Club Champion fitting mystery…

[cocolamb22]

For reference, here’s another trackman (different facility) session I did 8 months prior. This is with my current 5 iron. Smash is better and swing speed is the same. 

[bladehunter]

What did impact look like vertically ?  Where is contact ?  
 

I find this myself with irons that have a high vertical center of gravity.  Checkout Maltby mpg for your current irons measurements vs the ones you tried. I bet they are much higher.  Smash will suffer greatly.  A lot of new irons are designed to be hit steep and or fat to get the vertical cog the the equator of the ball.  This hurts a guy who is shallow .   
 

 

[Krt22]

25 minutes ago, tthomasgolfer605 said:

Even at the swings where the angle of attack was -4 or so, the smash factor doesn't equate. I'm thinking the sim measured clubhead speed incorrectly with the 6 iron. 

 

Possible, but TM indoors typically under reads speed, not over reads them. At least that was my experience. The high launch/low spin combo on a lot of the shots is indicative of poor strike (as is the huge ball speed variability when his CHS is quite consistent)

[mgoblue83]

53 minutes ago, cocolamb22 said:

Interesting. My driver swing speed was accurate ( I’ve measured on 2 other local trackmans) so I wonder why the 6 iron was

measuring different. I’ll try and get on another trackman to measure the 6 iron specifically!

 

 

What was your driver ball speed average?

 

You say it's accurate because you like what it shows but that doesn't actually mean you were swinging at 120mph.

 

Usually Trackman is very accurate with speeds but in this case I'm guessing you are swinging 5-10mph slower than it's showing and the ball speed is accurate.  Most likely a faulty setup and/or interference issue. 

[cocolamb22]

10 minutes ago, mgoblue83 said:

 

 

What was your driver ball speed average?

 

You say it's accurate because you like what it shows but that doesn't actually mean you were swinging at 120mph.

 

Usually Trackman is very accurate with speeds but in this case I'm guessing you are swinging 5-10mph slower than it's showing and the ball speed is accurate.  Most likely a faulty setup and/or interference issue. 

Well to be clear,  I didn’t say it was accurate because I liked it, I said it was accurate based on 2 other trackman units that I hit balls on. I could care less about what the radar shows and more about my score, but if I can optimize what energy and speed I have, I want to do it. 
 

Driver stats were 119 avg. swing speed and 174 ball speed. I ended up going with the Ping G30 LST with hzrdus smoke green RDX
 

this isn’t about ego. I’m not playing to make money or anything. This is me just trying to understand numbers and what’s causing me to leave performance on the table. 

 

 

Edited February 5, 2023 by cocolamb22

[tthomasgolfer605]

1 hour ago, cocolamb22 said:

For reference, here’s another trackman (different facility) session I did 8 months prior. This is with my current 5 iron. Smash is better and swing speed is the same. 

Here's Xander's 6 iron numbers. Steeper angle of attack + lower launch angle=30 yards more. Sounds like you're adding loft at impact. Do you have a swing video with your irons? 

[chisag]

37 minutes ago, cocolamb22 said:

this isn’t about ego. I’m not playing to make money or anything. This is me just trying to understand numbers and what’s causing me to leave performance on the table. 

 

 

... I think more than a few good players are "gamers". One of the problems I have with fittings is when playing you hit that 6 iron once from the fairway and in your case from about 200yds. There is a singular focus on hitting it the right distance and direction because you know you don't get a second chance. Standing in one spot and taking the same swing over and over again and most importantly knowing it doesn't count because you are just gonna hit another ball can be radically different for a gamer. I am never the same at a fitting or on the range as I am on the course when playing. Something to consider. 

[Jayjay_theweim_guy]

1 hour ago, tthomasgolfer605 said:

Yeah. I think something was wrong with the sim. Clubhead speed should be around 94-95 mph hence the low smash factor.

Agree that something seems whack here.

 

Chiming in to point out that, if the OP does have a "high, spinny flight" with their irons, yet still gets 195-200 from a 6-iron at Bandon, and picking on a 18' launch from the OP's cited stats from that session, 137 ball speed and 6,000 RPM gets him there with Flightscope's trajectory thingy.  Which seems to indicate a CHS in the 100 MPH range.

