicely, but the distance is way off. If I hit one on the numbers in a GC Quad my Ball Speed is around 166-168 mph.... same at a TopTracer range. My launch is 15.5-16 degrees on a GC Quad...... Toptracer it’s  11-13 degree. My Spin rate is around 1750-1900 on the GC Quad which puts me around 295-305yard carry. If I miss big, with a high spinning push, I may carry 260 tops. On the Toptracer if I flush one, it carries 260-270...... if I hit a high spinner to the right, it carries 280-290yards...... no way those numbers are accurate, especially with range balls. 
 

if you want an accurate account of what the ball is doing, go to a big box store (Dicks, Golfers Warehouse, Pga Superstore) that has a GC Quad or GC2..... I may go to Golfers Warehouse today to pick up a head cover and hit a new hybrid I bought. I can post some numbers from there to better show the wild differences in carry distance and launch..... the Ball speed numbers are real close if your are hitting whatever beat up Precept or cheap Titleist that the big box store carries. 

 

here are a few pics just to show the inaccuracy of the TopTracer range when it comes to distance. Some don’t have overall distance, just carry distance, because the overall distance is a new edition

 

 

 

 

 

The distances were from playing a course. I only mention the ball speed from toptracer as that's the only thing I have to measure against, but IDK if thats a true reflection of how I'm hitting it anyway

 

It was more if I'm getting between 230 - 250 with a lite flex, would going to regular / stiff help, or would the flex be contributing to how far it goes?

51 minutes ago, Drivingrangehero said:

 

 

 

[Fairway14]

3 hours ago, WorkTheShaft said:

Hi

 

Not sure on my swing speed, not had chance to get it measured. Ball speed at toptracer range is around 150mph but I don't know how accurate they are?

 

I hit a Cobra F6 with the weight at the back, set to 10.5 atm. Fujikura pro 60 lite flex shaft, Srixon soft feel / AD333.

 

Id say 5/10 are out the middle, slight fade if anything, a few are high toe draws. Had a good few that finished 230+ and a couple that were at least 250, can't really say how far on the carry but fairways not particularly hard.

 

I know it's hard without seeing swing etc, but does it sound like it be worth trying a stiffer shaft, or a better ball? I'm at the point where I'm not losing as many, didn't lose one on the last round

 

Cheers

 

John Mahaffey had a sensational career including more than a dozen Tour wins, a Major, Ryder Cup etc... and his average driving distance was 230.

So, your distance is good and 50% in  the middle of the fairway is not bad.

[kizzy911]

New driver. I find the club head affects ball flight and distance more than shaft or ball change.  

[garzar]

9 minutes ago, Fairway14 said:

 

John Mahaffey had a sensational career including more than a dozen Tour wins, a Major, Ryder Cup etc... and his average driving distance was 230.

So, your distance is good and 50% in  the middle of the fairway is not bad.

That was almost 50yrs ago. Driving average back when he played was around 250.

[me05501]

Get fit. It is really impressive what a fitter can do. 

 

This summer I've been messing around with a 9* Rogue Draw head and a 10.5* Epic Flash head. I also have about five different shafts I've been swapping in and out. I tried a Fujikura Pro 62 green in the Epic Flash and it seemed like the ball was getting faster but it was flying too high. No matter how I set the hosel it was ballooning. So I put the same shaft in the 9* Rogue Draw head and started getting the same kick but with lower flight. That's been a good combination for me. 

 

This experience has got me convinced that a driver fitting at the beginning of next season will be money well spent. 

[Fairway14]

24 minutes ago, garzar said:

That was almost 50yrs ago. Driving average back when he played was around 250.

 

 Mahaffey consistently shot par or better on 6,800 to 7,100 yard courses driving the ball 230 yards .What difference does it make whether he did it 50 years ago or yesterday ?

