Arms trailing fast hips

[zachillusions]

Something that I've been struggling with this season is my overly active hips. I fire the hips quickly from the top resulting in my hands/arms lagging behind quite a bit - when my hips reach P6 my hands are just outside my trail thigh rather than in front of it. This seems to cause my rotation to stop, requiring my hands to take over to get to the ball, resulting in a heavy hook/draw bias with a massively in-to-out swing. I'm an above average player (I think?) that can time this well on good days but completely derails my round on bad days. Its something thats been called out in online lessons this season a few months back by a certain well known instructor here. I was given some drills and feels to help speed the arms up to get more in sync but haven't really made a ton of progress with them. Its like I'm struggling to find a good feel that results in my hands being in front of my right thigh at P6. 

I was wondering if anyone here had any solid drills or feels that could help with it. Something I've done a lot is take the club to the top -> stop -> drop hands to right thigh without turning hips -> turn and strike. But, for some reason that hasn't really bled into my actual game and at this point it seems like I'm more just aimlessly doing a drill because something isn't clicking in my brain that lets me walk away with a feel or intent. Other "feels" I've played around with are getting my left shoulder off my chin (which was hard to wrap my head around given that my shoulder never quite touches my chin anyways), and just dropping the arms at the top without rotating THEN rotating. 

Any feedback is mucho appreciated.

[michaeld_2020]

This is identical to my experience. WHilst I don't have any tangible solutions to what you have asked, I am looking forward to hearing other replies as I find this movement pattern so challenging to break

[Nels55]

Possibly if you get your grip correct you will be able to swing without stalling.  Here is a video along those lines:

 

[kool-aid]

I have struggled with this forever, and the key I've found for me is that I can't just "drop" the arms... I have to actively accelerate them hard and let my body be totally passive. If I do that everything looks great on video and I'm a club longer.

 

I've started doing a half speed drill where I swing back to the top and then hit the ball with arms only, keeping my body turned away from the target. Can't do it at full speed as you'll probably hurt yourself, but it's a great way to get that feeling of the arms just firing hard with the body staying behind in a supporting role.

[Liveonce]

Would try the alignment rod through belt/attachment on trail hip. Arms will definitely get back down in front 

[blades_are_life]

Practice developing the feel of proper sidebend. Also don't think your upper body necessarily needs to catch up to the lower body as much as the lower body needs to slow down to smoother pace for the upper body. There is such a thing as too fast.

[dblinden]

Not sure that finding a "drill" is going to be a successful venture. Being fast is not generally a problem; being out of sequence is always a huge problem. Being fast when you're out of sequence just amplifies the underlying problems more. Using music as an analogy, if you're struggling playing a difficult passage, it's essential to slow way down to learn the correct sequence. Then, at the slow tempo, repeat the passage 10-20 times until there are no errors. Next, increase the tempo one notch and repeat. If there are errors, slow the tempo again. I rarely observe golfers ever making slow swings when working on something new. If they do, it might be once or twice and then full gas. If it can't be done slowly, how can it be done quickly? 

[Tfb003]

I fight the same tendency. I have found that making sure your trail arm reconnects with your sight side before you fire anything is a key. Also, if you are trailing you are likely flipping and striking the ball with a fully extended trail arm. After you reconnect the trail arm to the body, feel like you get down closer so you can hit it with an extending rather than extended trail arm (you would never  throw a punch at full extension). Just some feels that have been improving my compression as of late.

[bladehunter]

9 hours ago, zachillusions said:

Something that I've been struggling with this season is my overly active hips. I fire the hips quickly from the top resulting in my hands/arms lagging behind quite a bit - when my hips reach P6 my hands are just outside my trail thigh rather than in front of it. This seems to cause my rotation to stop, requiring my hands to take over to get to the ball, resulting in a heavy hook/draw bias with a massively in-to-out swing. I'm an above average player (I think?) that can time this well on good days but completely derails my round on bad days. Its something thats been called out in online lessons this season a few months back by a certain well known instructor here. I was given some drills and feels to help speed the arms up to get more in sync but haven't really made a ton of progress with them. Its like I'm struggling to find a good feel that results in my hands being in front of my right thigh at P6. 

