Very Grainy Bermuda Fairways

[cardoustie]

Guys 

 

new to a club in Venice Florida and struggling with iron shots from the fairway.  Just came down from Myrtle Beach and was not having the same issues fwiw

 

The grass is very VERY tight in most places and the grainiest I have ever seen in my life.  Into the grain full shots is problematic.

 

I am a steep swinger and like to play knockdown cuts with my shorter irons, often these catch and I get weakish short right flares

 

Seems the move even for +3 golfers is to putt from miles off the green as well

 

Advice?  I am listening.

 

Trying my 919t set vs my zx7 tomorrow, seemed a little better at the range last night. Fairways, hybrids and driving irons seem almost fine

[ThinkingPlus]

I presume you are talking more about partial wedges and little pitches rather than full shots with 8 irons or 9 irons.  While this is not foolproof it can help with the lies you describe.  Basically you play bounce, but with a pretty full swing.  You move the handle back to near vertical (little to no shaft lean) exposing bounce then make a pretty full swing and present the club at impact the same way with little to no shaft lean.  Let the club pass your hands.  You are trying to skid the club under the ball somewhat through impact.

 

The ball will come out higher than normal, but you do minimize the sticky grab of the grainy bermuda.  You can also open the face a bit which will allow a bit more forward shaft lean.  You'll have to take more club and calibrate distance, but it gives you a chance at some predictability.

 

If the green will accept low shots, you can also try to hood wedges and hit low, hooking pitches.  Hood the club keeping the heel off the ground and sweep a low hooking shoot.  Should get some bounces then some late check.  I have only tried this with more bump and runs greenside, but longer shots should be doable. 

 

Good luck.  The conditions you describe are tough to deal with.

[bladehunter]

Uncle card.  My home course is this way.  The honest answer is , nothing will cut that mess like an older blade leading edge.  The second part is the opposite of steep.  It’s exactly what trained my swing to be shallow.
 

i know neither of those help.  Really. But it’s a different animal that really can be tricky.   

[bladehunter]

1 hour ago, ThinkingPlus said:

I presume you are talking more about partial wedges and little pitches rather than full shots with 8 irons or 9 irons.  While this is not foolproof it can help with the lies you describe.  Basically you play bounce, but with a pretty full swing.  You move the handle back to near vertical (little to no shaft lean) exposing bounce then make a pretty full swing and present the club at impact the same way with little to no shaft lean.  Let the club pass your hands.  You are trying to skid the club under the ball somewhat through impact.

 

The ball will come out higher than normal, but you do minimize the sticky grab of the grainy bermuda.  You can also open the face a bit which will allow a bit more forward shaft lean.  You'll have to take more club and calibrate distance, but it gives you a chance at some predictability.

 

If the green will accept low shots, you can also try to hood wedges and hit low, hooking pitches.  Hood the club keeping the heel off the ground and sweep a low hooking shoot.  Should get some bounces then some late check.  I have only tried this with more bump and runs greenside, but longer shots should be doable. 

 

Good luck.  The conditions you describe are tough to deal with.

Yes.  This. ^. My swing Also has a neutral handle compared to the forward press you see on tv.  Especially on shortgame shots.  

[aenemated]

Funny; that's the sort of turf I grew up playing on. Feels like there's a good quarter inch of thick bermuda the ball just sits up on. 

 

Took me forever to get accustomed to the tighter/firmer cuts we tend to see out west. Don't get me started on poa. 

[ThinkingPlus]

15 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Yes.  This. ^. My swing Also has a neutral handle compared to the forward press you see on tv.  Especially on shortgame shots.  

I mostly am handle forward, but switch to neutral when the lie dictates.  In fact, I pay more attention to lie now than ever before.  It is an area I have improved upon.  Stupid little things like take an extra club off hard pan because the strike will generally be thin and you won't get the expected carry has saved me some strokes.  So many nuances of lie that you can spend forever trying to figure out.

[nsxguy]

Well, you guys are much better players than I am but the tight lies/Bermuda combo in South Florida used to drive me nutz.

 

The excellent advice we've been given for many years now is that for pretty much any "trouble shot", we should play the ball back slightly to make sure we catch "ball first".

 

For full shots, tight lies being very common here in SoFla, that's what I've come to do down here. Up in the northeast, the ball just sits nicely most of the time, almost as if on a short tee.

 

As for putting from "miles" goes, only the higher handicap oldtimers I've played with do that. They're not very confident in making clean contact with a chip so they putt from distance.

 

I spent a LOT of time working on my chipping when I got down here because of these sticky Bermuda fairways and fringes.

 

I'd putt the ball from literally 2 feet off the green to a flagstick maybe 20 feet away and over and over again the grass would either grab the ball and leave me 5-6 feet short or, when I'd hit it a bit harder, just "release" the ball and I'd be 5-6 feet long.

