At what point should a kid move up to harder tournaments.

[tiger1873]

Looking over some of the local tournaments I am impressed with their scores.  In some cases we are talking low 60's for their rounds.  I do kind of wonder if your able to get in the low 60's at local multi-day tournaments wonder why your not doing larger tournaments?   The only thing is some these kids score mid 80's in AJGA tournaments so you kind of wonder.

 

To me this indicates that some tournaments the yardage setup is way too easy or it's sort of free for all.

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

9 minutes ago, tiger1873 said:

Looking over some of the local tournaments I am impressed with their scores.  In some cases we are talking low 60's for their rounds.  I do kind of wonder if your able to get in the low 60's at local multi-day tournaments wonder why your not doing larger tournaments?   The only thing is some these kids score mid 80's in AJGA tournaments so you kind of wonder.

 

To me this indicates that some tournaments the yardage setup is way too easy or it's sort of free for all.

How were the scores on the back nine?

Edited July 26, 2021 by TripleBogeysrbetter

[kekoa]

Was speaking to my son's coach about this.  He suggests playing within your age group for tournaments.  Sees no real point in playing up 3 or 4 age groups and get your Word not allowed handed to you.  

[leezer99]

23 minutes ago, kekoa said:

Was speaking to my son's coach about this.  He suggests playing within your age group for tournaments.  Sees no real point in playing up 3 or 4 age groups and get your Word not allowed handed to you.  

Huh?

[heavy_hitter]

There are certainly different philosophies.

25 minutes ago, kekoa said:

Was speaking to my son's coach about this.  He suggests playing within your age group for tournaments.  Sees no real point in playing up 3 or 4 age groups and get your Word not allowed handed to you.  

 

Hablo Ingles?

[Nard_S]

My son played AAU basketball for 7 years. Coach always played kids up. Expects to win only 20%-25% of time. By the time kids are 17, they win a lot and the experience endured shows. Not always fun to watch but it works.

[leezer99]

Just now, Nard_S said:

My son played AAU basketball for 7 years. Coach always played kids up. Expects to win only 20%-25% of time. By the time kids are 17, they win a lot and the experience endured shows. Not always fun to watch but it works.

🤔

[heavy_hitter]

Simple.  You play what distances you can handle as long as you can compete.  Winning doesn't matter, competing to win does.

[wildcatden]

My junior (Boy age 10) played some 6000-6200 yard 2-day tournaments this spring/summer (no caddies, push/carry yourself).  While I think it is good to challenge yourself , it was also mentally difficult for him.  My only expectations for him were to have fun and to try to stick to his process.  However, his expectations that he puts upon himself were much higher.  This caused a lot of frustration being exhibited by him during the rounds.  It started to "take the fun out of the game" for him no matter how much I expressed that he shouldn't be worried about the result. Certainly, a learning experience and he has made some strides forward since these tournaments.

 

His golf tournament schedule for the rest of the season is now set (and ends in the beginning of September as we head to Fall baseball then).  We will work the off season in golf and try to gain some more distance and then re-examine whether he should play the longer yardages.  IMO, if you are not poking it out to 190-200 as a bare minimum, it gets pretty difficult to play 6000-6200 yard course at par. Your mileage may vary with your kid.

[heavy_hitter]

1 minute ago, wildcatden said:

My junior (Boy age 10) played some 6000-6200 yard 2-day tournaments this spring/summer (no caddies, push/carry yourself).  While I think it is good to challenge yourself , it was also mentally difficult for him.  My only expectations for him were to have fun and to try to stick to his process.  However, his expectations that he puts upon himself were much higher.  This caused a lot of frustration being exhibited by him during the rounds.  It started to "take the fun out of the game" for him no matter how much I expressed that he shouldn't be worried about the result. Certainly, a learning experience and he has made some strides forward since these tournaments.

 

His golf tournament schedule for the rest of the season is now set (and ends in the beginning of September as we head to Fall baseball then).  We will work the off season in golf and try to gain some more distance and then re-examine whether he should play the longer yardages.  IMO, if you are not poking it out to 190-200 as a bare minimum, it gets pretty difficult to play 6000-6200 yard course at par. Your mileage may vary with your kid.

6000-6200 is absolutely too long for a 10 year old unless they can poke it out there 225 plus.

