How to start over?

[MikeW2]

I am beyond inconsistent with driver and getting worse, it used to be the strongest part of my game but not anymore. For the first time in almost 40 years of playing I saw my swing on video today. It is so different from irons to driver that it’s incomprehensible to me and the driver swing was to be candid, awful…club pulled way behind me before it gets to parallel with the ground, early extension, chicken wing through impact, ridiculously fast tempo, I looked completely unbalanced. I’m baffled that I can shoot some of the scores that I have with what I saw. What’s more disheartening is that I “feel” the same swinging driver as I do when I swing an iron so the feel versus real is way off. I cannot continue doing what I’m doing and feel like I need to start over from like a remedial level. My question is this, how do I completely start over? Online videos is my only real option right now, is there anyone I should look into that teaches how to hit a driver as if someone were taking their very first lesson? Any help, guidance, recommendations is much appreciated!

[hanginnwangin]

4 hours ago, MikeW2 said:

I am beyond inconsistent with driver and getting worse, it used to be the strongest part of my game but not anymore. For the first time in almost 40 years of playing I saw my swing on video today. It is so different from irons to driver that it’s incomprehensible to me and the driver swing was to be candid, awful…club pulled way behind me before it gets to parallel with the ground, early extension, chicken wing through impact, ridiculously fast tempo, I looked completely unbalanced. I’m baffled that I can shoot some of the scores that I have with what I saw. What’s more disheartening is that I “feel” the same swinging driver as I do when I swing an iron so the feel versus real is way off. I cannot continue doing what I’m doing and feel like I need to start over from like a remedial level. My question is this, how do I completely start over? Online videos is my only real option right now, is there anyone I should look into that teaches how to hit a driver as if someone were taking their very first lesson? Any help, guidance, recommendations is much appreciated!

It's always humbling to see your video on swing for the first time, but that's part of the realization it takes to improve your swing and make better movements. I don't know about your driver questions but if you're just trying to improve at golf and learn about you, but if you are looking for a good coach who does facetime/virtual lessons and also swing analysis on skillest, look into Colin McCarthy. You can find all of his details on his instagram. Good luck. 

[Zitlow]

How long is your driver? It might be too long for you.

 

The last driver I bought was 45.75 inches, which was too long for me. I cut an inch off of it and replaced the 5 gram back weight with an 18 gram weight and was good to go. 

[me05501]

4 hours ago, MikeW2 said:

I am beyond inconsistent with driver and getting worse, it used to be the strongest part of my game but not anymore. For the first time in almost 40 years of playing I saw my swing on video today. It is so different from irons to driver that it’s incomprehensible to me and the driver swing was to be candid, awful…club pulled way behind me before it gets to parallel with the ground, early extension, chicken wing through impact, ridiculously fast tempo, I looked completely unbalanced. I’m baffled that I can shoot some of the scores that I have with what I saw. What’s more disheartening is that I “feel” the same swinging driver as I do when I swing an iron so the feel versus real is way off. I cannot continue doing what I’m doing and feel like I need to start over from like a remedial level. My question is this, how do I completely start over? Online videos is my only real option right now, is there anyone I should look into that teaches how to hit a driver as if someone were taking their very first lesson? Any help, guidance, recommendations is much appreciated!

 

 

What is your intent when you set up to driver and make your swing?

 

Do you have a picture in your mind of how you want the ball to launch, to fly, to roll out? Are you swinging for maximum distance, maximum accuracy or something between those two? 

 

The biggest difference between driver and every other club is that we like to think our driver has no limit on distance. We swing a nine iron to hit to a specific number but we swing the driver to go as far as possible. For most people that means swinging harder, faster, less in balance and bordering on out of control. 

 

Maybe try hitting your driver to a specific distance and see what happens. Subtract 50 yards off your all-time longest drive and try to hit your driver to that specific number. You will probably find that it goes well beyond your target distance. 

 

Also make sure you're measuring your contact location during practice sessions. Don't try to add speed until you know you're striking the ball near the center of the face. 

[tatertot]

Pickleball?

[dodgyman]

If you can afford it and find someone you like, getting a consistent set of lessons with intent on re-building is probably your best bet. If you are intent to re-build, you will need someone to help you prioritize the one/two things to work on at a time (you're not going to work on everything all at once) and then you need someone to ensure you're not going back to old tendencies.

 

I'm sure there are other ways, but I would guess this approach has the highest chance of success.

[NoTalentLefty]

39 minutes ago, Zitlow said:

How long is your driver? It might be too long for you.

 

The last driver I bought was 45.75 inches, which was too long for me. I cut an inch off of it and replaced the 5 gram back weight with an 18 gram weight and was good to go. 

You know this is something to look at. My swing gets out of sorts with the longer driver shafts as well. I too cut mine down and added more weight to my club like zitlow.

[MikeW2]

53 minutes ago, Zitlow said:

How long is your driver? It might be too long for you.

