Squaring face to path

[joshsparham]

Confirmed yesterday using trackman that with my driver I'm almost always 3 to 5 degrees open to my path with the face. Mostly 1-2 degrees in to out with path but face more open. Push cut city. Puts tons of spin on and losing distance. Tried everything I could to close the face and couldn't do it. 

 

What's worked for you in the past? Thoughts, feels, real adjustments. 

[tthomasgolfer605]

8 minutes ago, joshsparham said:

Confirmed yesterday using trackman that with my driver I'm almost always 3 to 5 degrees open to my path with the face. Mostly 1-2 degrees in to out with path but face more open. Push cut city. Puts tons of spin on and losing distance. Tried everything I could to close the face and couldn't do it. 

 

What's worked for you in the past? Thoughts, feels, real adjustments. 

Only with driver? 

[moehogan]

11 minutes ago, joshsparham said:

Confirmed yesterday using trackman that with my driver I'm almost always 3 to 5 degrees open to my path with the face. Mostly 1-2 degrees in to out with path but face more open. Push cut city. Puts tons of spin on and losing distance. Tried everything I could to close the face and couldn't do it. 

 

What's worked for you in the past? Thoughts, feels, real adjustments. 

Try increasing the grip pressure of the middle finger of your trail hand.

[joshsparham]

31 minutes ago, tthomasgolfer605 said:

Only with driver? 

Pretty much. Overall I'd say it's a problem but driver it's amplified. It my irons very straight. 

 

I have tried things like stronger grip but haven't seen the numbers change. 

 

Overall I think I have an open face coming in on about everything just bigger problem with driver. Worst club in my bag by far

[tthomasgolfer605]

14 minutes ago, joshsparham said:

Pretty much. Overall I'd say it's a problem but driver it's amplified. It my irons very straight. 

 

I have tried things like stronger grip but haven't seen the numbers change. 

 

Overall I think I have an open face coming in on about everything just bigger problem with driver. Worst club in my bag by far

I've seen several posts where people 'only' have problems with driver. The standard length is often the problem as well as the wrong shaft. What are the driver specs?

[PracticeSwinger]

1 hour ago, joshsparham said:

Confirmed yesterday using trackman that with my driver I'm almost always 3 to 5 degrees open to my path with the face. Mostly 1-2 degrees in to out with path but face more open. Push cut city. Puts tons of spin on and losing distance. Tried everything I could to close the face and couldn't do it. 

 

What's worked for you in the past? Thoughts, feels, real adjustments. 

Using WRX lingo; i’d go NTC Cast B

[scooterhd2]

Shorten driver, adjust loft up to close, add or move weight to the heel. 

[dsmil]

I'm similar, being in to out with all clubs.  The difference being that I'm open to path with my driver (push cuts) and closed to path with irons (push draws).  I just live the with the cut and adjust my aim.  Now at 3-5 degrees open, reducing that would be nice, and I agree with the poster above about adjusting the head to the loft up setting, which closes the face.  It seems like the easiest thing to try before having to adjust other things.

Edited December 30, 2021 by dsmil

[joshsparham]

1 hour ago, tthomasgolfer605 said:

I've seen several posts where people 'only' have problems with driver. The standard length is often the problem as well as the wrong shaft. What are the driver specs?

 

Mavrik SZ set to 10 degrees with HZRDUS Smoke Black 60g 6.5  

 

I usually use N setup but even tried the draw setting and nothing changed. 

[dsmil]

4 minutes ago, joshsparham said:

 

Mavrik SZ set to 10 degrees with HZRDUS Smoke Black 60g 6.5  

 

I usually use N setup but even tried the draw setting and nothing changed. 

 

Is it the 9 degree or 10.5 degree head?  Whatever it is, it can be lofted up 2 degrees which I believe in theory could close the face 4 degrees.  I believe this would do more than any draw setting would.  According to the website, the SZ is neutral while the Mavrik and Mavrik Max are draw biased.

Edited December 30, 2021 by dsmil

[joshsparham]

3 minutes ago, dsmil said:

 

Is it the 9 degree or 10.5 degree head?  Whatever it is, it can be lofted up 2 degrees which I believe in theory could close the face 4 degrees.  I believe this would do more than any draw setting would.  According to the website, the SZ is neutral while the Mavrik and Mavrik Max are draw biased.

 

It's the 9 degree head and I need the SZ because of spin.  I was launching the 10 degree setting in the right launch window so I don't know about adding another degree to the head.  I would be up in the 15+ degree launch window.

[tthomasgolfer605]

35 minutes ago, joshsparham said:

 

Mavrik SZ set to 10 degrees with HZRDUS Smoke Black 60g 6.5  

 

I usually use N setup but even tried the draw setting and nothing changed. 

What's the length?

 

[AndersUK]

As others have mentioned, driver is not fit correctly for you.  Change the back weight for one at least 5g lighter.  Then add a little lead tape to make up the difference in weight but stick it closer to the heel.  This will help the head turn over more naturally.

