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Mitsubishi MMT - low swing weight


jsandell
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Hi, 

 

I'm in the process of replacing S300 shafts with hard-stepped 105TX in my Mizunos, I measured the swing-weight yesterday and realized that I will need to add as much as 26g 12g to the heads to get them to my desired swing weight (D3). I can't seem to find any tip weights to fit the inner diameter while being that heavy, any tips on how I can achieve this without using lead-tape?

 

/Johan 

Edited by jsandell

Cobra F9 Speedback 9° - Fujikura Atmos Black Tour Spec 7x

TaylorMade M4 3w 15° - Oban Devotion 8 05-flex (85g)

PXG 0311X Xtreme Dark 2i - Accra 100i x-flex

Mizuno MP-67 3-9i - Mitsubishi MMT 105TX, 1x hardstep

Daiwa DG-201 3-10i - Fujikura Pro 115 Tour X 

Callaway JAWS 46/52/58 - Mitsubishi MMT 105TX

Scotty Cameron Studio Design 3.5

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32 minutes ago, 03trdblack said:

Make them longer, that's your main option. 

Already built them +1/2", and I don't want them longer than they are.. I'd rather use lead-tape than having too long clubs.

 

28 minutes ago, lilcaeser said:

Agree 1/2” longer and lighter grips , 

Lighter grips might be an option, did not expect it to be a problem so I got the Lamkin Crosslines and actually thought they were fairly light while they are actually not.. Might get the Iomic Sticky 2.3 next time though to reduce the grip weight by 13g and I can use lead-tape to compensate until then! Thanks for the idea! 🙂

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Cobra F9 Speedback 9° - Fujikura Atmos Black Tour Spec 7x

TaylorMade M4 3w 15° - Oban Devotion 8 05-flex (85g)

PXG 0311X Xtreme Dark 2i - Accra 100i x-flex

Mizuno MP-67 3-9i - Mitsubishi MMT 105TX, 1x hardstep

Daiwa DG-201 3-10i - Fujikura Pro 115 Tour X 

Callaway JAWS 46/52/58 - Mitsubishi MMT 105TX

Scotty Cameron Studio Design 3.5

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2 hours ago, jsandell said:

Hi, 

 

I'm in the process of replacing S300 shafts with hard-stepped 105TX in my Mizunos, I measured the swing-weight yesterday and realized that I will need to add as much as 26g to the heads to get them to my desired swing weight (D3). I can't seem to find any tip weights to fit the inner diameter while being that heavy, any tips on how I can achieve this without using lead-tape?

 

/Johan 

 

Somethings definitely not quite right here.   Even B weight heads should not need even close to that much tip weight for an +1/2" build.

 

What are the raw head weights?

Did you get the new shafts used or new?

 

Please don't be offended but I have to ask - you sure you're using the swing weight scale properly and it's calibrated correctly?   Pics might help if you are unsure.

 

 

42 minutes ago, jsandell said:

Already built them +1/2", and I don't want them longer than they are.. I'd rather use lead-tape than having too long clubs.

 

Yes.  Going longer is generally one of the worst ways to fix a swing weight problem.

 

42 minutes ago, jsandell said:

Lighter grips might be an option, did not expect it to be a problem so I got the Lamkin Crosslines and actually thought they were fairly light while they are actually not..

 

Lighter grips will make the swing weight scale read higher - but it generally wont make the  heads actually feel heavier.   Might even make things worse since the static weight is going down in a club that might already feel too light.

 

 

 

Edited by Stuart_G
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4 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

 

Somethings definitely not quite right here.   Even B weight heads should not need even close to that much tip weight for an +1/2" build.

 

What are the raw head weights?

Did you get the new shafts used or new?

 

Please don't be offended but I have to ask - you sure you're using the swing weight scale properly and it's calibrated correctly?   Pics might help if you are unsure.

 

 

 

Yes.  Going longer is generally one of the worst ways to fix a swing weight problem.

 

 

Lighter grips will make the swing weight scale read higher - but it generally wont make the  heads actually feel heavier.   Might even make things worse since the static weight is going down in a club that might already feel too light.

