Dr Kwon

[Hilts1969]

3 hours ago, 623baller said:

yea its a weird feeling that im still trying to get a good hang of as well.

 

but i would say after your weight transfer to lead foot and you push off the ground, your arms should just follow your body like a whip or rope if that makes sense. if you focus too much on your hands then you are gona be swinging with them instead of your feet to lower body then to shoulder

 

I like the backswing stuff I had been incorporating the same ideas anyhow through the AMG stuff. The final turn and let the arms go is not for me, too many pulls and hooks. The mature end of backswing/transition where the arms drop is something where I need to actively control the direction of the arms. Probably from decades of being a puller and holding off the release.

[GolfTurkey]

Dr Kwon shot my unicorn.

 

To elaborate, my 3 wood was my favourite club by far in spite of it being a CK Orange R flex and me swinging 3 wood 107-108ish. 
 

It worked with my slow backswing followed by an upper body lash at the ball. Now with a more “active backswing” I can feel the shaft whip around all over the place and I have completely lost all timing with it.

[Nels55]

Okay no more bowling bag:

 

The kettlebell is a lot better for doing the drill and I got a manual and a dvd!  Score!

 

And it was on close out at Big Five!

Edited January 30, 2022 by Nels55

[munchies2x]

18 hours ago, 623baller said:

yea its a weird feeling that im still trying to get a good hang of as well.

 

but i would say after your weight transfer to lead foot and you push off the ground, your arms should just follow your body like a whip or rope if that makes sense. if you focus too much on your hands then you are gona be swinging with them instead of your feet to lower body then to shoulder

Thanks, I am still trying to take this to the course, just finding really hard not to use arm at all. I can't seem to control the club face without at least using my right hand. What I am doing at the moment is to somehow still utilise my arms on the backswing but purely body on the downswing, so I can control the swing plane on the way up, thus I know it will align on the way down. Will keep working towards 100% body and see how it goes.

[munchies2x]

10 hours ago, GolfTurkey said:

Dr Kwon shot my unicorn.

 

To elaborate, my 3 wood was my favourite club by far in spite of it being a CK Orange R flex and me swinging 3 wood 107-108ish. 
 

It worked with my slow backswing followed by an upper body lash at the ball. Now with a more “active backswing” I can feel the shaft whip around all over the place and I have completely lost all timing with it.

 

Could be because you are gaining more speed now and you need stiffer shaft?

[GolfTurkey]

26 minutes ago, munchies2x said:

 

Could be because you are gaining more speed now and you need stiffer shaft?

I’m not sure if I’ve gained any speed yet because I’m still having to think my way through this stuff, but the backswing is definitely faster so the shaft is getting loaded totally differently in the backswing.

[PoeKingShankspeare]

There’s something to these step drills that’s showing up on the course and on the sim.

 

I’ve done step drills from other YouTube instructors in the past, but Dr. K explanations and in depth teaching is helping me understand these drills - I may not be doing them correctly, or exactly the way he wants it to be done, but it seems to be showing up when I play.
 

For one, more distance. Effortless distance with irons, hybrid, and fairway wood. Still trying to get used to hitting driver without wanting to smash that round ball on the tee. But when I do the “body swing” - hopefully correctly, Boy does the ball go. (But I’m producing too much spin and not enough AoA with driver)

 

Also, because I’m compressing the the ball better, I’m seeing much straighter flights. but still…. Old habits still creeps up and I still get active with my arms..

 

Work in (long) progress..

 

[Nels55]

On 1/28/2022 at 11:20 AM, golfarb1 said:

Is your spine tilt consistent with some of longest drivers in tour history ?And pound for pound the longest driver in the history of golf 

Jack Nicklaus

John Daley

Dustin Johnson

Bryson deChambeau 

Jamie Sadlowski 

What I learned from AMG+ is that tour pros spines are typically tilted around 3 degrees towards the target at lead arm parallel in the backswing.  They mentioned that the only way to see this tilt accurately was to use the GEARS system that they were using.  So, without putting the players that you provided pictures of on Qualisys or GEARS it is not possible to know if they actually do have similar movement patterns or if they are outliers.  I am not an expert in this and I don't know nor do I care as I am focused on applying what Dr. Kwon is teaching.  You see I have faith in his research and his method.  LOL you will never change a true believer's mind!

[dblinden]

13 hours ago, munchies2x said:

Thanks, I am still trying to take this to the course, just finding really hard not to use arm at all. I can't seem to control the club face without at least using my right hand. What I am doing at the moment is to somehow still utilise my arms on the backswing but purely body on the downswing, so I can control the swing plane on the way up, thus I know it will align on the way down. Will keep working towards 100% body and see how it goes.

