What rules would you Change / Delete / Add if you could?

[Golferpaul]

If you want to speed up the game, make the cup 6 inches wide.  Three-putting consumes a lot of time, and a larger hole would help reduce three-putting.

 

That would also shift more focus to the long game instead of putting like Ben Hogen suggested.

 

[mshills]

1 hour ago, Halebopp said:

 

Make Stroke & Distance the only relief option for anything. Play the course as you find it, play the ball as it lies and if you can't or don't want to do so, or managed to hit the ball off the course, try again from the previous spot. No touching or cleaning of the ball, except for a ball helping or interfering with play, or checking to see if it's broken. We'd do away with a lot of things quite easily but I'm not sure the general public would like the game with the small rule book.

One page was optimistic — a stretch goal for sure.
 

I’ve seen a fantastic body of work that is two pages, front and back. One page, front and back, governs stroke play, the second page, front and back, governs match play. It is just about perfection, and I stand corrected — one page isn’t really workable to cover the inevitable wrong place, wrong ball type of eventualities. 

[DaveLeeNC]

1 hour ago, Halebopp said:

 

Make Stroke & Distance the only relief option for anything. Play the course as you find it, play the ball as it lies and if you can't or don't want to do so, or managed to hit the ball off the course, try again from the previous spot. No touching or cleaning of the ball, except for a ball helping or interfering with play, or checking to see if it's broken. We'd do away with a lot of things quite easily but I'm not sure the general public would like the game with the small rule book.

 

You are going to have to at least allow a club to manage its course. I don't think they will want people hitting full 9i's off sprinkler heads. Or hitting out of GUR or environmentally sensitive areas, etc. You could make folks swing around sprinkler control boxes, off paved cart paths, from out of thorn bushes, etc (or take S&D), but you are really going to slow down play as often you just don't know what you are about to run into. A whole bunch of provisionals will also slow things down, BTW.

 

And, of course, this is  how very simple rules cease to be simple. 

 

dave

[jordan2240]

Once you tee it up, you have 10 seconds to hit the ball.  Guess that's not really a rule change.

[Socrates]

5 hours ago, Golferpaul said:

If you want to speed up the game, make the cup 6 inches wide.  Three-putting consumes a lot of time, and a larger hole would help reduce three-putting.

 

That would also shift more focus to the long game instead of putting like Ben Hogen suggested.

 

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that was tried in the "80's on the Sr Tour and it didn't change anything.

[bcjim]

Eliminate OB period, especially "internal" OB. Just make it a kind of penalty area that cannot be entered.

[SE Gamer]

5 minutes ago, bcjim said:

Eliminate OB period, especially "internal" OB. Just make it a kind of penalty area that cannot be entered.

 

Ugh. Remember a HS tourney back in the day with in-course OB on the last hole. Par 5, with OB about 10 yards off the fairway to the right. On the other side of the OB was the fairway for the first hole. I suppose the purpose was to keep people from trying to shave off a yardage by playing into the #1 fairway.  

 

Worst part is that the hole called for a fade off the tee (RH players). And the left side of the hole was at the boundary of the course. With traditional OB. Basically made it that if you missed the fairway on either side. There was a good chance you were going OB. 

[Mr. Bean]

14 hours ago, SE Gamer said:

Worst part is that the hole called for a fade off the tee (RH players). And the left side of the hole was at the boundary of the course. With traditional OB. Basically made it that if you missed the fairway on either side. There was a good chance you were going OB. 

 

If you do not have sufficient skills to use your driver use a smaller club. No problem.

 

Edited September 18, 2022 by Mr. Bean

[SE Gamer]

2 minutes ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

If you cannot use your driver use a smaller club. No problem.

 

I'm well aware of that. The in-course OB just made it an absolutely garbage hole. 

[Mr. Bean]

1 minute ago, SE Gamer said:

 

I'm well aware of that. The in-course OB just made it an absolutely garbage hole. 

 Not garbage but challenging. Such holes do exist.

[mshills]

6 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

 Not garbage but challenging. Such holes do exist.

No. On course OB is garbage.

 

Out of bounds should mean you hit a shot so poor that it is off the property entirely, and you are penalized accordingly. 

[Colin L]

On 9/17/2022 at 4:32 PM, Dpavs said:

Whether the lie is really improve or not depends on how much sand is moved doesn't it? You could also easily argue that grounding it in the rough improves the lie because it is always going to depress some of the grass behind the ball. Yet that is allowed with reckless abandon. That's why I think they should change it. One simple rule regarding improving your lie regardless of where the ball is just makes more sense to me.