 

 

 

 

Raw heads;

3i - 233g

4i - 240,5g

5i - 245g

6i - 253g

7i - 258g

8i - 269,5g

9i - 277,5g

 

Fairly light I guess but that seems normal for Mizuno? No issues getting a 7g progression at least..

 

Haha no worries, need to thank you for questioning me since I've apparently put in the wrong numbers in the calculator multiple times.. feeling a bit silly atm. 

The swing weights are calculated but should as you know be a fairly ok estimate depending on how well I've managed to measure the balance point.

I still need 12g weights though to get the clubs to D3 though but I will at least be at D1 with the 8g weights that I have found that fits inside the tip of the shafts. 

 

That's true, the static weight is pretty much the same as with the steel-shafts due to the heavier grips (did not have midsize before)!

 

Any clue whether it would be a problem to have a tip weight that is longer up inside the shaft than the hosel? I would assume this to have an effect on the flex of the shaft and the edge of the weight might cause damage to the inside of the shaft? 

 

/Johan

Cobra F9 Speedback 9° - Fujikura Atmos Black Tour Spec 7x

TaylorMade M4 3w 15° - Oban Devotion 8 05-flex (85g)

PXG 0311X Xtreme Dark 2i - Accra 100i x-flex

Mizuno MP-67 3-9i - Mitsubishi MMT 105TX, 1x hardstep

Daiwa DG-201 3-10i - Fujikura Pro 115 Tour X 

Callaway JAWS 46/52/58 - Mitsubishi MMT 105TX

Scotty Cameron Studio Design 3.5

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8 minutes ago, jsandell said:

 

Raw heads;

3i - 233g

4i - 240,5g

5i - 245g

6i - 253g

7i - 258g

8i - 269,5g

9i - 277,5g

 

Fairly light I guess but that seems normal for Mizuno? No issues getting a 7g progression at least..

 

Yes, a little light but most are actually pretty good numbers for what you're building.   ~7 gm lighter than "standard" would normally be just right for a +1/2" set (and D2).

 

e.g. 7 gm lighter than standard would be:

3i - 233  gm (standard 2i wt)

4i - 240 gm (standard 3i wt)

5i - 247 gm  ...

6i - 254 gm

7i - 261 gm

8i - 268 gm

9i - 275 gm

 

 

8 minutes ago, jsandell said:

Haha no worries, need to thank you for questioning me since I've apparently put in the wrong numbers in the calculator multiple times.. feeling a bit silly atm. 

The swing weights are calculated but should as you know be a fairly ok estimate depending on how well I've managed to measure the balance point.

 

which calculator are you using?

 

8 minutes ago, jsandell said:

I still need 12g weights though to get the clubs to D3 though but I will at least be at D1 with the 8g weights that I have found that fits inside the tip of the shafts. 

 

Better but still seems a quite a bit higher than I'd expect.

 

Not used the MMT's before but these seem to indicate that they are a tip heavy shaft, not a high balance point shaft so shouldn't really need much tip weight at all.

 

 

 

 

8 minutes ago, jsandell said:

Any clue whether it would be a problem to have a tip weight that is longer up inside the shaft than the hosel?

 

When it comes to tip weights like these:

https://billybobsgolf.com/product/brass-swingweight-for-heavy-graphite-shafts-with-small-mandrel-hole/

or

https://billybobsgolf.com/product/brass-swingweights-for-graphite-shafts/

 

They will not be a problem as far as any risk to breaking the shaft - although it's a fairly common misconception - so you'll run across many people who think they will be.   Nor will there be any effect on the flex of the shaft.   Sorry, that part of the shaft really doesn't bend much due to the reinforcing to deal with the high stresses at the top of the hosel.   You'd have to go pretty high up the shaft (> 4-6") before you'd need to worry about that.

 

However, they sometimes can be problematic when it comes to potentially causing rattles in the shaft.   Masking tape can be used to add a little cushioning to help prevent that.  Not a great idea to epoxy them in place since it's difficult to get them out again w/o damaging the shaft.

 

 

 

 

 

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Something seems off. My club fitter buddy says MMT are known to swing weight as heavy as steel or even a bit heavier due to the metal mesh in the tip. He tells clients it’s a tough shaft to build over length and keep swing weight down.
 