 

Seems a pretty common experience to go from one extreme to the other. I would agree that one needs to feel an over-exaggeration in order to make a small change over time. However, it is a misunderstanding to think that a body swing without active incorporation of arms and hands is the ultimate goal. Defies common sense and reason to think you can have one without the other.  

[indianagolf2]

On 1/28/2022 at 1:26 PM, Redjeep83 said:

 

I agree they have limited time which is why I'm saying I think it takes him too long to teach it to them. He starts correcting them after 1-2 tries when they are just trying to get the order of stepping and swinging, that's not natural tendency. At least for me, I would like to try it for awhile before he starts correcting. I would get his corrections down must faster that way.

I agree with this. We all assume that when a method or instruction of any sort is approved or liked that it's method is correct. Kwon has the teschings..but the method of instruction could be different or better. 

[indianagolf2]

2 hours ago, Nels55 said:

What I learned from AMG+ is that tour pros spines are typically tilted around 3 degrees towards the target at lead arm parallel in the backswing.  They mentioned that the only way to see this tilt accurately was to use the GEARS system that they were using.  So, without putting the players that you provided pictures of on Qualisys or GEARS it is not possible to know if they actually do have similar movement patterns or if they are outliers.  I am not an expert in this and I don't know nor do I care as I am focused on applying what Dr. Kwon is teaching.  You see I have faith in his research and his method.  LOL you will never change a true believer's mind!

Amg + is granato golf ?? Out of both instructors there, which one did you feel was best for you ? 

[yoose]

Had a good range session yesterday. Really focused on rotating the hips separate from the upper body on the downswing then pushing down with the lead leg. Need to keep doing it so it becomes more natural but excited with the progress so far. 

[Nels55]

2 hours ago, indianagolf2 said:

Amg + is granato golf ?? Out of both instructors there, which one did you feel was best for you ? 

Yes I believe so, Athletic Motion Golf / Mike Granato.  I learned a fair amount from the videos once I figured out how to access them.  Mike Granato impressed me as the more knowledgeable of the two.

 

[indianagolf2]

2 hours ago, Nels55 said:

Yes I believe so, Athletic Motion Golf / Mike Granato.  I learned a fair amount from the videos once I figured out how to access them.  Mike Granato impressed me as the more knowledgeable of the two.

 

Appreciate it. 

[Nels55]

 

Pretty good one I think, top Canadian junior with a not so good arm swing to start with:

 

Omph Vijaaaaaay Singh!

Edited January 31, 2022 by Nels55

[ferrispgm]

I just emerged from the Kwon rabbit hole and would like to give my opinion fwiw.  

 

He isn't saying much, if anything, different from what most good instructors say.  He wants a full turn of the pelvis in the backswing via pressuring the ground.  Most if not all instructors want the trail hip to work up and back and the way to do it is by pushing into the ground.  Kwon wants you to increase your moment arm by pressuring down/left which most ppl teach as well.  Where he does differ though is the feeling of the body driving the takeaway which to me is a little sketchy but I'm assuming that's a feel to get you to use the ground in the backswing.  There are other items as well but these are the first that came to mind.  

What he is saying is very similar to most modern teachers, he just packages it in a different way and there is nothing wrong with that.  I do like how he takes a more detailed and scientific approach into it while explaining it clearly though.  The inner physics nerd in me likes that kind of thing.

[MK7Golf21]

22 minutes ago, ferrispgm said:

I just emerged from the Kwon rabbit hole and would like to give my opinion fwiw.  

 

He isn't saying much, if anything, different from what most good instructors say.  He wants a full turn of the pelvis in the backswing via pressuring the ground.  Most if not all instructors want the trail hip to work up and back and the way to do it is by pushing into the ground.  Kwon wants you to increase your moment arm by pressuring down/left which most ppl teach as well.  Where he does differ though is the feeling of the body driving the takeaway which to me is a little sketchy but I'm assuming that's a feel to get you to use the ground in the backswing.  There are other items as well but these are the first that came to mind.  

What he is saying is very similar to most modern teachers, he just packages it in a different way and there is nothing wrong with that.  I do like how he takes a more detailed and scientific approach into it while explaining it clearly though.  The inner physics nerd in me likes that kind of thing.

 

Yea I do too. I have heard about Kwon's research over the years but never really studied it or heard him teach it so I enjoyed watching what he was putting out onto youtube in a digestible fashion.

 

I agree on the body driven takeaway, it seems to me he is trying to get your body to use the ground. Most use a lot of arms during backswing and body takes a back seat as a result. It's interesting for sure.

