That 30-40 yard pitch…

[PracticeSwinger]

Looking for any tips from guys with great short game, I’m particularly interested in the 30-40 yards range. Not those bump and runs and/or close to the green chips/pitches, but more of those medium range around the green shots.

 

I know it’s a low priority category when it comes to other aspects of practice and score improvements because they’re infrequent shots and part of those up and down numbers are related to the upcoming putt. Still, when looking at stats : Tour pros, pluses and scratch guys proximity from that range is way better than mine (10-15 ft range compared to 20 ft – with 29% and 27% u&d numbers from pros and scratch respectively compared to my 20%)

 

How do you approach these shots – lie assessment, green complex, proximity target, spin and trajectory control, to go club, etc? Or is it more related to the previous approach shot and to make sure you’re not short-sided (even though a lot of those shots are coming from ‘going for it’ on Par5s)… anything to help a Wrx fellow…  

[SNIPERBBB]

I would have to say keeping your speed up on this shot is imperative. When I see fellow players, and occasionally myself, when I mess this shot up is because I got lazy and didn't put any speed into the swing. 

[iutodd]

I have a pretty solid short game - I don't know if this will help or not but here are some of my thoughts:

 

Everything around the green starts with contact for me. I have a 54/10 and a 60/6 that are my "go to clubs" in the 30-40 yard range.  I use one or the other based on the lie.  For very tight lies, or wet ground, I club down and use my 54.  I can deliver the club with the bounce that way and make more consistent contact.  Solid not wet fairway lies I'll use my 60.  In the rough if the ball is sitting "up" I'll again use my 54 and practice just kind of brushing the rough and not making ground contact.  I don't want to slip the 60 under the ball or hit it really high on the face.  If I have to go down and get it in the rough I use my 60.  Long bunker shots I use the 54 or sometimes my 50.  Also you have to pay attention to which way the grass was mowed in the rough.  Grass growing into you will kill all your speed/mess with the clubface so you have to focus on holding the club face angle and accelerating through the ball.

 

If I've got the ball in the fairway and I have an open look to the pin then I'm trying to get it inside 10 feet.  Anything over a bunker or tucked or short sided or if I'm in the rough I'm honestly just trying to get it on the green.  I'll take a 30-40 foot putt over a short sided 12 yard chip from the rough any day.

[getitdaily]

I have started working on the clock method for partial wedge shots. I see much better results trying to keep downswing force the same and just adjusting backswing length.  Google cam Mccormick and Celine boutier and watch the video on partial wedge shots. Moving from feel based to cl9ck based has been paying off. It doesn't eliminate feel but it just gives a technical frame to feel.

 

My other key is keeping a focus on landing spot...not pin.

[PracticeSwinger]

21 minutes ago, SNIPERBBB said:

I would have to say keeping your speed up on this shot is imperative. When I see fellow players, and occasionally myself, when I mess this shot up is because I got lazy and didn't put any speed into the swing. 

Good call right off the bat, on speed. Guessing that more than a few people struggle with ‘delivering’ enough speed from that short of a distance even with a high lofted club and/or rough lie

[PracticeSwinger]

19 minutes ago, iutodd said:

I have a pretty solid short game - I don't know if this will help or not but here are some of my thoughts:

 

Everything around the green starts with contact for me. I have a 54/10 and a 60/6 that are my "go to clubs" in the 30-40 yard range.  I use one or the other based on the lie.  For very tight lies, or wet ground, I club down and use my 54.  I can deliver the club with the bounce that way and make more consistent contact.  Solid not wet fairway lies I'll use my 60.  In the rough if the ball is sitting "up" I'll again use my 54 and practice just kind of brushing the rough and not making ground contact.  I don't want to slip the 60 under the ball or hit it really high on the face.  If I have to go down and get it in the rough I use my 60.  Long bunker shots I use the 54 or sometimes my 50.  Also you have to pay attention to which way the grass was mowed in the rough.  Grass growing into you will kill all your speed/mess with the clubface so you have to focus on holding the club face angle and accelerating through the ball.

