Is equipment holding my 11 y/o back?

[MD_]

TL;dr - Are my 11 yo sons off the shelf Cobra King Jr clubs good enough for more competitive individual tournament golf?

 

 

 

Almost exactly 2 years ago I bought my son (then for his 9th birthday) an off the rack set of the Cobra King Jr clubs (D, 3W, H, 7, 9, SW, P + bag) ... basically these

 

At the time, buying him clubs was an excuse (to the wife) to get out on the course more myself and get back into playing shape without the guilt of leaving her home with 3 boys alone, and I wanted to get him something nice/quality (compared to my first ever set of clubs when I was his age that were Spalding's, or some other similarly priced under $100 crap set)

 

Fast forward a year and a couple golf camps and he joins the local PGA jr chapter and really fell in love with competitive golf so we spent the winter working with a coach once a week to get his swing and ball striking more consistent and he's recently entered some small local club individual stroke play tournaments and done fairly well in his age group (9-11) shooting +9 +11, +10 so far this season playing from 2300-2700 yards, mostly by excelling around the green and rarely 3 putting.

 

At most of these tournaments he's been in the bottom 1/2-1/3 of his age group (one was 9-12, the other two were 9-11) in terms of distance.  I don't have fancy launch monitor data like some do (though am considering the rapsodo or mevo) as we live out in a rural area and have to go 35 miles just to get to the "home" course, but his driver has been pretty consistently around 145-160, 3w 115-120, hybrid 100-110, 7 80-85, 9 70-75, and SW 55-60 (total distances as measured by gps data)...on the longer par 4's he's played, especially some that had lateral hazards he couldn't carry, he can't reach the green in 2.  

 

I have noticed most of the other kids are playing "real clubs" as opposed to jr sets...and he's bugging me like crazy to let him join the regional Under Armour Jr tour which at this point I'm willing to let him run with it as long as he's having fun and engaged..

 

So obviously more lessons/coaching/practice will certainly help gain distance, but at what point is the equipment he's using holding him back? As he steps further into the world of competitive golf and away from the Jr league (where most kids on his team had lesser clubs, hand me downs, or USKG sets) I want his ultimate success (or failure) to be a product of his god given ability and hard work spent practicing/learning and not to have him at any disadvantage based on equipment.  While I can't run out and drop $2500 on a custom fit set of TM clubs and Stealth drivers I'm sure on 2nd swing or the local golf stores I can source a quality set of gently used premium level equipment on my budget...just need some ammo to convince the wife we really "need" it...

 

Thanks in advance!

[wildcatden]

For irons:

1. https://www.uskidsgolf.com/tour-series/custitem_kd_itemcategory/Sets/custitem_kd_system/Tour-Series-(TS3)

OR

2.  Go find used OEM on eBay.

 

For Woods, fairways, hybrids:

 

1. OEM (Cobra,Taylormade, Titleist) with appropriate weight and flex shaft (likely graphite ladies or senior flex).

 

For putter:

1. Buy whatever you like and cut it down.

 

 

 

 

 

[ShortGolfer]

Ebay has over 400 30 inch putters for Juniors. The heads are smaller if you need that to reduce swing weight.

Edited May 7, 2022 by ShortGolfer

[Medson]

1 hour ago, MD_ said:

TL;dr - Are my 11 yo sons off the shelf Cobra King Jr clubs good enough for more competitive individual tournament golf?

 

 

 

Almost exactly 2 years ago I bought my son (then for his 9th birthday) an off the rack set of the Cobra King Jr clubs (D, 3W, H, 7, 9, SW, P + bag) ... basically these

 

At the time, buying him clubs was an excuse (to the wife) to get out on the course more myself and get back into playing shape without the guilt of leaving her home with 3 boys alone, and I wanted to get him something nice/quality (compared to my first ever set of clubs when I was his age that were Spalding's, or some other similarly priced under $100 crap set)

 

Fast forward a year and a couple golf camps and he joins the local PGA jr chapter and really fell in love with competitive golf so we spent the winter working with a coach once a week to get his swing and ball striking more consistent and he's recently entered some small local club individual stroke play tournaments and done fairly well in his age group (9-11) shooting +9 +11, +10 so far this season playing from 2300-2700 yards, mostly by excelling around the green and rarely 3 putting.

