Uneven Tee Box

[rogolf]

30 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

I actually saw this happen in a USga mid am qualifier.  
 

 

a par 5 was to use the rear tee box of an opposing par 4 as a pushed back tee. When my group got to that hole immediately noticed that one marker was on the box the hard card specified. And the other was on the rear box of the actual hole.  The normal rear box.  I called the pro shop to get an official and refused to play until one came.  And I did so because the group in front of us had played from the incorrect box according to the hard card.  When the official got  there he was not pleased that I called him out.  Not really ugly. Just short.  And stated “ the hard card says where to play from “.  To which I replied “ and the rectangle made by these two markers is 40 yards wide.   So I can tee it up here “. Pointing to where I was standing in between the two boxes online with the two markers ( one on each box ). This was a joint tee box. Shaped like a square cornered S . One hole went one way,  The other the other way.  So technically to me one large teeing area for two hole. - He says “ no “ loudly as he moves the incorrect marker over to the correct box.  .  The next part got muddy. 
 

I then said. “ well. The group in front of us did.  And they were inside the rectangle created by those two markers. I saw the last player pick up his tee “ .  This ticked him off.  I don’t know exactly why I shouldn’t have called. But I let it be.  
 

They were DQed I believe. Because the hard card designated which teeing area the tee markers would be on.  

Doesn't sound like a very helpful referee/official!  Some forget that we're out there to help the players play by the Rules!

[bladehunter]

3 hours ago, rogolf said:

Doesn't sound like a very helpful referee/official!  Some forget that we're out there to help the players play by the Rules!

In hindsight I think his anger was more for the person who didn’t set the markers correctly or whomever moved them ( don’t know which it was we were the 5th it or 6th group out that day ) That part I would have agreed with him on. But he also seemed to think that I should have known to play from the box on the hard card.  I did suspect that this was the correct place. But.  I don’t pretend to know for sure.  So I asked.  I think initially he may have also not understood that I knew what the hard card said. I think he thought I had disregarded it and was asking a dumb question.  

[Mr. Bean]

59 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

In hindsight I think his anger was more for the person who didn’t set the markers correctly or whomever moved them ( don’t know which it was we were the 5th it or 6th group out that day ) That part I would have agreed with him on. But he also seemed to think that I should have known to play from the box on the hard card.  I did suspect that this was the correct place. But.  I don’t pretend to know for sure.  So I asked.  I think initially he may have also not understood that I knew what the hard card said. I think he thought I had disregarded it and was asking a dumb question.  

 

Rule 6.2b(4):

• If a player finds one or both tee-markers missing, the player should seek help from the Committee. But if the Committee is not available in a reasonable time, the player should use their reasonable judgment (Rule 1.3b(2)) to estimate the location of the teeing area.  

Maybe that guy thought you bothered him for nothing but it seems you were acting within this Rule. Hard Card told you which teeing ground was to be used but you wanted to use the primary option and you had every right to do so.

[rogolf]

I don't understand the use of "hard card" in these posts.  A "hard card" is usually known as the standard Local Rules that are put in place by a golf association for all of its competitions (think USGA, R&A, Metropolitan Golf Association), and would never include tee placements for a specific competition.

Maybe it was meant to refer to the Notice to Players (NTP)?

I know, pedantic, but terminology is important!

[Mr. Bean]

34 minutes ago, rogolf said:

I don't understand the use of "hard card" in these posts.  A "hard card" is usually known as the standard Local Rules that are put in place by a golf association for all of its competitions (think USGA, R&A, Metropolitan Golf Association), and would never include tee placements for a specific competition.

Maybe it was meant to refer to the Notice to Players (NTP)?

I know, pedantic, but terminology is important!

 

Yes, pedantic, but you are right. Around here that info would be in the Conditions of Competition, not in the HC.

[bladehunter]

46 minutes ago, rogolf said:

I don't understand the use of "hard card" in these posts.  A "hard card" is usually known as the standard Local Rules that are put in place by a golf association for all of its competitions (think USGA, R&A, Metropolitan Golf Association), and would never include tee placements for a specific competition.

Maybe it was meant to refer to the Notice to Players (NTP)?

I know, pedantic, but terminology is important!

I maybe misusing the term.  In the card they handed us the morning of that stated the local rules.  Or rules for the day .  Another was a internal OB section of some kind of native grass that wasn’t to be stepped in.  It really wasn’t in play. But I guess a really wild shot could go there.  

[rogolf]

9 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

I maybe misusing the term.  In the card they handed us the morning of that stated the local rules.  Or rules for the day .  Another was a internal OB section of some kind of native grass that wasn’t to be stepped in.  It really wasn’t in play. But I guess a really wild shot could go there.  

No issue.  As I said, I was being a bit pedantic, and trying to be educational as well!

Play hard!

[antip]

On 5/7/2023 at 9:57 PM, kkennedy said:

If you get to the box and the tee markers are unequal, are you required to tee off from behind the one that is furthest back?

Applying the KISS formula...

 

Go to the definition for Teeing Area - it has all you need....

 

"...The Teeing Area is a rectangle that is two club-lengths deep where the front edge is defined by the line between the two forward-most points of two tee-markers set by the Committee, and the side edges are defined by the lines back from the outside points of the tee-markers."

 

Yep, if the tee-markers are not perfectly aligned to the line of the hole, then that rectangle won't be so aligned either. But start the hole from within that rectangle and there are no issues.

 

 

Edited May 16, 2023 by antip
typo

[5 O'Clock Charlie]

On 5/7/2023 at 12:28 PM, Colin L said:

 

 

 

How is that top ball in the teeing ground if the markers are skewed?

[Naptime]

10 minutes ago, 5 O'Clock Charlie said:

 

How is that top ball in the teeing ground if the markers are skewed?

 

If they are skewed as indicated by the skewed rectangle then that top right ball would not be in the teeing ground, I believe. The green check mark refers to its status without the skew.

[Newby]

12 minutes ago, 5 O'Clock Charlie said:

 

How is that top ball in the teeing ground if the markers are skewed?

It is 'leftover' from the original diagram when the teeing are was 'correctly' aligned

[Colin L]

3 hours ago, 5 O'Clock Charlie said:

 

How is that top ball in the teeing ground if the markers are skewed?

As rulefan has explained - they refer to the teeing area as originally illustrated.

 

[Mr. Bean]

31 minutes ago, Colin L said:

As rulefan has explained - they refer to the teeing area as originally illustrated.

 

 

Which one? We are all rulefans 😂

[IndyArcher]

23 minutes ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

Which one? We are all rulefans 😂

 

Well, some of us are more ruffians, but rulefans are important, too! 

[Colin L]

I meant Newby

[Newby]

4 minutes ago, Colin L said:

I meant Newby

Ah! My alter ego. But one of us is correct more often than the other.