Not with reckless abandon it isn't.  You are allowed the weight of the club without any pressing down, that's all.   Some players may deliberately flatten the grass with reckless abandon or even caution in case they are seen, but it's not allowed.

 

My point above is that sand being granular could too easily by moved and the lie improved just by the weight of the club.  Grass is more resilient.

[Mr. Bean]

8 hours ago, mshills said:

No. On course OB is garbage.

 

Out of bounds should mean you hit a shot so poor that it is off the property entirely, and you are penalized accordingly. 

 

Off the property may also be inside the course, like it is on my previous home club and a few others around here.

 

Besides, internal OB's are mainly if not always used to make a player think what to do and that way reduce the number of reckless hero shots that cause more danger than satisfaction. It seems they are not that uncommon as there are even Model Local Rules dealing with the issue.

 

You could as well say pot bunkers on the fairway are garbage because you may end up in those and it will cost you a stroke (for some even more than one...). You would be equally wrong in your thinking.

[Newby]

8 hours ago, mshills said:

No. On course OB is garbage.

 

Out of bounds should mean you hit a shot so poor that it is off the property entirely, and you are penalized accordingly. 

There are many courses where the practice range is adjacent to the course itself. The danger there is not for those practicing but for the player. With a dozen or more driving bays being used by other competitors, I doubt many players would be keen venturing over the OB line to play their ball when in their competition round. And would those practicing be happy to be held up whilst the player takes the time to identify and play his ball from amongst the hundreds on the range?

[Rocky Ball-boa]

On 9/17/2022 at 2:48 PM, Dufferonius said:

I would see the rule about not touching/testing the sand in bunkers eliminated.

In principle I agree, with the variability of bunkers not only across different courses, but also on the same course, it's basically a lottery.
Bunker shots are already a bit tricky, so you're already punished enough.

 

However... given how many people fancy themselves too important to do something so demeaning as to rake a bunker after themselves, I fear such a rule would just result in an even larger amount of foot marks and divots you can have the misfortune of ending up in if practice swings in the sand became a thing. I guess pace of play would also potentially be an issue for the same reason.

[Dpavs]

5 hours ago, Colin L said:

Not with reckless abandon it isn't.  You are allowed the weight of the club without any pressing down, that's all.   Some players may deliberately flatten the grass with reckless abandon or even caution in case they are seen, but it's not allowed.

 

My point above is that sand being granular could too easily by moved and the lie improved just by the weight of the club.  Grass is more resilient.

 

Knowing they are on video and given that I see this constant pressing of the grass behind the ball with great frequency, I don't think most players care about the rule anymore or know that it will not be enforced unless they do something extremely flagrant.

 

Regarding the sand, that is sort of my point though... who cares if a little bit of sand moves as long as it really does not improve the lie? It's such a silly technicality IMO.

Edited September 19, 2022 by Dpavs

[Colin L]

1 hour ago, Dpavs said:

 

Knowing they are on video and given that I see this constant pressing of the grass behind the ball with great frequency, I don't think most players care about the rule anymore or know that it will not be enforced unless they do something extremely flagrant.

 

Regarding the sand, that is sort of my point though... who cares if a little bit of sand moves as long as it really does not improve the lie? It's such a silly technicality IMO.

I think you are perhaps unaware of a principle behind penalties in golf for specified actions: they cover not just an actual advantage being gained but the possibility of an advantage.  Also, rules need to be clear and easy to apply.   Determining the difference between "a little bit of sand" and "too much sand" would be a nightmare (count the grains?) , as would deciding whether an advantage has been gained or not. Sometimes there clearly would and sometimes there clearly wouldn't. But the bit in between when it would be debatable would be unworkable.  Touching sand behind the ball is a breach whatever - now that's absolute and clear.  

[larrybud]

On 9/17/2022 at 12:44 PM, Fuscinator said:

Hitting the fairway should guarantee a clean lie (the guy who made that divot had a clean lie). Lift, clean, and place whenever you hit a fairway.

Stick in slows things down to a crawl when half the group wants it out. New rule: If one or more players in the group want the stick out on the green, all must abide.

Re divots: There's no knowing if the guy who made the divot had a clean lie. I've had terrible lies in fairways before that were NOT in a divot.

[larrybud]

On 9/17/2022 at 6:21 PM, jordan2240 said:

Once you tee it up, you have 10 seconds to hit the ball.  Guess that's not really a rule change.

45 seconds is the current rule on tour.