 

The last driver I bought was 45.75 inches, which was too long for me. I cut an inch off of it and replaced the 5 gram back weight with an 18 gram weight and was good to go. 

Current driver is 44” and plays to D0, anything longer than that and my contact is all over the face. Despite my issues my contact is actually pretty consistently in the middle of the face.

[Zitlow]

12 minutes ago, MikeW2 said:

Current driver is 44” and plays to D0, anything longer than that and my contact is all over the face. Despite my issues my contact is actually pretty consistently in the middle of the face.

That's good. Another suggestion is to get the tension out of your shoulders, arms and hands. They are conduits for the energy to flow through. You need just enough structure in your hands and arms to support the weight of the club. 

 

You want quickness in the golf swing, it's hard to be quick with tight muscles. Watch his right arm flopping around after the throw.

 

Mariano Rivera

 

 

 

 

[phizzy30]

Just now, MikeW2 said:

Current driver is 44” and plays to D0, anything longer than that and my contact is all over the face. Despite my issues my contact is actually pretty consistently in the middle of the face.

If you make contact with the sweet spot often, then what exactly is your issue? 

[MikeW2]

45 minutes ago, me05501 said:

 

 

What is your intent when you set up to driver and make your swing?

 

Do you have a picture in your mind of how you want the ball to launch, to fly, to roll out? Are you swinging for maximum distance, maximum accuracy or something between those two? 

 

The biggest difference between driver and every other club is that we like to think our driver has no limit on distance. We swing a nine iron to hit to a specific number but we swing the driver to go as far as possible. For most people that means swinging harder, faster, less in balance and bordering on out of control. 

 

Maybe try hitting your driver to a specific distance and see what happens. Subtract 50 yards off your all-time longest drive and try to hit your driver to that specific number. You will probably find that it goes well beyond your target distance. 

 

Also make sure you're measuring your contact location during practice sessions. Don't try to add speed until you know you're striking the ball near the center of the face. 

I’m 100% guilty of trying to get as much distance as possible. I used to be able to easily get 275-280 and on good days will still get 240 but those are few and far between. Reality is I’m a lot closer to 200 if I’m lucky which is the same distance I get from my 5 wood. The steady loss of distance over the years kills me mentally, I just don’t get it. I step into the shot the same as I always have, I picture a tree top height trajectory with a tight 5 yard draw which I’ve played since the beginning of me playing and for a long time that was automatic. Sometimes I get it and it’s beautiful and if my miss was just one kind I could live with it and learn to play around it. However, I hit pushes pulls hooks slices and ground balls all while usually hitting the center of the club face. When I pull driver my mind goes to a bad place. But I’m stubborn and keep pulling it, I played three sports at the college level and was asked to play a fourth, I used to be an athlete that could overcome this crap. It’s not even the yips because I don’t freeze, I accelerate and have no idea how to stop myself.

[MikeW2]

3 hours ago, phizzy30 said:

If you make contact with the sweet spot often, then what exactly is your issue? 

Direction. I hit the ball all over God’s green earth and never know which direction a particular swing is going to produce. Only happens with driver though.

[phizzy30]

Just now, MikeW2 said:

Direction. I hit the ball all over God’s green earth and never know which direction a particular swing is going to produce. Only happens with driver though.

I know the popular opinion here is that swing changes are priority, but I will play devil's advocate and say that you may want to look into getting another shaft.  Different shafts affect delivery into the ball and is not only important for consistent ball striking, but also for dispersion. 

[MikeW2]

24 minutes ago, phizzy30 said:

I know the popular opinion here is that swing changes are priority, but I will play devil's advocate and say that you may want to look into getting another shaft.  Different shafts affect delivery into the ball and is not only important for consistent ball striking, but also for dispersion. 

I’m open to anything and that thought has crossed my mind. The driver I’m using I just picked up and is an exact copy of a driver I was fit into years ago…head shaft flex length swing weight. I grabbed it because my previous driver was having these same issues and despite being fit for that one I thought going back to one I’d experienced success with previously could help. While I’m still having issues I will say that the good shots with the current driver are better than my previous driver.

[MikeW2]

On 6/20/2023 at 5:04 PM, phizzy30 said:

I know the popular opinion here is that swing changes are priority, but I will play devil's advocate and say that you may want to look into getting another shaft.  Different shafts affect delivery into the ball and is not only important for consistent ball striking, but also for dispersion. 