 

If I've got the ball in the fairway and I have an open look to the pin then I'm trying to get it inside 10 feet.  Anything over a bunker or tucked or short sided or if I'm in the rough I'm honestly just trying to get it on the green.  I'll take a 30-40 foot putt over a short sided 12 yard chip from the rough any day.

Solid post all around on club selection from different lies and pin location - especially on how the rough was mowed, I’ll have to keep an eye for this, might be into something here.

[PracticeSwinger]

7 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

I have started working on the clock method for partial wedge shots. I see much better results trying to keep downswing force the same and just adjusting backswing length.  Google cam Mccormick and Celine boutier and watch the video on partial wedge shots. Moving from feel based to cl9ck based has been paying off. It doesn't eliminate feel but it just gives a technical frame to feel.

 

My other key is keeping a focus on landing spot...not pin.

I’ve seen that video you posted before, 100% from A to Z. Might get lazy at times also in picking a good landing spot from the combo of lie, club, distance - good info.

[getitdaily]

3 minutes ago, Varry_Hardon said:

I’ve seen that video you posted before, 100% from A to Z. Might get lazy at times also in picking a good landing spot from the combo of lie, club, distance - good info.

One other thing...don't get lazy with setup. It's easy to dismiss setup on the shorter shots but it makes a big difference. Know your setup keys and then adhere to them.

 

I tend to get taller and too open for short shots. Taller throws off contact, too open leads to pulls. 

 

Setup can be the difference in 10 feet vs 20+

[phizzy30]

If the opportunity arises, I like to survey the green before setting up to the ball that way I can see the contours and undulations.  I then look at the spot I need to land on and focus on the target.  I walk back to the ball and pull the trigger.  I think most ams don't assess their shots enough around the green and just aim wherever and hit their chips/pitches at the fat part of the green or directly at the pin which is a huge error on their part. 

[Haroputt]

Low hands at set up.  Skimming action through the ball   Okay if I hit turf prior to the ball cause it’s all bounce 

think Steve Sticker   I like to cut action 

hop near the pin bounce once or twice and checks up sometimes hits the pin 

 

 

[bcflyguy1]

Use the highest lofted wedge you have confidence hitting these shots with. Then determine what backswing length produces the distances you're trying to achieve with that wedge.

[umamimami]

If your face with a lot of these, especially in the high 30s to 40+ range, consider a different approach on the hole. 
 

My short game got a bit better once I Iearned how to hit a 70 yard pitch, a high 60 yarder, and a medium spinny one that I can hit 75-120 yards. My short game really improved once I realized that I would be a fool to not set myself up for those shots. 
I get the heroic feeling of trying to get to the green on a short 5, or on a 4 after a weak tee-shot. But since you’re here on the internet asking for advice I think you’re trying to improve. 
 

Going for it when you’re out of position is a great way to stay out of position. Know the shots you can make and try to get yourself into places you can make them.

 

Consider these two scenarios on a 330 yard par-4. 
 

A) you pull driver because you think you can get it “up there” you end up 45 yards out in the fairway. Your second shot ends up being 20 ft out as you described.

 

B) you go for a long iron or wood or hybrid, all of which you can proficiently hit 210-260. Your second shot is now a spin-able, controllable wedge shot. You can stick those to 10. You might get it to under 10 feet! If you hit a mediocre one then you’re back at the expected result of option A.

 

As an aside: For 30-40 yarders because of a miss. Specifically a miss into the rough.
 

The rough is the tough and if it’s a 30 yarder because you missed the green this is a different story and one that’ll involve going out onto your course and dropping balls in rough and figuring out what works. This is what pros do during practice rounds.

 

Overall: if you’re frequently finding yourself at uncomfortable distances in the fairway - you gotta rewind to your prior shot and plan the approach better. 
 

 

I heard a tale about a golf pro who was asked “What do you do when you’re faced with a 50 yard pitch?” 
 

the reply: “Fire my caddie.”