I was wondering if anyone here had any solid drills or feels that could help with it. Something I've done a lot is take the club to the top -> stop -> drop hands to right thigh without turning hips -> turn and strike. But, for some reason that hasn't really bled into my actual game and at this point it seems like I'm more just aimlessly doing a drill because something isn't clicking in my brain that lets me walk away with a feel or intent. Other "feels" I've played around with are getting my left shoulder off my chin (which was hard to wrap my head around given that my shoulder never quite touches my chin anyways), and just dropping the arms at the top without rotating THEN rotating. 

Any feedback is mucho appreciated.

Do you also slide ahead ?  This is my miss tendency.  In case you do here’s the thought. 
 

 

your hips aren’t necessarily doing anything wrong. You just get way ahead of the ball coming down.    I use the “ squash the bug “ or step drill.  Which is borrowed from baseball.  It’s just a thought of planting my lead foot and pushing with it. This will stop the slide ahead.  And for me it stops the stuck.  
 

you just practice slow swings with a step/plant with the lead foot.  You post up on it rather than slide out way over it.  
 

again. Assuming you do that.  If you don’t. Disregard 

[AlohaPineapple]

I think I have a similar issue, I've been focusing less on static drills and more dynamic ones, its been helpful in keeping the weight transfers in sync with the upper body.  been a big fan of this channel and particularly the two videos on loading and unloading the spiral:

 

 

[kobe123]

54 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Do you also slide ahead ?  This is my miss tendency.  In case you do here’s the thought. 
 

 

your hips aren’t necessarily doing anything wrong. You just get way ahead of the ball coming down.    I use the “ squash the bug “ or step drill.  Which is borrowed from baseball.  It’s just a thought of planting my lead foot and pushing with it. This will stop the slide ahead.  And for me it stops the stuck.  
 

you just practice slow swings with a step/plant with the lead foot.  You post up on it rather than slide out way over it.  
 

again. Assuming you do that.  If you don’t. Disregard 

 

I would love to see a video of this because I feel I slide forward and immediately stand the handle up.

[fjk]

I think most ams have this issue.

 

everyone is able to rotate or spin their core at elite speed. It really doesn’t have to be that fast and it’s the biggest muscles so feels strong. 
 

problem is most of us can’t match that rotation with hand speed bc it holds the club which is heavy and needs to be oriented. 
 

I think what you need to do is stop worrying about rotation at all. None of the drills you mentioned will help you “at speed” when you’re actually trying to hit the ball, bc you still think speed comes from the core. Which it does, but not if it’s out of sync. 
 

swing focusing on where your chest is pointing. Like iron man’s chest light. Get your arms and hands to sync w that. It will be slow. Ignore your lower body, it’s plenty ingrained. 
 

eventually you’ll get more synced with your arms and upper body and can speed up from there. 

Edited August 8, 2023 by fjk

[bladehunter]

1 hour ago, kobe123 said:

 

I would love to see a video of this because I feel I slide forward and immediately stand the handle up.

Yep. Sounds like the pattern I know.  It’s a fine line.  You don’t want to “ hang back “ either.  
 

disclaimer.  I’m giving advice from my own self/feel. I have no expert knowledge outside of my own trial and error. 

[bladehunter]

1 hour ago, kobe123 said:

 

I would love to see a video of this because I feel I slide forward and immediately stand the handle up.

Here’s Xander showing what I mean.  Feel the lead leg plant and push up. ( that’s my feel). I am flexible. I can slide out so far  over my lead foot it’s crazy. 
 

 

 

just realized this was so popular. Then I searched Lol. I thought I stole it from a baseball coach. Apparently it’s common.   He called it “ squash the bug”. 

Edited August 8, 2023 by bladehunter

[RoyalTroon]

2 hours ago, AlohaPineapple said:

I think I have a similar issue, I've been focusing less on static drills and more dynamic ones, its been helpful in keeping the weight transfers in sync with the upper body.  been a big fan of this channel and particularly the two videos on loading and unloading the spiral:

 

 

 

One of the better videos I've seen lately, touching on two centripetal pieces (he says 2 fulcrums instead) in sound sequencing:  body to hands and hands to clubhead.   Spiral efficiency.  

