distance debate

[clevited]

Anyways, back to some actual conversation after the usual interludes of mile's hypocrisy and insults.

 

@gvogel @Nard_S

 

I thought we had a good start to a conversation a while back.  You posted your thoughts, I countered with mine.  What say you?  This is how conversations go.  You say stuff, I asked questions make comments.  You answer questions and add comments etc etc etc.

 

I was hoping it would go somewhere.  I sure hope you guys aren't like miles and not interested in answering questions about potential flaws in your arguments, or elaborating on them.

[gvogel]

18 hours ago, Titleist99 said:

And clearly it stifled driving distance , had players hitting a multitude of irons into greens and kept the scores in single digits.......clearly, clearly the way to go instead of 8000 yard golf courses and the insane strategy of buying land.

 

Not to mention the destruction of the suggestions of little head drivers. 

When one designs a course like that, and it stifles driving, I think that it is pretty contrived.  And why would one want to stifle driving anyway, when long straight driving is one of the great skills in golf.

 

Better to cut back the overall driving distance so that the long, straight drivers have their advantage.

[gvogel]

14 hours ago, MUNIGRIT said:

No matter what you do the long guys will still be long and short guys will still be short and always at a disadvantage.

Which is as it should be!  I believe in a roll back - not to penalize the long player, or the short player, but to protect the golf course.

[gvogel]

10 hours ago, clevited said:

You either have slower/softer easier to hold fairways or you have firm and fast harder to hold fairways.  One gives you more of those feathery long irons people rave about, the other less of those and more shorter clubs.  Pick one rollbackers.  You can't have it all.

As a roll backer, I can't have any control over the conditions of the fairways.  Mother nature is going to take care of that.  All we can do is control the equipment.

[clevited]

2 minutes ago, gvogel said:

As a roll backer, I can't have any control over the conditions of the fairways.  Mother nature is going to take care of that.  All we can do is control the equipment.

 

Hairy fairways can make quite a big difference and that is how courses used to be back in the era of the vintage equipment you enjoy.  That is within the control of courses if they really want to fight distance.  

[MUNIGRIT]

38 minutes ago, gvogel said:

Which is as it should be!  I believe in a roll back - not to penalize the long player, or the short player, but to protect the golf course.

Easy solution. Make it par 70 instead of 72.

[milesgiles]

21 minutes ago, MUNIGRIT said:

Easy solution. Make it par 70 instead of 72.

 

that protects the score, which none of us care about, not the course, which we do.

[milesgiles]

57 minutes ago, clevited said:

 

Hairy fairways can make quite a big difference and that is how courses used to be back in the era of the vintage equipment you enjoy.  That is within the control of courses if they really want to fight distance.  

 

already been explained that it makes driving easier. Any time you make part of the game easier, you reduce the gaps between the top players.

 

 

[farmer]

Miles, just out of curiosity, specifically, what courses are you worried about?  No fair saying "all of them".  Would these courses ever be considered for big time tournament play?

[clevited]

8 minutes ago, milesgiles said:

 

already been explained that it makes driving easier. Any time you make part of the game easier, you reduce the gaps between the top players.

 

 

 

I am talking about your insistence that a smaller head is "enough".  I simply pointed out I don't think it is, and that I don't agree with just "trying it" as you say and I gave reasons why.  I am still waiting for you to address the holes in your head size shrinking idea and come up with a more measured and complete plan that would definitely address the problem you have with distance on the tour.

Edited May 10, 2022 by clevited

[milesgiles]

2 hours ago, clevited said:

Anyways, back to some actual conversation after the usual interludes of mile's hypocrisy and insults.

 

@gvogel @Nard_S

 

I thought we had a good start to a conversation a while back.  You posted your thoughts, I countered with mine.  What say you?  This is how conversations go.  You say stuff, I asked questions make comments.  You answer questions and add comments etc etc etc.

 

I was hoping it would go somewhere.  I sure hope you guys aren't like miles and not interested in answering questions about potential flaws in your arguments, or elaborating on them.