 

At most of these tournaments he's been in the bottom 1/2-1/3 of his age group (one was 9-12, the other two were 9-11) in terms of distance.  I don't have fancy launch monitor data like some do (though am considering the rapsodo or mevo) as we live out in a rural area and have to go 35 miles just to get to the "home" course, but his driver has been pretty consistently around 145-160, 3w 115-120, hybrid 100-110, 7 80-85, 9 70-75, and SW 55-60 (total distances as measured by gps data)...on the longer par 4's he's played, especially some that had lateral hazards he couldn't carry, he can't reach the green in 2.  

 

I have noticed most of the other kids are playing "real clubs" as opposed to jr sets...and he's bugging me like crazy to let him join the regional Under Armour Jr tour which at this point I'm willing to let him run with it as long as he's having fun and engaged..

 

So obviously more lessons/coaching/practice will certainly help gain distance, but at what point is the equipment he's using holding him back? As he steps further into the world of competitive golf and away from the Jr league (where most kids on his team had lesser clubs, hand me downs, or USKG sets) I want his ultimate success (or failure) to be a product of his god given ability and hard work spent practicing/learning and not to have him at any disadvantage based on equipment.  While I can't run out and drop $2500 on a custom fit set of TM clubs and Stealth drivers I'm sure on 2nd swing or the local golf stores I can source a quality set of gently used premium level equipment on my budget...just need some ammo to convince the wife we really "need" it...

 

Thanks in advance!

 

First of all, kudos for driving 35 miles just to get to the home course. That's determination. 

 

Secondly, most of us confront similar problems with kids' equipments. The question is what's your goal? 1) Do you just want to make sure the equipments do not hinder his golf development or 2) you need clubs that allow him to compete at elite junior level?

 

Assuming you bought your son appropriate length clubs 2 years ago, I'd guess the clubs are too short for him now. In that sense, yes, short clubs are probably holding his development back. (if you bought clubs that were too long for him 2 years ago and are appropriate length now, that's a different story.) You can go to U.S. Kids website and check what length of clubs he should be playing. Then, you'll know 

[heavy_hitter]

If anything buy him a used Adult Driver in a Lady flex.  Cut it down and see if he hits it further.  My guess is he is leaving something on the table.

[MD_]

Thanks for the replies…I should have mentioned that stock putter never made it into his bag. He’s using a ping zb3 blade that was cut to 30”.  35 miles is nothing around here…its almost that far just to get gas, groceries, or take out…you get used to it!
 

The cobra set is still an appropriate size. It was a little oversized at 9 but he was right on the top edge of the smaller set so I sized up to get an extra year or so out of it. I think, barring a growth spurt, he’ll be good through fall but you never know. 
 

We live in the mid Atlantic, not exactly a hotbed for truly elite Jr golf, but for as long as he’s interested and wants to pursue it we will support him with the equipment, coaching, and opportunities for competition as best we can (just a two teacher household so there’s only so far we can go with that support, ha!) I just wasn’t sure how much the gains would be from adult oem clubs over the “junior” series

[Movingday]

How big is he?

[MD_]

9 minutes ago, Movingday said:

How big is he?

He’s about 56.5”, 90 lbs. 

[Movingday]

1 hour ago, MD_ said:

He’s about 56.5”, 90 lbs. 

I’d suggest ping prodig. Excellent clubs, come with one free shaft upgrade. They are expensive and can be a little tough to find used at a good deal, but it’s possible. US Kids TS3 are also good. If that interest you, I have a full set of 57” I’m looking to sell. Shoot me a dm if interested. I’ll sell them at a good price

[MD_]

17 hours ago, wildcatden said:

 

 

For Woods, fairways, hybrids:

 

1. OEM (Cobra,Taylormade, Titleist) with appropriate weight and flex shaft (likely graphite ladies or senior flex).

 

 

What is the consensus on cut down OEM shafts vs ordering the Flynn shafts for OEM clubs?