[Trippels]

Check out Monte's website rebellion golf, he's got several courses. Broomforce in particular adresses this, but he loves to talk about the issue of arms trailing hips in all his material

[phizzy30]

2 hours ago, fjk said:

I think most ams have this issue.

 

everyone is able to rotate or spin their core at elite speed. It really doesn’t have to be that fast and it’s the biggest muscles so feels strong. 
 

problem is most of us can’t match that rotation with hand speed bc it holds the club which is heavy and needs to be oriented. 
 

I think what you need to do is stop worrying about rotation at all. None of the drills you mentioned will help you “at speed” when you’re actually trying to hit the ball, bc you still think speed comes from the core. Which it does, but not if it’s out of sync. 
 

swing focusing on where your chest is pointing. Like iron man’s chest light. Get your arms and hands to sync w that. It will be slow. Ignore your lower body, it’s plenty ingrained. 
 

eventually you’ll get more synced with your arms and upper body and can speed up from there. 

Actually most ams have the opposite problem where they don't shift and rotate their hips enough hence they end up doing the cast move from the top.  And no, not everyone is able to rotate their core at elite speed.  Most ams have trouble doing so because they're not flexible enough and/or they don't do the necessary work in the gym to get there. 

[phizzy30]

1 hour ago, bladehunter said:

Yep. Sounds like the pattern I know.  It’s a fine line.  You don’t want to “ hang back “ either.  
 

disclaimer.  I’m giving advice from my own self/feel. I have no expert knowledge outside of my own trial and error. 

I think hanging back a touch is ok with driver.  Willy Z is a great example.  Too much hang back can cause the hands to take over and shut the face though so it's a double edge sword.  However, hanging back is a no no when it comes to irons. 

[Pepperturbo]

Thanks, @Nels55 for the first video.  Interesting tips, worth trying this weekend.  

[MPStrat]

3 hours ago, fjk said:

I think most ams have this issue. 

False.

Some ams have this issue and that number has been greatly exaggerated/misinterpreted.

 

The actual issue of firing the pelvis from the top of the swing vs the look on a 2d still frame of the hands being too far behind the trail leg at p6 are often not the same thing.

 

You could look at that 2d still and assume the player has always “fired the body” ahead of the arms but that’s not the case. More often that look is created in the backswing and carried into the downswing. Once it happens in the backswing, the attempt to correct it creates all of the things we don’t like: Arms flying outward, OTT, casting, etc. 

[bladehunter]

55 minutes ago, phizzy30 said:

I think hanging back a touch is ok with driver.  Willy Z is a great example.  Too much hang back can cause the hands to take over and shut the face though so it's a double edge sword.  However, hanging back is a no no when it comes to irons. 

Sure.  But the only time it comes up is with driver. Hard swings.  I just don’t swing that hard with an iron.  Rare occasions being when a fade from deep rough that you need to hit past the hole and stop or bring  back. Then you can go at it hard and make as much spin as you can. But that’s rare. 
 

with driver it’s an unplayable move most times. You just can’t play a driver making the kind of spin that stuck , hooded , steep aoa condition will make. 
 

hanging back much with driver isn’t good either.  It’s just going to be a high two way miss … ask me how I know.  Sequencing a driver for max performance  is the hardest shot in golf in my opinion.  Max being the potential your max swing speed plus a center strike ( max ballspeed ) plus a usable path/face to path delivery can obtain .  😂.  You know. The simple stuff. 

[bladehunter]

27 minutes ago, MPStrat said:

False.

Some ams have this issue and that number has been greatly exaggerated/misinterpreted.

 

The actual issue of firing the pelvis from the top of the swing vs the look on a 2d still frame of the hands being too far behind the trail leg at p6 are often not the same thing.

 

You could look at that 2d still and assume the player has always “fired the body” ahead of the arms but that’s not the case. More often that look is created in the backswing and carried into the downswing. Once it happens in the backswing, the attempt to correct it creates all of the things we don’t like: Arms flying outward, OTT, casting, etc. 

also true .  Which is why I start the swing with the feeling of my hips/pelvis or belt buckle  going first.  If it goes the rest has a chance.  
 