 

(I have a high, spinny flight too.  And get nowhere near 2 bills of carry at sea level  with my 6-iron around 93 MPH or so.)

 

If I were OP, I'd hold off on serious reflection about fit and strike until I could get an outdoor fitting and stats.  Something's weird here, with how strike is measured, clubhead stats, spin, speed...something's wonky here.

[Jayjay_theweim_guy]

28 minutes ago, tthomasgolfer605 said:

Here's Xander's 6 iron numbers. Steeper angle of attack + lower launch angle=30 yards more. Sounds like you're adding loft at impact. Do you have a swing video with your irons? 

/cdn-cgi/mirage/2cc99c4f10f5c2408dc22979957aa827b5d14917b312d00036330b68b307521a/1280/cdn-cgi/mirage/2cc99c4f10f5c2408dc22979957aa827b5d14917b312d00036330b68b307521a/1280/https://wrxcdn.golfwrx.com/uploads/monthly_2023_02/Xander-Schauffele-wins-the-2017-The-Greenbrier-Classic.png.d1cda0d980ebb5cd59fa025abfecfe8a.png

(I'm not trying to pick on you; I just find your posts interesting, as I slog through this friggin' CLE...)

 

Xander and his people are cool with 4900 RPM and 16 yds of additional post carry distance....on a 6-iron?!  I've no idea what his descent angle is, but that 'seems' to me to be inadequate to hold a lot of PGA Tour stop greens.  I'm just perplexed, is all.

[Jayjay_theweim_guy]

2 hours ago, Cwebb said:

 

Key point here:  You're a picker/sweeper

 

Design detail:  Iron heads that have been independently measured that have a high Actual Vertical COG (sweet-spot height), will never produce optimal energy transfer for your player type.

 

Why:  Because your lower impact pattern on the face as a picker, will rarely get the COG underneath the center of the ball,... which is required for pure contact and full energy transfer.

Interesting!  I had no idea.

 

As a 'picker' (had to train myself to take any divot at all, usually just have brushed ground under the ball---even with wedges!), does that mean I should be looking towards irons with lower VCoGs on the Maltby charts? 

 

I've played Pings for awhile---"Free", is a quality all its own---but are you saying I might've been better served with an irons line not so committed to high VCoGs?  

 

If so, thank you!  This never would've occurred to me.

[tthomasgolfer605]

9 minutes ago, Jayjay_theweim_guy said:

(I'm not trying to pick on you; I just find your posts interesting, as I slog through this friggin' CLE...)

 

Xander and his people are cool with 4900 RPM and 16 yds of additional post carry distance....on a 6-iron?!  I've no idea what his descent angle is, but that 'seems' to me to be inadequate to hold a lot of PGA Tour stop greens.  I'm just perplexed, is all.

Could have been a 4 or 5 iron. 

 

9 minutes ago, Jayjay_theweim_guy said:

(I'm not trying to pick on you; I just find your posts interesting, as I slog through this friggin' CLE...)

 

Xander and his people are cool with 4900 RPM and 16 yds of additional post carry distance....on a 6-iron?!  I've no idea what his descent angle is, but that 'seems' to me to be inadequate to hold a lot of PGA Tour stop greens.  I'm just perplexed, is all.

That came from https://blog.trackmangolf.com/xander-schauffele-wins-2017-greenbrier-classic/

I think trackman adds way too much roll to the total distance.

[tthomasgolfer605]

27 minutes ago, Jayjay_theweim_guy said:

Agree that something seems whack here.

 

Chiming in to point out that, if the OP does have a "high, spinny flight" with their irons, yet still gets 195-200 from a 6-iron at Bandon, and picking on a 18' launch from the OP's cited stats from that session, 137 ball speed and 6,000 RPM gets him there with Flightscope's trajectory thingy.  Which seems to indicate a CHS in the 100 MPH range.

 

(I have a high, spinny flight too.  And get nowhere near 2 bills of carry at sea level  with my 6-iron around 93 MPH or so.)

 

If I were OP, I'd hold off on serious reflection about fit and strike until I could get an outdoor fitting and stats.  Something's weird here, with how strike is measured, clubhead stats, spin, speed...something's wonky here.

