Playing "Aggressive" vs "Safe"

[msg]

53 minutes ago, larrybud said:

But that's not where they are losing the most strokes. 

I've been taught growing up to chase birdies. This year after using Shot Scope, I checked my stats from 2018 to pre Shot Scope. I actually make more doubles or more than I make birdies. 6% birdies versus 12% doubles or more. I started focusing on double bogey avoidance and let birdies happen if they do happen and stopped forcing them by trying to execute really aggressive shots (stupid shots). I am now at 6% birdies and 8% doubles or more. I have shot the most single digits over par in one season in my whole playing career and I am playing close to a 5 handicap now as opposed to 9 when the season started. 

Doubles, if they show up, are rarely from ob tee shots or penalties but rather from bad around the green play, combined with three putts. Definitely feels better because I know I can adjust those in the offseason. 🙂 

Edited October 3, 2022 by msg

[Krt22]

Safe and aggressive are both highly subjective terms, both of which are accompanied by lots of handwaving in the context of course strategy. 

 

Off the tee, hit it as far as you can without bringing penalties into play. Approaching the green, pick targets that don't bring bogey or worse into play.

[vandyfan]

In life, I am generally quite risk adverse. I find I have a much longer memory for mistakes vs successes and find I hate bogeys more than I like birdies, if that makes sense. As such, this translates directly to my golf game whereby I would say I play quite conservatively. This extends itself to a specific situation that I encounter often and I wonder how many other people (probably not many on GolfWRX) respond similarly to the same scenario:

 

Par 5 (for me anything 475 yds or more is going to be a layup probably since I only hit driver about 260) with trouble short. I find, in many cases, unless the landing zone between hazards is like 70 yds+, I am just hitting hybrid here. I can't reach (or there is too much risk in trying) it in two anyway (because of the trouble short) so I might as well make sure I am in the fairway. And if I miss the fairway with a hybrid I was damn sure going to miss it with driver. A good example is True Blue #1 (which is a pretty wide fairway) but I still hit Hybrid:

 

 

I have played True Blue 4 times and I don't think I have ever seen anyone that I played with take less than driver here. Am I just a complete coward?

Edited October 3, 2022 by vandyfan

[Barfolomew]

There is a right of passage with playin aggressive...

 

The more you do it the more normal and easier it gets to bomb driver on holes where others knees are shaking

 

But you've earned that right by going through all the lumps to get to a spot where a tight fairway and hitting driver hard is par for the course 🦃

[otto6457]

I made a decision three years ago to use the DECADE program and I no longer have to deviate from a plan on how to approach any course I have to play.  There are days I'm hitting it better than others but that doesn't change my approach.  Its been a great stress relief on the course during competition as my decision tree does all the work for me.  I just plug in the numbers and my target is set.  Go through my pre shot routine and pull the trigger.  My mental score after rounds is now most of my focus as I still struggle some with commitment to shots.  Having great targets doesn't automatically make you a better player.  Better execution to better targets will make you a better player.

 

DECADE isn't the best program for everyone.   But it has helped me manage stress better and it helps to quiet all the background noise in my head that tended to occur when I'm trying to get a score into the clubhouse.

[nsxguy]

2 hours ago, MelloYello said:

 

"On the way to birdies, many pars are found." 

 

-Confucius, Swing Secrets of the Master

 

"As are many "others""

 

-nsxguy

[ShortGolfer]

I play on a short executive course with some challenging par 3s with small greens.

The 4th hole is only 100 yards, but I've gone 10 yards to the right, clipped a tree, and had the ball bounce out of bounds into the water.

I've also reached the green and done an easy two putt for par 3.

 

Laying up by hitting it to the left of the green can also result in a big score if your lob wedge goes over the green into the stream on the right side of the  hole. 

Or into the woods behind the green.

 

If you are older or out of shape the downhill walk can affect your legs and throw off your swing.

Edited October 3, 2022 by ShortGolfer

[MelloYello]

48 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

"As are many "others""

 

-nsxguy

 

Well, I can promise you this, once you get good enough to avoid doubles and you're shooting around par, you start focusing on birdies because that's what the next-level guy is doing that you're not. You don't shoot in the 60s merely because you're good at avoiding doubles. 

 

Getting to the next level is rarely index-dependent. It's basically all the same--hit better shots. Hit the ball more squarely, hit it nearer the center of the face and hit it straighter. 

 

You want to make fewer doubles? Do those things. 

Want to make more birdies? Do those things. 

 

Birdies, pars, doubles....they're merely outcomes. What gets you there is the same--better golf shots and 90% of that is being in control of where the ball is going off the face. 

 

.

Edited October 3, 2022 by MelloYello

[ChaosTheory]

3 hours ago, MelloYello said:

 

"On the way to birdies, many pars are found." 

 

-Confucius, Swing Secrets of the Master

As a 10 index, I would reverse that.