I wanted to try an MMT 95, in a slightly heavier than standard Nike Pro Combo 6 iron head (264g) from Japan. Shorter builds are popular there so heads can be a half-club heavier than ‘standard.’  At 37.50 length it swing weighted at D4.5. I don’t like the feel of high swing weight so ended up putting a KBS Tour-V 100 in it and the higher balance dropped it to D1.5. 

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1 hour ago, dmeeksDC said:

Something seems off. My club fitter buddy says MMT are known to swing weight as heavy as steel or even a bit heavier due to the metal mesh in the tip. He tells clients it’s a tough shaft to build over length and keep swing weight down.
 

I wanted to try an MMT 95, in a slightly heavier than standard Nike Pro Combo 6 iron head (264g) from Japan. Shorter builds are popular there so heads can be a half-club heavier than ‘standard.’  At 37.50 length it swing weighted at D4.5. I don’t like the feel of high swing weight so ended up putting a KBS Tour-V 100 in it and the higher balance dropped it to D1.5. 

 

This is 100% true.  I sold a set of MMT125 after a fitting that swingweight to D6.5 at 1/2" over with Lamkin Sonar+ grips on the demo shaft.  My builder told me after he couldn't get them there and they were closer to D8 even with Z-Cord Mids when finally built.  I messaged the client a couple of weeks ago to see how things are and he loves them, even if they are bit hefty.

Edited by WristySwing
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I am on the quest for the clubs I hit the best, feel and looks be darned.

These below have my attention at the moment.

 

SIM - Rogue Silver 130

Speedzone Tour Big - Arcane

Rogue Sub Zero - Thump 

0211DC 5-PW - Elevate Tour

SM8 50/F, 54/D, 58/M - i123

Bettinardi Hive Custom

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15 hours ago, Stuart_G said:

 

Yes, a little light but most are actually pretty good numbers for what you're building.   ~7 gm lighter than "standard" would normally be just right for a +1/2" set (and D2).

 

e.g. 7 gm lighter than standard would be:

3i - 233  gm (standard 2i wt)

4i - 240 gm (standard 3i wt)

5i - 247 gm  ...

6i - 254 gm

7i - 261 gm

8i - 268 gm

9i - 275 gm

 

 

 

which calculator are you using?

 

 

Better but still seems a quite a bit higher than I'd expect.

 

Not used the MMT's before but these seem to indicate that they are a tip heavy shaft, not a high balance point shaft so shouldn't really need much tip weight at all.

 

 

 

 

 

When it comes to tip weights like these:

https://billybobsgolf.com/product/brass-swingweight-for-heavy-graphite-shafts-with-small-mandrel-hole/

or

https://billybobsgolf.com/product/brass-swingweights-for-graphite-shafts/

 

They will not be a problem as far as any risk to breaking the shaft - although it's a fairly common misconception - so you'll run across many people who think they will be.   Nor will there be any effect on the flex of the shaft.   Sorry, that part of the shaft really doesn't bend much due to the reinforcing to deal with the high stresses at the top of the hosel.   You'd have to go pretty high up the shaft (> 4-6") before you'd need to worry about that.

 

However, they sometimes can be problematic when it comes to potentially causing rattles in the shaft.   Masking tape can be used to add a little cushioning to help prevent that.  Not a great idea to epoxy them in place since it's difficult to get them out again w/o damaging the shaft.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've used both Okrasa and Leaderboard with the same results and also compared to my last build at D3-D4 so don't think that's the problem. 

 

Yes that's what I expected as well.. But guess there is a difference from S300 still since the clubs was D7-D8 with those.. 