Do you hit your 6 iron about 185? 

[Jayjay_theweim_guy]

7 minutes ago, tthomasgolfer605 said:

Do you hit your 6 iron about 185? 

A bit under it, sometimes.  I'd say originally 175, moving to 185 as my broomforce work gets a better sequence, lower launch, and less spin.

 

Used to be 120-125 ball speed, 20' launch, 6600-7000 spin.  (29.5', 37.5" 6-iron).

 

Really wanting that number up towards 130, 17' and 5750-6000 spin.

Edited February 5, 2023 by Jayjay_theweim_guy

[tthomasgolfer605]

6 minutes ago, Jayjay_theweim_guy said:

A bit under it, sometimes.  I'd say originally 175, moving to 185 as my broomforce work gets a better sequence, lower launch, and less spin.

 

Used to be 120-125 ball speed, 20' launch, 6600-7000 spin.  (29.5', 37.5" 6-iron).

 

Really wanting that number up towards 130, 17' and 5750-6000 spin.

Mizuno irons?

 

[Krt22]

35 minutes ago, Jayjay_theweim_guy said:

A bit under it, sometimes.  I'd say originally 175, moving to 185 as my broomforce work gets a better sequence, lower launch, and less spin.

 

Used to be 120-125 ball speed, 20' launch, 6600-7000 spin.  (29.5', 37.5" 6-iron).

 

Really wanting that number up towards 130, 17' and 5750-6000 spin.

Should get pretty close to that delivering less loft at impact.

 

2 hours ago, cocolamb22 said:

For reference, here’s another trackman (different facility) session I did 8 months prior. This is with my current 5 iron. Smash is better and swing speed is the same. 

Based on this I think you just had a bad day. The fiberbuilt mats can be punishing on fat shots (as they should be), but after hitting on them awhile you can start to tell if it was even a hair fat. If you have not been playing recently, quite possibly just have not fully found your low point yet

[Cwebb]

1 hour ago, Jayjay_theweim_guy said:

Interesting!  I had no idea.

 

As a 'picker' (had to train myself to take any divot at all, usually just have brushed ground under the ball---even with wedges!), does that mean I should be looking towards irons with lower VCoGs on the Maltby charts? 

 

I've played Pings for awhile---"Free", is a quality all its own---but are you saying I might've been better served with an irons line not so committed to high VCoGs?  

 

If so, thank you!  This never would've occurred to me.

 

Absolutely you should.  No question about it, in my experience and many others who are aware of this and have tested it.  Playing an iron design with an AVCOG at or above .840" has you at a disadvantage.

 

Just make sure you look at the category they call Actual Vertical COG....not the Basic Vertical

[Cwebb]

3 hours ago, cocolamb22 said:

Is there a place specifically where I can go find this data? That’sa very interesting theory that I’d like to learn more about

 

The measurements are listed here.  Just scroll down and select the brands you're interested in...

https://www.golfworks.com/head-mpf-ratings/

 

Here's some info on the concept from the guy who currently does the measurements...

https://ralphmaltby.com/understanding-the-malby-playability-factor-mpf-for-irons/

[Jayjay_theweim_guy]

3 hours ago, tthomasgolfer605 said:

Mizuno irons?

 

Nope.  i210s, power spec'ed, of all things.  I just flipped like it's 2007, and I'm a sub-prime mortgage broker... 

 

I used to deliver a ridiculous amount of loft to the ball.  Launch angles around 75% of the listed loft of the club, a lot of the time.  It's gotten better, with work.

 

 

[RSLP]

@cocolamb22figure out where the Ping Fitting Van (factory owned) is in metro Phoenix and fly down for a fitting.  +1 with the Ping S line and the Modus 120, seems like a pretty good recipe!  They will hand you a print out, and have your favorite pro/retailer order them up for you.  My guess is they will work with Modus 120 + 125 (maybe some stepping) and optimize your lofts for you on 1-2 club heads.  A very good friend of mine lives there , and validates his Pings every six months like this.  He is also a +.  Team Ping and Team Nippon is flat out bragging rights!