[Stuart_G]

When consistency is the main issue, these are the club spec factors that typically influence consistency the most:

 

https://www.golfwrx.com/166407/wishon-7-club-fitting-keys-to-improve-shot-consistency/

 

It never hurts to try a stiffer shaft (if you do, bring your club and do a side-by-side comparison).  There are some people who can be very sensitive to the stiffness feel of a shaft - but I'd go through Howard's DIY fitting tutorial first and see what happens.

 

 

Edited September 30, 2020 by Stuart_G

[RxGolf1]

My ball speed, distance, and dispersion increased when I switched to heavier and stiffer shafts. 

[Drivingrangehero]

3 hours ago, WorkTheShaft said:

 

The distances were from playing a course. I only mention the ball speed from toptracer as that's the only thing I have to measure against, but IDK if thats a true reflection of how I'm hitting it anyway

 

It was more if I'm getting between 230 - 250 with a lite flex, would going to regular / stiff help, or would the flex be contributing to how far it goes?

 

OK, gotcha. 
 

For me personally, I find that flex has more to do with feel than launch or Spin. The factor that is most contributing to solid strikes, again for me personally, is the weight of the shaft/overall club weight. Personally I hit a 67 gram shaft, but it’s in a heavy club head Ping G410 LST with a 20 g Movable weight. I believe that’s 6 or 8 grams heavier than what came in stock 
 

 

You can type in launch/spin/ball speed into the link below, play with numbers, from there you should be able to find out what is optimum at 150 MPH. You can always try to create those numbers with Different club heads /lofts/shafts /headweight/ draw and fade bias! Playing with Tee height and moving the ball forward 1 ball, increased my launch 2* and dropped my spin 500-600 rpm
 

https://flightscope.com/products/trajectory-optimizer/

 

 

Edited September 30, 2020 by Drivingrangehero
Typo

[pinestreetgolf]

1 hour ago, Fairway14 said:

 

 Mahaffey consistently shot par or better on 6,800 to 7,100 yard courses driving the ball 230 yards .What difference does it make whether he did it 50 years ago or yesterday ?

 

Yeah, totally.  I mean why try to improve your driving distance when one dude out of seventy years of golfers was able to do that?  Also, the OP will need to become one of the top 15 long iron players of all time and one of the top 50 putters of all time.  Probably easier to do that than just add a few yards.

[Fairway14]

45 minutes ago, pinestreetgolf said:

 

Yeah, totally.  I mean why try to improve your driving distance when one dude out of seventy years of golfers was able to do that?  Also, the OP will need to become one of the top 15 long iron players of all time and one of the top 50 putters of all time.  Probably easier to do that than just add a few yards.

 

 An honest 230 yard tee ball is long enough to shoot par golf playing any 6700 to 6900 sea level elevation golf course. If one hits the tee ball straight he/she can be on or in front of every green in regulation, and from there shooting par golf is a matter of having a respectable chipping-pitching-putting game.

[Red4282]

10 minutes ago, Fairway14 said:

 

 An honest 230 yard tee ball is long enough to shoot par golf playing any 6700 to 6900 sea level elevation golf course. If one hits the tee ball straight he/she can be on or in front of every green in regulation, and from there shooting par golf is a matter of having a respectable chipping-pitching-putting game.

Ah man i guess i should just hit my 5 iron off every tee 😂... 

 

in all reality, is it possible... yea.. but your short game and iron play better be absolutely elite. Get longer. Thats how you really improve.

Edited September 30, 2020 by Red4282

[Fairway14]

6 minutes ago, Red4282 said:

Ah man i guess i should just hit my 5 iron off every tee 😂... 

 

in all reality, is it possible... yea.. but your short game and iron play better be absolutely elite. Get longer. Thats how you really improve.

 

For a Tour player where everyone in a tournament field has a sensational short game and a scoring average of 72 or better, then adding some extra 

tee box yardage might provide a benefit.

But for amateur players shooting 75, 80, or worse. longer drives should be way down the list of priorities towards improved scoring. 

[Red4282]

5 minutes ago, Fairway14 said:

 

For a Tour player where everyone in a tournament field has a sensational short game and a scoring average of 72 or better, then adding some extra 

tee box yardage might provide a benefit.

