Cracked ball forensics

[cardigan]

Below is one of the best explanations that I've seen posted in the past but if you are of the belief that a ball hitting a net/screen a short distance away at close to full speed and full spin does not deform at all and the impact has basically the same effect as a ball flying through the air, decelerating naturally, landing on grass and rolling out, then it won't mean much.  It's understandable.  I don't think anyone would have a problem believing that hitting a steel beam, brick wall, or a tree at that distance with that much speed and spin would impact a ball but I can see having doubts that screen/net would have "significant" impact without seeing high speed pictures, x-rays, etc.  I doubt if anyone has done that kind of experimentation and put the information out there for public consumption.

 

 

 

 

[Nels55]

6 hours ago, Stuart_G said:

But then if speculation wasn't allowed in the forums, we'd have to remove about 99.9% of the online content here 🙂

That's pure speculation on your part!

[Nels55]

3 hours ago, cardigan said:

Below is one of the best explanations that I've seen posted in the past but if you are of the belief that a ball hitting a net/screen a short distance away at close to full speed and full spin does not deform at all and the impact has basically the same effect as a ball flying through the air, decelerating naturally, landing on grass and rolling out, then it won't mean much.  It's understandable.  I don't think anyone would have a problem believing that hitting a steel beam, brick wall, or a tree at that distance with that much speed and spin would impact a ball but I can see having doubts that screen/net would have "significant" impact without seeing high speed pictures, x-rays, etc.  I doubt if anyone has done that kind of experimentation and put the information out there for public consumption.

 

 

 

 

I do not really have any preconceived notions on this subject.  LOL it may seemed like I was arguing something that I was not intending and that is a difficulty of internet discussions.

 

I do believe that more damage is done at impact with the club then with the screen and I have seen cracked balls in range buckets and on the course .  That said it makes sense that hitting a screen could cause further damage.  Also if makes sense that the damage caused by a screen being hit at full speed should be greater then hitting the grass at an angle after slowing down.  What the significance is I do not know.  Also it is possible that ball is also damaged by bouncing on a hard surface like a garage floor after hitting the net.  

 

It would be interesting to see high speed video of a ball screen collision...

 

The post that you referenced mentioned that the ball is spinning at 2000 rpm or more and that spin is slowed by some amount or possibly stopped by the screen which adds stress.  The stress would be greater at clubhead impact though because there the ball went from 0 rpm to 2000+ rpm in 5/10,000 seconds which I suspect is considerably faster then the screen collision where the ball may still be spinning after hitting the screen.  Or maybe the spin gets reversed like hitting a table tennis ball LOL don't know!

 

 

[Fairways_and_Greens]

The only balls I’ve seen crack are ones that take a lot of wedge shots. Wedges are tougher on the nets than drivers too. 

[Stuart_G]

5 hours ago, Nels55 said:

It would be interesting to see high speed video of a ball screen collision...

 

Agree - that would be a good start.

[arbeck]

22 hours ago, Nels55 said:

I do not really have any preconceived notions on this subject.  LOL it may seemed like I was arguing something that I was not intending and that is a difficulty of internet discussions.

 

I do believe that more damage is done at impact with the club then with the screen and I have seen cracked balls in range buckets and on the course .  That said it makes sense that hitting a screen could cause further damage.  Also if makes sense that the damage caused by a screen being hit at full speed should be greater then hitting the grass at an angle after slowing down.  What the significance is I do not know.  Also it is possible that ball is also damaged by bouncing on a hard surface like a garage floor after hitting the net.  

 

It would be interesting to see high speed video of a ball screen collision...

 

The post that you referenced mentioned that the ball is spinning at 2000 rpm or more and that spin is slowed by some amount or possibly stopped by the screen which adds stress.  The stress would be greater at clubhead impact though because there the ball went from 0 rpm to 2000+ rpm in 5/10,000 seconds which I suspect is considerably faster then the screen collision where the ball may still be spinning after hitting the screen.  Or maybe the spin gets reversed like hitting a table tennis ball LOL don't know!

 

 

You are correct, That club impact is more stressful than the screen or net impact. The point I was trying to make in that original post that was quoted was that hitting into a screen or net is much more stressful on the ball then playing a normal round of golf with it. Continually hitting the ball into a net or screen is going to wear the ball faster and will introduce a point of failure faster than just playing normal golf. It's also nearly impossible to know if it cracked on impact with the club or impact with the screen without high speed cameras. It's possible either is the case. The initial club impact could have deformed the ball enough that the screen impact put it over the edge. Or it could have cracked on the impact with the club and just gotten worse when it hit the screen.

[Nels55]

This ball was one tough nut to crack, it took thousands of hits and the cover is pretty much worn off:

This is a Wilson Staff Model ball that I evaluated here for one of the give away contests.   Seem like the balls were rather well made...

[3PuttLefty]

I would love to crack a ball. Problem  is i probably average 10 full swings per ball before it lost or wet!!!  

[Nels55]

On 4/17/2022 at 8:31 AM, 3PuttLefty said:

I would love to crack a ball. Problem  is i probably average 10 full swings per ball before it lost or wet!!!  

I don't lose many hitting in my garage!  At times there have been some balls from some manufactures that cracked really fast and some actually were cracked in play but I think that you are right and most golfers are not in much danger of cracking a ball before it gets lost permanently.

[sirukuma]

I would suggest there are a couple of dynamics at play to explain why a ball may crack more frequently hitting into an indoor screen vs. an outdoor range.