 

theres no arguing with someone who cant break 80 that says he can get a teed up 190cc driver in play at 300 plus yards without issue

[clevited]

5 minutes ago, milesgiles said:

 

theres no arguing with someone who cant break 80 that says he can get a teed up 190cc driver in play at 300 plus yards without issue

 

There is no arguing with someone that takes things out of context and manipulates them into something that was never said or eluded to.  Someone that also feels the need to insult someone's handicap even though it is worthless to his point of view but proves my point which is, if I can rattle off several bombs in a row with a modern 3 wood and launch them high and low spin and at full speed, then why in the world couldn't a tour pro that is consistent and more capable than I do it almost all the time????

 

You still have no arguement man, you try very poorly at dismissing me because you have NOTHING.

 

Edited: for clarity

Edited May 10, 2022 by clevited

[milesgiles]

13 minutes ago, farmer said:

Miles, just out of curiosity, specifically, what courses are you worried about?  No fair saying "all of them".  Would these courses ever be considered for big time tournament play?

 

I did list quite a few british ones earlier in the thread.  Certainly most courses that hold big tournaments have the resources to continually expand, but what do the other 99% do? My own course doesnt have the money but there are cross bunkers at 200 or so off the tee on several holes  (course is from 1935) that need moving.

Edited May 10, 2022 by milesgiles

[farmer]

So, list them again.  I haven't read every post.  

[So_Cal]

21 hours ago, Golferpaul said:

Good point, but the NBA has never raised their rim height despite the huge increase in players ability to dunk the ball.

 

Rolling back the golf ball would be like the NBA raising the rim to eleven feet.

Rolling back the golf ball is like raising the NBA rim from 8 to 10 feet.  The rim is way too low with modern tech IMO.  

[clevited]

6 minutes ago, So_Cal said:

Rolling back the golf ball is like raising the NBA rim from 8 to 10 feet.  The rim is way too low with modern tech IMO.  

 

I think the opposing point is that the rim never moved, always been at 10 feet but the basketball players have all become more capable of dunking yet you don't see it being increased to 11 ft.  The crowd loves the dunk, the crowd loves the long ball in golf.  With the 8 foot analogy you are just eluding to the increased capability of the basketball player to dunk these days, but it isn't really the right objective way to look at it.  They stayed the same, but the players got more taller and or more athletic.  Similar thing to golf (with more variables beyond just athleticism involved of course).

Edited May 10, 2022 by clevited

[MUNIGRIT]

51 minutes ago, milesgiles said:

 

that protects the score, which none of us care about, not the course, which we do.

The course is protected. Just because a couple hundred guys put of the whole population can't beat it up doesn't mean the course is obsolete.  There are plenty of 6 handicap pros shooting 85 from the tips doesn't mean the course is out dated. Your argument about whatever you decided was traditional size isn't going to fix pros destroying courses. 

[Titleist99]

1 hour ago, gvogel said:

When one designs a course like that, and it stifles driving, I think that it is pretty contrived.  And why would one want to stifle driving anyway, when long straight driving is one of the great skills in golf.

 

Better to cut back the overall driving distance so that the long, straight drivers have their advantage.

According to some on this fine board......driving isn't a skill at all. You just go to the sporting goods store and buy new equipment with all that technology and voila! You're a Touring Pro....Hitting it straight every time....

 

Why do the unknown when the obvious is right in front of you?

[milesgiles]

11 minutes ago, clevited said:

 

I think the opposing point is that the rim never moved, always been at 10 feet but the basketball players have all become more capable of dunking yet you don't see it being increased to 11 ft.  The crowd loves the dunk, the crowd loves the long ball in golf.  With the 8 foot analogy you are just eluding to the increased capability of the basketball player to dunk these days, but it isn't really the right objective way to look at it.  They stayed the same, but the players got more taller and or more athletic.  Similar thing to golf (with more variables beyond just athleticism involved of course).

 

you love the long ball so much you have never been to a tournament? What possible difference does it make on tv??

[milesgiles]

37 minutes ago, farmer said:

So, list them again.  I haven't read every post.  

 

do I have to list them again the next time someone asks me in a few pages time?

 

if you are sufficiently interested, read the thread.