But for amateur players shooting 75, 80, or worse. longer drives should be way down the list of priorities towards improved scoring. 

Massively disagree. All you have to do is look at strokes gained data To prove this. Just look who is dominating the tour. The long hitters. If your shooting 80 and hitting it 230, your short game is just fine. 

Edited September 30, 2020 by Red4282

[Fairway14]

5 minutes ago, Red4282 said:

Massively disagree. All you have to do is look at strokes gained data To prove this. Just look who is dominating the tour. The long hitters. If your shooting 80 and hitting it 230, your short game is just fine. 

 

Again, in a tournament field where every player has a sensational short game and scoring average of 72, then longer tee shots may provide and advantage. That is pro Tour golf.

But amateurs spraying tee shots, pushing iron shots, duffing chips, blading bunker shots, three putting greens etc.... en route to shooting 75 or worse, trying for extra distance off the tee box should be way down the list of priorities towards improved scoring.

[Red4282]

Just now, Fairway14 said:

 

Again, in a tournament field where every player has a sensational short game and scoring average of 72, then longer tee shots may provide and advantage. That is pro Tour golf.

But amateurs spraying tee shots, pushing iron shots, duffing chips, blading bunker shots, three putting greens etc.... en route to shooting 75 or worse, trying for extra distance off the tee box should be way down the list of priorities towards improved scoring.

Well if you are talking about the 30 + cap who can't ever make consistent contact, yea, sure. But someone shooting 80? No-thats completely different. Getting sidetracked, main thing is you used an extreme outlier to justify something is ok, and in a different era, which is completely misleading. 

[jacincm]

Always always get fitted

[blueonblack]

6 hours ago, WorkTheShaft said:

Hi

 

Not sure on my swing speed, not had chance to get it measured. Ball speed at toptracer range is around 150mph but I don't know how accurate they are?

 

I hit a Cobra F6 with the weight at the back, set to 10.5 atm. Fujikura pro 60 lite flex shaft, Srixon soft feel / AD333.

 

Id say 5/10 are out the middle, slight fade if anything, a few are high toe draws. Had a good few that finished 230+ and a couple that were at least 250, can't really say how far on the carry but fairways not particularly hard.

 

I know it's hard without seeing swing etc, but does it sound like it be worth trying a stiffer shaft, or a better ball? I'm at the point where I'm not losing as many, didn't lose one on the last round

 

Cheers

Assuming a "perfect" smash factor of 1.50, as others have said, that computes to about 100 MPH swing speed. Probably a stable regular flex/softish stiff flex. I'm about in that same range myself now, after swinging X flex in my youth til my late 30's.

 

Different shaft profiles will impart more or less spin and higher/lower launch angles.

When in doubt? Mid launch and spin shafts fit the widest swath of golfers, myself included.

 

Torque and how you square the face is in the equation as well. Higher torque= more face rotation/closure through impact. So too soft and too much torque can start to get a little wild on ya, and too stiff and too little torque feels like rebar at impact and isn't loaded properly. So a softer shaft is always potentially going to go further because of the load you're able to put on it, but be harder to control.

[Fairway14]

2 minutes ago, Red4282 said:

Well if you are talking about the 30 + cap who can't ever make consistent contact, yea, sure. But someone shooting 80? No-thats completely different. Getting sidetracked, main thing is you used an extreme outlier to justify something is ok, and in a different era, which is completely misleading. 

 

The guys I know who shoot 80 or worse are doing it from not making square-quality ball contact, lack of accuracy, consistently failing to get the ball up and down when missing a green etc... Lack of distance is in no way a contributing factor to shooting 80.

As for "different era", most of the world's best courses were built more than a 100 years ago. The game is the same now as it always was, meaning consistently straight shots and a respectable short game is the best sense strategy towards shooting low scores.

[blueonblack]

One of my favorite courses is super short, old school. The greens are often the size of your living room and domed. They had many ways to "protect" par over the years. Sometimes, modern course architecture just looks a little lazy. Especially since they did it with horses and plows 100 years ago.

