Is 36.0 Putts Per Round Holding Me Back?

[jpboi9837]

Feeling better about my swing now, but I think 2 putts/hole is only acceptable if you're hitting 18 GIRs? I'm consistently hitting 4 GIRs right now lol.

 

I had 21 putts for 9 holes yesterday, which felt brutal. 46, but easily could have been a sub-40 round with better putting.

 

Trying to get my handicap index down -- am I right to shift majority focus to putting, or should I keep working to dial in my iron play to increase GIR %?

[Jsteve15]

I think the numbers would say you should focus on getting better with your irons. But I'd also imagine your chipping needs to get better if you are missing so many greens and not getting hardly anything up and down. Best way to reduce the number of putts is to hit those closer right?

[DataGolfer]

You're probably losing a couple of strokes a round with the flat-stick, but whatever's happening before the green is what is holding you back.

 

Watch a scratch or better golfer hit a bucket with their 4-iron and you'll understand.

 

 

[Jsteve15]

35 minutes ago, golfman1023 said:

Watch a scratch or better golfer hit a bucket with their 4-iron and you'll understand.

Don't think approaches from 200+ are the biggest area of opportunity. Probably best to watch how a scratch player practices in the short game area.

[SNIPERBBB]

Would probably look at your iron game first then the short game.  Two putting when you miss the GIR is something you want to avoid. Great putting can overcome some of the short game weakness but even great putting can't save you if you're consistently outside 6ft after your chip/pitch. 

Edited July 27, 2023 by SNIPERBBB

[Chunkitgood]

Every stat I have ever seen and logic both say work on your irons first.  Nothing personal intended, but do you even know what is a proper strike and what is not? 
 

I have played mediocre golf with slightly better golfers for decades, many single digits, and I have seen it over and over: people work hard at getting a poor swing grooved, and refuse to ever change it.  Instead they decide to work on their short game.  And sometimes they get fairly good at it, but always struggle with their irons which keeps them from reaching their potential.

 

If you don’t have good contact, forget your handicap until you do.  Learn to hit your irons right, and the sky is the limit.

 

Just advice from an old guy.

[Sean124]

Averaging 1.1 up and downs over 11 rounds means your chipping and putting needs a lot of work. 
 

But 4 GIR also means you struggle with ball striking, so focusing on putting is not the answer. You just need to work on everything. 

[jpboi9837]

Great thoughts, thanks all except @Chunkitgood lol...

Everyone I play with thinks my swing and distance would put me at 75-85, but I can't put a round together below 90. I wish it were possible to work on 5-hr mental stamina!

 

Here are stats from my latest 9-hole round:

 

[UKGolfer86]

12 hours ago, jpboi9837 said:

Feeling better about my swing now, but I think 2 putts/hole is only acceptable if you're hitting 18 GIRs? I'm consistently hitting 4 GIRs right now lol.

 

I had 21 putts for 9 holes yesterday, which felt brutal. 46, but easily could have been a sub-40 round with better putting.

 

Trying to get my handicap index down -- am I right to shift majority focus to putting, or should I keep working to dial in my iron play to increase GIR %?

 

 

You say it could easily have been sub 40 with better putting, thats 1 less putt on 7 of the 9 holes.  So what was your putting like?  Did you miss 7 putts inside 3 feet?  3 putt 3-4 times from within 20 feet?  How far from the hole would you say, on average, you are for your first putt when you hit a GIR vs a non-GIR?

 

Obviously if you are only hitting 4GIR over 18 holes on average, ball striking needs improvement.  If you are leaving yourself 20 feet from the hole when you dont hit the green in regulation, then short game needs work, but if you are missing multiple putts inside 3 feet, then yea putting also needs work.

 

When i was an 18 handicap a couple of years back i had to work on everything, but ball striking and getting off the tee consistently in play were the 2 areas that helped drop my handicap quickest. Im no pro at 10.8, but i was in your position, so this may help.

 

Hitting more fairways form the tee takes some pressure off your approach shot.  Less pressure on the approach will lead to more GIR.  More GIR will lead to more pars and maybe some birdies, which will then take some pressure off your short game when you do miss the green.

[UKGolfer86]

5 hours ago, jpboi9837 said:

Great thoughts, thanks all except @Chunkitgood lol...

Everyone I play with thinks my swing and distance would put me at 75-85, but I can't put a round together below 90. I wish it were possible to work on 5-hr mental stamina!

 

Here are stats from my latest 9-hole round:

 

Without wanting to be rude, if your swing and distance were good enough to shoot 75, youd be hitting a lot more than 4 greens per round on average.

[larrybud]

I'm the first to say that total putts is mostly irrelevant, but in the context of 4 GIRS, 2.3 putts per green is rough. It puts it more into focus along with your short game. Let's face it, at a 17.6 index, I can safely say you can improve every aspect of your game. 

 

Quote

I had 21 putts for 9 holes yesterday, which felt brutal. 46, but easily could have been a sub-40 round with better putting.

 

That said, do you honestly think you blew 7 putts throughout the round? How long were they?