[phillyspecial]

Ive thought a lot about this, but more from the distance perspective.  I have a 9 yr old boy playing both USKGand Jr. PGA events.  USKG sets up at 1850 yds and he is around par.  He learns how to score and gains a lot of confidence playing golf where a good player should be hitting most GIR.  The PGA events set up differently, using whatever the front tees are for the course, and par becomes meaningless with winning scores in the 40s.  Kids care about par no matter what you tell them that it doesnt matter - they want birdie putts because that is more fun!  We struggle with same "what tees should I play from" at our home course during casual rounds, play the family tees (USKG equiv) and go for a score around par, or play the front tees where low 40s is a great outcome, but leads to more frustration.   

 

I think golf is a lot different that AAU hoops or hockey, where playing up brings on better competition.  In golf you can always seek that out, but at the end of the day there is a different component to learn which is going low and getting comfortable mentally shooting low scores.  I defer to heavy_hitter and the other experienced parents on this forum far more wiser than I, but I personally think USKG (for <12) gets it right where 10yr olds play against each other and the courses are generally gettable with increasing difficulty as you get to Regionals/Worlds.  

[wildcatden]

35 minutes ago, heavy_hitter said:

6000-6200 is absolutely too long for a 10 year old unless they can poke it out there 225 plus.

 

 

Yep, that was the number off the tee I had in mind as well to compete for par at 6000-6200.  In our case, we are in the 190-200 off the tee these days. Played Poppy Ridge yesterday and shot +2 from 5200 yards. It was certainly a much more enjoyable experience for him and helps with confidence, etc, etc, etc....

[heavy_hitter]

5 minutes ago, phillyspecial said:

Ive thought a lot about this, but more from the distance perspective.  I have a 9 yr old boy playing both USKGand Jr. PGA events.  USKG sets up at 1850 yds and he is around par.  He learns how to score and gains a lot of confidence playing golf where a good player should be hitting most GIR.  The PGA events set up differently, using whatever the front tees are for the course, and par becomes meaningless with winning scores in the 40s.  Kids care about par no matter what you tell them that it doesnt matter - they want birdie putts because that is more fun!  We struggle with same "what tees should I play from" at our home course during casual rounds, play the family tees (USKG equiv) and go for a score around par, or play the front tees where low 40s is a great outcome, but leads to more frustration.   

 

I think golf is a lot different that AAU hoops or hockey, where playing up brings on better competition.  In golf you can always seek that out, but at the end of the day there is a different component to learn which is going low and getting comfortable mentally shooting low scores.  I defer to heavy_hitter and the other experienced parents on this forum far more wiser than I, but I personally think USKG (for <12) gets it right where 10yr olds play against each other and the courses are generally gettable with increasing difficulty as you get to Regionals/Worlds.  

 

 

 

A lot of people knock USKG Locals, but USKG locals are a recreational/beginner level of yardages.  However, at 9 years old a lot of states have no other alternatives.  I agree with you that as you go through USKG State, Regional, and World they get it right.  My biggest knock on USKG is differentiating distances by Age.  Age has nothing to do with ability levels.  I would rather see a 9-10 division, 11-12 division, etc. for locals.  If you have a 10 year old that is beating everyone in the 9-10 year old division, give the parents the option to move him up.   

 

Some state PGA sections do a great job, others are horrible.  

[heavy_hitter]

4 minutes ago, wildcatden said:

 

 

Yep, that was the number off the tee I had in mind as well to compete for par at 6000-6200.  In our case, we are in the 190-200 off the tee these days. Played Poppy Ridge yesterday and shot +2 from 5200 yards. It was certainly a much more enjoyable experience for him and helps with confidence, etc, etc, etc....

Then you have kids like Nana Tanke busting it 240 at 10 playing with 13-18 year olds from 6500 yards.

[phillyspecial]

4 minutes ago, heavy_hitter said:

 

 

 

A lot of people knock USKG Locals, but USKG locals are a recreational/beginner level of yardages.  However, at 9 years old a lot of states have no other alternatives.  I agree with you that as you go through USKG State, Regional, and World they get it right.  My biggest knock on USKG is differentiating distances by Age.  Age has nothing to do with ability levels.  I would rather see a 9-10 division, 11-12 division, etc. for locals.  If you have a 10 year old that is beating everyone in the 9-10 year old division, give the parents the option to move him up.   