 

Thanks, I used that type of weight and installed them yesterday. Actually did not go as far up the shaft as I thought, think they stopped around the ferrule so I'm not worried anymore. That makes total sense, just wanted a second opinion since I did not find any proper info online. I did glue them though since the shafts are pulls and I do not expect to reuse them 🙂

 

So far this is what I have come up with that might cause the swingweight change;

  • 1/2" extended compared to 1" with S300
  • Extensions at 1" due to hardstep, the shafts being cut to std length before
  • 60g grips
  • Weights in 6 of 8 S300 shafts

Cobra F9 Speedback 9° - Fujikura Atmos Black Tour Spec 7x

TaylorMade M4 3w 15° - Oban Devotion 8 05-flex (85g)

PXG 0311X Xtreme Dark 2i - Accra 100i x-flex

Mizuno MP-67 3-9i - Mitsubishi MMT 105TX, 1x hardstep

Daiwa DG-201 3-10i - Fujikura Pro 115 Tour X 

Callaway JAWS 46/52/58 - Mitsubishi MMT 105TX

Scotty Cameron Studio Design 3.5

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10 hours ago, shellbmb said:

I built a few sets with MMT 105 TX and SW was never an issue as they were pretty tip heavy.  

 

Does hardstepping affect SW at all?  

 

Yes, that's what I would expect too. Would have expected something close to my Fujikura Pro 115 at D3-D4 with Tour Wrap Midsize. 

 

9 hours ago, dmeeksDC said:

Something seems off. My club fitter buddy says MMT are known to swing weight as heavy as steel or even a bit heavier due to the metal mesh in the tip. He tells clients it’s a tough shaft to build over length and keep swing weight down.
 

I wanted to try an MMT 95, in a slightly heavier than standard Nike Pro Combo 6 iron head (264g) from Japan. Shorter builds are popular there so heads can be a half-club heavier than ‘standard.’  At 37.50 length it swing weighted at D4.5. I don’t like the feel of high swing weight so ended up putting a KBS Tour-V 100 in it and the higher balance dropped it to D1.5. 

 

Interesting, but not too high still? My 6i is 253g and D0 with an added 8g weight now and 60g grip.. Going to be interesting to see if it feels like D0 too.. 😉

 

8 hours ago, WristySwing said:

 

This is 100% true.  I sold a set of MMT125 after a fitting that swingweight to D6.5 at 1/2" over with Lamkin Sonar+ grips on the demo shaft.  My builder told me after he couldn't get them there and they were closer to D8 even with Z-Cord Mids when finally built.  I messaged the client a couple of weeks ago to see how things are and he loves them, even if they are bit hefty.

 

Oh that's high! But the 125 version is also like 11g heavier than the 105 version? Guess it might differ in balance point too? 

 

8 hours ago, JDennis said:

My MMT 105 S are .75 over and Swing weight D7-D8. Factory Cobra build

 

I just built a 50 GW with a MMT 105S wedge shaft. No tip weight, .75 over and a Z cord mid grip and it weighed in at D4

 

Sounds very high for a factory build? Do you like them at D7-D8? 🙂 My Callaway Jaws wedges are D3, D5 and E1 (46°, 52° and 58°) factory built 🙂

 

Cobra F9 Speedback 9° - Fujikura Atmos Black Tour Spec 7x

TaylorMade M4 3w 15° - Oban Devotion 8 05-flex (85g)

PXG 0311X Xtreme Dark 2i - Accra 100i x-flex

Mizuno MP-67 3-9i - Mitsubishi MMT 105TX, 1x hardstep

Daiwa DG-201 3-10i - Fujikura Pro 115 Tour X 

Callaway JAWS 46/52/58 - Mitsubishi MMT 105TX

Scotty Cameron Studio Design 3.5

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2 hours ago, jsandell said:

 

I've used both Okrasa and Leaderboard with the same results and also compared to my last build at D3-D4 so don't think that's the problem. 

 

Yes that's what I expected as well.. But guess there is a difference from S300 still since the clubs was D7-D8 with those.. 

 

Thanks, I used that type of weight and installed them yesterday. Actually did not go as far up the shaft as I thought, think they stopped around the ferrule so I'm not worried anymore. That makes total sense, just wanted a second opinion since I did not find any proper info online. I did glue them though since the shafts are pulls and I do not expect to reuse them 🙂

 

So far this is what I have come up with that might cause the swingweight change;

  • 1/2" extended compared to 1" with S300
  • Extensions at 1" due to hardstep, the shafts being cut to std length before
  • 60g grips
  • Weights in 6 of 8 S300 shafts

 

 

The extensions maybe be the reason for the low readings.  Didn't know about those.  That's actually one of the reasons I asked if they were new or used in the first response.

