Dan Grieve - 3 releases. Fantastic Short Game Video

[Inexorable_Fate]

I just finished Dan Grieve's book and tried his techniques in practice for a couple weeks.

 

One of the main aspects of his lessons is that setup creates outcomes. He has different setups for each of his three releases, as well as uses setup to determine shot length for partial distance wedges.

 

For partial wedges, the use of setup to determine distance is a huge improvement on the Pelz clock method. Adding this has made my partial wedges more consistent.

 

It's too bad this thread started with some clearly misinterpreted views of Dan's concepts. His book is very clearly written and worth the time because no single video or post here is going to capture all his ideas.

 

[Doppelganger]

I watched some Grieve videos but I just feel like the long backswing + low gear swing is going to stall my hands and cause problems.

[nitram]

11 hours ago, Doppelganger said:

I watched some Grieve videos but I just feel like the long backswing + low gear swing is going to stall my hands and cause problems.

 

You'll never know until you try it . . .

[Hawkeye77]

23 hours ago, Doppelganger said:

I watched some Grieve videos but I just feel like the long backswing + low gear swing is going to stall my hands and cause problems.

Long backswing?

[Laaandry]

Was finally able to get out on the golf course, though pretty weird turf conditions right now in the northern midwest.

 

I had been practicing specifically pitching distances using the A1-3 system on a simulator with fantastic results. On the course, not so much, but I do blame the slightly wet, grippy grass for that. That being said, I think it highlights the need to practice pitching on actual grass and not a mat.

 

Chips have been great. I've gone from being an almost exclusively 60* player around the greens to more so using a gap wedge that somehow generates more spin on release 1 chips. Very happy with that part of the game. Pitching I need to get some real outside time with.

[Rearviewmirror]

22 hours ago, Laaandry said:

I had been practicing specifically pitching distances using the A1-3 system on a simulator with fantastic results. On the course, not so much, but I do blame the slightly wet, grippy grass for that. That being said, I think it highlights the need to practice pitching on actual grass and not a mat.

 

I think Dan's release 1 (and the augmented back in stance or toe up versions for weird lies) are really A++.

 

My challenge is that I've currently fallen off the wagon with release 2. When I first got the book it was a revelation and I was pitching everything close from 40 yards and in. Now it's the opposite - chunks, thin shots, everything in between...

 

Has anyone used Dan's online coaching to get advice? I know the technique works as I managed it in the past, but right now I feel a bit lost...

[joemcsorleypreswickGC]

On 3/16/2024 at 12:42 PM, Rearviewmirror said:

 

I think Dan's release 1 (and the augmented back in stance or toe up versions for weird lies) are really A++.

 

My challenge is that I've currently fallen off the wagon with release 2. When I first got the book it was a revelation and I was pitching everything close from 40 yards and in. Now it's the opposite - chunks, thin shots, everything in between...

 

Has anyone used Dan's online coaching to get advice? I know the technique works as I managed it in the past, but right now I feel a bit lost...

I agree with you view on Release 2 for longer pitch shots, think he tries to engage the bounce a bit too much from this far out, i`ve had major problems with high floaty shots with no spin and often pull the daylights out of them due to the hand dominant release.

 

Watch TW or Spieth hit pitch shots from 50-100 yards and its handle leading compression based shot.

[Rearviewmirror]

1 hour ago, joemcsorleypreswickGC said:

I agree with you view on Release 2 for longer pitch shots, think he tries to engage the bounce a bit too much from this far out, i`ve had major problems with high floaty shots with no spin and often pull the daylights out of them due to the hand dominant release.

 

I actually realized this may be a club fit issue for me and I'm getting my 54 and 58 lengthened to be the same length as my PW/UW. I think the clubs were just too short for me!

[MattC555]

2 hours ago, joemcsorleypreswickGC said:

I agree with you view on Release 2 for longer pitch shots, think he tries to engage the bounce a bit too much from this far out, i`ve had major problems with high floaty shots with no spin and often pull the daylights out of them due to the hand dominant release.

 

Watch TW or Spieth hit pitch shots from 50-100 yards and its handle leading compression based shot.

 

High floaty shots are a result of the ball riding up the face with grass in between it and the club face.  Basically, you're getting underneath it.  You shouldn't be engaging the bounce much, if at all, prior to ball contact on the longer pitch shots.  This is especially true on fluffy lies.  In these cases, the bounce is there to help you if your a bit fat and to keep the club from digging.  Hard pulls are club face and path issues.   

 

This is also not a 100 yard technique.  Dan applies it from 30-90 yards and says in the book that the max yardage is going to be based on your swing speed.  I'd say this technique runs out closer to 60-70 yards for the average player.  I'm a higher swing speed player and I abandon the release 2 at about 50 yards.  I'll use release 1 up to 90 yards, as at these longer distances I'm spinning the ball enough with release 1.  If I need more height I'll go to a higher lofted wedge, which Dan recommends.  This is more aligned with the TW/Spieth shots you're referencing.     

[Hawkeye77]

2 hours ago, joemcsorleypreswickGC said:

I agree with you view on Release 2 for longer pitch shots, think he tries to engage the bounce a bit too much from this far out, i`ve had major problems with high floaty shots with no spin and often pull the daylights out of them due to the hand dominant release.

 

Watch TW or Spieth hit pitch shots from 50-100 yards and its handle leading compression based shot.

 

Tiger can hit all sorts of shots and situations/variables make a big difference, but IMO you'll see a lot more 9-3 shallow and releasing looking shots than some sort of handle leading as you describe from shorter yardages and plenty of release on longer shots, in general.  