[larrybud]

I'm assuming we're talking about sanctioned, events, right? I think most groups (in the US) have their own "group" rules. Ours change depending on the group. Some we have "roll it in your own FW". Others we have a "rake and place" option in the bunker. I'm sure the purists must be shaking in horror right now!

 

As far as the official rules, no penalty for hitting the pin while on the putting green I would revert to how it's been for 100+ years.

 

I would also allow for a provisional when a ball may be lost in a penalty area. It would work just like any other provisional. If you find your original, your original is abandoned and the original is the ball in play. I see this more times than not when it's not clear whether a ball cleared a hazard or not (e.g. long grass blocking the landing area), and it's not practical to walk/drive around to first see if it indeed has cleared.

[Halebopp]

10 minutes ago, larrybud said:

I would also allow for a provisional when a ball may be lost in a penalty area. It would work just like any other provisional. If you find your original, your original is abandoned and the original is the ball in play. I see this more times than not when it's not clear whether a ball cleared a hazard or not (e.g. long grass blocking the landing area), and it's not practical to walk/drive around to first see if it indeed has cleared.

 

There's a local rule any club could adopt if they wanted to. Unfortunately it's possibly too complicated a rule for the general public.

 

https://www.randa.org/rog/committee-procedures/8b#b-3

[larrybud]

1 minute ago, Halebopp said:

 

There's a local rule any club could adopt if they wanted to. Unfortunately it's possibly too complicated a rule for the general public.

 

https://www.randa.org/rog/committee-procedures/8b#b-3

The general public doesn't play by the rules anyway. Our group routinely adopts this rule. I'm strictly speaking for organized competitions.

[Fuscinator]

36 minutes ago, larrybud said:

Stick in slows things down to a crawl when half the group wants it out. New rule: If one or more players in the group want the stick out on the green, all must abide.

Re divots: There's no knowing if the guy who made the divot had a clean lie. I've had terrible lies in fairways before that were NOT in a divot.

Gorilla Glue the sticks in the cups. Anyone who objects can join the weirdo putter grip group on the island.

[jordan2240]

38 minutes ago, larrybud said:

45 seconds is the current rule on tour.

I didn't realize there was a rule.

[Mr. Bean]

15 minutes ago, larrybud said:

The general public doesn't play by the rules anyway. Our group routinely adopts this rule. I'm strictly speaking for organized competitions.

 

It is too difficult for inexperienced (and most experienced...) competitors as well, saw that clearly last Friday.

[larrybud]

Just now, Mr. Bean said:

 

It is too difficult for inexperienced (and most experienced...) competitors as well, saw that clearly last Friday.

How would this rule be any more difficult than any other provisional rule? If you find the original, it's in play, and the provisional doesn't count.

[Mr. Bean]

1 minute ago, jordan2240 said:

I didn't realize there was a rule.

 

There isn't. However in the Hard Card of each tour there is a section about Pace of Play in which those times are presented. The time limit varies on different tours and depends on whether one is on the clock or not. So it is not one fixed 45 seconds but many different ones.

[Mr. Bean]

1 minute ago, larrybud said:

How would this rule be any more difficult than any other provisional rule? If you find the original, it's in play, and the provisional doesn't count.

 

There you go, wrong immediately 🤣

[larrybud]

16 minutes ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

There you go, wrong immediately 🤣

Really? Please do enlighten me about provisionals. 

[Dpavs]

2 hours ago, Colin L said:

I think you are perhaps unaware of a principle behind penalties in golf for specified actions: they cover not just an actual advantage being gained but the possibility of an advantage.  Also, rules need to be clear and easy to apply.   Determining the difference between "a little bit of sand" and "too much sand" would be a nightmare (count the grains?) , as would deciding whether an advantage has been gained or not. Sometimes there clearly would and sometimes there clearly wouldn't. But the bit in between when it would be debatable would be unworkable.  Touching sand behind the ball is a breach whatever - now that's absolute and clear.  

We are not talking about the rules as they exist but as perhaps they should be right? So, I am not sure what you are on about with your theory as to the principles behind them. I also think you are too focused on how much sand is being moved. It should not be about the sand it should be about the shot. For whatever amount of sand is moved the question, IMO, should simply be is did it change the lie so as to make it likely that the shot was improved. Again, just my opinion but I don't think that such a determination by the player involves a great degree of speculation. Regardless of this, in any case there are already a number of rules where there has been a penalty or not is already based solely on the players judgement. Players are expected to act with integrity, right? In any case, to any extent you may feel that making a judgement as to whether the shot was advantaged or not is too difficult for a player to ascertain, we can simply agree to disagree on that part.