[milesgiles]

9 minutes ago, MUNIGRIT said:

The course is protected. Just because a couple hundred guys put of the whole population can't beat it up doesn't mean the course is obsolete.  There are plenty of 6 handicap pros shooting 85 from the tips doesn't mean the course is out dated. Your argument about whatever you decided was traditional size isn't going to fix pros destroying courses. 

 

a 6 handicap pro?

[clevited]

3 minutes ago, milesgiles said:

 

you love the long ball so much you have never been to a tournament? What possible difference does it make on tv??

 

Ummm on tv I actually get to see where it lands.  

[So_Cal]

16 minutes ago, clevited said:

 

I think the opposing point is that the rim never moved, always been at 10 feet but the basketball players have all become more capable of dunking yet you don't see it being increased to 11 ft.  The crowd loves the dunk, the crowd loves the long ball in golf.  With the 8 foot analogy you are just eluding to the increased capability of the basketball player to dunk these days, but it isn't really the right objective way to look at it.  They stayed the same, but the players got more taller and or more athletic.  Similar thing to golf (with more variables beyond just athleticism involved of course).

Long drives have nothing to do with dunking.  Golf is relatively boring to watch.  Modern golf tech is like having trampoline floors for basketball.  Rolling the ball back 15% for majors is the equivalent of removing trampoline floors in basketball.  

[clevited]

4 minutes ago, So_Cal said:

Long drives have nothing to do with dunking.  Golf is relatively boring to watch.  Modern golf tech is like having trampoline floors for basketball.  Rolling the ball back 15% for majors is the equivalent of removing trampoline floors in basketball.  

 

I don't agree that it is that extreme at all.

[milesgiles]

5 minutes ago, clevited said:

 

Ummm on tv I actually get to see where it lands.  

 

its more entertaining if it lands at one arbritrary distance than another? 

 

So if we change the driver head to 190cc max and a 300y carry now becomes a 280y carry, you are less entertained?

 

extraordinary 

[MUNIGRIT]

27 minutes ago, milesgiles said:

 

a 6 handicap pro?

Absolutely. World is littered with them selling direct to consumer balls, plastic tees, range finders, cigar holders and doing stupid shows like shotmakers.shoemaker.

 

Oh yeah when you are done buying that stuff could you donate to my go fund me for Q school because it is expensive and then sign up for (insert betting app) expert betting advice even though I have no cluebwhat -110 next to the line means. 

Edited May 10, 2022 by MUNIGRIT

[clevited]

16 minutes ago, milesgiles said:

 

its more entertaining if it lands at one arbritrary distance than another? 

 

So if we change the driver head to 190cc max and a 300y carry now becomes a 280y carry, you are less entertained?

 

extraordinary 

 

Yes it is more entertaining.

 

It won't be 280 vs 300, it might be 298 vs 300 though.

[clevited]

@milesgiles

 

Serious question.  I know you have been on a bit of a quest for speed yourself.  Have you come to understand how insanely hard it is to carry 300 plus and keep it in play yet?  You being such a low capper I figured you must know.

[Titleist99]

32 minutes ago, clevited said:

 

I think the opposing point is that the rim never moved, always been at 10 feet but the basketball players have all become more capable of dunking yet you don't see it being increased to 11 ft.  The crowd loves the dunk, the crowd loves the long ball in golf.  With the 8 foot analogy you are just eluding to the increased capability of the basketball player to dunk these days, but it isn't really the right objective way to look at it.  They stayed the same, but the players got more taller and or more athletic.  Similar thing to golf (with more variables beyond just athleticism involved of course).

Worth repeating is the fact that the biggest proponent of raising the basket to 11 feet was John wooden of UCLA.

Thank Goodness they didn't listen to him....

[TLUBulldogGolf]

52 minutes ago, clevited said:

@milesgiles

 

Serious question.  I know you have been on a bit of a quest for speed yourself.  Have you come to understand how insanely hard it is to carry 300 plus and keep it in play yet?  You being such a low capper I figured you must know.

 

I'm not a pro by any means but it's a lot easier than it used to be. I keep getting longer and longer despite getting older. And I play twice a month at best. But I also don't subscribe to rolling back clubhead size, they would never roll it back far enough to make a difference at this point.

Edited May 10, 2022 by TLUBulldogGolf