 

I guess I wouldn't call his release 2 a hand dominant release at all, but maybe that's what it feels like because of your normal swing? Maybe injecting more of a flip? Maybe I'm so far off base I'm at the concession stand?

 

 

[joemcsorleypreswickGC]

11 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

 

Tiger can hit all sorts of shots and situations/variables make a big difference, but IMO you'll see a lot more 9-3 shallow and releasing looking shots than some sort of handle leading as you describe from shorter yardages and plenty of release on longer shots, in general.  

 

I guess I wouldn't call his release 2 a hand dominant release at all, but maybe that's what it feels like because of your normal swing? Maybe injecting more of a flip? Maybe I'm so far off base I'm at the concession stand?

 

 

I do love a 70 yard snipe hook off the tee every so often so i could easily be in the wrong here! 

[Hawkeye77]

1 hour ago, joemcsorleypreswickGC said:

I do love a 70 yard snipe hook off the tee every so often so i could easily be in the wrong here! 

I don’t think “wrong” - sometimes I think I’m implementing something and I’m not, often going to an extreme, lol, not saying that’s your situation. 

[Golf_Goof]

Haven't read the book yet but watched a few of his videos. It's unreal how flippy release 2 feels to me. Release 3 is all leading edge for me so far,,,

 

R3 reminds me of this:

 

 

[Laaandry]

Well timed new video from Dan about pitching:

 

Interestingly he addresses some of the questions around a stock release 2 for pitching and notes that there's a subtle difference when using it for pitching, primarily rotating the face a bit more through impact. This seems to align with some of the experiences mentioned in this thread. He also goes on to say that you can interchange the release type depending on lie conditions and ball flight, which he has touched on before.

 

 

Edited March 22 by Laaandry

[Righty to Lefty]

Really like this content on the short game. 

 

 

Especially the part about how to properly use the bounce: 

 

[Michael Shanker]

The book was better.

[iacas]

1 hour ago, Righty to Lefty said:

Especially the part about how to properly use the bounce:

 

:sigh:

 

I've not seen anyone say that you should never use the bounce in a short game shot.

[NittanyCPA]

5 hours ago, Righty to Lefty said:

 

Especially the part about how to properly use the bounce: 

 

Yes, especially the part about how to properly use the bounce. You should watch that part a few dozen times.

[NittanyCPA]

5 hours ago, Michael Shanker said:

The book was better.

It really is a great book!

[CasualLie]

I look at Dan's book and his videos and it is all about setup, that first move back, and where you need to finish.  I would guess those struggling are too focused on the release details through impact, and really what you need it a solid understanding of where to finish and work backwards from there. 

 

Dan's stuff is great, and I am in no position to be telling Dan what to change, he's the pro instructor, I am just the "student" and person who practices short game a lot.  But if I were to change the labeling, I would call it three finishes, not three releases.

 

I am also believe for those struggling with chipping, you really need a baseline for feel.  Setup correct, get the club properly to P2 (or just a touch beyond) and learn just how little effort it takes to chip a ball with spin 12 yards give or take.  If you cannot manage a little bit of hinge and gravity doing most of the work, then everything else is going to be a struggle, and getting into finer details of three releases will be frustrating.  

 

 

 

[Righty to Lefty]

15 hours ago, NittanyCPA said:

Yes, especially the part about how to properly use the bounce. You should watch that part a few dozen times.

You are sooo correct.  I need some lessons.  

 

19 hours ago, iacas said:

 

:sigh:

 

I've not seen anyone say that you should never use the bounce in a short game shot.

Yet when it is mentioned that ams should use it more often than not you act as if the advice was instructing the athlete to hit the ball with the back of the club. The person getting the lesson in the video is not a rank beginner....he is a teaching pro that has played plenty of good golf in his life and he was previously "scared" to use the bounce as it is intended and engage the turf behind the ball. When Tour pros, club designers, or a teaching pro says it, you ignore it, but when I say it you feel compelled to reply.  Interesting.   

 

 

[iacas]

5 hours ago, Righty to Lefty said:

Yet when it is mentioned that ams should use it more often than not you act as if the advice was instructing the athlete to hit the ball with the back of the club.

 

This is not remotely accurate.

 

I recorded videos during COVID that you can find, and Day 7 on pitching is called "Sole or Glide". I've also written things like "This technique broadens the margin of error by using bounce or "glide" on the club" and "I use this shot 85 to 95% of the time around the green." (That's dropped a bit, as that was written back in 2010.)

 

About this video, I also wrote "I like a lot of what's shown in this video. Not many nits at which to pick."

 

I've posted photos from videos dating back over a decade of my teaching partner and myself hitting five balls off a mat using the bounce/sole/"glide" and again I will point out that it was our use of the word "glide" to describe the bounce on the club that led to PING calling their wedges Glide wedges for about a decade.

 

 

Buddy, you clearly don't know how wrong you've had it.

 

5 hours ago, Righty to Lefty said:

When Tour pros, club designers, or a teaching pro says it, you ignore it, but when I say it you feel compelled to reply.

 

That is also not remotely accurate, and all your post has managed to do is demonstrate how poorly you've read my posts and those of others.

 

Here's a good one for you:

 

 

There's a reason that post by @Valtiel is a "popular post" for pointing out your inability (or unwillingness) to read what people say to you. I strongly recommend you do so now (read his post).

 

Edited Thursday at 12:14 AM by iacas
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[seraphicD]

On 11/25/2022 at 6:40 PM, harveythomas said:

 

I had a pro teach me how to chip with the bounce this year which has been a revelation so now my finesse wedges are a big strength in my game rather than a terrible weakness and I up and down close to 50 percent now which has knocked 3-4 shots off my handicap.  

So, I'm trying to understand this. are you using shaft lean and opening the face a bit?