 

Some state PGA sections do a great job, others are horrible.  

Agree the Local yardages are too short for the advanced players, but at least they are standardized.  You still need to go there and print your 72 to get into the Worlds etc.  My kid also at a transitional point where he really started playing a full tour season last year (shooting low 40s) and this year made the leap to par.  So there's still a high level of enjoyment/achievement given its his first time down that road.  I can see how a 9/10 yr old who has been shooting par or better for multiple seasons needs to move almost completely beyond local tour stuff.  

 

End of the day it all levels out once you get beyond 12 anyway right?  

[tiger1873]

Some course setups are too easy especially when playing local pga juniors. If your old enough to play AJGA there really is no reason to play beginner tournaments to win if your breaking par.

 

i see this a lot with girls who have a great short game but will not step up to the challenge play better and longer courses due to not being able hit it longer or  there driver strait enough.

 

In a lot cased the longer distances means rankings are going to suffer because they have no chance to break par.

I think they play short distances to hope rankings will help them secure a scholarship. The problem is once any coach finds out they can’t hit 200 yards it is an uphill battle.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 26, 2021 by tiger1873

[heavy_hitter]

3 minutes ago, phillyspecial said:

Agree the Local yardages are too short for the advanced players, but at least they are standardized.  You still need to go there and print your 72 to get into the Worlds etc.  My kid also at a transitional point where he really started playing a full tour season last year (shooting low 40s) and this year made the leap to par.  So there's still a high level of enjoyment/achievement given its his first time down that road.  I can see how a 9/10 yr old who has been shooting par or better for multiple seasons needs to move almost completely beyond local tour stuff.  

 

End of the day it all levels out once you get beyond 12 anyway right?  

 

Kind of....  The tweener area is 12-13 depending on how far you hit it.  There are 12 year olds that can play 6500 no problem because they can bang it out there 240.  Then you have the distance challenged kid at 13 that struggles to play well from 5800 yards because they are only driving it 220.  Around 14 is when it really balances out for everyone.  Some kids it balances out at 12.

 

We are getting ready for HS Golf season here.  We have 2 Juniors and a Senior that are 280 plus.  These three kids will be 75 or better most of the time.  Then we have 2 more juniors and a Senior that are 260 plus.  One will be 80 or better most of the time and the other two 84ish or better.  Then we get to a sophomore and 3 incoming freshman that barely poke it 220 and their scores reflect how far they can hit it.  One can shoot mid 80's, the rest won't break 90 and a couple over 100.

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

16 minutes ago, tiger1873 said:

Some course setups are too easy especially when playing local pga juniors. If your old enough to play AJGA there really is no reason to play beginner tournaments to win if your breaking par.

 

i see this a lot with girls who have a great short game but will not step up to the challenge play better and longer courses due to not being able hit it longer or  there driver strait enough.

 

In a lot cased the longer distances means rankings are going to suffer because they have no chance to break par.

I think they play short distances to hope rankings will help them secure a scholarship. The problem is once any coach finds out they can’t hit 200 yards it is an uphill battle.

 

 

 

 

$295.00 AJGA - and in  Delaware. Monday - Thursday.

 

$140 in VA. Saturday and Sunday

 

There is plenty of reasons not to play AJGA.

[mrshinsa]

Harder tournaments in terms of setup or competition?

 

I try to make sure the my kids play in tournaments where they can at least reach the green. One or two holes is fine, but things get really frustrating for everyone when you're taking an extra stroke every hole.   I believe Earl woods didn't move his son's tees back until he could score.  

 

In terms of competition, our regions US Kids is very popular and gets fully booked within minutes with over hundreds in waiting list.  Unless your kid is big and/or strong, their distance is right for the "normal" boys.  Girls distances are way too short in my opinion.  My daughter can slice her drive, chunk her short irons and still get on the green for an eagle putt on par5s.  

Edited July 26, 2021 by mrshinsa

[tiger1873]

34 minutes ago, mrshinsa said:

Harder tournaments in terms of setup or competition?

 

I try to make sure the my kids play in tournaments where they can at least reach the green. One or two holes is fine, but things get really frustrating for everyone when you're taking an extra stroke every hole.   I believe Earl woods didn't move his son's tees back until he could score.  