 

Drove me bananas.

 

Now I should say that the greens where I was (mostly) playing had fringes that were a bit hairy compared to the tight fairways so that was clearly a factor. Courses I'm playing lately have fringes that are closer to the fairway in height and I will sometimes putt through some 2-5 feet or so of the fringe - but mostly I'm chipping, even from fairly close to the green.

 

As for "miles" of fairway though, I ain't putting those. I've gotten very comfortable with the European style "bump".

[cardoustie]

The ball is sitting down on very tight bermuda.. there is no perched lies.   I play off very tight bent grass lies all summer with no issue

 

And I am talking full and partial shots

 

It is very strange.  Before you hit you can literally see the turf grabbing the club head on half practice swings … it’s almost Velcro like

 

I am working on shallowing of course …. and ball farther back but it sucks, it’s a foreign way to swing for me

Edited January 17, 2022 by cardoustie
Ball to club head

[hammergolf]

5 hours ago, cardoustie said:

Guys 

 

new to a club in Venice Florida and struggling with iron shots from the fairway.  Just came down from Myrtle Beach and was not having the same issues fwiw

 

The grass is very VERY tight in most places and the grainiest I have ever seen in my life.  Into the grain full shots is problematic.

 

I am a steep swinger and like to play knockdown cuts with my shorter irons, often these catch and I get weakish short right flares

 

Seems the move even for +3 golfers is to putt from miles off the green as well

 

Advice?  I am listening.

 

Trying my 919t set vs my zx7 tomorrow, seemed a little better at the range last night. Fairways, hybrids and driving irons seem almost fine

There isn’t much forgiveness on Bermuda. Most clubs tend to dig and get stuck instead of’ bouncing” out of the turf. Your ZX7 irons with definitely be better for you. The v sole works great for steep guys on tight lies. I had to make the opposite change when I moved up to the Midwest from Florida.

Edited January 16, 2022 by hammergolf

[vallygolf]

This will make you a better player long term.  Learning and growing up playing this type of turf I find rye and other cold weather grasses are much more forgiving , especially if you are a bit steep and catching ball and ground close to simultaneously (escecially with a cut, heel forward swing).  While no fun at first IMO it will make you a better overall golfer over time.

[ArtMBgolf]

9 hours ago, cardoustie said:

Guys 

 

new to a club in Venice Florida and struggling with iron shots from the fairway.  Just came down from Myrtle Beach and was not having the same issues fwiw

 

The grass is very VERY tight in most places and the grainiest I have ever seen in my life.  Into the grain full shots is problematic.

 

Advice?  I am listening.

 

 
Myrtle Beach has bermuda fairways also.   
Possibly the bermuda is thicker in FL, due to a longer growing season 
and possibly your course doesn't overseed for winter.    
  
If just that course, maybe the fairways are zoysia.  Just a guess.    
 
If you club is getting stuck, it should not ruin your shot, other than
lost distance with less follow through.     
 

[cardoustie]

3 hours ago, vallygolf said:

This will make you a better player long term.  Learning and growing up playing this type of turf I find rye and other cold weather grasses are much more forgiving , especially if you are a bit steep and catching ball and ground close to simultaneously (escecially with a cut, heel forward swing).  While no fun at first IMO it will make you a better overall golfer over time.

This I know and like

[cardoustie]

1 hour ago, ArtMBgolf said:

 
Myrtle Beach has bermuda fairways also.   
Possibly the bermuda is thicker in FL, due to a longer growing season 
and possibly your course doesn't overseed for winter.    
  
If just that course, maybe the fairways are zoysia.  Just a guess.    
 
If you club is getting stuck, it should not ruin your shot, other than
lost distance with less follow through.     
 

Missing a green is ruining my shot

 

my cap has gone from 1.6 to 3.8 in no time

 

I think I had an epiphany on the range with less leg action and more rotation with upper body … will see how it pans out next 3 rounds this week

 

[ChaosTheory]

Just moved to Texas from the north. 11 cap so not as precise as some of you.  Around the greens, I have had to stop trying to slide the bounce.  That’s a disaster here. 
 

Rather than trying to hit delofted SW or LW, I am having much better results using old fashioned chips with less loft.  Ball near back foot, toe down somewhat, hands always leading.   Often better to trundle up a slope with a PW to a close pin than to fly it up top.  
 

For more height, play it more forward, open stance, face open, hands still ahead of ball.  @ThinkingPlus mentioned the face open, hands ahead thing.  Even flops need the hands ahead, but with more opening of the face.  
 

These are all pretty shallow.  I’m practicing a lot, on the grabbiest tight dormant lies.  These shallow, hands leading shots work for me.

[cardoustie]

Almost 100 percent figured out now

 

ball farther back, hands ahead, wider away, less steep into ball ….

 

no surprises really, just very different feels compared to the northern grasses