 

But you should NOT add be adding head weight to compensate for either the weight of the extensions or the heavier grips.    That's not something the swing weight concept was ever intended to deal with.

 

What you really should do is build one club (mid-iron) with no tip weights.   Then go to the range and test out how it feels.   Then add lead tape to the head incrementally (~2 gm increments) and see how the feel and performance change.    Repeat to dial in the best head weight.     Then when you're done and have found the best feel/performance - only then should you go to the swing weight calculator, measure that one club and use that value to build the rest of the set  (or go back and replace any lead tape with tip weights for the test club).

Edited by Stuart_G
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19 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

 

 

The extensions maybe be the reason for the low readings.  Didn't know about those.  That's actually one of the reasons I asked if they were new or used in the first response.

 

But you should NOT add be adding head weight to compensate for either the weight of the extensions or the heavier grips.    That's not something the swing weight concept was ever intended to deal with.

 

What you really should do is build one club (mid-iron) with no tip weights.   Then go to the range and test out how it feels.   Then add lead tape to the head incrementally (~2 gm increments) and see how the feel and performance change.    Repeat to dial in the best head weight.     Then when you're done and have found the best feel/performance - only then should you go to the swing weight calculator, measure that one club and use that value to build the rest of the set  (or go back and replace any lead tape with tip weights for the test club).

 

Yes I see that, but they are not that heavy so they should not affect it more than one point or so since it takes 5g in that end. I will weigh an extension when I get another one, currently they are all glued to the clubs but I need one more identical extension for my 3w so I will make sure to measure this before fitting it! 🙂 

 

No I've realized that, so with "normal" grips the swing weight should be 2 points higher due to this. 

 

With these considerations I would have something comparable to D3 or maybe D4 with the current setup which is totally fine for me. I do play D3-D4 in my Daiwa set with Midsize grips and no extensions so those are still "heavier" than the Mizunos. Swingweights are ofc comparable if you compare apples to apples, i.e midsize and midsize. Even though the numbers might not be comparable to std grips.  

 

Unfortunately I do not have access to a shaft puller to use this approach even though I totally see the point of it in other cases, and I would not be able to use heavier weights anyway so this will have to do for now. If I need/want more weight in the heads I will have to go the lead-tape route anyway 😉

Will definitely consider this if I ever build another set of irons though!

Cobra F9 Speedback 9° - Fujikura Atmos Black Tour Spec 7x

TaylorMade M4 3w 15° - Oban Devotion 8 05-flex (85g)

PXG 0311X Xtreme Dark 2i - Accra 100i x-flex

Mizuno MP-67 3-9i - Mitsubishi MMT 105TX, 1x hardstep

Daiwa DG-201 3-10i - Fujikura Pro 115 Tour X 

Callaway JAWS 46/52/58 - Mitsubishi MMT 105TX

Scotty Cameron Studio Design 3.5

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57 minutes ago, jsandell said:

 

Yes I see that, but they are not that heavy so they should not affect it more than one point or so since it takes 5g in that end.

 

If that's true, then there is very likely something else going wrong with your calculations.

 

 

57 minutes ago, jsandell said:

I will weigh an extension when I get another one, currently they are all glued to the clubs but I need one more identical extension for my 3w so I will make sure to measure this before fitting it! 🙂 

 

Which extensions are you using?

 

57 minutes ago, jsandell said:

Unfortunately I do not have access to a shaft puller to use this approach even though I totally see the point of it in other cases,

 

You only do the test with one club.  So you don't really need a puller as long as you don't mind keeping the lead tape on that one test club.

 

And if you ever get the inclination - there are a few threads on here on DIY shaft puller designs if you want to save money.    But if you really are getting into club work the way it seems - it's really going to be a necessity to have a puller.

 

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4 hours ago, jsandell said:

Oh that's high! But the 125 version is also like 11g heavier than the 105 version? Guess it might differ in balance point too? 