You've taken step one to record some metrics, but you need to dig deeper to know WHY those are the results.  Ok, you hit 4/7 FW. What were the other 3 like? Playable? Or reloads and/or punch outs? 4/9 GIRs. Hell, I've shot 75 hitting 5-6 greens in a round, but that doesn't happen very often. So were the 5 missed GIRs the result of the drives, or the result of the iron play?

[i*windows]

I wish I hit 18 GIR and had 2 putts per hole.

[naval2006]

Three putting and chipping is killing your scores. At your handicap level, ball striking is what it is, you won’t improve overnight. But putting would be the first thing I’d work on, almost along with chipping.  You already have a good source to start. 

[North Butte]

1 hour ago, larrybud said:

I'm the first to say that total putts is mostly irrelevant, but in the context of 4 GIRS, 2.3 putts per green is rough. It puts it more into focus along with your short game. Let's face it, at a 17.6 index, I can safely say you can improve every aspect of your game. 

 

 

That said, do you honestly think you blew 7 putts throughout the round? How long were they?

You've taken step one to record some metrics, but you need to dig deeper to know WHY those are the results.  Ok, you hit 4/7 FW. What were the other 3 like? Playable? Or reloads and/or punch outs? 4/9 GIRs. Hell, I've shot 75 hitting 5-6 greens in a round, but that doesn't happen very often. So were the 5 missed GIRs the result of the drives, or the result of the iron play?

I agree and was going to type almost the same comments. 

 

You do need to keep some real shot-by-shot stats to get a good diagnosis but even from what you have, there's a putting problem in addition to the other things costing you strokes. 

 

If you want to start with the easiest to measure thing, note down the length of each putt you have in your next 3-4 rounds. There's an online Strokes Gained: Putting calculator that will let you enter them and narrow down the difference between "blown" putts versus putts you just didn't make because any putt outside of a couple feet is missable. 

Edited July 28, 2023 by North Butte

[phizzy30]

Hitting only 4 GIR is the biggest issue with you.  Obviously focus on getting better with your approach shots with irons.  Keep working on your putting as well, however, you won't see significant improvement in your scores until you can hit more GIR.  I play with and train scratch and plus cap golfers and they all have very good short games, but also hit a lot of GIR.  I don't think FIR is as important if you can minimize your misses by keeping the ball in the rough or first cut where you still have a clear shot to the green and not hitting balls into the trees or OB. 

Edited July 28, 2023 by phizzy30

[North Butte]

1 minute ago, phizzy30 said:

I don't think FIR is as important if you can minimize your misses by keeping the ball in the rough or first cut where you still have a clear shot to the green and not hitting balls into the trees or OB. 

Our rough has gotten pretty brutal the last 4-5 weeks with all the heat and rain we've had. So I was surprised in reviewing my stats from the past couple months that even with full-on summer Bermuda rough it's still the times each round when I drive it into the woods (anywhere from 1 to 3 tee shots per round) that are costing me the most strokes.

 

Even when I hit it in the rough half a dozen times in a round, at least a couple of those I'll catch a good lie and when I don't I can still advance the ball up somewhere within pitching/chipping distance of the green.

 

But if you're punching sideways out of the trees several times a round that's pretty much a full stroke every time. Much worse than a few balls ending up 5-10 yards off the fairway in the rough.

 

And lost/OB tee shots are just complete round killers. If you're averaging one or more of those per round that is your #1 priority for improvement. 

[Hawkeye77]

Too much “woulda coulda” and “if only” OP, which makes you are a golfer, lol. You’re basically an 18 so no, thinking a sub 40 round was within the grasp isn’t realistic. Nothing about fairways or penalties, but not necessary. Immediate gains would be in 150 and in and all that implies and you won’t hit more fairways and greens without improving your ballstriking overall. 
 

Get some quality instruction. I’d say putting is way down the list of priorities or significant remedies. 

Edited July 28, 2023 by Hawkeye77

[Hawkeye77]

11 minutes ago, North Butte said:

Our rough has gotten pretty brutal the last 4-5 weeks with all the heat and rain we've had. So I was surprised in reviewing my stats from the past couple months that even with full-on summer Bermuda rough it's still the times each round when I drive it into the woods (anywhere from 1 to 3 tee shots per round) that are costing me the most strokes.

 

Even when I hit it in the rough half a dozen times in a round, at least a couple of those I'll catch a good lie and when I don't I can still advance the ball up somewhere within pitching/chipping distance of the green.

 

But if you're punching sideways out of the trees several times a round that's pretty much a full stroke every time. Much worse than a few balls ending up 5-10 yards off the fairway in the rough.

 

And lost/OB tee shots are just complete round killers. If you're averaging one or more of those per round that is your #1 priority for improvement. 

Yep, all situational and folks minimizing the impact of missing short grass off the tee might play courses that are exceptions, but in general need to find fairways to play good golf. 

[dfeldss]

You're putting a ton of pressure on your short game only hitting 4 greens.

 

If you're hitting good chips within 5 feet or so, then yeah maybe you need to work on your putting. Otherwise, I'd prioritize ball striking and chipping/pitching first. 