 

9 hours ago, Movingday said:

I’d suggest ping prodig. Excellent clubs, come with one free shaft upgrade. They are expensive and can be a little tough to find used at a good deal, but it’s possible. US Kids TS3 are also good.

So it seems in the case of the irons that the higher level jr clubs are still appropriate at the higher levels of competitive jr golf? The re-shaft upgrade from Ping is a solid deal considering how fast kids grow .. though I do have 2 more coming up behind him so there's always room for hand me downs.

[heavy_hitter]

Just throwing it out there....  11/12 for Junior Tournament golfers is about the age they are moving into adult clubs whether a boy or a girl.

[BloctonGolf11]

Piggybacking on what everyone has said.

 

Yes off the shelf OEM "junior" clubs are for the most part underwhelming and very poor choices. If you want to keep him in junior clubs you should look at USKids TS, Flynn, or Ping ProdiG. at 57" and 90 lbs he is probably getting pretty close to being able to handle adult irons and is for sure able to handle adult woods shafted with women's shafts. If I were you I would look into going OEM Adult headed woods mated to women's shafts and stick with ProdiG or TS irons for one more go around until he hits 60" which is a good line of demarcation for adult irons. 

[tiger1873]

Going to give you a little advice about Club Fitting a lot people don't really think about.

 

1).   You kids is almost certainly not getting his lowest score if they do not have regularly fitted clubs.  Some kids get deeply discounted clubs and or parents will spend ungodly amounts of money to fit their kids.  So unless your goal is win at 11 every week don't worry about winning right now.

 

2). You goal for an 11 year old should be on development long term not winning next week.   One the best things to do is make sure they don't play with too long or too short of clubs.  Also buy clubs based on where they are going not where they are at if your looking to save money. Also learn to build clubs and buy used when you can.   Adult clubs are great and something to look at but only buy them is you want to pick up a few clubs longer and they can handle it.

 

3) Understand what fitting do.  You looking to make it easier for them to hit a constant swing.  Going to be tough at 11 to get an exact fitting.   Take queues on what your instructor is trying to do. If they need a draw  or help getting it up in the air make sure the club fits to promote that.   Also remember there is not many stokes gained from fitting vs lessons.   If their mishitting a club and not getting good contact no amount of  fitting will improve that. Fix the swing issue first before looking at a fitting.  Basically only worry about the clubs if they are having issues fixing something after a few lessons is the rule of thumb.

 

If I was you I look at getting OEM Driver and Woods because he will hit those farther if your doing tournaments. Junior drivers are all bad from my experience and only good for really young kids. 

[MD_]

Thanks everyone, I think based on what everyone has suggested that I'm going to start right away with upgrading his driver and fairway wood...those two, if there's distance to be gained with better clubs based on his current swing, sound like they will give him the most out of his swing and hopefully put him in a position to be able to reach GIR on the longer par 4's and 5's this summer/fall tournament season...right now playing PGA jr he has no issues with yardage on any of the courses they play.

 

Adult iron's sound like a good christmas present....at this point once he's hit a bit of a growth spurt.

[BloctonGolf11]

4 minutes ago, MD_ said:

Thanks everyone, I think based on what everyone has suggested that I'm going to start right away with upgrading his driver and fairway wood...those two, if there's distance to be gained with better clubs based on his current swing, sound like they will give him the most out of his swing and hopefully put him in a position to be able to reach GIR on the longer par 4's and 5's this summer/fall tournament season...right now playing PGA jr he has no issues with yardage on any of the courses they play.

 

Adult iron's sound like a good christmas present....at this point once he's hit a bit of a growth spurt.

Sounds like a good plan, remember at the early stages a fitting is not going to tell you much. At 5' they won't have a ton of options. You can be logical with your choices and get a really good fit on your own. The major fittings come in when you are 5'3" and above and swinging at a decent speed where they can really dial in what you need. Talk to his coach, make an informed decision. The tweener time is tricky but just be logical on the flex and remember shaft weight is more important than flex most of the time. 

Edited May 5, 2022 by BloctonGolf11

[MD_]

Would you say re-shaft with these from flynn or opt for finding a oem with a light ladies/senior shaft and cutting it down to size?