 

It's possible the balance point is different, but then it wouldn't technically be an MMT then, it would be a different shaft.  Manufacturers rarely change a profile significantly from flex to flex and weight to weight.  This is one of the reasons why I really dislike the swing weight system in general, it drives people to drink trying to get it to work to what they think it should be when often times it is best to just let things fall where they may and play them as they were intended.  It just seems strange to me as Stuart mentioned, that you have shafts that should account for maximum 2SW point drop are suddenly 12.5 points lighter at the same length and similar grip??  Something just doesn't add up here.  I know you said you have done this before but something just seems off, like the math is so far off it would have me start all over again weighing the heads, the shafts, the grips and quintuple checking my math as it is like so far off its not even on the same planet anymore.

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I am on the quest for the clubs I hit the best, feel and looks be darned.

These below have my attention at the moment.

 

SIM - Rogue Silver 130

Speedzone Tour Big - Arcane

Rogue Sub Zero - Thump 

0211DC 5-PW - Elevate Tour

SM8 50/F, 54/D, 58/M - i123

Bettinardi Hive Custom

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17 minutes ago, WristySwing said:

It's possible the balance point is different, but then it wouldn't technically be an MMT then, it would be a different shaft.  Manufacturers rarely change a profile significantly from flex to flex and weight to weight.

 

Usually true - but outliers do exist.  Like the steelfiber i95 swing weighting 3 points heavier than the i110.

 

Then there are the fact that these are pulls.   I wonder if something was done (intentionally or unintentionally) by the previous owner that altered the weight or balance point.    I would suggest a thorough inspection of the interior of those shafts.    Also agree that he should check all the cut shaft weights before assembling.  Even with the extensions already installed it might provide some useful information.

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12 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

 

If that's true, then there is very likely something else going wrong with your calculations.

 

 

 

Which extensions are you using?

 

 

You only do the test with one club.  So you don't really need a puller as long as you don't mind keeping the lead tape on that one test club.

 

And if you ever get the inclination - there are a few threads on here on DIY shaft puller designs if you want to save money.    But if you really are getting into club work the way it seems - it's really going to be a necessity to have a puller.

 

 

Not sure why it should be anymore, D3-D4 should be pretty reasonable with those light heads at +1/2"?!

 

Some generic extension from my local clubmaker, not sure what brand but looks like the Parage but with lines for every 1/2" of extension.

 

Yeah I've been looking at that, both a shaft puller and a DIY swing weight scale, already found a proper spring for the puller 🙂

 

14 minutes ago, WristySwing said:

 

It's possible the balance point is different, but then it wouldn't technically be an MMT then, it would be a different shaft.  Manufacturers rarely change a profile significantly from flex to flex and weight to weight.  This is one of the reasons why I really dislike the swing weight system in general, it drives people to drink trying to get it to work to what they think it should be when often times it is best to just let things fall where they may and play them as they were intended.  It just seems strange to me as Stuart mentioned, that you have shafts that should account for maximum 2SW point drop are suddenly 12.5 points lighter at the same length and similar grip??  Something just doesn't add up here.  I know you said you have done this before but something just seems off, like the math is so far off it would have me start all over again weighing the heads, the shafts, the grips and quintuple checking my math as it is like so far off its not even on the same planet anymore.

 

5 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

 

Usually true - but outliers do exist.  Like the steelfiber i95 swing weighting 3 points heavier than the i110.

 

Then there are the fact that these are pulls.   I wonder if something was done (intentionally or unintentionally) by the previous owner that altered the weight or balance point.    I would suggest a thorough inspection of the interior of those shafts.    Also check all the cut shaft weights before assembling.  Even with the extenions already installed it might provide some useful information.

 

Not sure there is an actual problem though as I said above, but here are the weights of each shaft (calculated from total build weight minus the tip-weight, head weight and grip);

 

417
407,5
394
383
369
354,5
345,5

 

There is a +-2,5g deviation in the progression (9-14,5g per club) but I'm not sure as to how exact the progression should be? 