 

If you keep up with your average of about 2 putts per hole, lets say you hit 5 more green per round, that's already 5 shots right there shaved off in theory. 

 

IMO, short game is obviously important because it can save you and turn a bad round into a decent round, decent into good etc., but the ballstriking is where you really unlock your game and see the scores drop.

[DataGolfer]

15 hours ago, Jsteve15 said:

Don't think approaches from 200+ are the biggest area of opportunity. Probably best to watch how a scratch player practices in the short game area.

 

Think what you want, the data disagrees. Better players clobber mid-handicaps from 100-200 yards.

 

It's not the short game, it's the pressure put on the short game by the approach game.

[TLUBulldogGolf]

Coupled with the greens hit number it's certainly not helping but you aren't going to move your score a ton with simply better putting. 

[jpboi9837]

4 hours ago, UKGolfer86 said:

Without wanting to be rude, if your swing and distance were good enough to shoot 75, youd be hitting a lot more than 4 greens per round on average.

fair — but I could actually see the 85 score in reach. But I agree with everyone that 4 GIRs would put too much pressure on the short game to get there

 

[jpboi9837]

2 hours ago, North Butte said:

Our rough has gotten pretty brutal the last 4-5 weeks with all the heat and rain we've had. So I was surprised in reviewing my stats from the past couple months that even with full-on summer Bermuda rough it's still the times each round when I drive it into the woods (anywhere from 1 to 3 tee shots per round) that are costing me the most strokes.

 

Even when I hit it in the rough half a dozen times in a round, at least a couple of those I'll catch a good lie and when I don't I can still advance the ball up somewhere within pitching/chipping distance of the green.

 

But if you're punching sideways out of the trees several times a round that's pretty much a full stroke every time. Much worse than a few balls ending up 5-10 yards off the fairway in the rough.

 

And lost/OB tee shots are just complete round killers. If you're averaging one or more of those per round that is your #1 priority for improvement. 

thankfully, I’m not dealing with the woods/hazards very often anymore

i almost always have a look at the green after my tee shot

 

im missing greens because my dispersion with irons is s***

[jpboi9837]

4 hours ago, UKGolfer86 said:

Without wanting to be rude, if your swing and distance were good enough to shoot 75, youd be hitting a lot more than 4 greens per round on average.

Also, duhhh…that’s obvious and why I’m asking this question 😂

[Ghostwedge]

My fuzzy math tells me your graphic shows you average 7 3-putts per rd ?

If so that is the path of least resistance, you're not going to be hitting 12-13 greens overnight but you can get the up n down pct. and 3 putts down to 2-3 per rd. with some dedicated practice. There is 4-5 strokes easily gone.

[jpboi9837]

3 hours ago, larrybud said:

I'm the first to say that total putts is mostly irrelevant, but in the context of 4 GIRS, 2.3 putts per green is rough. It puts it more into focus along with your short game. Let's face it, at a 17.6 index, I can safely say you can improve every aspect of your game. 

 

 

That said, do you honestly think you blew 7 putts throughout the round? How long were they?

You've taken step one to record some metrics, but you need to dig deeper to know WHY those are the results.  Ok, you hit 4/7 FW. What were the other 3 like? Playable? Or reloads and/or punch outs? 4/9 GIRs. Hell, I've shot 75 hitting 5-6 greens in a round, but that doesn't happen very often. So were the 5 missed GIRs the result of the drives, or the result of the iron play?

appreciate it!

 

my missed fairways are almost always playable — tee shots aren’t the issue (anymore)

 

On any given hole, iron play can be anywhere from sticking it 15 feet to missing the green by 15 yards. It sucks

 

but yeah, maybe I didn’t blow 7 putts, but I did have three 3-putts (for 9 holes) plus 3-4 bad chips that I would take back, if I could.

 

here are putting stats from that round:

Edited July 28, 2023 by jpboi9837

[jpboi9837]

4 minutes ago, Ghostwedge said:

My fuzzy math tells me your graphic shows you average 7 3-putts per rd ?

If so that is the path of least resistance, you're not going to be hitting 12-13 greens overnight but you can get the up n down pct. and 3 putts down to 2-3 per rd. with some dedicated practice. There is 4-5 strokes easily gone.

that was my initial thought!

[Jsteve15]

Didn't realize you were talking about hitting 4 greens in the 9 holes! That makes me completely rethink your round. If you hit 8 greens in a round then you can certainly be a single digit, but over those 9 holes you didn't get up and down once! Unless you're missing a bunch of shorties you're likely asking too much from your putter. 

[Brayden Snow]

I played 9 yesterday and shot a 38 with 21 putts. Hit 6/7 fairways and 9/9 greens. Safe to say I need to work on my putting and not hitting wedge shots to 30 feet.

[Jsteve15]

1 minute ago, Brayden Snow said:

I played 9 yesterday and shot a 38 with 21 putts. Hit 6/7 fairways and 9/9 greens.

Bit of a different skill level than the original poster 😅