1. The outdoor range ball will get hit much fewer times per day than at an indoor simulator facility.  The range I most frequent can get busy and even during a busy day, I doubt it gets fully picked more than 4X-5X/day.  Worst case if the facility has a limited supply of balls and they turn over what they pick back into circulation immediately, a single ball might get hit 4 or maybe 5 times a day.  Indoor, if you have the same 5-10 balls in a booth you could easily hit any single one of those balls 15-20 times in a single session.  
2. Both indoor and outdoor, the affect of club hitting the ball should be equivalent.    Indoors, I agree that the energy from the negative acceleration of the ball hitting the screen at high velocity is significantly less than the energy from the club at impact.   While this difference may not make a difference on initiating the crack, I know that the energy required to propagate a crack once it starts is orders of magnitude less than what it takes to get the crack to first appear.  This extra stress put on the ball by impacting a screen at high velocity could cause the crack to propagate faster and cause the ball to completely fail faster than what you would see on a ball from an outdoor range.
 

 

[Curmudg3on]

7 hours ago, sirukuma said:

Indoor, if you have the same 5-10 balls in a booth you could easily hit any single one of those balls 15-20 times in a single session.  

 

At our indoor simulator we have 4 people using the same ball for 18 holes.   They crack more frequently, I'm guessing, because they are hit more often.  

[Nels55]

I switched to Mevo+ and I got some RCT radar ProV1 balls to use so I don't have to be careful about lining up the dot on the ball before hitting it.  Here is one that cracked after some time:

 

I cut it open and the crack looked typical:

 

I wondered about where the radar tracking metal or whatever was so I cut the ball up and peeled the cover off:

 

Must be those stripes!  Here is a look at the cover partially assembled:

So, I guess that is how they did it!

LOL sort of interesting I guess...

 

 

Edited June 26, 2023 by Nels55

[Stuart_G]

 

14 hours ago, Nels55 said:

 

I wondered about where the radar tracking metal or whatever was

 

 

They show you right here:

picture of the reflective material on a "cut away" ball half way down the page.

https://www.titleist.com/rct

 

Looks to me like you're just seeing discoloration that's a side effect from the addition, not the actual reflective material.

[Nels55]

2 hours ago, Stuart_G said:

 

 

They show you right here:

picture of the reflective material on a "cut away" ball half way down the page.

https://www.titleist.com/rct

 

Looks to me like you're just seeing discoloration that's a side effect from the addition, not the actual reflective material.

I am pretty certain that the stripes are the reflective material.  What I called the cover is actually made of what appears to be two layers.  Here I have peeled back the outer layer which is the Urethane and you can see the reflective material quite clearly:

I am not sure what it is made of as I tested it with my ohm meter and it does not seem to be conductive.

[Nels55]

I was playing 'golf' one E6 this morning and I made a swing with my driver that felt like pretty good swing but impact felt like I hit a piece of popcorn and there was a muted sound of the ball hitting the screen.  LOL I ducked my head instinctively thinking that something might have gone very wrong.  I looked around and found that the chrome soft ball I was using for driver swings had split in half:

 

This has not happened to me for a long time though I do seem to remember a ball cracking in half while playing many years ago.  I had checked the ball for visible cracks at some point and had not seen any.  I guess that it was cracked on the inside and ready to go when I hit it.  It cracked right under the metallic radar dot which is sort of interesting.  

[ode]

I've cracked two in normal play a Maxfli Tour and OnCore Elixir, both the yellow model. I believe those two balls share a same/similar cover.

[Nels55]

1 hour ago, ode said:

I've cracked two in normal play a Maxfli Tour and OnCore Elixir, both the yellow model. I believe those two balls share a same/similar cover.

Cracked or split in half?  I have cracked many balls hitting inside but having one split in half is a bit of a rarity.  

[ode]

@Nels55

Edited November 10, 2023 by ode

[bcjim]

I've noticeably damaged balls a couple of times by blading a full wedge.  I wonder if that kind of impact is generally more damaging?  

[ShortGolfer]

Amazingly, in three years, I've only cracked one ball.  I flushed a drive and it hit a tree behind the green.

This summer I've been doing daily wedge practice in my back yard with a wide assortment of golf balls. 

It is skewed toward cheap balls but there are some old urethane balls in the bucket.

Many have tree rash.  I cleaned the mud off them yesterday and didn't see any cracks.

I was taking 20 yard lob shots with the 60 CB yesterday.

Edited November 12, 2023 by ShortGolfer

[Nels55]

Here are a couple of more cracked Chrome Soft balls.  The balls are being hit with driver with the radar dot facing the target.  They blow open on the opposite side of the hit.  One of them had a big chunk fly out of it:

[cardia10]

A golf ball on the course lasts maybe 55-85 full shots in its life. For some reason, we expect them to last 1,000 shots on a simulator without breaking down I guess. 

[Nels55]

On 1/2/2024 at 7:58 AM, cardia10 said:

A golf ball on the course lasts maybe 55-85 full shots in its life. For some reason, we expect them to last 1,000 shots on a simulator without breaking down I guess. 

Actually after years of hitting balls into nets I expect them to crack right away LOL.  The problem is that I am cheap and I like to keep hitting them as long as possible... 

 

I squeeze the life out of the toothpaste tube before I throw it away.  My parents grew up in the great depression and I did learn something about being frugal from them.