 

Failing that, move to a head that has a sliding weight adjustment at the back.

 

I play a TSI3 head with the back weight in a draw setting for the exact same reason.  It just helps square the club face without having to force it by manipulating the swing.

[AndersUK]

Also, if you are consistently hitting the middle then I wouldn't reduce the length at this time.

[tthomasgolfer605]

Folks. The driver shouldn't require a different swing. Just a setup and/or specs adjustment.

[joshsparham]

1 minute ago, tthomasgolfer605 said:

What's the length?

 

 

Standard....so I guess in today's world 45.5 inches

 

I do hit the middle pretty often. 

 

I have the heavy weight of the driver in the front and lighter weight in the back

[tthomasgolfer605]

14 minutes ago, joshsparham said:

 

Standard....so I guess in today's world 45.5 inches

 

I do hit the middle pretty often. 

 

I have the heavy weight of the driver in the front and lighter weight in the back

Most professionals don't even use 45.5" for a reason. I wouldn't be surprised if you shortened it an inch to an inch and a half you'd hit it much better. 

[wagolfer7]

21 minutes ago, tthomasgolfer605 said:

Folks. The driver shouldn't require a different swing. Just a setup and/or specs adjustment.

 

True.  But he is also saying it's not just driver.  

 

2 hours ago, joshsparham said:

Pretty much. Overall I'd say it's a problem but driver it's amplified. It my irons very straight. 

 

I have tried things like stronger grip but haven't seen the numbers change. 

 

Overall I think I have an open face coming in on about everything just bigger problem with driver. Worst club in my bag by far

 

Just like any other swing flaw - it's harder to compensate the longer the club.  So he's probably hitting 8-PW straight, but beyond that it starts to go a little right or at least consistency starts to drop off.  

 

You either find a band-aid like shortened shaft, weight movement, moving ball position,  choke down, etc.  Or you take the red pill and go down the rabbit hole.    

 

[bladehunter]

48 minutes ago, tthomasgolfer605 said:

Folks. The driver shouldn't require a different swing. Just a setup and/or specs adjustment.

I’d love to believe that.  But it’s just never going to be true. You’re hitting it off a 2-4 inch tee , and it’s 45 or more inches long.  It’s also the club with the longest distance from the face rotation center to its toe.  Which is just math. It’s going to take longer to close. 
 

sure. You can shrink it to 43 inches and/or get a smaller head and nail it everytime.  But. The rub is - you just described the modern strong 3 wood.  They will  go the same distance give or take 2-5 yards.  
 

i worked my butt off and continue to do so to keep driver online , and long enough to justify carrying it , and I can not practice 3 wood or hybrid for a month , and will never have a day where I can’t control them.  Just doesn’t happen. 

[Ri_Redneck]

Our hands release naturally based on the MOI of the club. Reduce the head weight by a 2-4 grams and see if closure doesn't start to come around.

 

BT

Edited December 30, 2021 by Ri_Redneck

[bladehunter]

In my opinion the answer is zeroing out path as much as you can , and not aiming for a draw. Aim up the middle and play whichever way it falls.  Very few people can successfully draw modern drivers over 45 inches.  Rory is 1….. Bryson occasionally controls it ( fairways ).  Most don’t try , they hit a fade.    I see a draw too. And hit one with everything else. But it’s really hard with modern drivers plus speed. Takes perfect timing. 

[me05501]

Check this video out. Could be as simple as setting your driver face a little closed at address to get it to square up at impact. 

 

As is clear in the video, he's not talking about closing the face with your hands/wrists/grip. He's actually rotating the shaft 2-3 degrees in the same grip. Release club, rotate shaft clockwise, re-apply grip. Really simple and he explains in detail why it is fundamentally correct rather than a band-aid. 

 

 

Edited December 30, 2021 by me05501

[tthomasgolfer605]

19 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

I’d love to believe that.  But it’s just never going to be true. You’re hitting it off a 2-4 inch tee , and it’s 45 or more inches long.  It’s also the club with the longest distance from the face rotation center to its toe.  Which is just math. It’s going to take longer to close. 
 

sure. You can shrink it to 43 inches and/or get a smaller head and nail it everytime.  But. The rub is - you just described the modern strong 3 wood.  They will  go the same distance give or take 2-5 yards.  
 

i worked my butt off and continue to do so to keep driver online , and long enough to justify carrying it , and I can not practice 3 wood or hybrid for a month , and will never have a day where I can’t control them.  Just doesn’t happen. 

If you used a smaller head with the same loft of the driver it'll go as far as a 460cc head. Added forgiveness is all a big headed driver will give you. 

[dsmil]

2 hours ago, joshsparham said:

 

It's the 9 degree head and I need the SZ because of spin.  I was launching the 10 degree setting in the right launch window so I don't know about adding another degree to the head.  I would be up in the 15+ degree launch window.