[PracticeSwinger]

48 minutes ago, phizzy30 said:

If the opportunity arises, I like to survey the green before setting up to the ball that way I can see the contours and undulations.  I then look at the spot I need to land on and focus on the target.  I walk back to the ball and pull the trigger.  I think most ams don't assess their shots enough around the green and just aim wherever and hit their chips/pitches at the fat part of the green or directly at the pin which is a huge error on their part. 

Correct, Ams are usually in love with the pin and the 'straighest' way to get there while better players will vizualise the upcoming shot and how to execute it

[PracticeSwinger]

49 minutes ago, Haroputt said:

Low hands at set up.  Skimming action through the ball   Okay if I hit turf prior to the ball cause it’s all bounce 

think Steve Sticker   I like to cut action 

hop near the pin bounce once or twice and checks up sometimes hits the pin 

 

 

Interesting, I'll revisit that, even think Monte has a subsection on this in his complete wedge series.

[PracticeSwinger]

53 minutes ago, bcflyguy1 said:

Use the highest lofted wedge you have confidence hitting these shots with. Then determine what backswing length produces the distances you're trying to achieve with that wedge.

And your answer to the highest lofted wedge you have confidence in is lie, green complex dependent or you got a go-to club and let it perform it's magic?

[bcflyguy1]

@Varry_Hardon Higher loft means steeper descent angle and therefore the ball will come to rest closer to where it initially lands. This affords you greater freedom to be aggressive in trying to minimize proximity to the hole for your putt and minimizes your vulnerability to "rub of the green" funky bounces and the like.

That being said, if you're higher lofted wedges give you the willies compared to a PW or GW then you've got to go with what you can execute with confidence and consistency.

Edited July 5, 2023 by bcflyguy1

[Pepperturbo]

3 hours ago, Varry_Hardon said:

How do you approach these shots – lie assessment, green complex, proximity target, spin and trajectory control, to go club, etc? Or is it more related to the previous approach shot and to make sure you’re not short-sided (even though a lot of those shots are coming from ‘going for it’ on Par5s)… anything to help a Wrx fellow…  

My short game is “+”, and 4 index.

 

I am not as long as I used to be, so face those yardages when playing longer tees like yesterday.  Had maybe 10 similar shots where 2nd shot left me 20-30yds to green front.  My ball striking was off, so depended heavily on my short game all day.  First, as if putting, I look at the green surface, undulations, speed and where the pins positioned, then I determine what I want the ball to do, then pick the club.

 

I may use LW/SW and go at the pin trusting what my ball will do; hit, bounce, and stick.  Other times, like yesterday, long Par 3 into 2 club wind, pin on back 4' elevated small area with deep rough off back; from 15yds short of green, I chose PW to pin high 4' to save par.  Long Par 3, uphill 1-2clubs, 189yds, hit 4i, 10yrds short of green, and still uphill, used 52' to 3' tap in, saved par.  Other times, may use a 9i, trusting spin, and low trajectory shot, ball hits, bounces once or twice, and runs to the pin.  Carded 78 yesterday. 

Edited July 5, 2023 by Pepperturbo

[RoyalTroon]

Pitching pennies, stomach and buttons. 

[PracticeSwinger]

2 hours ago, Pepperturbo said:

My short game is “+”, and 4 index.

 

I am not as long as I used to be, so face those yardages when playing longer tees like yesterday.  Had maybe 10 similar shots where 2nd shot left me 20-30yds to green front.  My ball striking was off, so depended heavily on my short game all day.  First, as if putting, I look at the green surface, undulations, speed and where the pins positioned, then I determine what I want the ball to do, then pick the club.

 

I may use LW/SW and go at the pin trusting what my ball will do; hit, bounce, and stick.  Other times, like yesterday, long Par 3 into 2 club wind, pin on back 4' elevated small area with deep rough off back; from 15yds short of green, I chose PW to pin high 4' to save par.  Long Par 3, uphill 1-2clubs, 189yds, hit 4i, 10yrds short of green, and still uphill, used 52' to 3' tap in, saved par.  Other times, may use a 9i, trusting spin, and low trajectory shot, ball hits, bounces once or twice, and runs to the pin.  Carded 78 yesterday. 