[gripandrip]

As others have said... it depends on the situation. But I will play practice rounds, and even when playing with the Saturday morning group, that I will take on the aggressive shots.  Hitting the shot in reality and hitting the shot on the range are two entirely different things. Sometimes you just need the pressure to get over going after a scary looking shot that you should be able to hit 9 of 10 times on the range. If you never practice it.. you will never have it when you need it. What I would consider "aggressive" before, is becoming more of a standard game. I just need to stay away from crazy and just plain stupid. It's sometimes a fine line.

[Dixie Flatline]

On 9/28/2022 at 2:35 PM, alittleoverpar said:

I end up playing at least one round of golf a week by myself.  This gives me the opportunity to work on something or test things out on my own without affecting my playing partners.  I decided this Summer that I would alternate between aggressive rounds and safe rounds.  For my aggressive rounds I would advance the ball as far as possible from the tee, go for all par 5s in two, and shoot at every pin.  For my safe rounds I would select a club off the tee that was likely to find the fairway, play par 5s conservatively, and not shoot at sucker pins.  Maybe not completely scientific, but I was curious what the results would be.  On the average, I shot 2 - 3 strokes better in my aggressive rounds.  To a large extent it throws out the fairways and greens argument in favor of bomb and gouge.  One factor that needs to be quantified is that all of these rounds were played on the same golf course, and it is a course that I am very familiar with.  I believe that would make any "trouble" shots that I had be somewhat easier than an equivalent shot on an unfamiliar course.  However, based on my findings, my plan is to play aggressively going forward in all rounds.

 

I think you are on somewhat of the right track.  In tournament rounds, I use DECADE.  I'm pretty aggressive off the tee, but then I base approach shot strategy on what club I'm hitting and my shot pattern.  The idea is bogey avoidance.  Short clubs are aggressive, longer clubs, conservative.  Generally on Par 5's, I try to get as close to the green as I can without bringing penalty hazards or trees into play.

 

That said, one thing I see missing from these discussions is a consideration of what game you are playing and what your goal is.

 

For instance, my group commonly plays a dot game where you get a dot for birdie, winning the hole, sandies, an up and down prop bet, and closest to the pin on 3's and 5's.  Two tie all tie on holes.

 

My tournament strategy is not the best strategy for this game.  Shooting the lowest score does not always result in winning the most money.  In this game it is much more profitable to play aggressively within reason as the financial reward for birdie is higher and missing the green can be more profitable than hitting the green and two putting, with the other garbage.

 

Finally, as a twist, on 16, 17, and 18, the player who is down the most can make the hole value and birdie amount up to however many he is down. 

 

It's a fun game, but before a "real tournament,"  you have to spend a little time getting into the tournament mindset.  99% of the time, I'm playing for fun and our game is fun.

[nsxguy]

3 hours ago, MelloYello said:

 

Well, I can promise you this, once you get good enough to avoid doubles and you're shooting around par, you start focusing on birdies because that's what the next-level guy is doing that you're not. You don't shoot in the 60s merely because you're good at avoiding doubles. 

 

Getting to the next level is rarely index-dependent. It's basically all the same--hit better shots. Hit the ball more squarely, hit it nearer the center of the face and hit it straighter. 

 

You want to make fewer doubles? Do those things. 

Want to make more birdies? Do those things. 

 

Birdies, pars, doubles....they're merely outcomes. What gets you there is the same--better golf shots and 90% of that is being in control of where the ball is going off the face. 

 

.

 

On 9/28/2022 at 3:07 PM, nsxguy said:

you need to know when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em. (Sorry Kenny )

 

[SNIPERBBB]

2 hours ago, Dixie Flatline said:

 

I think you are on somewhat of the right track.  In tournament rounds, I use DECADE.  I'm pretty aggressive off the tee, but then I base approach shot strategy on what club I'm hitting and my shot pattern.  The idea is bogey avoidance.  Short clubs are aggressive, longer clubs, conservative.  Generally on Par 5's, I try to get as close to the green as I can without bringing penalty hazards or trees into play.

 

That said, one thing I see missing from these discussions is a consideration of what game you are playing and what your goal is.

 

For instance, my group commonly plays a dot game where you get a dot for birdie, winning the hole, sandies, an up and down prop bet, and closest to the pin on 3's and 5's.  Two tie all tie on holes.

 

My tournament strategy is not the best strategy for this game.  Shooting the lowest score does not always result in winning the most money.  In this game it is much more profitable to play aggressively within reason as the financial reward for birdie is higher and missing the green can be more profitable than hitting the green and two putting, with the other garbage.

 

Finally, as a twist, on 16, 17, and 18, the player who is down the most can make the hole value and birdie amount up to however many he is down. 

 

It's a fun game, but before a "real tournament,"  you have to spend a little time getting into the tournament mindset.  99% of the time, I'm playing for fun and our game is fun.

There's that as well.. We play a team modified stableford usually best 3 of 4 scores count for each team. Double or worse counts 0. Don't want to give par away but with a throwaway score, playing more aggressive works out better for points

[wadesworld]

The mantra I've seen for good players is "Try for par, but protect bogey."  Birdies either just happen, or more rarely, happen when you have an absolute green-light situation and can attack. Indeed, getting the ball closer to the green is better - if you can do so safely.