 

I believe that adding another degree simply closes the face.  If you do everything else exactly the same, the face will just close more and you shouldn't start hitting it higher, but you'll make that face to path relationship tighter.  The higher launch only comes into play if you override that closed face at address by either opening the face even more than you normally do at impact or by opening the face at address and then regripping the club.  I would at least see what the 11 degree setting does for you.

[tthomasgolfer605]

54 minutes ago, wagolfer7 said:

 

True.  But he is also saying it's not just driver.  

 

 

Just like any other swing flaw - it's harder to compensate the longer the club.  So he's probably hitting 8-PW straight, but beyond that it starts to go a little right or at least consistency starts to drop off.  

 

You either find a band-aid like shortened shaft, weight movement, moving ball position,  choke down, etc.  Or you take the red pill and go down the rabbit hole.    

 

Shortening the shaft and ball position aren't band-aids. Most people are using clubs too long and upright to begin with. All this technology with the ball spinning less, longer/bigger headed clubs for more distance, upright clubs in attempt do rid people of the slice etc. and people are still hacking it around all over the world. 

[joshsparham]

3 minutes ago, dsmil said:

 

I believe that adding another degree simply closes the face.  If you do everything else exactly the same, the face will just close more and you shouldn't start hitting it higher, but you'll make that face to path relationship tighter.  The higher launch only comes into play if you override that closed face at address by either opening the face even more than you normally do at impact or by opening the face at address and then regripping the club.  I would at least see what the 11 degree setting does for you.

 

Ok it is a simple adjustment to give a shot.  I will try it out.  

 

Also, to those out there I am not trying to draw the ball.  I honestly want it to go straight with either a little move left or right.  These are starting out the right and going fairly far offline.  I am all for a little cut but this was more than that.  The kicker is when I play the push cut and it goes straight or I get a pull. 

[wagolfer7]

1 minute ago, tthomasgolfer605 said:

Shortening the shaft and ball position aren't band-aids. Most people are using clubs too long and upright to begin with. All this technology with the ball spinning less, longer/bigger headed clubs for more distance, upright clubs in attempt do rid people of the slice etc. and people are still hacking it around all over the world. 

 

I don't disagree with you on shortened shaft and ball position being band-aids.    

 

But we know nothing about the OP, his swing and his game.  

 

If he's pushing / fading his longer irons, hybrids, 3 wood and other clubs as well, then customizing the driver equipment alone is not a permanent solution. 

 

Maybe he's putting the driver ball position in the middle of his stance.  Maybe he's playing it too far forward that he's swaying into the ball.  Maybe, maybe, maybe.  Lot of possibilities here.  We're all guessing with limited to no information.    

[Cwebb]

2 hours ago, Ri_Redneck said:

Our hands release naturally based on the MOI of the club. Reduce the head weight by a 2-4 grams and see if closure doesn't start to come around.

 

BT

 

Agree that the MOI is likely too high compared to his other clubs, which makes this driver require a different timing and release.  Two ways to lower the MOI, reduce the head weight or shorten the length.  It doesn't take much length reduction to lower the MOI significantly.  Just a half inch can make a big difference.

 

I'd start by simply choking down .5-.75", just to see what happens.  Even if you don't want to play the driver choked up, it will give you an idea of what a shorter length might do

[bladehunter]

2 hours ago, tthomasgolfer605 said:

If you used a smaller head with the same loft of the driver it'll go as far as a 460cc head. Added forgiveness is all a big headed driver will give you. 

Right. But.  The definition of the “ modern driver is “ at least 45 inches.  And 460cc.   Anything less is a 2 wood by any definition.  As it gaps to a modern 3 wood.  All these folks cutting a modern driver down to 44 and claiming they’re easy to hit , are t really hitting a modern driver in my opinion.   
 

i agree on the smaller head.  If you could buy one that has the same launch characteristics.  I just preformed this trial and error.  300 mini 11.5 head turned down tp 9.5.  Launched like a pig.  But was 4 mph faster swing speed. Same shaft in comparison.  So more speed and more spin , with less launch.  Equaled same as modern driver.   CT or cor isn’t the whole equation. You’d need an walk head that launches high and allows for the potential of low spin with a perfect strike.  That head doesn’t exist.  Not smaller than 400 cc. 

[bladehunter]

3 hours ago, me05501 said:

Check this video out. Could be as simple as setting your driver face a little closed at address to get it to square up at impact. 

 

As is clear in the video, he's not talking about closing the face with your hands/wrists/grip. He's actually rotating the shaft 2-3 degrees in the same grip. Release club, rotate shaft clockwise, re-apply grip. Really simple and he explains in detail why it is fundamentally correct rather than a band-aid. 

 

 

This ^.  I’ve always done this. I never could understand why folks can’t get that you close the club.  Then grip it. Then swing so that the face returns .      But alas. It’s still prone to the high right miss.   Which is why I still subscribe to the aim  up there middle approach.  I’m just not hitting a hook with it. So worse is right rough.