From what I gather, a great feel / understanding of what to do with different setup: lie, club, spin, trajectory in order to face many type of shots

[Sean124]

4 hours ago, umamimami said:

If your face with a lot of these, especially in the high 30s to 40+ range, consider a different approach on the hole. 
 

My short game got a bit better once I Iearned how to hit a 70 yard pitch, a high 60 yarder, and a medium spinny one that I can hit 75-120 yards. My short game really improved once I realized that I would be a fool to not set myself up for those shots. 
I get the heroic feeling of trying to get to the green on a short 5, or on a 4 after a weak tee-shot. But since you’re here on the internet asking for advice I think you’re trying to improve. 
 

Going for it when you’re out of position is a great way to stay out of position. Know the shots you can make and try to get yourself into places you can make them.

 

Consider these two scenarios on a 330 yard par-4. 
 

A) you pull driver because you think you can get it “up there” you end up 45 yards out in the fairway. Your second shot ends up being 20 ft out as you described.

 

B) you go for a long iron or wood or hybrid, all of which you can proficiently hit 210-260. Your second shot is now a spin-able, controllable wedge shot. You can stick those to 10. You might get it to under 10 feet! If you hit a mediocre one then you’re back at the expected result of option A.

 

As an aside: For 30-40 yarders because of a miss. Specifically a miss into the rough.
 

The rough is the tough and if it’s a 30 yarder because you missed the green this is a different story and one that’ll involve going out onto your course and dropping balls in rough and figuring out what works. This is what pros do during practice rounds.

 

Overall: if you’re frequently finding yourself at uncomfortable distances in the fairway - you gotta rewind to your prior shot and plan the approach better. 
 

 

I heard a tale about a golf pro who was asked “What do you do when you’re faced with a 50 yard pitch?” 
 

the reply: “Fire my caddie.”

You honestly believe you’re better off in the fairway at 70 yards than in the fairway at 40 yards? 
 

Inside 10 feet in your (B) scenario is quite the accomplishment. 
 

Edited July 5, 2023 by Sean124

[TLUBulldogGolf]

Pretty much always play it with a 60 unless I have a ton of green or there is a tier I can't really fly it onto and stop it. Lie assessment is honestly just experience, but a good rule is if you can get club directly on the ball you should be able to spin it if you clip it properly. This applies to fairway and rough as we don't all play perfect fairways, fluffier/longer fairway grass you may not be able to really put a lot of spin. I'm generally looking at a landing spot based on green firmness and the lie I have. I would play it very close to square if I have room, I like to open it a touch to allow for using the bounce. Fluffier lies in the rough I will open it more if I need to stop it with trajectory, usually the ball will be middle for a normal shot and a bit more forward if I'm trying to throw it up in the air. 

[PracticeSwinger]

14 minutes ago, TLUBulldogGolf said:

Pretty much always play it with a 60 unless I have a ton of green or there is a tier I can't really fly it onto and stop it. Lie assessment is honestly just experience, but a good rule is if you can get club directly on the ball you should be able to spin it if you clip it properly. This applies to fairway and rough as we don't all play perfect fairways, fluffier/longer fairway grass you may not be able to really put a lot of spin. I'm generally looking at a landing spot based on green firmness and the lie I have. I would play it very close to square if I have room, I like to open it a touch to allow for using the bounce. Fluffier lies in the rough I will open it more if I need to stop it with trajectory, usually the ball will be middle for a normal shot and a bit more forward if I'm trying to throw it up in the air. 

Great info all around. As you mention that you play most shots with your 60, and like it square, correct guess that you have minimal bounce and only present more when opening it? Finding it tough confidence wise with a tight lie and a wedge with a decent amount of bounce, that leading edge looks way off

[TLUBulldogGolf]

20 minutes ago, Varry_Hardon said:

Great info all around. As you mention that you play most shots with your 60, and like it square, correct guess that you have minimal bounce and only present more when opening it? Finding it tough confidence wise with a tight lie and a wedge with a decent amount of bounce, that leading edge looks way off

I play 60-04 L grind Vokey. Opening slightly for me exposes enough to keep it from digging much if at all. It’s more demanding but allows for more precision once you get confidence with it. I also play typically firmer conditions in Texas.