 

 

What are the preferred Adult OEM heads that work well for kids? I know I've seen a lot of talk of the TS1 on some threads but some of those threads are pretty up there in age...I can say that a brand new Tsi1/Stealth etc is not in the cards from a budget perspective!

[heavy_hitter]

56 minutes ago, MD_ said:

Would you say re-shaft with these from flynn or opt for finding a oem with a light ladies/senior shaft and cutting it down to size?

 

 

What are the preferred Adult OEM heads that work well for kids? I know I've seen a lot of talk of the TS1 on some threads but some of those threads are pretty up there in age...I can say that a brand new Tsi1/Stealth etc is not in the cards from a budget perspective!

 

You could fly with a used light weight head that is recent.  I put my kid in the Jet Speed back in the day.  Many swear by the XR16.

 

[Medson]

58 minutes ago, MD_ said:

Would you say re-shaft with these from flynn or opt for finding a oem with a light ladies/senior shaft and cutting it down to size?

 

 

What are the preferred Adult OEM heads that work well for kids? I know I've seen a lot of talk of the TS1 on some threads but some of those threads are pretty up there in age...I can say that a brand new Tsi1/Stealth etc is not in the cards from a budget perspective!

 

I think either Flynn or lightweight lady/senior shaft should work. Flynn is not some magic shaft, it is just a lightweight shaft manufactured by UST Mamiya and is branded as Flynn. According to Flynn's customer rep, their driver shaft is 40g without the grip. I think some of more experienced folks can chime in regarding 35g vs. 40g shaft and lady vs. senior flex. But that's the ballpark you are looking at. 

 

TS1 is good. It's not that old. 🙂 If you go with OEM driver, another thing to consider is loft. I'm assuming you should be looking at 10 or 12 degree driver. Maybe folks can chime in on which loft is more suitable for your kid. 

Edited May 5, 2022 by Medson

[MB19]

1 hour ago, MD_ said:

Thanks everyone, I think based on what everyone has suggested that I'm going to start right away with upgrading his driver and fairway wood...those two, if there's distance to be gained with better clubs based on his current swing, sound like they will give him the most out of his swing and hopefully put him in a position to be able to reach GIR on the longer par 4's and 5's this summer/fall tournament season...right now playing PGA jr he has no issues with yardage on any of the courses they play.

 

Adult iron's sound like a good christmas present....at this point once he's hit a bit of a growth spurt.

Our sons are within an inch and 5 lbs of one another, so I will give you my perspective.  

 

@HeavyHitter55is right that your son is likely leaving something on the table with his driver, but I will go a step further and say he is leaving crucial yards on the table with his fairway wood as well.  The Titleist TSi1 fairway wood, either 18* or 20*, would be a huge upgrade to his bag and give him another 20 yards.  Combine this with another 15-20 yards you will pick up with something like a TS1 driver, and your son is reaching the green in 2 on all but the farthest par fives he plays at those yardages (given he squares up at least one of the shots).

 

His iron distances are fine, but some of those gaps where he doesn't have clubs could cost him a stroke or two each round.  My son used USKG TS3 57" with steel shafts and they will probably be a great fit for him until around fall.  Those Cobra irons your son has trend a little heavy, so he could potentially be ok until Christmas... but he could really benefit from a pitching wedge or gap wedge to fill that big gap (10*?) between 9i and SW.

 

 

[tiger1873]

2 hours ago, Medson said:

 

I think either Flynn or lightweight lady/senior shaft should work. Flynn is not some magic shaft, it is just a lightweight shaft manufactured by UST Mamiya and is branded as Flynn. According to Flynn's customer rep, their driver shaft is 40g without the grip. I think some of more experienced folks can chime in regarding 35g vs. 40g shaft and lady vs. senior flex. But that's the ballpark you are looking at. 

 

TS1 is good. It's not that old. 🙂 If you go with OEM driver, another thing to consider is loft. I'm assuming you should be looking at 10 or 12 degree driver. Maybe folks can chime in on which loft is more suitable for your kid. 

 

 

If you need a Flynn junior shaft then in my opinion then there is no reason not to buy the whole set from Flynn.  Most ladies shafts are not much different then junior shafts.  Really no reason to be adult heads until your talking about senior shafts for the most part.  Ladies clubs outside a few drivers and woods are pretty horrible.