 

In terms of competition, our regions US Kids is very popular and gets fully booked within minutes with over hundreds in waiting list.  Unless your kid is big and/or strong, their distance is right for the "normal" boys.  Girls distances are way too short in my opinion.  My daughter can slice her drive, chunk her short irons and still get on the green for an eagle putt on par5s.  

 

Both you want to play the best competition as possible. The better courses also require you to hit fairways and that includes girls.   If your able to score 63 or 64 then no reason to not to seek out better tournaments.  The reality is those girls should be scoring at least 75-80 if they can score that low on a little longer setup.  

 

I do question how a girl who scores 85-90 on 5800 yard course all year but plays in local tournaments and scores 64 on a 5400 course.  Something seems really off with there game when I see that. To me if that is happening it's because they can't hit a few clubs longer or they really didn't shoot 64 and it calls into question lack of officials who care.

Edited July 26, 2021 by tiger1873

[tiger1873]

35 minutes ago, TripleBogeysrbetter said:

$295.00 AJGA - and in  Delaware. Monday - Thursday.

 

$140 in VA. Saturday and Sunday

 

There is plenty of reasons not to play AJGA.

 

 

The best competition plays AJGA.  It just reality they have the best tournaments. I get they are more expensive and not the easiest to get into and quite frankly some kids will not do well on the courses they play.

 

At the end of the day the best golfers are there.  There are cheaper options some are ok but a lot cheaper tournaments lack officials and do not play at the better courses. They may have some exceptions but it's a general rule.

 

As my kid is getting older I am learning real quick there are some kids who just can't make the transition. It's pretty obvious and they are dropping in the rankings.

[RmoorePE]

I think it is pretty obvious when they should move up. Are they getting 6-10 strokes clear of the competition every time out? Move up. If they are in the thick of the top 5 each event, they are probably in a good spot. If it is convenient, it never hurts to try the next level up. I think golf is one sport where that is not really going to effect the kid mentally too much (to try a couple of higher end tournaments). I mean your kid goes out and shoots a score that is good for them, you still have something to celebrate and watching/playing with better players is helpful. 

 

Take average local basketball team into a regional AAU tournament and getting your butt whipped through the losers bracket really doesn't really inspire many kids to keep trying. I have a lot to say about the AAU system, but this is not the forum for it.

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

37 minutes ago, tiger1873 said:

 

 

The best competition plays AJGA.  It just reality they have the best tournaments. I get they are more expensive and not the easiest to get into and quite frankly some kids will not do well on the courses they play.

 

At the end of the day the best golfers are there.  There are cheaper options some are ok but a lot cheaper tournaments lack officials and do not play at the better courses. They may have some exceptions but it's a general rule.

 

As my kid is getting older I am learning real quick there are some kids who just can't make the transition. It's pretty obvious and they are dropping in the rankings.

 It just reality they have the best tournaments. (Just reality that location isn't always the closest)

I get they are more expensive and not the easiest to get into and quite frankly some kids will not do well on the courses they play. (No problem with expensive, but why travel, stay in a hotel and take off from work in some cases?)

 

I am learning real quick there are some kids who just can't make the transition. It's pretty obvious and they are dropping in the rankings. (Its obvious as some kids get bigger earlier they might have some success.  Psst - Rankings don't mean crap.  Unless you are a blue chip kid you will get more money from merit from athletics.)

[Medson]

My daughter is only 8 yo, so my experience is limited. My gut feeling is things will even out when kids reach 14 yo (maybe a bit sooner for girls). 

 

For younger kids, their build, growth and # of years they played have outsized influence on their scores. 

 

When we go play practice rounds, I usually set it up so that my daughter can have good amount of GIR. She will have some birdie chances, and will need to scramble for pars. 

 

There are girls of her age who is bigger and simply hit further. They can play whatever yardage works for them. Instead of standardize on distance, maybe standardize on scores in relation to par. Then reverse engineer the distance. 

[Nard_S]

24 minutes ago, Medson said:

My daughter is only 8 yo, so my experience is limited. My gut feeling is things will even out when kids reach 14 yo (maybe a bit sooner for girls). 

At 14, 75% of kids drop out of sports, the better pull away and dedicate to one, two tops. Serious commitment really starts earlier. If it's the kid's passion, it's all good, if it's the parents, not so much. 