[MPStrat]

On 1/28/2022 at 2:20 PM, golfarb1 said:

Is your spine tilt consistent with some of longest drivers in tour history ?And pound for pound the longest driver in the history of golf 

Jack Nicklaus

John Daley

Dustin Johnson

Bryson deChambeau 

Jamie Sadlowski 

 

 

I also brought this up a while back and have since found a better way of explaining the differentiation. The tilt toward the target thing is typically bad if you're doing it by losing hip flexion and standing up. The face on look of these guys having tilt away from the target is a result of them rotating while keeping their belly down. That's a must to keep inclination. Belly down, spine up. In other words, they keep hip flexion while the upper body extends and as result, they create the look of some amount of reverse K in the backswing. There are a few players that lose too much hip flexion and stand up like Sung Kang but even his teacher admits this is typically not a good thing. The timing of the spine extension is also important.

 

From a feel perspective, someone who doesn't extend the spine or rotate enough might have to feel like they tilt the entire trunk toward the target. Someone who stands up and reverse tilts might have to feel like they keep their belly down and stay in flexion in the backswing.

[ezra76]

Liking his videos. Combined with work I've been doing from my instuctor with width and release point I got a nice bump in swing speed. I was at about 96avg. with 98 high with a driver last months lesson. Went to a Callaway fitting event and was at about 99avg. and hit 102 high the other day. My kid and I are swinging a rope in the living room now, lol.

[GungHoGolf]

New videos today: Dr. Kwon focusing on trail elbow and how it being stuck affects a hand path vs club path mismatch:

 

 

and a one arm drill:

 

 

Edited February 1, 2022 by GungHoGolf

[Nels55]

Well, I guess the two videos above confirm that Dr. Kwon does teach the technical side of arm and club movement.

 

Edited February 1, 2022 by Nels55

[CasualLie]

On 1/30/2022 at 8:40 AM, indianagolf2 said:

Amg + is granato golf ?? Out of both instructors there, which one did you feel was best for you ? 

 

I believe Mike and Shaun teach together now.  It's a package deal if you visit in person; you get the wisdom of both instructors.

[indianagolf2]

1 hour ago, CasualLie said:

 

I believe Mike and Shaun teach together now.  It's a package deal if you visit in person; you get the wisdom of both instructors.

Oh ok. Wasn't sure if you could pick one over the other. Thanks for the info 

[Zitlow]

 

No motorcycle move? 😧

 

[rondo01]

3 hours ago, pressure said:

The hands from the top initially seek to circle around the club head, the club head does not circle around the hands until they trade ends late with the club head acquiring angular momentum from the trade. 

 

 

Great video.

Can someone more knowledgable than I agree or disagree: this is teaching what Dan Martin is getting at with his training aid, right? 

[PracticeSwinger]

That's one of the most interesting image from those videos... showing how the club and hands are on different paths (both rectangles) - because of her trail arm being stuck

 

 

Edited February 1, 2022 by MtlJayMan

[munchies2x]

Yes, that is very interesting, never seen both hand and club swing planes shown like that. I think this is crucial for more consistency.

[GungHoGolf]

14 hours ago, MtlJayMan said:

That's one of the most interesting image from those videos... showing how the club and hands are on different paths (both rectangles) - because of her trail arm being stuck

 

 

 

I noticed that, too. My first reaction was that the difference in paths might be explained by the divergence of the clubhead lagging the hands: the hands pulling up and in while the clubhead is still going down and out. 

 

I’ll take a look through the tour player database of our Gears system to see what they’re doing, but I suspect the good doctor knows what he’s talking about when he spotted this as a problem. 

[PracticeSwinger]

20 minutes ago, GungHoGolf said:

 

I noticed that, too. My first reaction was that the difference in paths might be explained by the divergence of the clubhead lagging the hands: the hands pulling up and in while the clubhead is still going down and out. 

 

I’ll take a look through the tour player database of our Gears system to see what they’re doing, but I suspect the good doctor knows what he’s talking about when he spotted this as a problem. 

I'm there also... isn't that was always taught; shaft lean, exit left, hands going up / club path in-to-out, face closing in the hitting zone... then, pretty sure as he explains it, it's not optimal kinetic wise to have what's holding one end of the club going in a different direction then the other end... maybe explained by shaft bending, whip action?... very interesting to see what the tour databse shows

[Nard_S]

The graphics show the basics of "getting stuck", rings true (especially to me) with driver. Like the key of getting upper arm, elbow straight down vertical at shaft parallel. The freedom to get arms more in front early on while holding "connection" is what I constantly wrestle with.  It's everything, not just hands and arms to do it. It goes back to the active body rotation he advocates.