Using a club as aiming help

[naval2006]

The other day on the putting green there were these two gents engaged on a discussion about using a club you hold parallel to your legs to help aiming you body. One of them said it was against the rules and the other one said it wasn’t because he had done it for years. They asked me and I said I wasn’t sure but I would find out with the people who really know (I meant this forum LOL).

[nsxguy]

1 hour ago, naval2006 said:

The other day on the putting green there were these two gents engaged on a discussion about using a club you hold parallel to your legs to help aiming you body. One of them said it was against the rules and the other one said it wasn’t because he had done it for years. They asked me and I said I wasn’t sure but I would find out with the people who really know (I meant this forum LOL).

 

You're talking about this, yes ? If so I believe it's OK.

 

Butt I'm sure day boyz will be by shortly.

 

[Hawkeye77]

10.2.b(2) doesn't allow anything to be put down on the putting green to help with alignment/line of play, but I can't find any prohibition on holding an object for the purpose described (which would presumably be removed prior to making a stroke). 

 

Seems like if you don't put it down it's fair game.

 

Edit:  Not one of the "Boyz" here, lol.

Edited April 25, 2021 by Hawkeye77

[rogolf]

55 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

10.2.b(2) doesn't allow anything to be put down on the putting green to help with alignment/line of play, but I can't find any prohibition on holding an object for the purpose described (which would presumably be removed prior to making a stroke). 

 

Seems like if you don't put it down it's fair game.

 

Edit:  Not one of the "Boyz" here, lol.

The right answer tho'. 

[larryw]

2 minutes ago, rogolf said:

10.2.b(2) doesn't allow anything to be put down on the putting green to help with alignment/line of play, but I can't find any prohibition on holding an object for the purpose described (which would presumably be removed prior to making a stroke). 

Good info: So does this mean that the "stand up putter" that you place behind the ball (on the green) and walk around behind it to see if it is aligned the way you want, then go back, grab the grip and make your putt - would be legal or illegal?

 

(Sorry for the thread hijack, but it seemed it had been answered.)

[antip]

5 minutes ago, larryw said:

Good info: So does this mean that the "stand up putter" that you place behind the ball (on the green) and walk around behind it to see if it is aligned the way you want, then go back, grab the grip and make your putt - would be legal or illegal?

 

(Sorry for the thread hijack, but it seemed it had been answered.)

My understanding is this has been answered officially like this - providing the putter itself conforms to the equipment rules, then using one in this way is not considered to be a breach of Rule 10.2. 

[Newby]

5 hours ago, antip said:

My understanding is this has been answered officially like this - providing the putter itself conforms to the equipment rules, then using one in this way is not considered to be a breach of Rule 10.2. 

I remember such a ruling being published before 2019.

[Mr. Bean]

10 hours ago, antip said:

My understanding is this has been answered officially like this - providing the putter itself conforms to the equipment rules, then using one in this way is not considered to be a breach of Rule 10.2. 

 

That is correct, a ruling that makes no sense whatsoever.

[Hawkeye77]

I keep hoping I'll see a stand up putter being used just for the entertainment value, but have yet to see one in use anywhere, in fact I never see any of the infomercial golf darlings (as I type having fallen in the park waiting for someone to help because I can't get up) - can't figure out how they make money.

[antip]

21 minutes ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

That is correct, a ruling that makes no sense whatsoever.

I can't get excited by this one for the simple reason that the information conveyed to player with such putters (at least the ones I am aware of) is less alignment information than is available by using lines drawn on the ball and even more so if there are coordinated lines on ball and ball marker.

I do think RBs are still undecided on some aspects of equipment doubling as alignment tools - but this example is not one of them. For example, a long outstanding question is whether using a 4 inch or 6 inch unmarked pencil to mark your ball and simultaneously align your ball (and therefore subsequent putt) is a breach of any rule.

 

[Mr. Bean]

17 minutes ago, antip said:

I can't get excited by this one for the simple reason that the information conveyed to player with such putters (at least the ones I am aware of) is less alignment information than is available by using lines drawn on the ball and even more so if there are coordinated lines on ball and ball marker.

 

 

My view on this origins from the Rule that forbids a player to lay down on the ground a club that does not stand erect alone. As I said, no sense whatsoever.

[antip]

12 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

My view on this origins from the Rule that forbids a player to lay down on the ground a club that does not stand erect alone. As I said, no sense whatsoever.

I understand your view. Mine is a little different as the "set down an object" 2019 language, for me, was never intended to catch a standing up putter (or a ball marker, or a ball that has an alignment line on it) which has a perfectly respectable reason to be in the presence of the golf ball on the putting green. Stepping away from such examples, I suspect our views would align.

[Mr. Bean]

7 hours ago, antip said:

I understand your view. Mine is a little different as the "set down an object" 2019 language, for me, was never intended to catch a standing up putter (or a ball marker, or a ball that has an alignment line on it) which has a perfectly respectable reason to be in the presence of the golf ball on the putting green. Stepping away from such examples, I suspect our views would align.

 

Alignment line on a ball would be impossible to forbid as any logo forming a straight line can be used as one. Markings on a ball-marker could be forbidden if so desired. This leaves only the stand alone -putter which could also be ruled to fall under 10.2b.

 

I can live with this and so far have never seen such a putter live. Apparently not vary popular around here.

[antip]

2 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

I can live with this and so far have never seen such a putter live. Apparently not vary popular around here.

I've never seen one in the flesh either.

[antip]

There's an interesting PS here that I forgot to bring back to the group subsequent to me checking an angle with RBs.

 

Outside the putting green, you can lay a club on the ground to point out line of play prior to a stroke being made (eg put driver on the ground on the tee aligned to the line of play) - permitted by 10.2b(2) - but you must not take a stance while that object is there - breach of 10.2b(3). Another watchpoint is that permission is rescinded if laying the club on the ground leaves a mark that is subsequently used to assist taking a stance.

[rogolf]

4 minutes ago, antip said:

There's an interesting PS here that I forgot to bring back to the group subsequent to me checking an angle with RBs.

 

Outside the putting green, you can lay a club on the ground to point out line of play prior to a stroke being made (eg put driver on the ground on the tee aligned to the line of play) - permitted by 10.2b(2) - but you must not take a stance while that object is there - breach of 10.2b(3). Another watchpoint is that permission is rescinded if laying the club on the ground leaves a mark that is subsequently used to assist taking a stance.

That's quite a nuance, perhaps understandable.

Say that I'm between holes and put a club on the ground pointing at a tree 90 degrees off any intended line of play for the next hole, then take a stance with that club in place.  Hopefully, that is not a breach!

[antip]

1 hour ago, rogolf said:

That's quite a nuance, perhaps understandable.

Say that I'm between holes and put a club on the ground pointing at a tree 90 degrees off any intended line of play for the next hole, then take a stance with that club in place.  Hopefully, that is not a breach!

I don't think you can get to a breach accidentally.

I raised it because I (and probably many others) reacted to the 2019 rules by thinking "okay, it is no longer permitted to lay a club on the ground to help get aligned on the hole". But in reality the answer is a bit more sophisticated, as outlined above.