Friend who is a golf cheat

[ChipDriver]

On 5/30/2022 at 3:54 AM, SuperSpurs106 said:

Hi

 

I wonder if anyone has any ideas/advice for me.

 

A group of 5/6 of us play together regularly in our club competitions. We are all mates. The newest member to the group is a cheat. I’ve seen him improve his lie with his club and sometimes his hand on several occasions. Other friends have seen him too.

 

He does the classic of waiting until someone is playing their shot, thinking that all eyes are on that person.

 

We don’t have video evidence and no two people have seen the same indiscretion, which would make it easier to confront rather than one person’s word against his.

 

We are all mates and it just feels really awkward but, ultimately, it is wrong.

 

What would anyone do in this position? Has anyone ever been in this position?

 

TIA

Honest question:  how old are you?   I assume you're a teenager who has never dealt with people who appear to lack integrity?  As a friend - advise him of it - and try to be helpful.   Don't criticize unless you're sure of his personal intent...rather than it simply being ignorance and a mistake.

 

Simple solution.  Talk to him privately - and as a friend intending to help him - rather than criticizing him.  Identify the behavior(s) and ask if he is aware that this appears to break the rules?   Suggest (don't ask) that he familiarize himself with the RoG, and if he has questions now or during play - he should ask, rather than assume.  And that if his behavior doesn't change - you can still play golf together - but not for money; and you are informed by the club that he will be excluded from tournaments.

 

...as a friend...not as a critic.  

[Double Mocha Man]

3 hours ago, sui generis said:

 

"Donald, there've been many complaints about your , let's say, spotty compliance with the Rules. Going forward, while we're all happy for you to play with us, we've agreed you just can't be in the money game any longer."

 

Interesting that you picked the name "Donald". 😁

 

 

 

Edited September 8, 2022 by Double Mocha Man

[Pastit]

1 hour ago, ChipDriver said:

Honest question:  how old are you?   I assume you're a teenager who has never dealt with people who appear to lack integrity?  As a friend - advise him of it - and try to be helpful.   Don't criticize unless you're sure of his personal intent...rather than it simply being ignorance and a mistake.

 

Simple solution.  Talk to him privately - and as a friend intending to help him - rather than criticizing him.  Identify the behavior(s) and ask if he is aware that this appears to break the rules?   Suggest (don't ask) that he familiarize himself with the RoG, and if he has questions now or during play - he should ask, rather than assume.  And that if his behavior doesn't change - you can still play golf together - but not for money; and you are informed by the club that he will be excluded from tournaments.

 

...as a friend...not as a critic.  

Good advice. This happened to me years ago and I told the cheat that our game was ended ( he being my partner that day ), I’d paid off the other side, and if he turned up to join our usual group in future, I would expose him. He resigned from the club never to be seen again. 

[Krt22]

I would hesitate to call anyone who cheats a mate. We had a guy like that in our group..after numerous instances of cheating we started to confront him about it. He got nasty and tried to play the victim, which we simply did not fall for. He is no longer a "mate" and we no longer invite him to golf..ever. 

[Augster]

What is with all the passive aggressive BS in this thread? Terrible advice. 
 

You’re in a club competition. You owe it to the field to protect them. Especially if this clown ever finishes in the money. 
 

If you see him roll the ball, call him out. It’s pretty simple. Just say, “Did you move your ball before you hit that shot?” Invariably, he’ll say, “No”. Then say, “I saw you do it. We’ll talk to the committee after the round.”  Then be on the lookout for further, sneakier transgressions. 
 

BTW, this guy isn’t a “mate”. What kind of supposed friend puts his other “friends” in this situation where they have to awkwardly call him out? F that guy. 

[sui generis]

[Dpavs]

OP, I don't know how familiar the person you are referencing is and of course it's easy to assume the worst but if it were me I would start by explaining that the group "plays the ball as it lies" according to the USGA rules and then explain to him what this means. You can even refer him to the rule if you like. This may be enough to change the way he thinks about the rounds and conducts himself without assuming any bad intentions on his part.

[eugkim]

Had a situation in a member-guest. Paired against a friend/acquaintance. Had a 1 shot lead going to 17.  I'm on the green in regulation, his partner is out of the hole, and he hit his approach deep in the woods. He calls out and asks if he can take relief in the woods because his ball is in a pile of cut grass. I told him he could and went to my ball on the green. Next thing I know, I turn to look, he had dropped out of the woods in the rough, closer to the green by a good 15 feet and drops it inside 10 feet. I'm looking dumbfounded at this. Luckily, it didn't affect the outcome of the match. Never gave him the time of day or had an ounce of respect for him since.

[Oh Hi Carl]

I think the term "cheat" should only apply to competitions (even just wagering with friends) where someone knowingly breaks the rules. 

 

I've played enough muni golf to know that a huge percentage of golfers have no idea what a Nassau is and never play any type of competition.  The don't know squat about the ROG and just play however they like, such as hitting one in trees, searching around for a bit, and then dropping wherever they have a clear path to the green even if that's 20 feet from the trees.  They aren't competing with anyone and most aren't keeping an official handicap.  I don't consider them cheaters, and I appreciate that their approach may actually speed up their play. 

 

The problem becomes when these people sign up for their first tournaments.  The honest ones are terrified of breaking a rule and the "cheaters" realize they're probably breaking rules but don't really care maybe because they assume they won't win anything.  

[Pastit]

3 minutes ago, Oh Hi Carl said:

I think the term "cheat" should only apply to competitions (even just wagering with friends) where someone knowingly breaks the rules. 

 

I've played enough muni golf to know that a huge percentage of golfers have no idea what a Nassau is and never play any type of competition.  The don't know squat about the ROG and just play however they like, such as hitting one in trees, searching around for a bit, and then dropping wherever they have a clear path to the green even if that's 20 feet from the trees.  They aren't competing with anyone and most aren't keeping an official handicap.  I don't consider them cheaters, and I appreciate that their approach may actually speed up their play. 

 

The problem becomes when these people sign up for their first tournaments.  The honest ones are terrified of breaking a rule and the "cheaters" realize they're probably breaking rules but don't really care maybe because they assume they won't win anything.  

Nein.