 

If your looking for good custom shafts for a junior look at accra shafts they are some the best shafts out there.  

[Golfingdawg19]

Equipment is always something that you have to deal with in junior golf. I coach high school golf so we get a big discount from Cobra. All of my daughter's clubs were Cobra until recently. I knew that we would be changing clubs frequently so why spend a bunch of money on clubs only to switch a year later. My daughter started with adult irons around 11. I had them cut down to the US kids specs and rolled with it. I did the same thing with all of her clubs. When she hit 13 I took her in to get fit for irons because she was at the specs for regular women's clubs. She ended up with Mizuno irons and Titleist wedges. Her woods and hybrids are still Cobra. I would highly encourage you to buy what is cheap until your child gets older because you are going to go through a ton of different sets. My daughter had her Mizuno irons for 15 months and we are not getting Titleist irons. I fully expect to get a little over a year out of these before having to change again so its all part of the process.

[obsessed_golfer]

Dick's and Golf Galaxy offer a Cobra Varsity set for around $600 for kids up to 5'6".  Might want to look into that. It's a full set including bag.

[heavy_hitter]

1 hour ago, obsessed_golfer said:

Dick's and Golf Galaxy offer a Cobra Varsity set for around $600 for kids up to 5'6".  Might want to look into that. It's a full set including bag.

Those clubs are complete garbage.

[heavy_hitter]

2 hours ago, Golfingdawg19 said:

Equipment is always something that you have to deal with in junior golf. I coach high school golf so we get a big discount from Cobra. All of my daughter's clubs were Cobra until recently. I knew that we would be changing clubs frequently so why spend a bunch of money on clubs only to switch a year later. My daughter started with adult irons around 11. I had them cut down to the US kids specs and rolled with it. I did the same thing with all of her clubs. When she hit 13 I took her in to get fit for irons because she was at the specs for regular women's clubs. She ended up with Mizuno irons and Titleist wedges. Her woods and hybrids are still Cobra. I would highly encourage you to buy what is cheap until your child gets older because you are going to go through a ton of different sets. My daughter had her Mizuno irons for 15 months and we are not getting Titleist irons. I fully expect to get a little over a year out of these before having to change again so its all part of the process.

 

Agree.  I giggle when I hear folks say "They will have these for a few years."  No, no you won't.  I even told that lie to my wife once or twice.  Growth and Swing Speed generally means you are going to get new clubs once a year to a year and a half 12-16.

[Goldenhawk]

11 years old…go with US Kids Tour Irons and Wedges.  Maybe the putter.  Do not waste money on Us Kids woods and drivers.  They are built for light weighting and not to CT limits.  I have known this for 10+ years.

 

For drivers and woods, get used or discounted ladies or senior clubs.  Size and cut down the shafts.  The great thing is some of these drivers and woods allow you to just switch the shafts as he gets older and more powerful.  I have three boys that all play competitive level junior golf.  They all started around 3-4 years old.  And while the hand me downs helped, I would have loved the capability to switch out shafts back then.  The oldest started all four years on the varsity high school golf team and is now 21.  I have two younger teenage boys (13 and 16) that play PGA Junior League and such.

 

And yes….I am the father who’s boys currently play TM Stealth Drivers and Woods, and Titleist or TM Irons and Wedges.  From my experience, there is an equipment factor that does come into play at that level.  Proper fitting, with the technology in the clubs from OEMs, along with lessons with a PGA Pro is what is needed.  You don’t have to have to pay full price.  There are discounts out there.  AJGA has Mizuno and TM discounts.  Some high school teams can get discounts from Titleist and TM.  If you search golf stores, you can find decent used clubs.  Just make sure you have them adjusted for your son.  There are also sales for used clubs at Global Golf, Callaway Pre-Owned, 2nd Swing, etc.

 

 

[leezer99]

Probably not.  Today's kids are so pampered with their custom fittings, ultralight game improvement irons, 9000+ MOI drivers, etc that they have no idea how to actually control their ball.  I know a kid my son's age (14) that plays his dad's cut down P730 blades with X100's in them and he stripes it.  If he played more events and increased his golf IQ (which is happening very fast) he'll be a g'damn menace out there.  I don't think he started hitting balls until he was 11 or 12.  Don't get caught up in the arms race.