A little more than a week ago was rock bottom for me, 100 yard pushes and 100 yard pulls in same 9 holes. Put driver away and when I got home was scrolling through instructions forum. I read a stack and tilt thread, watched a ton of videos, read the book and thought why not? It has helped me tremendously and I am hitting my driver with a consistent draw just not very far, 200 carry 210 total. This was using a G30 with a tour 75 stiff shaft 44” long. So my brain says you seem to have this figured out directionally maybe a new driver will get me a little more distance. Today I went for a fitting and hit G430, G425, Aerojet, two different paradigms, a big Bertha, a great big Bertha, an XXIO, a Titleist, and a Stealth with different shafts in different settings and was all over the place. Nothing was working for me and the fitter asked me what my thoughts were.  One, I use leather grips and the rubber feels slippery and skinny to me and two, nothing has produced what I’m hoping to feel when I swing driver to which he asked what I was hoping to feel. I told him that I missed the feeling of a solid hit like I had felt years ago with my original Big Bertha Warbird. There happened to be a 11* one in a giant staff bag with a Memphis 10 steel shaft in a staff bag nearby with used clubs for sale. I’m almost two hours in and exhausted. The straightest one I’d tested was the Titleist at an average of 22 yards off line in BOTH directions, the longest was the Stealth with an average of 226 carry and roll. I hit 10 balls with this 30 something year old club with a steel shaft almost dead straight every time, averaged 5 yards off line and carried it on average 230 with a average roll out to 243. Guy said he’s never seen anything like it and that lighter should mean easier. So for $9.65 I might have found my “new” driver. I guess my delivery responds to steel.

Edited July 15, 2023 by MikeW2
Typo

[naval2006]

On 6/20/2023 at 9:00 AM, MikeW2 said:

ridiculously fast tempo, I looked completely unbalanced.

If your iron ballstriking is fine then that’s the biggest issue with many players. They grab the driver and they turn into a golf Hulk. Mechanics aside, when you can go through fast and hold your finish in balance you start to get a game with driver. JT, Rory, Sander, Rose et. al.  
 

There’s a mental barrier to break: swing smooth and fast for speed and distance. 

[MikeW2]

1 hour ago, naval2006 said:

If your iron ballstriking is fine then that’s the biggest issue with many players. They grab the driver and they turn into a golf Hulk. Mechanics aside, when you can go through fast and hold your finish in balance you start to get a game with driver. JT, Rory, Sander, Rose et. al.  
 

There’s a mental barrier to break: swing smooth and fast for speed and distance. 

I agree with this 100% and know it is part of my problem. I’m working on it but it’s not easy.

[virtuoso]

Did the fitter say anything at all about your path angle and attack angle?

[MikeW2]

Path was between 2-4 degrees in to out and my AoA was something he said I need to work on as it ranged from 6 to 9 degrees up. Weirdly with the 43” steel shaft it was either 1 or 2 degrees up with each swing. Does shaft length affect that? I really don’t know. Those clubs that were 46” or longer felt like I was trying to swing a hockey stick.

[virtuoso]

Hmm, can you take a decent divot with an iron?

[phizzy30]

2 hours ago, MikeW2 said:

Path was between 2-4 degrees in to out and my AoA was something he said I need to work on as it ranged from 6 to 9 degrees up. Weirdly with the 43” steel shaft it was either 1 or 2 degrees up with each swing. Does shaft length affect that? I really don’t know. Those clubs that were 46” or longer felt like I was trying to swing a hockey stick.

That's my swing path as well and I used to be +5 AoA.  I brought it down to 1-3* and have been way more consistent.  I would suggest having a more level down swing where your left shoulder isn't tilting up as much. 

[virtuoso]

There are different ways to produce super positive AOA, some worse than others.

[MikeW2]

47 minutes ago, phizzy30 said:

That's my swing path as well and I used to be +5 AoA.  I brought it down to 1-3* and have been way more consistent.  I would suggest having a more level down swing where your left shoulder isn't tilting up as much. 

That is verbatim what the fitter suggested.

[MikeW2]

57 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

Hmm, can you take a decent divot with an iron?

Yes, I make nice little bacon thin strips with my irons. I’m pretty sure it’s a mental block with me because I don’t look like the same golfer when I pull driver. I’m in the process of trying the Stack and Tilt method as it makes sense in my head. Only a little over a week in and I’m pretty happy with the progress I’ve seen. The impact sensation with my irons I’m getting I definitely feel more compression and I’ve picked up about 5-7 extra yards with each. I also had a really good part of my practice session tonight with the driver. I feel more balanced and in control and the consistent flight and carry I was getting tonight tells me I’m moving in the right direction.

[virtuoso]

46 minutes ago, MikeW2 said:

Yes, I make nice little bacon thin strips with my irons. I’m pretty sure it’s a mental block with me because I don’t look like the same golfer when I pull driver. I’m in the process of trying the Stack and Tilt method as it makes sense in my head. Only a little over a week in and I’m pretty happy with the progress I’ve seen. The impact sensation with my irons I’m getting I definitely feel more compression and I’ve picked up about 5-7 extra yards with each. I also had a really good part of my practice session tonight with the driver. I feel more balanced and in control and the consistent flight and carry I was getting tonight tells me I’m moving in the right direction.

Sounds like you found a good driver and are making progress, keep truckin.