Cobra F9 Speedback 9° - Fujikura Atmos Black Tour Spec 7x

TaylorMade M4 3w 15° - Oban Devotion 8 05-flex (85g)

PXG 0311X Xtreme Dark 2i - Accra 100i x-flex

Mizuno MP-67 3-9i - Mitsubishi MMT 105TX, 1x hardstep

Daiwa DG-201 3-10i - Fujikura Pro 115 Tour X 

Callaway JAWS 46/52/58 - Mitsubishi MMT 105TX

Scotty Cameron Studio Design 3.5

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9 minutes ago, jsandell said:

Not sure there is an actual problem though as I said above, but here are the weights of each shaft (calculated from total build weight minus the tip-weight, head weight and grip);

 

 

417
407,5
394
383
369
354,5
345,5

 

There is a +-2,5g deviation in the progression (9-14,5g per club) but I'm not sure as to how exact the progression should be? 

 

 

Those look like total club static weights, not shaft weights.  Cut shaft weights should be in the ball park of 105 to 110 gm before the extensions were added (113 gm uncut weight for the 105TX).

 

For MMT taper shafts, there should be no progression to the shaft weights (they should all be the same weight).

 

Club total static weight progression should be ~7 gm.

Edited by Stuart_G
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1 minute ago, Stuart_G said:

 

 

Some of the numbers might be missing.  Those look like total club static weights, not shaft weights.

 

For MMT taper shafts, there should be no progression to the shaft weights (they should all be the same weight).

 

Club total static weight progression should be ~7 gm.

 

My bad, used the wrong column and did not reflect on the weights at all 🤣

 

122
124
120,5
121
123
121

121

 

Seems a tad high for some shafts being 117g stock, the extensions might get them to 121g at least? But 124 seems a bit off?  

Cobra F9 Speedback 9° - Fujikura Atmos Black Tour Spec 7x

TaylorMade M4 3w 15° - Oban Devotion 8 05-flex (85g)

PXG 0311X Xtreme Dark 2i - Accra 100i x-flex

Mizuno MP-67 3-9i - Mitsubishi MMT 105TX, 1x hardstep

Daiwa DG-201 3-10i - Fujikura Pro 115 Tour X 

Callaway JAWS 46/52/58 - Mitsubishi MMT 105TX

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26 minutes ago, WristySwing said:

 

It just seems strange to me as Stuart mentioned, that you have shafts that should account for maximum 2SW point drop are suddenly 12.5 points lighter at the same length and similar grip??  Something just doesn't add up here. 


Agreed. And to confirm what has been mentioned previously, MMT iron shafts do NOT swingweight lighter as they are designed to be tip heavy like steel. They have a similarly below neutral "low" balance point as Dynamic Golds.

It seems like the 1/2" of length you're missing + heavier grips + possibly heavier extensions are all adding up to mess with your readings. -1/2" is a legitimate 3 swingweight point drop, whereas the 10g of extra grip weight and potentially 5g of extension weight would account for another 3 lower on the scale. That doesn't fit at all with the 12-13pts you calculated originally so i'd have to assume there is an error somewhere there. 

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Uncut weight is 113 gm.    Assuming a 1.25" BBGM for the heads, that means ~109 gm cut shaft weight for a standard length build.   Which means the extension, epoxy and/or something else -  is adding 13-15 gm.   If that's all in the butt end of the club - you're swing weight calcs will be off roughly an addition 3 points on top of what the heavier grip does.

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4 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

Uncut weight is 113 gm.    Assuming a 1.25" BBGM for the heads, that means ~109 gm cut shaft weight for a standard length build.   Which means the extension, epoxy and/or something else -  is adding 13-15 gm.   If that's all in the butt end of the club - you're swing weight calcs will be off roughly an addition 3 points on top of what the heavier grip does.


The website says 113g but Fit2Score has 117.8g for the 105TX. I wonder if the 113g was meant to represent cut weight then. Agreed with the rest though, I just don't think the extension if quite that heavy.

Edited by Valtiel

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Taylormade SIM V2 16.5* Kuro Kage Prototype 80TX || Taylormade M5 16.5* Diamana D+ LTD 80TX 
Taylormade M5 19* Tensei Pro White 90TX || Srixon ZX Utility 18* Fujikura Motore Speeder HB9.8 Tour Spec-X
Callaway X-Forged UT 22* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
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J40 DPC 4i-7i 24*- 35* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
Bridgestone J40 CB 8i-PW 39*- 48* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0

Taylormade Milled Grind Raw 54* Brunswick Precision Rifle FCM 7.0
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I use graphite shafts too, and I've had some success using really lightweight grips to get the feel right. The SuperStroke grips feel really good and they weigh like 42g I think? They're very affordable too. 