[Goldenhawk]

5 hours ago, leezer99 said:

Probably not.  Today's kids are so pampered with their custom fittings, ultralight game improvement irons, 9000+ MOI drivers, etc that they have no idea how to actually control their ball.  I know a kid my son's age (14) that plays his dad's cut down P730 blades with X100's in them and he stripes it.  If he played more events and increased his golf IQ (which is happening very fast) he'll be a g'damn menace out there.  I don't think he started hitting balls until he was 11 or 12.  Don't get caught up in the arms race.

My 13 year old son takes lessons with a PGA Pro for ‘learning how to play golf’, rarely working on his swing since his swing is already where it needs to be.  He is learning and practicing how to hit draws, fades, knockdowns, stingers, short game stuff, etc.  Working with a PGA teacher helps with learning these things.  My son already knows his swing and knows how to ‘fix’ things if something bad creeps in.  Fairly advanced for a 13 year old.  I just wish my 16 year old can get there sooner than later.

 

While there is an arms race when it comes to competitive junior golf, having a kid that knows how to use the weapons is really something nice to see and watch.

Edited May 7, 2022 by Goldenhawk

[leezer99]

5 hours ago, Goldenhawk said:

My 13 year old son takes lessons with a PGA Pro for ‘learning how to play golf’, rarely working on his swing since his swing is already where it needs to be.  He is learning and practicing how to hit draws, fades, knockdowns, stingers, short game stuff, etc.  Working with a PGA teacher helps with learning these things.  My son already knows his swing and knows how to ‘fix’ things if something bad creeps in.  Fairly advanced for a 13 year old.  I just wish my 16 year old can get there sooner than later.

 

While there is an arms race when it comes to competitive junior golf, having a kid that knows how to use the weapons is really something nice to see and watch.

I’m not sure I follow. You pay a guy to teach your son what any inquisitive kid would naturally do while playing 18 holes over the course of 4-5 hours? Couldn’t you just teach him ball flight laws and d-plane physics and he’d be proficient?

[atom bomb]

My son is 11, 59" and somwhere between 80 and 90 pounds.  He started getting into it last fall.  I started him with a ultralite US kids clubs I picked up off facebook.  I dont have a lot of experience but what I have seen with my one son lines up with others to spend some money on woods. 

 

Here is my experience.  I got a new driver this year so I ordered a flynn shaft for my 2017 rogue.  My son picked up considerable distance over his US kids driver.  Went from about 120 up to 150(total distance).  I ordered the flynn 7 iron demo and he was swinging it better and hitting it further than the US UL kids 7 iron.  We ended up ordering 6-P and SW from Flynn.  He has a twin brother that was also playing but not as into it but liked the rogue driver.  I bought a Cobra F7 with a 41 and 43 inch shaft for $80 plus shipping, figuring one of them would use it and the other the rogue.  The cobra is a 12 degree driver and he it another 10-20 yards longer than the Rogue with the flynn shaft, I think this has to do more with the loft than the club itself.  My rogue was a 9 degree that I turned to +2 but the launch is a lot better off the cobra.  We played in a father son scramble 2 weeks ago and his 2 longest drives ranged at 185 and 188.  He also bought a flynn 21 degree fairway wood with his own money.  He hits it about 140-150 compared to his old US kids which was traveling about 110-125.  We have been really happy with Flynn, they are based out of NJ and have fast shipping.  I am located in PA and typically have anything we order in 2 days of placing the order so if you want something quick and are located in the midatlantic I would look at Flynn.

[Goldenhawk]

13 hours ago, leezer99 said:

I’m not sure I follow. You pay a guy to teach your son what any inquisitive kid would naturally do while playing 18 holes over the course of 4-5 hours? Couldn’t you just teach him ball flight laws and d-plane physics and he’d be proficient?

Easier for a PGA Pro to teach my kids than it is for me to do it.  He can pick up things that I cannot.  There are many times when my kids ask me questions on why things happen with the swing that I cannot answer.