 

[tiger1873]

38 minutes ago, Medson said:

My daughter is only 8 yo, so my experience is limited. My gut feeling is things will even out when kids reach 14 yo (maybe a bit sooner for girls). 

 

For younger kids, their build, growth and # of years they played have outsized influence on their scores. 

 

When we go play practice rounds, I usually set it up so that my daughter can have good amount of GIR. She will have some birdie chances, and will need to scramble for pars. 

 

There are girls of her age who is bigger and simply hit further. They can play whatever yardage works for them. Instead of standardize on distance, maybe standardize on scores in relation to par. Then reverse engineer the distance. 

i think 14 is where you see things flip for girls my daughter that age and girls who have strength and are interested is the ones moving up the rankings.

 

lots of girls are losing interest and some just do not have the strength to play at the higher levels.  
 

seeing so many top ranked girls now avoiding tournaments that they can’t play really speaks volumes.  
 

 

[heavy_hitter]

15 hours ago, TripleBogeysrbetter said:

$295.00 AJGA - and in  Delaware. Monday - Thursday.

 

$140 in VA. Saturday and Sunday

 

There is plenty of reasons not to play AJGA.

Agree.  Coaches will tell you that kids living in Florida, Texas, and Cali don't need to play AJGA.  Does it help?  It does more so for guys than girls.  It makes evaluation easy against top players in a field for the coaches.  In Florida, Cali, and Texas the kids are already playing in top fields against good competition.

[heavy_hitter]

15 hours ago, tiger1873 said:

 

 

The best competition plays AJGA.  It just reality they have the best tournaments. I get they are more expensive and not the easiest to get into and quite frankly some kids will not do well on the courses they play.

 

At the end of the day the best golfers are there.  There are cheaper options some are ok but a lot cheaper tournaments lack officials and do not play at the better courses. They may have some exceptions but it's a general rule.

 

As my kid is getting older I am learning real quick there are some kids who just can't make the transition. It's pretty obvious and they are dropping in the rankings.

 

The AJGA Open Fields have not been as strong this year as in the past.  Even more so for girl's.

[heavy_hitter]

14 hours ago, TripleBogeysrbetter said:

 It just reality they have the best tournaments. (Just reality that location isn't always the closest)

I get they are more expensive and not the easiest to get into and quite frankly some kids will not do well on the courses they play. (No problem with expensive, but why travel, stay in a hotel and take off from work in some cases?)

 

I am learning real quick there are some kids who just can't make the transition. It's pretty obvious and they are dropping in the rankings. (Its obvious as some kids get bigger earlier they might have some success.  Psst - Rankings don't mean crap.  Unless you are a blue chip kid you will get more money from merit from athletics.)

 

AJGA honestly doesn't play great courses.  Stoneybrook and Timacuan in Florida are usually on the AJGA circuit and there is nothing special about them.  In fact they have played some real dumps this year around the country.  One played in Texas and Louisiana this year were crap holes.  I would venture to guess it is about 50/50.  Really hit and miss.  I don't see anything special about AJGA set ups or courses.  The only thing I see with AJGA is getting to play against better competition if you are from a state like Connecticut or Rhode Island where there isn't a high level of junior golf.  Play FJT in Florida and you don't even need AJGA events.

[tiger1873]

40 minutes ago, heavy_hitter said:

 

The AJGA Open Fields have not been as strong this year as in the past.  Even more so for girl's.

 

 

Here is the thing you need to play against international kids especially as a girl.  If your not playing against girls from Canada, Sweden, Mexico, Korea and China among other countries your going to get passed over for them.

 

The are a tons of kids sent over here on nationals teams to play in tournaments.  The issue is they are also taking over college programs.  A lot these national programs hire the best coaches and pay for everything.  Not all foreign kids get this but these kids are being paid to play AJGA and promoted as the best. You have to beat them.

 

These kids don't generally play state events like FJT or LJT.  They only play in national and amateur events.

 

With Boys you really do not see the international players dominating the PGA like the LPGA. So the best boys that will play in the PGA are almost likely playing the big state events. 

 

More girls need to play national events and think about how to compete to win on a international level vs a state level or else it only going get worse on the LPGA tour.

Edited July 27, 2021 by tiger1873