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7 hours ago, Valtiel said:


Agreed. And to confirm what has been mentioned previously, MMT iron shafts do NOT swingweight lighter as they are designed to be tip heavy like steel. They have a similarly below neutral "low" balance point as Dynamic Golds.

It seems like the 1/2" of length you're missing + heavier grips + possibly heavier extensions are all adding up to mess with your readings. -1/2" is a legitimate 3 swingweight point drop, whereas the 10g of extra grip weight and potentially 5g of extension weight would account for another 3 lower on the scale. That doesn't fit at all with the 12-13pts you calculated originally so i'd have to assume there is an error somewhere there. 

 

Yes, maybe you missed that I stated that already; ?

On 9/21/2022 at 4:41 PM, jsandell said:

Haha no worries, need to thank you for questioning me since I've apparently put in the wrong numbers in the calculator multiple times.. feeling a bit silly atm. 

The swing weights are calculated but should as you know be a fairly ok estimate depending on how well I've managed to measure the balance point.

I still need 12g weights though to get the clubs to D3 though but I will at least be at D1 with the 8g weights that I have found that fits inside the tip of the shafts. 

 

Cobra F9 Speedback 9° - Fujikura Atmos Black Tour Spec 7x

TaylorMade M4 3w 15° - Oban Devotion 8 05-flex (85g)

PXG 0311X Xtreme Dark 2i - Accra 100i x-flex

Mizuno MP-67 3-9i - Mitsubishi MMT 105TX, 1x hardstep

Daiwa DG-201 3-10i - Fujikura Pro 115 Tour X 

Callaway JAWS 46/52/58 - Mitsubishi MMT 105TX

Scotty Cameron Studio Design 3.5

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7 hours ago, Valtiel said:


The website says 113g but Fit2Score has 117.8g for the 105TX. I wonder if the 113g was meant to represent cut weight then. Agreed with the rest though, I just don't think the extension if quite that heavy.

 

When I did my build, the cut weight of my 7 iron playing 37" final length, was 113g.  

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7 hours ago, Stuart_G said:

Uncut weight is 113 gm.    Assuming a 1.25" BBGM for the heads, that means ~109 gm cut shaft weight for a standard length build.   Which means the extension, epoxy and/or something else -  is adding 13-15 gm.   If that's all in the butt end of the club - you're swing weight calcs will be off roughly an addition 3 points on top of what the heavier grip does.

I see, all weights are "dry" though.. I have not had the time to measure the built clubs yet since it has currently been 24h since I glued them 😉

 

7 hours ago, Valtiel said:


The website says 113g but Fit2Score has 117.8g for the 105TX. I wonder if the 113g was meant to represent cut weight then. Agreed with the rest though, I just don't think the extension if quite that heavy.

Hmm, yes something might be slightly off still but not by much I'd say 🙂 think we've figured out most contributors to the lower swingweight 🙂

 

3 hours ago, JDennis said:

  

I love the irons. D4-D7 I can't really tell a difference. I don't like the D0-D2 clubs, can definitely feel a difference there. 

Would agree with you, I seem to notice the change from D1 to D3 more than from D3 to D7..! 🙂

 

2 hours ago, me05501 said:

I use graphite shafts too, and I've had some success using really lightweight grips to get the feel right. The SuperStroke grips feel really good and they weigh like 42g I think? They're very affordable too. 

Oh, what shafts are you using? I've had no problems with my Daiwa w/ Fujikura Pro 115 and Tour Wraps in midsize 🙂

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Cobra F9 Speedback 9° - Fujikura Atmos Black Tour Spec 7x

TaylorMade M4 3w 15° - Oban Devotion 8 05-flex (85g)

PXG 0311X Xtreme Dark 2i - Accra 100i x-flex

Mizuno MP-67 3-9i - Mitsubishi MMT 105TX, 1x hardstep

Daiwa DG-201 3-10i - Fujikura Pro 115 Tour X 

Callaway JAWS 46/52/58 - Mitsubishi MMT 105TX

Scotty Cameron Studio Design 3.5

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