[umamimami]

2 hours ago, Sean124 said:

You honestly believe you’re better off in the fairway at 70 yards than in the fairway at 40 yards? 
 

Inside 10 feet in your (B) scenario is quite the accomplishment. 
 

check out the number of attempts though. Also Mark Broadies work. It’s a  documented phenomenon that approach proximity decreases steadily to around 60 then flatlines or increases until around 40.

 

it’s that dead space where you don’t have enough room to get good spin on it but you also have to put enough speed on it that it’s not a chip. 
 

Look if you don’t believe me just try what I did for a few rounds: play a second ball back at 80+ (whatever dist you know you have a shot for, which is the point of laying up) every time you land one 40-60 yards out. Then play the 40-60 yarder and compare.

 

 

[Sean124]

58 minutes ago, umamimami said:

check out the number of attempts though. Also Mark Broadies work. It’s a  documented phenomenon that approach proximity decreases steadily to around 60 then flatlines or increases until around 40.

 

it’s that dead space where you don’t have enough room to get good spin on it but you also have to put enough speed on it that it’s not a chip. 
 

Look if you don’t believe me just try what I did for a few rounds: play a second ball back at 80+ (whatever dist you know you have a shot for, which is the point of laying up) every time you land one 40-60 yards out. Then play the 40-60 yarder and compare.

 

 

Sure, I’ll try it tomorrow morning if I can remember. 

[SNIPERBBB]

1 hour ago, umamimami said:

check out the number of attempts though. Also Mark Broadies work. It’s a  documented phenomenon that approach proximity decreases steadily to around 60 then flatlines or increases until around 40.

 

it’s that dead space where you don’t have enough room to get good spin on it but you also have to put enough speed on it that it’s not a chip. 
 

Look if you don’t believe me just try what I did for a few rounds: play a second ball back at 80+ (whatever dist you know you have a shot for, which is the point of laying up) every time you land one 40-60 yards out. Then play the 40-60 yarder and compare.

 

 

This is highly situational. My course today, 40yds from the fairways, maybe 2 holes where the 80yd shot has better up and down chances than the 40.

[CactusGolf]

9 hours ago, SNIPERBBB said:

I would have to say keeping your speed up on this shot is imperative. When I see fellow players, and occasionally myself, when I mess this shot up is because I got lazy and didn't put any speed into the swing. 

This post rings really true to me.  I'm not a great wedge player by any means and my biggest struggle is keeping speed up.  I find myself "dumping" a lot of wedge shots short because of it.  I can feel myself taking it decently back on the backswing and then really slowing down and shortening going back through.

[MPStrat]

 

1. Practice these shots and have repeatable solid technique so that you can land the ball where you want with the spin and trajectory you want. 
 

2. depending on the difficulty of the greens at the courses you play, reading them and picking a landing spot becomes super important. 

 

3. Low ball speed is ideal. You don’t want the ball coming off the face too hot from this distance. It’s super difficult to control distance and roll out. Landing soft and spinny is a nice way to play these shots. 

[PracticeSwinger]

6 hours ago, MPStrat said:

 

1. Practice these shots and have repeatable solid technique so that you can land the ball where you want with the spin and trajectory you want. 
 

2. depending on the difficulty of the greens at the courses you play, reading them and picking a landing spot becomes super important. 

 

3. Low ball speed is ideal. You don’t want the ball coming off the face too hot from this distance. It’s super difficult to control distance and roll out. Landing soft and spinny is a nice way to play these shots. 

Good call. On #3 any specific setup, motions, thoughts to achieve that type of results?

[naval2006]

On these shots there's a forgotten aspect that makes the difference between good short game and mediocre: accelerating through the ball.  This is all subtle, and most people struggling with technique may not have the time to focus on speeding through.  But it's the common element good short gamers share no matter the technique.  And when pitching from mid distance you can always be aggressive through.