 

[Tengu]

Oldie but goldie:

Also goes to show even the greatest need hundreds of of balls to make change happen.

[Kuuuch]

I personally think the easiest way to fix this is swinging with a smaller dodgeball or soccerball that's placed above the elbows. Smartball at elbows or forearms works too but i like a dodgeball better. The issue I think a lot of people have when trying to speed up the arms/get them in front is they wind up getting narrow and if you're narrow on the backswing it can be easy to get the trail elbow trapped. 

 

If you're not a fan of that you can always do the split grip drill - lots of videos out there of rory doing it and rehearsing the arms in front on the DS

[zachillusions]

20 hours ago, kool-aid said:

I have struggled with this forever, and the key I've found for me is that I can't just "drop" the arms... I have to actively accelerate them hard and let my body be totally passive. If I do that everything looks great on video and I'm a club longer.

 

I've started doing a half speed drill where I swing back to the top and then hit the ball with arms only, keeping my body turned away from the target. Can't do it at full speed as you'll probably hurt yourself, but it's a great way to get that feeling of the arms just firing hard with the body staying behind in a supporting role.

Yeah I've thought about just trying to get a sensation of nothing moving but arms and this sounds like a pretty solid drill to get that.

[zachillusions]

15 hours ago, Liveonce said:

Would try the alignment rod through belt/attachment on trail hip. Arms will definitely get back down in front 

I've tried this and had some of the most success with this but seem to leak a lot of speed and distance. Likely just something I need to stick with tbh

[zachillusions]

13 hours ago, AlohaPineapple said:

I think I have a similar issue, I've been focusing less on static drills and more dynamic ones, its been helpful in keeping the weight transfers in sync with the upper body.  been a big fan of this channel and particularly the two videos on loading and unloading the spiral:

 

 

Gonna have to give their other videos a look because this was pretty insightful, even if some of it doesn't directly help.

[zachillusions]

8 hours ago, bladehunter said:

Sure.  But the only time it comes up is with driver. Hard swings.  I just don’t swing that hard with an iron.  Rare occasions being when a fade from deep rough that you need to hit past the hole and stop or bring  back. Then you can go at it hard and make as much spin as you can. But that’s rare. 
 

with driver it’s an unplayable move most times. You just can’t play a driver making the kind of spin that stuck , hooded , steep aoa condition will make. 
 

hanging back much with driver isn’t good either.  It’s just going to be a high two way miss … ask me how I know.  Sequencing a driver for max performance  is the hardest shot in golf in my opinion.  Max being the potential your max swing speed plus a center strike ( max ballspeed ) plus a usable path/face to path delivery can obtain .  😂.  You know. The simple stuff. 

 

I can absolutely attest to what you are saying. Stuck, hang back, out of sequence, etc can ruin your driver. At the beginning of the season I was insanely consistent... at hitting low heel on my driver. I'm good enough to get out of that funk, but man, sometimes if I really want to go after one I'll get that low heel shot that just snaps left. Probably my least favorite shot in golf. 

[zachillusions]

7 hours ago, Kuuuch said:

I personally think the easiest way to fix this is swinging with a smaller dodgeball or soccerball that's placed above the elbows. Smartball at elbows or forearms works too but i like a dodgeball better. The issue I think a lot of people have when trying to speed up the arms/get them in front is they wind up getting narrow and if you're narrow on the backswing it can be easy to get the trail elbow trapped. 

 

If you're not a fan of that you can always do the split grip drill - lots of videos out there of rory doing it and rehearsing the arms in front on the DS

Yeah this is a solid idea. I've got an amazon knock-off smartball thats collecting dust that I should put to more use.

[zachillusions]

11 hours ago, Trippels said:

Check out Monte's website rebellion golf, he's got several courses. Broomforce in particular adresses this, but he loves to talk about the issue of arms trailing hips in all his material

So about that.... guess who I got that lesson from! And before anyone thinks I'm dissing Monte, I'm not. The lesson was great - informative and helpful, its just _me_ that seems to be struggling to make progress on what was identified. Realistically I just need to stick with it but I just thought I'd poke the golfwrx beast to see if anyone else had some successful tips on improving arm sequencing