Although, they are also making courses out of garbage dump sites now too.

The land is always a very helpful starting point. They had absolute gold to work with back in the day.

Kinda like cars used to be all steel and chrome and huge, and now they're aluminum and plastic.

[Red4282]

16 minutes ago, Fairway14 said:

 

The guys I know who shoot 80 or worse are doing it from not making square-quality ball contact, lack of accuracy, consistently failing to get the ball up and down when missing a green etc... Lack of distance is in no way a contributing factor to shooting 80.

As for "different era", most of the world's best courses were built more than a 100 years ago. The game is the same now as it always was, meaning consistently straight shots and a respectable short game is the best sense strategy towards shooting low scores.

Hmm they might not need to get up and down so much if they were closer to the hole hitting a 9 iron instead of a 5 iron...🤷‍♂️ 
Also, why cant you be longer AND straight? You assume to get longer is automatically going to net a loss in accuracy? Better to be 100 out in the rough than 150 in the fairway anyways. Thats what the DATA says. 
 

As far as the “eras” are concerned, like mentioned 250 was average, so he wasnt far off the average and had “success”.

To put that in modern day equivalence, that would be a pro having success hitting it 270. Which isn't that unheard of. But someone hitting it 230 in todays game? No way. That same dude hitting it 230 then would easily hit it 270 with todays equipment and ball. Can you shoot good scores hitting it 230? Of course, im not saying that isnt possible, but its SOOO much harder. Get a lesson, get fit. 20 extra yards is HUGE.

[Fairway14]

7 minutes ago, Red4282 said:

Hmm they might not need to get up and down so much if they were closer to the hole hitting a 9 iron instead of a 5 iron...🤷‍♂️ 
Also, why cant you be longer AND straight? You assume to get longer is automatically going to net a loss in accuracy? Better to be 100 out in the rough than 150 in the fairway anyways. Thats what the DATA says. 
 

As far as the “eras” are concerned, like mentioned 250 was average, so he wasnt far off the average and had “success”.

To put that in modern day equivalence, that would be a pro having success hitting it 270. Which isn't that unheard of. But someone hitting it 230 in todays game? No way. That same dude hitting it 230 then would easily hit it 270 with todays equipment and ball. Can you shoot good scores hitting it 230? Of course, im not saying that isnt possible, but its SOOO much harder. Get a lesson, get fit. 20 extra yards is HUGE.

 

Your analogies are about Tour pros and their games.

If you are an amateur with a scoring average above par why not focus your attention to the amateur game ? Next time you are on the golf course pay attention to guys shooting over par and I expect you will see tee shots that find the trees, missed greens from 150 yards,  greenside pitches and bunker shots that leave the player with a 20 foot par putt, some three putts, some missed 5 foot putts etc... So, for that player who gets a lesson a competent teaching pro will focus on these scoring issues way before he/she ever talks to the student about "gaining distance".

 

[cgasucks]

Work on hitting it on the sweet spot.  If you can do that consistently, then you can eeke out a few more yards getting fitted, changing shafts, etc.  Strike is king guys...strike is king.

[Red4282]

1 hour ago, Fairway14 said:

 

Your analogies are about Tour pros and their games.

If you are an amateur with a scoring average above par why not focus your attention to the amateur game ? Next time you are on the golf course pay attention to guys shooting over par and I expect you will see tee shots that find the trees, missed greens from 150 yards,  greenside pitches and bunker shots that leave the player with a 20 foot par putt, some three putts, some missed 5 foot putts etc... So, for that player who gets a lesson a competent teaching pro will focus on these scoring issues way before he/she ever talks to the student about "gaining distance".

 

Look, im not saying those arent important, because they are, BUT, if you hit it 230, AND can shoot 80, its very likely the NUMBER ONE thing holding this player back is being short.
 

And by your analysis, this golfer wont gain ANY strokes by moving up a tee box or two. Nonsense.